Do you what is stupidity? Getting 66 points at the rate of 1.73 PPG is considered as a huge achievement. Guaranteeing someone a job until end of the year just because we are third after 13 matches .
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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We finished 3rd. That's all that matters. The targets for any season are based on position and not points exactly because it takes into account the level of competition, and other variables (like COVID break and so on)
Its not close to half of season though as we still have another 6 games to play before half season remark . I have a bee because we have been through this false dawns multiple times in the past. We always have the knee kerks popping up stating, I told you Ole is the man to take it forward after 5 wins and then disappear for shit when we lose 3 after that.
So excuse me if I'm not hatching my eggs yet but rather wait until Jan/ Feb to even make an opinion about it.
So you are basing possession on who is more attacking. Then according to your own stats we had 59% possession against RBL, so does that make Ole more attacking than Julian Naggelsman. Ole being a defence coach is a big myth. If he was actually defensive coach , he would have known how to set us up defensively. We needed 1 point of 6 against PSG and RBL and yet we were more open and looking to attack. A defence first coach wouldn't do that. Have you seen us defending, even yesterday Leeds could have scored 5 goals and we could have scored about 12. We are always open.
Ole for me is not a perfect coach but he is far from defensive. I repeat a defensive coach would know how to set up his team defensively. Conte knows, Jose knows. Even his Molde sides were known to attack and even his cardiff side was accused of being too adventurous instead of being pragmatic and cautious, even Ole admitted later on that he should have been a bit more defensive. So this whole thing that he is a defence first coach doesn't add much.
Sacking him out of the blue when he's doing well would be horrible and I don't want to be the kind of club that does that. But in the back of my mind I can't help think that a better manager could win the league this year, its so wildly open, and it might be a while before we get a season as open as this again.
Kneejerk posts like that are more your department.
The fact that there are even question marks around Solksjaer's job is a damning indictment of the culture around managers in football. He has steadily improved the squad without spending obscene money, the PL form over the last 12 months is exceptional and he's been competitive in Europe during that period. Obviously there remains massive room for improvement but things are moving in the right direction and clearly have been for a while.
I don't think there's any getting away from the fact it was 2 games into the new season. And that's what Ole will be judged on, this season.
The grass does look extremely green at the moment. This is definitely the most fun watching us since SAF.
The only caveat I have is that what we are seeing now should be totally expected from a club of this size that has spent the money it has in recent years. The place the team is at now is what we need to see consistently. Would a more experienced elite level manager/coach have got to these sort of places sooner? Quite possibly. But it's by the by now if this form can be maintained on some sort of consistent level. There's nothing that quite gives you as much hope with this team as watching McT driving the ball into the bottom right corner for his first and scoring a second that looks like he was playing a 5-a-side. When it all clicks we look fiercely competitive. Now just need to sort out breaking down teams that play a low block.
I'm looking forward to games again and yeah tbh sacking Ole (at the moment) is unthinkable.
The only caveat I have is that what we are seeing now should be totally expected from a club of this size that has spent the money it has in recent years. The place the team is at now is what we need to see consistently. Would a more experienced elite level manager/coach have got to these sort of places sooner? Quite possibly. But it's by the by now if this form can be maintained on some sort of consistent level. There's nothing that quite gives you as much hope with this team as watching McT driving the ball into the bottom right corner for his first and scoring a second that looks like he was playing a 5-a-side. When it all clicks we look fiercely competitive. Now just need to sort out breaking down teams that play a low block.
I'm looking forward to games again and yeah tbh sacking Ole (at the moment) is unthinkable.
What is all this false dawn talk anyway?
We had a new manager bounce and then they all seemed a bit nackered and the season ended poorly.
In the Summer, we shipped out a lot of players and got hit with injuries to key players and were still reliant on the likes of Pereira/Lingard.
As our players came back and Fred/McT found their feet we started to play better and then Bruno came in which powered our surge up the table. We were disappointing in the cup against Chelsea but we really should have beaten Sevilla.
Did anyone really think we were world-beaters at that stage?
Following that we had no pre-season to speak off and lacked match sharpness and fitness and had a poor start to this season. However, despite the disappointment of going out of CL and being on the back of a couple of early pastings we have put a good run together and are integrating our new signings into the team.
We are in a much better position than we were last season or the season before after the same number of games. I can't see a genuine title-challenge this year unless we improve significantly in defence but we are closer than we've been in quite some time. More work and squad additions are needed.
Where was this false-dawn?
Common sense- not an easy thing to get. So I will take a pause and let you read the posts again.
Thanks mate. People just miss that core point. He has been here 2 years and we just can't use the logic of "needs time " and rebuild excuse. Let him prove we have the mettle this time and show us points on the board. If yes , I will be the first one to change the vote in this thread.
This 3rd place knee-jerk posts are truly embarrassing.
Why shouldn't we expect similar performances? What Ole did was play with risk in the game with the back line pushed up and the fullbacks marauding forward and even the midfielders bursting into the opposition box. Against the so called lesser teams we should adopt the same high risk approach IMO.
The only manager I ever had trust in was Fergie. And he earned that trust over many years. What I have with Solskjaer is hope.
Why is this relevant to our discussion? I know you are trying to stretch it out away from the original discussion but it's debatable and irrelevant. Remember the original discussion below, stick with that:
Again it's irrelevant. It doesn't support the original discussion. What I watch was a beautiful game both teams going to attack each other. It wasn't just one side sit deep and defend while the other one is attacking. You don't agree, then I don't give a feck because it's irrelevant to our original discussion.
I didn't ditch them, you don't read.When Conte lost Mourinho defensive midfielder and top scorer Matic & Costa as well as he had ageing Cahill, he finished from title winner to outside top 4. That should tell you enough what happened when the quality of the squad is reduced. This is the same case what happened to Ole last season, he lost Valencia, Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrera, Smalling, Fellaini the 17/18 squad because some were past it (ageing) and some forced themselves to leave despite manager wanted them to stay.
It's just an excuse to undermine any results we get and continue with the negativity. It's funny watching people clutching at straws trying to find something to criticise.
For the life of me I cant understand how after a 6-2 thumping, sitting in 3rd, potential 2nd in the league- and the season isnt even halfway, that this is even a debate.
As opposed to the pages and pages added to this thread at half-time in games when we're behind or after a loss?
Still gutted about the CL exit and felt that was terrible bit of management from Ole that lead to that, but while we're keeping pace with the leaders he's doing a better job than I could have hoped for. I'll be Ole in until the wheels come off.
Funnily enough, your posts aren't very difficult to understand. You just seem to be making up arguments because I called out one of your typical idiotic kneejerk posts.
Toodles
Nope , like the woo-hoo and we are 3rd threads. It goes both ways mate. We ain't winning that argument
Please read the post again and come back for an argument rather than carpet bombing.
It's high time Ole ins stop convincing Ole outs to change their opinion and vice versa also. It's getting boring now. Let us see how season pans out before we start convincing people.
Both as mind numbingly tedious as the other, I'm afraid to say. This thread has turned into nothing more than a farce. Both 'sides' writing rampant essays with zero content or sustance and are just repeating themselves ad nauseam at this point. Then you have two separate threads made celebrating third place in December
I am hugely Ole out but maybe he just needs a bit more courage. Otherwise he is a PE teacher.
He set us up extremely negatively vs both Leipzig and City.
He is singlehandedly responsible for us dropping from the CL.
Istanbul game was such a must win, how did he manage to screw that up, not even get a point.
Then vs Paris he failed to take Fred out of the game which also hurt us in the Leipzig game where he decided to go for an extremely defensive and negative approach.
So in a lot of ways you do see his limitations and we suck vs top 6 teams cuz he is petrified in those games and plays the most negative way possible. If only he had a bit more courage in those games.
But then again we are doing well in the PL now.
Some games are satisfying and we look good. The next step is imposing our play on everyone else, not play with 10 DM's as soon as we play against a better team so really its all about figuring out the midfield.
If only Ole would dare to play VDB as a CM when he doesnt have Fred or McT available it would a long way. But we also still have Pogba. You dont need to play Matic FFS.
So yeah CL sucks. Its 100 % Ole's fault.
But even though I think he is a PE teacher we do look good now. If it aint broke, dont fix it I guess.
Can Ole do it consistently, I have huge doubts and CL proved it, just out of his depth. But regardless of what I think, if it aint broke dont fix it, like I said. He deserves a bit of backing now.
He set us up extremely negatively vs both Leipzig and City.
He is singlehandedly responsible for us dropping from the CL.
Istanbul game was such a must win, how did he manage to screw that up, not even get a point.
Then vs Paris he failed to take Fred out of the game which also hurt us in the Leipzig game where he decided to go for an extremely defensive and negative approach.
So in a lot of ways you do see his limitations and we suck vs top 6 teams cuz he is petrified in those games and plays the most negative way possible. If only he had a bit more courage in those games.
But then again we are doing well in the PL now.
Some games are satisfying and we look good. The next step is imposing our play on everyone else, not play with 10 DM's as soon as we play against a better team so really its all about figuring out the midfield.
If only Ole would dare to play VDB as a CM when he doesnt have Fred or McT available it would a long way. But we also still have Pogba. You dont need to play Matic FFS.
So yeah CL sucks. Its 100 % Ole's fault.
But even though I think he is a PE teacher we do look good now. If it aint broke, dont fix it I guess.
Can Ole do it consistently, I have huge doubts and CL proved it, just out of his depth. But regardless of what I think, if it aint broke dont fix it, like I said. He deserves a bit of backing now.
Ah for god's sake if you're talking about your man then yes it is embarrassingNope , like the woo-hoo and we are 3rd threads. It goes both ways mate. We ain't winning that argument
I agree with you
but even if Ole does well this season it will only take two bad results next season for the debate to flare up again
6 games is less than half of the 13 we've played. Like it or not, it's a sizeable enough portion of the season to make such a claim. It's a damn sight closer than 2 games in to a season where there are legitimate mitigating circumstances as to why we started poorly, and where we more than hit our targets in the league the previous season.
Also, it's a bit of a strawman to say that we're all saying we told you so - the weirdos like Sammsky, yes, but the vast majority are saying he's doing a good enough job in the circumstances and he should see out the rest of the season, and if he gets top 4 he should start next season too.
We have been much more consistent since Bruno came in, to the extent that we've accrued more points than anyone in the league. Even if we disregard that and go to when Ole started in his role, we've been the third best team in the country. He has been doing a good job, all things considered. Not perfect, maybe not even great, but a good job and the progression curve has only been generally trending upwards since Bruno came in. We've had knockbacks and disappointments along the way and Ole and the team deserved the criticism they got for fecking up the CL group, but it's a testament to them that they recovered from the disappointments and got themselves well set in the league.
We do have a real shot at winning the league this year and we must go for it 100 %.
Not sure what that means for the january transfer window. I do think Diallo will be great for us, means we might keep Pogba until the summer and if we look at any reinforcements it might be on defence. Then again even that we might somewhat improve internally. We do have Menghi and Tuanzebe.
Again, we do have a real shot at winning the league this year. We must go for it.
Meaning all games we play vs top 6 we should look to win. Exceptions perhaps being Liverpool and City away where a point will suffice.
Not sure what that means for the january transfer window. I do think Diallo will be great for us, means we might keep Pogba until the summer and if we look at any reinforcements it might be on defence. Then again even that we might somewhat improve internally. We do have Menghi and Tuanzebe.
Again, we do have a real shot at winning the league this year. We must go for it.
Meaning all games we play vs top 6 we should look to win. Exceptions perhaps being Liverpool and City away where a point will suffice.
My only problem with Ole Out brigade is not the sole purpose of getting rid of Ole himself, but what proceeds after that and in that regard Ole Out brigade is the most divided stock of opinions about pletora of newcoming managers out there. Everything based on make believe argument that new manager will just enter the club like Manchester United, adapt easily to biggest expectations and work in perfect synergy with Woodward who already booted much more experienced ones like LvG and Mourinho.
Getting rid of Ole is easy, appointing new manager equals restarting some stage of the rebuild and convincing Glazers to invest in new guy in charge so he can have players for prefered system. New manager assessing players that's another months, sometimes even whole year of experimenting and waiting for something positive to be born from that, so far without one guarantee whatsoever.
Getting rid of Ole is easy, appointing new manager equals restarting some stage of the rebuild and convincing Glazers to invest in new guy in charge so he can have players for prefered system. New manager assessing players that's another months, sometimes even whole year of experimenting and waiting for something positive to be born from that, so far without one guarantee whatsoever.
Well yes that's why I wanted the thread closed.
Failing that I'm putting it back on ignore til we hit 25 games.
Laters.
You are jumping in a bit late, if you'd read my previous posts to the other poster, I am not saying that and have even specified it because they went off on a tangent. In this instance, possession is actually a good indicator because if we take Leeds as the subject and the fact we know exactly how they play, which you can't say for most teams, you can see how much possession each team has against a team we know loves to dominate the ball. Again, that alone doesn't make one or the other more attacking but it's a great way of looking at how much each manager instructed their team to try and keep the ball versus ceding possession. The fact Ole is below the rest is no surprise there and it clearly worked a treat because, for me, that is exactly how you should play against Bielsa.
It was, what @Zen86 said was right. You wanted him to be sacked just based on 2 league games this season. If it was based on 2 years, you should have post that in august when last season ended not September when the new season just started.
If we follow your logic about the false dawn then you shouldn’t jumping into conclusion by asking for the manager to be sacked based on early season, because teams had slow start at the beginning is also common and the manager can turn it around.
And what makes you think that I haven't.
Another knee-jeerker who has absolutely no idea of the discussion that's happening and thinks you have contributed enough by posting a passive comment. But Hey, thanks though for contributing a lot to this thread.
You want him fired after 26 points in 13 matches - seriously ?
That’s ridiculous. So you just admitted that you posted a post for the manager to be sacked after getting top 4 last season. Seriously?
Your argument is Conte inherited a title winning squad & I'm saying it works both ways because Ole technically inherited a team that finished 2nd. We have established it was exactly the same team that finished second (despite way too much back and forth) because it is a fact that all the players were still here, bar Fellaini. You have written, correctly, Fellaini was over the hill anyway so he is inconsequential, Sanchez was here, Smalling was here, Valencia Ole chose not to extend his contract and we have covered the others.Why is this relevant to our discussion? I know you are trying to stretch it out away from the original discussion but it's debatable and irrelevant. Remember the original discussion below, stick with that:
Again it's irrelevant. It doesn't support the original discussion. What I watch was a beautiful game both teams going to attack each other. It wasn't just one side sit deep and defend while the other one is attacking. You don't agree, then I don't give a feck because it's irrelevant to our original discussion.
When Conte lost Mourinho defensive midfielder and top scorer Matic & Costa as well as he had ageing Cahill, he finished from title winner to outside top 4. That should tell you enough what happened when the quality of the squad is reduced. This is the same case what happened to Ole last season, he lost Valencia, Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrera, Smalling, Fellaini the 17/18 squad because some were past it (ageing) and some forced themselves to leave despite manager wanted them to stay.
I don't see how you're still fighting this, the above are literally facts. Therefore, unless you are of the opinion that Herrera (who chose to run down his contract) was so pivotal a player he is the only difference in the two scenarios.
I feel like you just take offence at anything that could be construed as criticism of Ole when it's not, I just think Conte's achievements were phenomenal - especially when you factor in they had finished so low in the league the season before and the big change for them was learning a tactical setup that would have been completely new for most of the players and is now seen across most PL teams.
I'm glad you've now accepted the other points I made, it took a hell of a long time but we're nearly there now. Would be interesting if you did consider Herrera THAT important or if you accept it was a very similar situation when viewed through the high-level lens you insisted on (i.e discounting tactics and just focused on players who are at the club).
He has wanted Ole sacked for a lot longer than that. We could win the league, he would still want him sacked. There are some of those
I really wouldn’t bother. He’s one of those special people that aren’t worth the effort.
What's ridiculous? Thinking 1.76 ppg for one season is not enough for a club like Man united?
Can't believe I am having this with you again. Go and check discussions we had on the same topic last season r. I am not biting it again.
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