Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Ok, here goes.

Do I think that, with the newly added timeframe, Ole inherited less original players (ignoring the quality of those players) then Conte inherited at Chelsea? Yes. That is factual albeit

I asked simple yes or no question and you still couldn't answer it. So let me repeat the question again, were Valencia, Fellaini, Herrera, Smalling, Sanchez, Lukaku here last season?

Do you accept you were wrong with regards to the original timeline (that took you about 8 post to add in) of Ole inheriting them ?

What original timeline? You can't be serious comparing a manager who took in charged mid season as caretaker to manager who had full season, if that's the case that would be the most stupid argument & comparison I have ever read.

The very first post that you replied I have been talking about 19/20 season and you compared it to Conte, remember this (the quote below):

You don’t be 6th and jump to league title right away. You make progress every season. First full season expectation is to make it top 4, second full season is to close the gaps between United and Liverpool, third full season is to challenge the league and finally winning it. We want high standard because this is big club but it’s unrealistic to fix 6 years problem within 1-2 years.

Do you accept I was correct that Conte and Ole are more similar stylistically to Conte and Jose?

First of all, why is it relevant to our original discussion? (been asking this for 3x already and I didn't get the answer from you).

Second, No and it's debatable like what you said, remember this is you:

Debateable how different his style is.

This is what I was trying to explain to the other poster but, for some reason, the idea of Ole being in any way pragmatic seemed to deeply offend him. I see him as defense first for the reasons you say, we are a reactive team and that's no bad thing when we are definitely at our best in transition and on the counter but rarely will we set out to dominate possession in attacking areas and impose ourselves on another team, unless it's one of the bottom teams in the league where the quality difference is so high.

I remember a quote from Ben Davies (I think) in the Spurs doc and he said the biggest difference with Jose coming in compared to Poch was there was so much more detail on opposition, how to stop certain players and how to setup up game to game. Ole is not that extreme but his setup is actually very similar when you look at players positions when out of possession.

It's all about finding a balance in the PL, Guardiola has definitely become less of a purist, Klopp went from winning nothing to winning everything after signing a specialist DM & GK, Chelsea won the league with Conte, Leicester with Ranieri, it's clear you can't go full Keegan and expect to win trophies.

@The Boy was spot on there. The way how you explained it was too simplistic to describe him as a defense manager. He was also correct about Ole that Ole is type reactive or I called it flexible manager. Summary stats what you provided doesn't conclude of Ole's style at all because he's changing his set up almost every games to suit the opposition team. Conte & Jose had their own style and set up and they stick with it unlike Ole. You wouldn't expect such open game like last Sunday from Jose against Leeds. Ole is less complex, give freedom to his players more for fluidity and always set up differently almost every games.

 

[90 + 5min]

You don’t be 6th and jump to league title right away. You make progress every season. First full season expectation is to make it top 4, second full season is to close the gaps between United and Liverpool, third full season is to challenge the league and finally winning it. We want high standard because this is big club but it’s unrealistic to fix 6 years problem within 1-2 years.

You can't be serious comparing a manager who took in charged mid season as caretaker to manager who had full season, if that's the case that would be the most stupid argument & comparison I have ever read.

This must be wierdest thing I have read. Why are you discussion with yourself and telling yourself how wrong you are? You are replaying to your own post!

Did you do something wrong here?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

This must be wierdest thing I have read. Why are you discussion with yourself and telling yourself how wrong you are? You are replaying to your own post!

Did you do something wrong here?

No I didn't reply to my own post. I just showed him my original quote to remind the poster what the original discussion was.

 

[90 + 5min]

No I didn't reply to my own post. I just showed him my original quote to remind the poster what the original discussion was.

No problem if that is the case.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No problem if that is the case.

I just re-edit the post there to made it less confusing for him as well.

 

[Doracle]

On the contrary, I have no time for people who bloat after every 3-5 matches and come here and say "I told you" so. I don't care where we are now because we are only 13 matches into the season. We aren't even at the middle of the season and yet, we have people stating he is the man to take us forward. While they may be finally right (yes, finally after 2 years) we still haven't reach to a point where we can say that.

Now, my analysis of his criticism is purely based on facts and points on-board. Unlike you, I'm not pulling things out of thin air (like saying we are going to win the title or we are going to finish third). My analysis is based on his performance from last 2 years.

So yes, shame me when you get your facts right, when you see the points on-board, when you see the so called improvement on the ground. Until then, you can keep bloating around things that hasn't happened yet but spare me from that.

This analysis seems backwards to me. The knee jerk reactions are invariably from the Ole out camp. It’s summed up by the post which was flagged above demanding that Ole be sacked immediately after 2 games of the season - we’d lost one of the previous 16 league matches across the two seasons at that stage and anyone should have been able to see a slow start was likely with the short pre-season.

Our realistic expectations for this season should be to push on and get somewhere around 75 points this season and hopefully be solidly in the top 4. We are currently on track for that, despite it being generally acknowledged that the Summer transfer window could have gone better and with 2 of our forwards so far off their form of last season.

Clearly, it’s perfectly reasonable currently to feel that Ole is in a good position to be manager for the rest of the season. Of course, if we have an Arteta type run then everything could change but, given our form since February, we currently do look to be in a good place. Those who are in the Ole out immediately camp currently don’t have any real substance to fall back on.

 

[lysglimt]

On the contrary, I have no time for people who bloat after every 3-5 matches and come here and say "I told you" so. I don't care where we are now because we are only 13 matches into the season. We aren't even at the middle of the season and yet, we have people stating he is the man to take us forward. While they may be finally right (yes, finally after 2 years) we still haven't reach to a point where we can say that.

Now, my analysis of his criticism is purely based on facts and points on-board. Unlike you, I'm not pulling things out of thin air (like saying we are going to win the title or we are going to finish third). My analysis is based on his performance from last 2 years.

So yes, shame me when you get your facts right, when you see the points on-board, when you see the so called improvement on the ground. Until then, you can keep bloating around things that hasn't happened yet but spare me from that.

You really dont get it do you ? It's not about who is right or wrong - it's about you deciding that you are right despite evidence to the contrary, and refusing to even comtemplate that you might have been wrong. You sound like Craig F Burley.

It's not about shaming you - it's about you opening your eyes instead of being so hellbent on being right. Try to enjoy the fact that we are winning football games instead

 

[Taktik T-Rex]

I love reading the comments from the Ole out brigade right now. You can tell they are seething that we are 3rd in table with a game in hand to go 2nd.

It seems Ole loyalists have an annual trophy parade every time Ole adds 26 points on the League table. Pity it ends badly for them as history shows Ole can't go beyond the 66 points and his teams usually finish wherever the Table finds a suitable place for those "66 points". Twice that has been the case, and history has an uncanny habit of repeating itself. That's the furthest we are allowed to go because digging up a bit further into Ole's stint with the Premier league is considered blasphemy inside the Ole fanclub.

You're not real supporters. You're all more bothered about being proven right than supporting the team and manager. 6 wins and a draw in our last 7 PL games proves Ole has got something about him but you still won't give him credit. Embarrassed to support same club as some of you lot.

Ole loyalists have religiously devoured 136 Molde games and 30 odd Cardiff City games no less than 200 times each but will tell you there is "some thing about Ole" based solely and exclusively on the most recent 500 minutes of football** . It's not as if they suddenly discovered "this thing about Ole" the moment Woodward installed him as a manager. The "fake" supporters of the club know that this is just a passing cloud and pray that Ole loyalists don't leave Ole orphaned when he "jumps the ship" to more promising projects that he found in the Norwegian league. That'd be very embarrassing.

**- Conditions Apply.

 

[bond19821982]

You really dont get it do you ? It's not about who is right or wrong - it's about you deciding that you are right despite evidence to the contrary, and refusing to even comtemplate that you might have been wrong. You sound like Craig F Burley.

It's not about shaming you - it's about you opening your eyes instead of being so hellbent on being right. Try to enjoy the fact that we are winning football games instead

My analysis is based on 2 year performance of our manager.

What exactly is yours based on ?

We could win the league, he would still want him sacked. There are some of those

Should I care to explain whose post is this ? What exactly is this based on ?
This is why I said, you are pulling things out of thin air as you wish.

 

[bond19821982]

This analysis seems backwards to me. The knee jerk reactions are invariably from the Ole out camp. It’s summed up by the post which was flagged above demanding that Ole be sacked immediately after 2 games of the season - we’d lost one of the previous 16 league matches across the two seasons at that stage and anyone should have been able to see a slow start was likely with the short pre-season.

Our realistic expectations for this season should be to push on and get somewhere around 75 points this season and hopefully be solidly in the top 4. We are currently on track for that, despite it being generally acknowledged that the Summer transfer window could have gone better and with 2 of our forwards so far off their form of last season.

Clearly, it’s perfectly reasonable currently to feel that Ole is in a good position to be manager for the rest of the season. Of course, if we have an Arteta type run then everything could change but, given our form since February, we currently do look to be in a good place. Those who are in the Ole out immediately camp currently don’t have any real substance to fall back on.

Mate - If you want to have a sane convo, please understand the full context and quote me. My analysis has always based on 2 years of his performance and not 2 matches.

Just don't be that "I support you" guy who comes in between a discussions.

 

[wolvored]

We are getting the results and with an excellent DM we could swap to 4-1-4-1 so we would be able to get more attacking players on the pitch to turn the stupid results we have had into wins while having the anchor at the back to protect the defence

 

[FatherWolff]

Ole will get the season now that he's close to title contention but I just want to dispute the overall point on principle, no one earns an entire season at a big club on the basis of past season's results. You can earn the benefit of the doubt for a bad run of form or a month but not earn/deserve an entire season for what happend the previous year.

Same goes for players, Martial had a great last season but no one should say he deserves to see out this season as a starter based on that. For managers Lampard finished 4th with no transfers but Chelsea should jettison him once they get over the fact he's not a Chelsea level manager. Nice feat to finish 4th but he hasn't earned squat. Same as Di Matteo after winning them the CL or Ranieri after winning Leicester the title. Big accomplishments only guarantee you the next month in management and while we're definitely more patient with our managers than other clubs that trait isn't necessarily always for the best in every scenario

You are absolutely right. Like I said, if it goes tits up, he will be gone, and rightly so. But that is not what I addressed. It is the complete hypocrisy of giving your support, but when lack of pre season and a few games with bad results we are back to scratch. It smells of personal agenda and shit support! The same posters will go completely overboard if we loose on Saturday, and completely neglect we are still in a very good position. When we are not in a good position - I will ask questions myself.

But imagine thinking it’s in the clubs best interest spreading insecurity and negativity at this moment in time!? Feck me, most clubs could do well without such support!

 

[lysglimt]

My analysis is based on 2 year performance of our manager.

What exactly is yours based on ?

Oh I dont know

28 wins - 8 draws and 8 defeats since february 1st

Goal difference 100-46

That is a win ratio of 63%
2.27 goals scored pr game

 

[Lentwood]

Actually, this can be calculated using confidence intervals of counts:
Ferguson:
You observed 2769 objects in a certain volume or 2769 events in a certain time period.
Approximate (Pearson) Poission confidence interval:
The 90% confidence interval extends from 2683.79 to 2856.92
The 95% confidence interval extends from 2667.77 to 2874.07
The 99% confidence interval extends from 2636.73 to 2907.90

Thus, the "true", generalizable goal count would be between 1.77 and 1.96 for Ferguson, assuming 95% confidence intervals.

Solskjær:
You observed 208 objects in a certain volume or 208 events in a certain time period.
Exact Poisson confidence interval:
The 90% confidence interval extends from 184.87 to 233.34
The 95% confidence interval extends from 180.69 to 238.26
The 99% confidence interval extends from 172.73 to 248.11

=1.62 to 2.14 with 95% confidence intevals for OGS.

It is also possible to calculate the confidence intervals of the count-differences, but I don't think that is necessary here. The main conclusion is that you are right: We don't know whether these goal-counts reflect a "true" difference between these managers. It could be down to chance and the true long-term score for OGS could prove to be lower.

These numbers are also not really valid given that circumstances to a large degree would differ in different time-periods. It would perhaps be better to compare goal counts under OGS vs Ferguson relative to total goal counts for all teams within the league at the relevant time-periods.

CD.

You’re not going to be popular on this forum if you insist on making sensible points supported by Data

General order of the day is to demand Ole is sacked every time we drop points and start a “can we win the title thread” after every win

 

[bond19821982]

Oh I dont know

28 wins - 8 draws and 8 defeats since february 1st

Goal difference 100-46

That is a win ratio of 63%
2.27 goals scored pr game

This is exactly the problem . Irrelevant stats like "since Bruno joined ", "Ole as a care taker manager" etc . No one cares about such things and it doesn't get us what we want.

You know what's relevant? Our points end of the season which was 65 points last season ( a zero increase from 65 points of previous year despite spending 200m) with a mid- table PPG of 1.76. Yes, solid mid table record despite spending 200m.

So let's talk again, when you have a meaningful stat to argue. Until then you can be happy with your 'assumptions' while I will go with 'facts'.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It seems Ole loyalists have an annual trophy parade every time Ole adds 26 points on the League table. Pity it ends badly for them as history shows Ole can't go beyond the 66 points and his teams usually finish wherever the Table finds a suitable place for those "66 points". Twice that has been the case, and history has an uncanny habit of repeating itself. That's the furthest we are allowed to go because digging up a bit further into Ole's stint with the Premier league is considered blasphemy inside the Ole fanclub.



Ole loyalists have religiously devoured 136 Molde games and 30 odd Cardiff City games no less than 200 times each but will tell you there is "some thing about Ole" based solely and exclusively on the most recent 500 minutes of football** . It's not as if they suddenly discovered "this thing about Ole" the moment Woodward installed him as a manager. The "fake" supporters of the club know that this is just a passing cloud and pray that Ole loyalists don't leave Ole orphaned when he "jumps the ship" to more promising projects that he found in the Norwegian league. That'd be very embarrassing.

**- Conditions Apply.

What a fan you are eh? Seem upset that we are winning and near the top.

 

[RUCK4444]

What a fan you are eh? Seem upset that we are winning and near the top.

It’s properly weird if you ask me, why would you chose to support your club that way, I will never understand it.

Like they can’t allow themselves to enjoy a good result for the club whilst Ole is here...

 

[Berbasbullet]

This is exactly the problem . Irrelevant stats like "since Bruno joined ", "Ole as a care taker manager" etc . No one cares about such things and it doesn't get us what we want.

You know what's relevant? Our points end of the season which was 65 points last season ( a zero increase from 65 points of previous year despite spending 200m) with a mid- table PPG of 1.76. Yes, solid mid table record despite spending 200m.

So let's talk again, when you have a meaningful stat to argue. Until then you can be happy with your 'assumptions' while I will go with 'facts'.

It’s hardly an irrelevant stat though is it? It shows genuine progress over a long sample. I do agree that it’s cherry picked but Ole deserves credit, and regardless we’re quite close to the top despite this summer the board not backing Ole the way many of us would have liked.

 

[Gypsy-King]

I thought more would want Ole in than this.
Let’s not forget he wasn’t backed in the transfer window ,It obviously wasn’t his first choice to get VDB.
Until The owners pull there finger out and hire a Dof and get rid of Ed Woodward then it’ll be the same with most managers but They will not get rid of him because he’s earning them money.
A lot of people want Poch , give it 2 years we will be saying the same about him because it’s not the manager.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It’s properly weird if you ask me, why would you chose to support your club that way, I will never understand it.

Like they can’t allow themselves to enjoy a good result for the club whilst Ole is here...

I'd like to say this horrible year is to blame and made people a bit crazy.... the truth is we've got some of the worst fans in football. They haven't got a clue most of them.

There's been very obvious progress made under Ole. They are the fools if they are expecting miracles.

 

[RedTiger]

as history shows Ole can't go beyond the 66 points and his teams usually finish wherever the Table finds a suitable place for those "66 points"

The history you're refering to covers what? A full season and 2 half seasons?

 

[RUCK4444]

I'd like to say this horrible year is to blame and made people a bit crazy.... the truth is we've got some of the worst fans in football. They haven't got a clue most of them.

There's been very obvious progress made under Ole. They are the fools if they are expecting miracles.

Totally agree, this was here before this year and will no doubt sadly remain.

It hurts my head why they can’t see the progress that has been made, slower than we would all like but progress all the same. We can’t risk that by hitting the reset button now with a new manager.

The way I see it this current team under Ole has answered more questions of themselves and at times really showed us what they are capable of, more so than at any time since SAF. The key now is consistency, hitting the required benchmark every week. We still have weaknesses in the squad but I believe we will get there.

 

[Leftback99]

Is that poster still talking about 'points per game'? Relentless.

 

[FatherWolff]

It’s properly weird if you ask me, why would you chose to support your club that way, I will never understand it.

Like they can’t allow themselves to enjoy a good result for the club whilst Ole is here...

I touched it in another thread. It’s called misjudged “sense of coherence”!
I am! Therefore I am!

 

[Doracle]

This is exactly the problem . Irrelevant stats like "since Bruno joined ", "Ole as a care taker manager" etc . No one cares about such things and it doesn't get us what we want.

You know what's relevant? Our points end of the season which was 65 points last season ( a zero increase from 65 points of previous year despite spending 200m) with a mid- table PPG of 1.76. Yes, solid mid table record despite spending 200m.

So let's talk again, when you have a meaningful stat to argue. Until then you can be happy with your 'assumptions' while I will go with 'facts'.

This is a poor argument. Everyone accepts that the first half of last season wasn’t good enough and that, had that form continued, Ole would have probably been out of a job at latest in the Summer.

However, what actually happened was that the performances and results significantly improved. Over the past 32 games we average 2 points a game and that includes a dodgy pre Bruno spell when Rashford was also out and an understandably slow start to this season. We also finished 3rd last season which, however you want to cut it, is not mid table.

What you seem to want to do, when presented with perfectly sensible stats showing improvement over both a short and medium term period is to look back 12 months and more ago and bring those results in, as though they are somehow relevant to how the current team perform. That is neither a reasonable, not logical, way of measuring the current performance of team or manager.

 

[Taktik T-Rex]

What a fan you are eh? Seem upset that we are winning and near the top.

Fan of the club. Not fan of a personality regardless of whoever he is. The club is bigger and much grander than Solskjaer, always was and always will be long after he's gone. Just because he gets to warm the managerial chair doesn't mean he deserves to be venerated as a God. Regarding "near the top", I did enjoy 81 points and the FA Cup, Stockholm and the League Cup. For you it's the 13 game table it seems.

Oh I dont know

28 wins - 8 draws and 8 defeats since february 1st

Goal difference 100-46

That is a win ratio of 63%
2.27 goals scored pr game

Since we are in the business of judging a manager by the calendar year.......

Solskjaer Stats from 3rd February 2019 to 26th December 2019

22 wins 11 draws 15 defeats

Goal difference 69-55

That's a win ratio of 45%
1.6 points per game
1.4 goals per game.

Over all, dumped out of 3 cup semi-finals, 1 cup quarter-finals. That's ignoring the Barca drubbing.

Finished 3rd but ultimately went back to the Europa League. Oh yeah some good games worthy of a memorable Bluray.....if we forget Crystal Palace, Everton, Spurs,

 

[Foxbatt]

I love reading the comments from the Ole out brigade right now. You can tell they are seething that we are 3rd in table with a game in hand to go 2nd.

You're not real supporters. You're all more bothered about being proven right than supporting the team and manager. 6 wins and a draw in our last 7 PL games proves Ole has got something about him but you still won't give him credit. Embarrassed to support same club as some of you lot.

Ole has done a really good so far in tough circumstances. If you were expecting to go from zero to 100 in 2 years then more fool you. Trust the process.

Who are these Ole out brigade that you talk about who are not real supporters of Manchester United?

 

[Rightnr]

I love reading the comments from the Ole out brigade right now. You can tell they are seething that we are 3rd in table with a game in hand to go 2nd.

You're not real supporters. You're all more bothered about being proven right than supporting the team and manager. 6 wins and a draw in our last 7 PL games proves Ole has got something about him but you still won't give him credit. Embarrassed to support same club as some of you lot.

Ole has done a really good so far in tough circumstances. If you were expecting to go from zero to 100 in 2 years then more fool you. Trust the process.

Pathetic. It seems sammsky has set up a second account or extended his cult to two. Absolute joker.

This is why I won't bother 'discussing' on this 'discussion' forum. You belong in the kindergarten or in Boris Clownson's government.

 

[VP89]

"Ole out brigade"
"Ole loyalist"

The issue isn't whether you think Ole is the right man or not - there are many amicable debates to be had by either view. The real problem is are imbecilic posts which intentionally stir the pot and presume higher ground or lack of loyalty with attacks that go beyond the manager.

There's a lot of firepower for both sides to debate amicably without resorting to the above. I strongly doubted Ole when he joined, and I said post lockdown he won me over. Then I doubted him again, and right now he might prove me wrong. That's part of the ride when we're building something I guess, I've never seen someone have a proper crack at our club beyond 2 years in my entire lifetime.

But I much prefer reading cases for and against our manager by those with reasonable logic than others who just want to insult and belittle other poster's support. The same goes for those belittling other's posts - me included on that part (@UNITED ACADEMY I apologize for my tone in our arguments)

 

[eire-red]

I love reading the comments from the Ole out brigade right now. You can tell they are seething that we are 3rd in table with a game in hand to go 2nd.

You're not real supporters. You're all more bothered about being proven right than supporting the team and manager. 6 wins and a draw in our last 7 PL games proves Ole has got something about him but you still won't give him credit. Embarrassed to support same club as some of you lot.

Ole has done a really good so far in tough circumstances. If you were expecting to go from zero to 100 in 2 years then more fool you. Trust the process.

I'm very sceptical that Ole will bring us back to the top, and I'm probably more Ole out than in (constantly teetering either way I would say), but I'm delighted about our recent form, I haven't felt this anticipation and nervousness before United games in a long time. Under LVG and Mourinho it was almost like a chore watching sometimes, and the tragic results felt inevitable.

Probably not the best idea to paint everyone with the same brush. I would love it more than anything if Ole brings success back to OT. An ex player, and a legend at that, playing attacking and attractive football, with local lads representing all across the team. When it's good under Ole, it's so good. But I still have reservations about him being the one that will lead us forward. Does that mean I'm not a proper fan?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Pathetic. It seems sammsky has set up a second account or extended his cult to two. Absolute joker.

This is why I won't bother 'discussing' on this 'discussion' forum. You belong in the kindergarten or in Boris Clownson's government.

And he's the exact kind that would moan about 'toxicity' etc. There's some fecking weapons in here these days. There's no way a serious debate can take place anymore.

 

[lysglimt]

This is exactly the problem . Irrelevant stats like "since Bruno joined ", "Ole as a care taker manager" etc . No one cares about such things and it doesn't get us what we want.

You know what's relevant? Our points end of the season which was 65 points last season ( a zero increase from 65 points of previous year despite spending 200m) with a mid- table PPG of 1.76. Yes, solid mid table record despite spending 200m.

So let's talk again, when you have a meaningful stat to argue. Until then you can be happy with your 'assumptions' while I will go with 'facts'.

So our form over 11 months is irrelevant ?

What you are basically saying is that since we only got 66 Points last season he should be fired - regardless of what we do this season

But you don't want to talk again when I have "meaningful" stat to argue - because you want him fired now. If you had said - I expect an improvment from last Seasons 66 Points or I want him fired - then fine. But now you are saying we did poorly last season so I want him now - regardless of how well we happen to be doing right now. Are you aware how stupid that sounds ?

 

[lysglimt]

It’s hardly an irrelevant stat though is it? It shows genuine progress over a long sample. I do agree that it’s cherry picked but Ole deserves credit, and regardless we’re quite close to the top despite this summer the board not backing Ole the way many of us would have liked.

You could say I cherrypicked 11 months - but I could take 3 weeks, 2 months, 4 months or 8 months - and we would have really good stats regardless. But is it any difference than what he does ? He picked 2 years so he could be sure to include the worst period of OGS time here. And regardless - what happened in the last 6 months is a lot more relevant than what happened 12-18 months ago with a completely different team

 

[Berbasbullet]

You could say I cherrypicked 11 months - but I could take 3 weeks, 2 months, 4 months or 8 months - and we would have really good stats regardless. But is it any difference than what he does ? He picked 2 years so he could be sure to include the worst period of OGS time here. And regardless - what happened in the last 6 months is a lot more relevant than what happened 12-18 months ago with a completely different team

That’s fair, ultimately you have picked the most recent sample and regardless we have been good in 2020.

 

[90 + 5min]

So our form over 11 months is irrelevant ?

What you are basically saying is that since we only got 66 Points last season he should be fired - regardless of what we do this season

But you don't want to talk again when I have "meaningful" stat to argue - because you want him fired now. If you had said - I expect an improvment from last Seasons 66 Points or I want him fired - then fine. But now you are saying we did poorly last season so I want him now - regardless of how well we happen to be doing right now. Are you aware how stupid that sounds ?

But it was relevant to bring up what Solskjaer did in Cardiff. It was also relevant to bring up that he didn't won every season in Norway. Although we, who follow many leagues and have connections, know what great job he did. But hey, moving goalposts is normal as long as it suits agenda.

We should judge Solskjaer on how he is doing here and now and if we are showing progress or not. He is still the right man for the job. Not the best in the world, but right for us. If nothing on a big scale happens, next time we should evaluate him is in the summer.

 

[onetwo3oclock4oclockrock]

I'm probably more Ole out than in (constantly teetering either way I would say), but I'm delighted about our recent form, I haven't felt this anticipation and nervousness before United games in a long time. Under LVG and Mourinho it was almost like a chore watching sometimes, and the tragic results felt inevitable.

Then i don't really get why you want him out?
-The team keeps improving, and has been the best in PL over an 11 month period.
-We are in the title race
-The harmony seems to be back in the club, and the players obviously enjoy playing under Ole
-For the first time in a long while you are enjoying seeing us play

Yet, you want him out? Fair enough, but I struggle to see the logic?

 

[JG3001]

I haven’t been convinced for the longest time, but have to admit it seems silly asking for the sack at this very moment (and I was pushing for it hard after that CL bottlejob). Bit of a weird one where there’s so little in it with regards to the table. 2/3 poor games and teams could be dropping to 10th quite easily.

Best indication will probably be our position at the 19 game mark... I think some people forget that Christmas isn’t the halfway point

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Pathetic. It seems sammsky has set up a second account or extended his cult to two. Absolute joker.

This is why I won't bother 'discussing' on this 'discussion' forum. You belong in the kindergarten or in Boris Clownson's government.

I'm the joker for supporting the manager who has the 3rd highest pts percentage in Utd manager history? Who finished 3rd in his only fully completed season to date? Who has us incredibly competitive in the league so far this year?

No my friend the pathetic ones are you lot who chucked your toys out of the pram after a handful of games and Ole has already started to show you were wrong.

We won't win the league this year but nor should we. Liverpool are simply better than us sadly. We have every chance to finish 2nd best though or at worst finish 3rd. Why not? Nobody else is playing any better than we are.

 

[Robbie Boy]

At the end of the day, he's done enough at this point to remain until the end of the season and reevaluate then. There's no viable candidates available and we're well placed in the league. Who knows where we'll go from here but a comfortable top four finish and a cup win would be promising. The CL exit can't be ignored but it's history now.

These two stauch 'camps' are becoming more aggessive and posting more paragraphs of waffle than ever before. The mind boggles. There's clearly positives and negatives to be discussed and posters should be able to do so without a childish debate about 'OleInners' and OleOuters'. Talk about cringe even using those terms. I often wonder if these posters carry on like this in the actual real world. Oh and condescending threads about being third don't help either. Imagine a week previous someone started one about being 7th or 8th. Just grow the feck up.

 

[eire-red]

Then i don't really get why you want him out?
-The team keeps improving, and has been the best in PL over an 11 month period.
-We are in the title race
-The harmony seems to be back in the club, and the players obviously enjoy playing under Ole
-For the first time in a long while you are enjoying seeing us play

Yet, you want him out? Fair enough, but I struggle to see the logic?

I wouldn't say that I want him out in such an outright manner, moreso that I'm content to give him the season, but at the same time wouldn't be too disappointed if we sacked Ole and appointed someone with better credentials.

As for the reason, basically what I said in my first sentence, I don't see us returning to the top with Ole at the helm. I'm looking at his record in the big games last season (the 3 semi finals) and the crunch matches in the CL this season, and you have to question a lot of his decisions.

I see it as comparable to Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers. He got them playing proper football again, and washed away the mediocrity of Daglish and Hodgson, but he ultimately wasn't the man to take them to the next level like Klopp. Is Ole our Klopp? Or is he more Rodgers?

I could be wrong, in fact I really hope I am. But my gut feeling is that Ole will be remembered for setting us back on track as a club, but not for his success as manager. But for the moment, as you rightly point out, we're improving, evolving and gaining momentum so there's probably no real positives to changing managers now. But if we end another season without a trophy, and just a third or fourth place finish to show for our efforts, should we be worried about whether Ole has that edge that the top managers have to help push their team over the line?