WTF! Us state takes aim at abortions

RioNkeanofan

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4742404.stm

US state takes aim at abortions

Pro- and anti-abortionists recently marked 33 years of Roe v Wade
A US state legislature has approved a bill to ban most abortions, in a move aimed to force the US Supreme Court to reconsider its key ruling on the issue.
The South Dakota draft law - which needs approval by the governor, known to be against abortion - seeks jail for doctors who perform terminations.

Exceptions will be made if a woman's life is at risk, but not for rape.

Many believe new appointments to the Supreme Court may have tipped the balance in favour of anti-abortionists.

Clearly, this is a devastating day for the women of South Dakota

Kate Looby
Planned Parenthood


Roe v Wade

Both Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito are considered conservatives.

Justice Alito is thought to be more likely to rule against abortion than his predecessor, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

The supporters of the South Dakota bill say they want to trigger a battle over the 1973 Roe-versus-Wade ruling, in which the US Supreme Court established that governments lacked the power to prohibit abortions.


The bill - passed by 23 votes to 12 in the state senate - is considered one of the strictest passed in the US in recent years.

"The momentum for a change in the national policy on abortion is going to come in the not-too-distant future

Roger Hunt
South Dakota Republican legislator"



It calls for jail sentences of five years for doctors who perform abortions, even in cases where the woman has been raped, her health is threatened or she became pregnant in an incestuous relationship.

"It is the time for the South Dakota Legislature to deal with this issue and protect the lives and rights of unborn children," said the bill's sponsor, Julie Bartling, a Democrat member of the state senate.

But Kate Looby, the director of Planned Parenthood, which performs abortions in the state, told the Washington Post she was "shocked" by the decision.

"Clearly, this is a devastating day for the women of South Dakota," she said. "We fully expected this, yet it's still distressing to know that this legislative body cares so little about women, about families, about women who are victims of rape or incest."

'Abhorrent practice'

BBC Americas analyst Simon Watts says the legislation is unlikely to take effect because of the legal challenges, which are the real point of the bill.

"The momentum for a change in the national policy on abortion is going to come in the not-too-distant future," the Washington Post quoted Roger Hunt, a Republican in the state house of representatives, as saying.

Opponents of abortion are said to be encouraged by the Supreme Court's decision earlier this week to reconsider the legality of so-called partial birth abortions.

A 2003 law outlawing the practice was never enacted because an appeals court said it made no exception to protect a pregnant mother's health.

But President George W Bush describes the practice as "abhorrent" and his administration has appealed to the court to consider urgently whether it should be upheld.

-------------------------

WTF is this did we just move tens of year backwards ! So a woman that is raped or is a victim of incest should just forget what happend to her and just have her abuser baby,,grrr crazy people.
:mad:
 

The Kippax Kid

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that is appalling.

all it will succeed in doing is endangering lives because girls will go to underground clinics etc.

is bush trying to out taliban the taliban
 

alonso767

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could be some interesting legal battles in the states in the next few years, bush has got some right cnuts on the supreme court that could probably push such an agenda through on a national level.

yanks :wenger:
 

Wibble

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The rise of fundamental Christian bullshit seems widespread at the moment.

I for one am sick of it.
 

Wibble

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The law as a system is not sensible if a woman's right to make decisions about her own body is a fecking constitutional issue.

I am a Republican in theory (here is Oz) but the thought of being held to ransom by a constitution concerns me.

Then again it seems to work better in say Ireland than in the US where the constitution seems to be merely a method for extreme pressure groups to argue endlessly while making lawyers rich.

And whatever happend to the seperation of Church and State. Seems to be non-existant in most countries now.
 

Kevrockcity

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Wibble said:
The law as a system is not sensible if a woman's right to make decisions about her own body is a fecking constitutional issue.

I am a Republican in theory (here is Oz) but the thought of being held to ransom by a constitution concerns me.

Then again it seems to work better in say Ireland than in the US where the constitution seems to be merely a method for extreme pressure groups to argue endlessly while making lawyers rich.

And whatever happend to the seperation of Church and State. Seems to be non-existant in most countries now.
well, i think the issue is decidedly more complicated than "it's a woman's body." an abortion is not any operation. it is not having your appendix taken out.

you're right about it not being a consitutional issue, though. that's why the supreme court shouldn't be making roe v. wade rulings or any other such nonsense.
 

Wibble

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More complicated? Far less complicated/dangerous in 99% of cases in a physical medical sense. And anything else is nobody elses business.

Early term RU486 type procedures would be the norm if it wasn't for interfearing relgious busybodies.
 

Kevrockcity

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Wibble said:
More complicated? Far less complicated/dangerous in 99% of cases in physical medical sense. And anything else is nobody elses business.

Early term RU486 type procedures would be the norm if it wasn't for interfearing relgious busybodies.
complicated in the ethical sense. a fetus is not an appendix - you don't have to be a religious nutter to realize that much. it is not just any operation.

you are probably right about the ru486 stuff.
 

Wibble

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I believe that in the medical sense it is indeed just another operation. And an appendix has far more cells than an early term foetus. I don't believe that conception is anything special in a moral sense even if it is biologically rather impressive. After all it is merely (mainly) a reproductive tactic to cope with parasites.

As you get closer to there being a potentially self sustaining organism of course we have to set a limit. But even without religious considerations most of this descision making is made emotionally rather than rationally.

Prior to whatever (hopefully sensible) time limits are set I firmly believe that it nobody elses business and especially not the states.
 

The Kippax Kid

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Kevrockcity said:
you really think so?


the fundamentalists of the taliban make such law..........and so does bush and his extereme right wing administration.

america is becoming the new fascist state.
 

Slabber

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They'll just go the a more liberal state, just like the Irish come to Britain for their abortions.
 

The Kippax Kid

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Slabber said:
They'll just go the a more liberal state, just like the Irish come to Britain for their abortions.
where can the girls go though slabbs if all the states say no.

costa rica?

haiti?

its dangerous and its scary.

the legislation is so anti women it is smacks of the taliban, what happened to equality.

it makes me sick when men in suits with no idea make legislation of which they no not the consequence
 

alonso767

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Wibble said:
I am a Republican in theory (here is Oz) but the thought of being held to ransom by a constitution concerns me.
while im not a republican, i do find it incredibly bizarre how much people see themselves limited politically be the constitution in this country.

for the most part, it wasnt that great a document, founded by a bunch of slave-owning people fearful of what would happen if the masses got too much power.
 

Kevrockcity

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The Kippax Kid said:
you really think so?


the fundamentalists of the taliban make such law..........and so does bush and his extereme right wing administration.

america is becoming the new fascist state.
yes, the comment is bizarre. why not just say bush is out nazi-ing the nazis? it demonstrates lack of perspective.

bush has made no law outlawing abortion. this is a state legislature passing the law. it is up to the courts to decide whether it is constitutional or not. if it is consitutional, then it would be a reversal of roe. this does not mean abortion is all of a sudden illegal in the united states. it means that states would be free to pass laws restricting abortion in the manner of which they please. as they should be. it's called federalism and it used to be an important element of american governance before people like bush sought to centralize as much power as possible (in the national government, and further, the executive branch).

sending abortion back to the states and allowing them to democratically decide on what limitations would be placed on it is the opposite of facism.
 

Kevrockcity

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The Kippax Kid said:
where can the girls go though slabbs if all the states say no.

costa rica?

haiti?

its dangerous and its scary.

the legislation is so anti women it is smacks of the taliban, what happened to equality.

it makes me sick when men in suits with no idea make legislation of which they no not the consequence
all the states won't say no. the pro-life position is the minority one in this country - should states be allowed to legislate the issue, they will undoubtedly reflect that.
 

The Kippax Kid

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Kevrockcity said:
sending abortion back to the states and allowing them to democratically decide on what limitations would be placed on it is the opposite of facism.
by allowing it then is surely wrong.

i have no idea how your fedarilsm works, but if the top man allow such things he is cupable surely?

or are half your democratically elected states run by hard right christian fundamentalists.

what a dangerous country you live in when you womens rights are given so little thought
 

alonso767

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The Kippax Kid said:
by allowing it then is surely wrong.

i have no idea how your fedarilsm works, but if the top man allow such things he is cupable surely?

or are half your democratically elected states run by hard right christian fundamentalists.

what a dangerous country you live in when you womens rights are given so little thought
don't know if women's rights are not being give substantial thought, i think the issue is a debate for most people.

sadly, i think a lot of people in this country are very religious (possibly fundamentalists in certain respects, it could be argued) and for this reason alone i think abortion could definitely be threatened in several states. ultimately, however, most of the states in this country wouldnt allow such legislation to get through, so unless abortion is banned from the president in a top-down political move, it wont be threatened on a national level.

although i still think this scenario (bush getting roe v wade overturned in the courts) is still frighteningly possible...
 

Kevrockcity

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Wibble said:
I believe that in the medical sense it is indeed just another operation. And an appendix has far more cells than an early term foetus. I don't believe that conception is anything special in a moral sense even if it is biologically rather impressive. After all it is merely (mainly) a reproductive tactic to cope with parasites.

As you get closer to there being a potentially self sustaining organism of course we have to set a limit. But even without religious considerations most of this descision making is made emotionally rather than rationally.

Prior to whatever (hopefully sensible) time limits are set I firmly believe that it nobody elses business and especially not the states.
but ethics do play a part in governance. when a pregnant woman drinks, smokes, or shoots crack into her eyeball, we recognize that she is doing harm to something that is not herself. i do not think this irrational or religious.
 

spinoza

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Kevrockcity said:
but ethics do play a part in governance. when a pregnant woman drinks, smokes, or shoots crack into her eyeball, we recognize that she is doing harm to something that is not herself. i do not think this irrational or religious.
"Something" is different from "someone". Dick Cheney did harm to plenty of innocent fully grown quail (and one not so innocent lawyer) several weeks ago, and I don't see people condemning him for that. Well, not too much.
 

Kevrockcity

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The Kippax Kid said:
by allowing it then is surely wrong.

i have no idea how your fedarilsm works, but if the top man allow such things he is cupable surely?

or are half your democratically elected states run by hard right christian fundamentalists.

what a dangerous country you live in when you womens rights are given so little thought
by allowing what? the states to decide? the supreme court allows that, basing their decision upon the consitution. again, roe v. wade took the issue away from the states, improperly so imo (and opinion of most who know anything about constitutional law). the president, one branch of the federal government, nominated judges for the court (as seats open), who are then confirmed by congress, another branch of the government. this is how the system works.

half the states are not run by hard right christian fundamentalists. whatever your perception is, it is incorrect.

abortion is decidedly more complicated than simply "denying rights to women" or whatever.
 

ooeat0meoo

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It'll be just enogh for the common person in the US to be distracted to not notice that even larger portions of the US economy has been sold off to some third world nation, or China, or the lowest bidder for the labor.

To save Slabber the time of insulting himself with obvious stabs, you're probably correct in thinking, it does take much to distract them yanks.;)
 

Kevrockcity

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spinoza said:
"Something" is different from "someone". Dick Cheney did harm to plenty of innocent fully grown quail (and one not so innocent lawyer) several weeks ago, and I don't see people condemning him for that. Well, not too much.
i'm not sure he hit any quail. ;)
 

Wibble

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I believe that it is potentially irrational if the action is before whatever cut-off period is set for abortion. I suppose that you can argue that particular earlier actions affect the human being that these cells will become. Abortion doesn't because there is no eventual human being.

But these sorts of arguments are difficult to administer since wanking is a waste of potential humans (half joking of course).
 

The Kippax Kid

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alonso767 said:
don't know if women's rights are not being give substantial thought, i think the issue is a debate for most people.

sadly, i think a lot of people in this country are very religious (possibly fundamentalists in certain respects, it could be argued) and for this reason alone i think abortion could definitely be threatened in several states. ultimately, however, most of the states in this country wouldnt allow such legislation to get through, so unless abortion is banned from the president in a top-down political move, it wont be threatened on a national level.

although i still think this scenario (bush getting roe v wade overturned in the courts) is still frighteningly possible...
i really dont understand your bizarre way you country is governed.

your president picks the judges in the supreme court which makes it politically biased and therefore loyal to the president making it easier for the president to rule by decree.

you have no have no apparent safeguards to stop these abuses of power.

your country has an appaling record when it comes to equality yet seeks to impose its doctrines on the rest of the world.

you can then blame it on federalism (devolved power,you say) when people see fault.

your writen constitiusion can be argued so many different ways and is outdated because it cant evolve.

you seek to impose to your "freedoms" on all and sundry despite the cultural differences you find.

your record on human rights is historically disgusting and should be pilloried by all the all the free thinking countrys of europe (thank feck for france)


and above all.you can pass legislation state by state which gets yur president of the hook for being the biggest crook and scariest man the world has ever known.

i have never really posted in here because you fellas go on and on about things youthink important.

womens rights are important too..........fooking think about next time you have a bent election
 

FresnoBob

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The Kippax Kid said:
by allowing it then is surely wrong.

i have no idea how your fedarilsm works, but if the top man allow such things he is cupable surely?

or are half your democratically elected states run by hard right christian fundamentalists.

what a dangerous country you live in when you womens rights are given so little thought
The "top man" [Dubya] is only the president of the United States. That doesn't give him the right to try to run the individual states. He is not "culpable"if Kansas tries to end abortion or Montana makes carrying a firearm mandatory. Think of our states more along the lines of being Wales or Scotland in the United Kingdom than being Devonshire or Kent. The States have a long and colorful history of not getting along with the idiots inside the Beltway.

I'm sorry your concept of "womens' rights" is limited to getting an abortion whenever and wherever. On behalf of my sisters, wife, and daughter, I don't tend to find this country overly dangerous when it comes to opportunites and rights for women.

KK--I just read the last post you put in (after I started working on this one). I used to think you were a balanced person--but you know squat about the politics and history of the US and your ravings are getting a bit much. Why not wait to see if some state law restricting abortion sustains constitutional muster before telling us to ditch a system you don't understand?
 

Kevrockcity

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Wibble said:
I believe that it is potentially irrational if the action is before whatever cut-off period is set for abortion. I suppose that you can argue that particular earlier actions affect the human being that these cells will become. Abortion doesn't because there is no eventual human being.

But these sorts of arguments are difficult to administer since wanking is a waste of potential humans (half joking of course).
it is issues like this that make abortion such a tricky, complicated matter. a guy shoots a woman who is 7 months pregnant. how many murders is this? what if he shoots her in the waiting room of an abortion clinic? what if she's 3 months pregant? 3 weeks? i don't know.

personally, despite my feelings on roe v. wade, i would not ban abortions (there would be restrictions, however). but i would not seek to nationalize the issue, either. it's a state issue. if the federal government wants to make it their issue, they can ammend the constitution to reflect that.
 

Kevrockcity

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The Kippax Kid said:
i really dont understand your bizarre way you country is governed.

your president picks the judges in the supreme court which makes it politically biased and therefore loyal to the president making it easier for the president to rule by decree.

you have no have no apparent safeguards to stop these abuses of power.

your country has an appaling record when it comes to equality yet seeks to impose its doctrines on the rest of the world.

you can then blame it on federalism (devolved power,you say) when people see fault.

your writen constitiusion can be argued so many different ways and is outdated because it cant evolve.

you seek to impose to your "freedoms" on all and sundry despite the cultural differences you find.

your record on human rights is historically disgusting and should be pilloried by all the all the free thinking countrys of europe (thank feck for france)


and above all.you can pass legislation state by state which gets yur president of the hook for being the biggest crook and scariest man the world has ever known.

i have never really posted in here because you fellas go on and on about things youthink important.

womens rights are important too..........fooking think about next time you have a bent election
kippax, i'm sure you're a very nice person and your posts have been great to read elsewhere on this board. but this is insanity and demonstrates considerable ignorance about the american system of governance and history. i'm sorry.
 

The Kippax Kid

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FresnoBob said:
.

KK--I just read the last post you put in (after I started working on this one). I used to think you were a balanced person--but you know squat about the politics and history of the US and your ravings are getting a bit much. Why not wait to see if some state law restricting abortion sustains constitutional muster before telling us to ditch a system you don't understand?
i said i did not understand your system

assuming im unbalanced because i dont is typical of your country.
 

The Kippax Kid

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Kevrockcity said:
kippax, i'm sure you're a very nice person and your posts have been great to read elsewhere on this board. but this is insanity and demonstrates considerable ignorance about the american system of governance and history. i'm sorry.

explain it to me then.

or do dumb women not count
 

Kevrockcity

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you're not a dumb woman. you're just dumb about this topic. we can't know everything. be patient - i'll go through it point point. deal?