Yanks shoot Italian journalist who was just released

Wellesley

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Another "just wondering"...
Have we heard anything of the 30 successful stops at that checkpoint over the last two years? How many medals have gone to the volunteer Americans who stand in the way, and how many have died?
 

Raoul

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casbomb said:
ROME (Reuters) - Freed Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena has described on Saturday how U.S. forces sprayed her car with bullets as it neared safety in Iraq, wounding her and killing the man who had secured her release moments earlier.

U.S. forces opened fire as the car carrying Sgrena neared Baghdad airport on Friday after she was released by the militants who had held her captive for more than a month.

Sgrena, a 57-year-old award-winning war reporter, returned to Rome on Saturday and looked in pain as she was helped off a government plane, clutching a plaid blanket and attached to a drip and was put into an ambulance.

"We thought the danger was over after my release to the Italians but all of a sudden there was this shoot-out, we were hit by a barrage of bullets," she told RAI TV by telephone.

Nicola Calipari, the senior secret service agent who had worked for her release, was telling her about what had been going on in Italy since her capture when the shooting started.

"He leaned over me, probably to protect me, and then he slumped down, and I saw he was dead," said Sgrena.

The U.S. military said its forces fired because the car was speeding towards their checkpoint.

But in comments reported by ANSA news agency, Sgrena told Rome investigating magistrates during a debriefing that the car was not going fast and there was no real checkpoint.

"The firing was not justified by the speed of our car," she reportedly said, adding it was travelling at a "regular" speed.

"It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol which shot as soon as it had lit us up with a spotlight. We had no idea where the shots were coming from."

OPPOSITION

Doctors said Sgrena was in stable condition after suffering a gunshot wound to her left shoulder, fracturing a bone and causing bruising to a lung.

The incident could rekindle anti-war sentiment in Italy, where public opinion opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

It has caused the worst fall out in years between the United States and Italy, with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi taking the rare step of summoning the U.S. ambassador for an explanation.

In a telephone call, Bush promised Berlusconi a full investigation.

Berlusconi defied public opinion by sending 3,000 soldiers to Iraq after the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 and has rejected past calls to withdraw the troops.

Italy's centre-left, which hopes to unseat Berlusconi next year in elections and to weaken his standing at local government polls next month, is campaigning on a platform of withdrawing.

DELIBERATE

While moderate opposition leaders were cautious in their criticism, hardline leftists said the shooting would galvanise anti-war opinion.

"I don't believe a word of the American version," said Oliviero Diliberto, head of the Italian Communist party, part of the main left-wing block led by former premier Romano Prodi.

"The Americans deliberately fired on Italians. This is huge. All of the centre-left must vote in parliament for the withdrawal of our troops."

Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini, who will address the lower house on the incident on Tuesday, said it would not harm ties with Washington.

"My position on the United States will not change one iota from what I have expressed a thousand times," Fini told leading daily newspaper Corriere della Sera. "This was a macabre twist of fate, a tragedy determined by destiny."

Sgrena's partner Pier Scolari, speaking outside the hospital where she is being treated, accused U.S. forces of, at best, recklessness and even suggested the troops had targeted Sgrena.

"I hope the Italian government does something because either this was an ambush, as I think, or we are dealing with imbeciles or terrorised kids who shoot at anyone," he said.

Two other secret service agents were also wounded in the shooting. One returned with Sgrena, the other, more seriously wounded, is being treated in Iraq.

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Hmm...
What do you expect her to say. "My driver was shitting his pants and speeding like a maniac, thus I feel that it was completely justified to spray my vehicle with bullets". :wenger:
 

Wellesley

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Raoul said:
What do you expect her to say. "My driver was shitting his pants and speeding like a maniac, thus I feel that it was completely justified to spray my vehicle with bullets". :wenger:
No need to get nasty. You have seen checkpoints as have I, you know how serious it is to look down the twin barrels of 50 cals. I would stop NOW, then shit my pants and spread out my hands and legs as I laid on the ground. A four of five round 50 cal warning burst in front of the car is rather intimidating and my foot is just 2 inches from the brake!

Now if I were the author, I do what sells cause that's my job. But I really would have thoughtfully looked at both sides. I like doing that. It keeps me from becoming a complete arse. ;)
 

Wibble

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If the ludicrous suggestion that it was an assasination was true why would the US forces do it in such a public way? Preposerous IMO.

And if the US assasinated every vaugely left leaning Europen journalist, or even those on the ground in Iraq, we wouldn't be able ta take a walk without tripping over journalistic corpses.

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy? :rolleyes:
 

Raoul

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Wellesley said:
No need to get nasty. You have seen checkpoints as have I, you know how serious it is to look down the twin barrels of 50 cals. I would stop NOW, then shit my pants and spread out my hands and legs as I laid on the ground. A four of five round 50 cal warning burst in front of the car is rather intimidating and my foot is just 2 inches from the brake!

Now if I were the author, I do what sells cause that's my job. But I really would have thoughtfully looked at both sides. I like doing that. It keeps me from becoming a complete arse. ;)
I was aiming my remarks at people who are questioning the action of shooting at the vehicle.
 

Kevrockcity

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pictures of the journalist's car have just been released:

note: car is "riddled" with bullet holes:



note: single bullet hole in windshield:



note: single bullet hole in tire:



sgrena claims (at alternate times) that the car was was riddled with 300-400 bullets for 10-15 seconds. there is also the accusation that tanks were involved. the u.s. says that the car was speeding and soldiers shot at the engine block to stop it.

people can look at those pictures and decide for themselves which scenario is more likely.

for more interesting sgrena claims, this article provides plenty, such as her allegations of u.s. troops using napalm and nuclear weapons in iraq:

http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en/420dd721e0ff0.html
 

Sultan

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I would like to see the right side before I comment. ;)
 

Kevrockcity

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redsultan said:
I would like to see the right side before I comment. ;)
i tend to think this proves that american soldiers are amazing markmen - the ability to shoot so many rounds at a moving target through the same bullet hole is astounding!

;)
 

Sultan

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Kevrockcity said:
i tend to think this proves that american soldiers are amazing markmen - the ability to shoot so many rounds at a moving target through the same bullet hole is astounding!

;)
Wish some had been playing for Utd yesterday.
 

Raoul

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That looks about right. Take out the engine block, driver, tires etc. Hope this puts this riddled with bullets rubbish to bed.
 

Kevrockcity

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nickm said:
To be fair, she does not assert that claim herself. She mentions hearsay from locals who presumably would have no idea what the effects of napalm or nukes would be.
either way, it's not responsible journalism - since the locals would have no idea what the effects of napalm or nukes would be, who is she even printing what they have to say other than to insinuate to an audience (who is already predisposed to to anti-americanism) that the u.s. may, in fact, be using napalm or nuclear weapons in iraq.
 

Suedesi

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Wibble said:
Behave like an idiot in a war zone and the results can be fatal. In fact simply being in a war zone can seriously damage your health.

To suggest that it was a deliberate attempt by the US to kill an Italian journalist seem to be without any foundation in fact. It also seem a bit mad to start from this viewpoint and try to disprove it as some seem to be doing. The equivalent of the "when did you stop beating your wife" question.

It wasn't deliberate; the Italians just got the typical Iraqi treatment that US armed forces dish out in Iraq...

Shoot first, ask question later....
 

mathiaslg

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Suedesi said:
It wasn't deliberate; the Italians just got the typical Iraqi treatment that US armed forces dish out in Iraq...

Shoot first, ask question later....
Who bloody knows the treatment they got...

There have been about 10 different Italian versions of the incident, while the Americans have 1 themselves.
 

Raoul

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Suedesi said:
It wasn't deliberate; the Italians just got the typical Iraqi treatment that US armed forces dish out in Iraq...

Shoot first, ask question later....
Which is the appropriate approach in a combat zone. The other alternative would be ask questions first, die later.
 

Wibble

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Suedesi said:
It wasn't deliberate; the Italians just got the typical Iraqi treatment that US armed forces dish out in Iraq...

Shoot first, ask question later....
But many people are suggesting that it was a deliberate act.

And if I was on a checkpoint in a country where suicide bombings and insurgent attacks in general were common I would also shoot a car that failed to react to warnings to stop.

We don't know the full facts yet but I will be suprised if there is much to blame the soldiers for. Probably due to the actions of the driver of the Italian car driving fast and failing to stop - possibly due to ear that it was insurgents rather than US troops. It is likely to be an unfortunate accident of war whatever the outcome.