Phil Jones

[Stretch]

Jaysus some of you lot! Evans anybody???

I actually thought he defended really well. He was just gash going forward which is to be expected as he's not a full back, SAF's fault not his. Plus he's 19 fecking years old, give the lad time to settle ffs.

 

[ben_foster]

the major difference between jones and evans at 19 was that evens looked like a good defender. he read the game very well and knew how to defend. jones is miles behind evens was when he was 19. Evens at 19 dominated torres and adebayor, jones has been torn a new one every time he plays

 

[Stretch]

the major difference between jones and evans at 19 was that evens looked like a good defender. he read the game very well and knew how to defend. jones is miles behind evens was when he was 19. Evens at 19 dominated torres and adebayor, jones has been torn a new one every time he plays

really? Seemingly you've amnesia about the first half his season. Really chap, breathe and give the lad a chance. I recall just about 6 months ago that Jones and Smalling were rated so much higher than Evans and everyone was going on about how wank Evans is so please spare me this bullshit. You lot are too quick to write off our young talents. Thank goodness none of you are managing our team or any pro football team for that matter.

 

[Walrus]

The more I think about it the bigger a loss Evans seems to have been last night

Were Evans fit, he would play CB, smalling RB and jones in CM to act as the destroyer rather than Park. Sounds a much better team.

 

[Carl]

the major difference between jones and evans at 19 was that evens looked like a good defender. he read the game very well and knew how to defend. jones is miles behind evens was when he was 19. Evens at 19 dominated torres and adebayor, jones has been torn a new one every time he plays

Jones did a lot of things wrong last night but defending wasn't one of them.

 

[Coxy]

There were people in your team that deserve far more bashing than Jones last night ffs. Anyways like others have said - he is just 19 and not playing in his best position.

 

[Stretch]

The more I think about it the bigger a loss Evans seems to have been last night

Were Evans fit, he would play CB, smalling RB and jones in CM to act as the destroyer rather than Park. Sounds a much better team.

My thoughts too. Evans loss put a whole spin on our selection and tactics. I think we'd have gone with the formation and line up you just mentioned was Evans fit.

Jones did a lot of things wrong last night but defending wasn't one of them.

This.

There were people in your team that deserve far more bashing than Jones last night ffs. Anyways like others have said - he is just 19 and not playing in his best position.

Thank you. I've seen over the years on the caf how quickly people write off players when they're going through a bad patch. Jones defended well last night, just his attacking play was sub standard which is not really a shock considering he's a natural CB and not a FB.

 

[Cheesy]

I'm not too worried about Jones. As I've said before, his main problems at this age are things that can be easily fixed such as his positional game and tactical awareness. They come with experience.

 

[ben_foster]

really? Seemingly you've amnesia about the first half his season. Really chap, breathe and give the lad a chance. I recall just about 6 months ago that Jones and Smalling were rated so much higher than Evans and everyone was going on about how wank Evans is so please spare me this bullshit. You lot are too quick to write off our young talents. Thank goodness none of you are managing our team or any pro football team for that matter.

you compared the two at 19. what has earlier in the season got to do with anything???

the old form is temprary class is permanant thing.

Evans is a defender. He knows how to defend. At 19 his positioning and reading of the game was far better than jones is now. that art cant be taught. it can be improved.

jones is a tryer. in terms of effort and determination and attitude he cant be faulted. But as a top level defender he lacks ability. Only a couple of week back Rio was talking about coming off the pitch with clean shorts means you've had a good game. You have prevented danger rather than reacted to it. Jones get himself out of position and then reacts. He reacts well usually but against good opposition its usually too late.

He'l be nothing but a bit part player in any successful united squad!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The stats have Jones down as one of our better performers in possession last night. Got on the ball more than most of his team-mates and passed it more accurately than a good few of them. He also put in our one and only really dangerous cross in the entire game. Which is a better attacking contribution than either Nani or Giggs.

Obviously, that's faint praise but when you consider that he also defended very well it seems to be more than a bit unfair to scapegoat him after this particular game.

 

[Godfather]

Just shows that stats never tell the whole story cause he was really shit with the ball in the opposing half. Got a right bollocking from our players in one or two occasions as well

 

[green demon]

The stats have Jones down as one of our better performers in possession last night. Got on the ball more than most of his team-mates and passed it more accurately than a good few of them. He also put in our one and only really dangerous cross in the entire game. Which is a better attacking contribution than either Nani or Giggs.

Obviously, that's faint praise but when you consider that he also defended very well it seems to be more than a bit unfair to scapegoat him after this particular game.

I thought he did alright actually. He has played worse, and others were less effective last night.

 

[Stretch]

you compared the two at 19. what has earlier in the season got to do with anything???

the old form is temprary class is permanant thing.

Evans is a defender. He knows how to defend. At 19 his positioning and reading of the game was far better than jones is now. that art cant be taught. it can be improved.

jones is a tryer. in terms of effort and determination and attitude he cant be faulted. But as a top level defender he lacks ability. Only a couple of week back Rio was talking about coming off the pitch with clean shorts means you've had a good game. You have prevented danger rather than reacted to it. Jones get himself out of position and then reacts. He reacts well usually but against good opposition its usually too late.

He'l be nothing but a bit part player in any successful united squad!

errr ok...

And regarding comparing Evans to Jones, well it's only fair. Last season people weren't saying 'class is permanent, form is temporary' with Evans. No, they were bashing him saying he should be shipped of as he's not United quality. See other examples like Fletcher and you get my point. You lot are way too quick to write off players as 'not United quality' and yet you've not learnt that more often than not Sir Alex Ferguson gets it right.

 

[Adebesi]

I hope with Jones we have condensed two seasons into one. At the start of the season he was a revelation, then he seemed to have his second season syndrome early, losing his way a bit. The second half of the season has been disappointing for him but he has shown early on why we bought him, that he has plenty of potential.

I dont think it is exactly clear yet where his future lies, position wise. He is very versatile and it is possible he will end up being a new O'Shea kind of character, with all the negativity that brings him. He is certainly not the best option we have anywhere at this stage, but he can do a job in various places and in time he may carve out a role for himself. Give him time.

 

[Sultan]

I hope with Jones we have condensed two seasons into one. At the start of the season he was a revelation, then he seemed to have his second season syndrome early, losing his way a bit. The second half of the season has been disappointing for him but he has shown early on why we bought him, that he has plenty of potential.

I dont think it is exactly clear yet where his future lies, position wise. He is very versatile and it is possible he will end up being a new O'Shea kind of character, with all the negativity that brings him. He is certainly not the best option we have anywhere at this stage, but he can do a job in various places and in time he may carve out a role for himself. Give him time.

Neville seems to be sure he will end up being a centre half. This versatility is going to gain him experience and awareness of the game when he eventually ends up playing in his best position. Looking a lot older than he is seems to be working against him when judged. He is a raw kid and needs a few more years to really blossom.

 

[Steven Seagull]

He's a centre half and would be very good there if we didn't play him behind a midfield consisting of Rafael/Park/Giggs/Rooney.

 

[Scholesgoals]

Exactly.

19 years old and he's tenacious so he often over stretches himself.

 

[Wumminator]

He had a lot better game yesterday than he has in a while. Good on the lad.

 

[Cina]

Jones did a lot of things wrong last night but defending wasn't one of them.

Indeed. He was defensively better than Evra and Smalling.

He was shit going forward, but everyone was. Everyone.

It's unreal the way people are blithering on about him now in comparison to six months ago when he was being called the next Duncan Edwards.

There is no middle ground on this forum.

 

[ben_foster]

errr ok...

And regarding comparing Evans to Jones, well it's only fair. Last season people weren't saying 'class is permanent, form is temporary' with Evans. No, they were bashing him saying he should be shipped of as he's not United quality. See other examples like Fletcher and you get my point. You lot are way too quick to write off players as 'not United quality' and yet you've not learnt that more often than not Sir Alex Ferguson gets it right.

ive never wrote off evans.
always rated him.

for the record i actually thought jones did ok last night. ive not criticesed last nights performance at all.

i just do not understand the constant hype and praise. of course fergie usually gets it right with young players but people can also form their own opinions as opposed to blindly following fergie. i am simply putting forward my opinion of jones. I have been far less impressed with him than many on here who's constant "he's only 19" excuse gets on my tits. The same people bigging up 19 year old jones are the same that slateed 18 year old rafa da silva.

the media have earmarke jones as the next england captai based on a few qoutes from people in the game. they love stuff like this and build it up. people who dont watch football or are not intelligent enough to form their own opinions but prefer to use the "fergie signed him he must be class" approach believe what they read in the press.

he's done well at times at full back. but if somebody can give me an example of a game where he has (or shown potential) of looking a top class centre back then please let me know because i havent.

of course all young defenders make mistakes. but even so you can look at them and see they'll be top notch defenders.

at best phil jones will develop into a similar player to jamie carragher.

 

[dev1l]

jones has the potential to be much better than carragher - whether he ll manage to do it or not its still unclear but he looks to have the right attitude.

His best position is considered by many to be central defender an he played most of the season ar right back or in midfield.(fergie does this to younger players to make them better all round players )

So please before passing judgement give him some time

 

[SecondFig]

Thought Jones had a decent game last night with the one exception of his delivery into the box - which was pretty poor. But I (along with most people) see him a as CB long-term, so no real complaints that a young CB has a bit of a shit cross on him.

Was it frustrating when you saw him hit yet another cross over everyone last night, yes. Does he deserve the criticism he's received, not even nearly.

 

[Stretch]

ive never wrote off evans.
always rated him.

for the record i actually thought jones did ok last night. ive not criticesed last nights performance at all.

i just do not understand the constant hype and praise. of course fergie usually gets it right with young players but people can also form their own opinions as opposed to blindly following fergie. i am simply putting forward my opinion of jones. I have been far less impressed with him than many on here who's constant "he's only 19" excuse gets on my tits. The same people bigging up 19 year old jones are the same that slateed 18 year old rafa da silva.

the media have earmarke jones as the next england captai based on a few qoutes from people in the game. they love stuff like this and build it up. people who dont watch football or are not intelligent enough to form their own opinions but prefer to use the "fergie signed him he must be class" approach believe what they read in the press.

he's done well at times at full back. but if somebody can give me an example of a game where he has (or shown potential) of looking a top class centre back then please let me know because i havent.

of course all young defenders make mistakes. but even so you can look at them and see they'll be top notch defenders.

at best phil jones will develop into a similar player to jamie carragher.

Fair fecks to you if never wrote of Evans, I'm sure you can agree, that most on here did.

And I couldn't care less about media hype, I'm in South Africa so I'm pretty numb to the English media. I form my own opinions on players. And Jones impressed me during the pre-Christmas stint. I can't be arsed to search for it now but you will find many posts raving about how good him and Smalling were at the start of the season, in particular Jones. And whilst you feel that saying he's 19 is irrelevant, well feck me, then I don't know. Not all players are absolute world beaters. As for having a different opinion to SAF, well that's your decision but whilst I have opinions, I've learnt that when it comes judging youngsters, SAF's not far off unlike me and other fickle football fans.

You've taken a serious dislike towards Jones for a slump in form after his great start. There's a reason we signed him 'early' as SAF said because other top sides were after him as well. That would mean all of these other top sides are all looney for rating him highly. Seriously mate, have your opinion, it is a forum after all but I'm not in the business of just slagging of our players willy nilly, especially when they're youngsters. I think he's got the potential to become an excellent CB and so do most people. But according to you he'll never make it at United...that's quite a bold and strong statement to make.

EDIT: oh and regarding good games he's had, well without doing an advanced search, I came across two games that he was in the top 3 for MoTM (Villa and Spurs) and one that he was MoTM (Spurs) in.

 

[ben_foster]

Fair fecks to you if never wrote of Evans, I'm sure you can agree, that most on here did.

And I couldn't care less about media hype, I'm in South Africa so I'm pretty numb to the English media. I form my own opinions on players. And Jones impressed me during the pre-Christmas stint. I can't be arsed to search for it now but you will find many posts raving about how good him and Smalling were at the start of the season, in particular Jones. And whilst you feel that saying he's 19 is irrelevant, well feck me, then I don't know. Not all players are absolute world beaters. As for having a different opinion to SAF, well that's your decision but whilst I have opinions, I've learnt that when it comes judging youngsters, SAF's not far off unlike me and other fickle football fans.

You've taken a serious dislike towards Jones for a slump in form after his great start. There's a reason we signed him 'early' as SAF said because other top sides were after him as well. That would mean all of these other top sides are all looney for rating him highly. Seriously mate, have your opinion, it is a forum after all but I'm not in the business of just slagging of our players willy nilly, especially when they're youngsters. I think he's got the potential to become an excellent CB and so do most people. But according to you he'll never make it at United...that's quite a bold and strong statement to make.

EDIT: oh and regarding good games he's had, well without doing an advanced search, I came across two games that he was in the top 3 for MoTM (Villa and Spurs) and one that he was MoTM (Spurs) in.

people (not me) where raving him about him early in the season because we where playing attackin football and he looked good rampaging forward. however, our defending in those games, in particular jones and especially against chelsea and arsenal, where he played in the middle, in full strength sides was appauling

 

[Coxy]

he's done well at times at full back. but if somebody can give me an example of a game where he has (or shown potential) of looking a top class centre back then please let me know because i havent.

of course all young defenders make mistakes. but even so you can look at them and see they'll be top notch defenders.

at best phil jones will develop into a similar player to jamie carragher.

His Blackburn days were where he showed his class. That's why Fergie then went and spent a fortune on him.

I really don't understand ungrateful fans. You've got a young promising defender. Stop whinging and just be happy your club can get players like that ffs. Time will tell how good he becomes. For a start he needs a run in the side at CB. Playing him all over the place only mucks him about, he needs consistency so start realising the promise.

Regardless of what you think about people saying "he is only 19" that's the truth. Let's just wait and see how good he becomes. If he becomes as good as Carragher then that's great. Not world class but good enough for the top. But he may also become better than that. We shall see...

 

[Stretch]

people (not me) where raving him about him early in the season because we where playing attackin football and he looked good rampaging forward. however, our defending in those games, in particular jones and especially against chelsea and arsenal, where he played in the middle, in full strength sides was appauling

Yes to a degree but not quite. He had all round displays in those games. Our defending in those games was not as a result of Jones but as a result of a naive midfield who went gung ho on attack as well as out of form defenders. I don't agree regarding the Arsenal game but I will concede on the Chelsea game. Yet, the point remains, you've judged and made up your mind on a player when he's barely started his pro career. And yes that counts. Not everyone's a world beater at that age but they will show signs of it. Jones has done that in some of his early games for us and during his time at Blackburn. That's why we spent the money on him. I've just learnt in history that it is dangerous to write of a player at such a young age.

 

[Red Dreams]

He is going to be an immense player for us.

But he is making the mistakes we expect of players his age.

In the City match, teh most frustating thing he did was over hit the pass when we had 4 players in the box.

I have no doubt such errors will disappear in time.

To write him off at this stage is just mindless.

 

[londonredmaniac]

at best phil jones will develop into a similar player to jamie carragher.

 

[Varun]

Writing off a young CB is so idiotic, specially considering Evans taught us a lesson in that aspect this season itself. Defenders arent even close to being close to their best at 20, you'd struggle to find great CB at that age.

Give the lad a chance, a young defender with potential at United, we should be happy not slagging him off every week.

 

[ben_foster]

Yes to a degree but not quite. He had all round displays in those games. Our defending in those games was not as a result of Jones but as a result of a naive midfield who went gung ho on attack as well as out of form defenders. I don't agree regarding the Arsenal game but I will concede on the Chelsea game. Yet, the point remains, you've judged and made up your mind on a player when he's barely started his pro career. And yes that counts. Not everyone's a world beater at that age but they will show signs of it. Jones has done that in some of his early games for us and during his time at Blackburn. That's why we spent the money on him. I've just learnt in history that it is dangerous to write of a player at such a young age.

im not writing him off. he'll be a decent squad player for us. he's replaced john o'shea in my opinion. will have spells of good games but wil never "own" a position.

my point about the age is that excuse is fine if it is used consistantly. Many people have written of the da silva's, de gea, anderson, nani etc all at similar ages. Foreigners arent afforded the same amount of time and suport before they are criticised. Where as english players go the otherway. The next england captain, the new roy keane, the new duncan edwards. He's had a couple of decent games at right back. cant we just leave it at that and be happy with that?

 

[Stretch]

im not writing him off. he'll be a decent squad player for us. he's replaced john o'shea in my opinion. will have spells of good games but wil never "own" a position.

my point about the age is that excuse is fine if it is used consistantly. Many people have written of the da silva's, de gea, anderson, nani etc all at similar ages. Foreigners arent afforded the same amount of time and suport before they are criticised. Where as english players go the otherway. The next england captain, the new roy keane, the new duncan edwards. He's had a couple of decent games at right back. cant we just leave it at that and be happy with that?

I agree with the English players being overhyped but I think because of your annoyance with that, you've now downplayed Jones as a young talent as well. I'm in the middle with this since I'm not English and the only opinion I've of Jones is seeing him play on tele. And I don't agree that you haven't written him off, you have. See bolded part above. Using such words says to me you have written him off.

 

[Scots Crusader]

It is very harsh of anyone to critisise the guy to be honest, in footballing terms he is a bairn. As for his performances at CB, they could be not so good due to the fact we basically never fielded the same back 4. It takes time to get to know your partners at the back especially at a younger age when you do not have the experience to handle new parnerships more easily.

He was solid enough at the back against City, just let himself down a wee bit going forward, but that was probably due to the amount of adrenaline that the magnatude of the game will have caused him to produce. He will learn to control this in time.

 

[ben_foster]

I agree with the English players being overhyped but I think because of your annoyance with that, you've now downplayed Jones as a young talent as well. I'm in the middle with this since I'm not English and the only opinion I've of Jones is seeing him play on tele. And I don't agree that you haven't written him off, you have. See bolded part above. Using such words says to me you have written him off.

im not writing him off at all. ive compared him to john oshea and jamie carragher. both won champions league and played for the countries and had very good premiership careers. Thats the level of potential i see in jones. versatile, brave, great attitude and will never let you down. But ability wise as a defender at the top level and especially when playing against guile and movement i think he is lacking. Similar to sheasy and carragher.

the new roy keane, duncan edward comparisons are just rediculous. Its like compairing julio arca to maradona.

i'll defend him hear too, people criticising him going forward....i couldnt give a feck. if he's going to be a centre half i couldnt careless if he cant cross a ball. So people saying "he needs to work on his crossing" no he doesnt. he needs to work on his defending.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Writing off a young CB is so idiotic, specially considering Evans taught us a lesson in that aspect this season itself. Defenders arent even close to being close to their best at 20, you'd struggle to find great CB at that age.

Give the lad a chance, a young defender with potential at United, we should be happy not slagging him off every week.

Well said.

I can understand his form being commented on but for people to be writing off a 19 year old in his first season at Manchester United seems a bit knee jerk to say the least.

The truth is we don't know how he'll develop but everything is in place (Age, ability, staff/players around him) to suggest he'll continue to improve.

 

[Stretch]

im not writing him off at all. ive compared him to john oshea and jamie carragher. both won champions league and played for the countries and had very good premiership careers. Thats the level of potential i see in jones. versatile, brave, great attitude and will never let you down. But ability wise as a defender at the top level and especially when playing against guile and movement i think he is lacking. Similar to sheasy and carragher.

the new roy keane, duncan edward comparisons are just rediculous. Its like compairing julio arca to maradona.

i'll defend him hear too, people criticising him going forward....i couldnt give a feck. if he's going to be a centre half i couldnt careless if he cant cross a ball. So people saying "he needs to work on his crossing" no he doesnt. he needs to work on his defending.

Fine I will give you that then.

 

[Carl]

How can a person who's sole job it is is to play football not be able to cross a fecking football? He's well down the queue in the centre back pecking order so if he wants to play more football next season he needs to shape up with his crossing.

 

[Carl]

Also, I've never known a player injure himself as much as he does.

 

[thegregster]

How can a person who's sole job it is is to play football not be able to cross a fecking football? He's well down the queue in the centre back pecking order so if he wants to play more football next season he needs to shape up with his crossing.

At the start of the season he was good at it. Very good.

 

[gooDevil]

im not writing him off at all. ive compared him to john oshea and jamie carragher. both won champions league and played for the countries and had very good premiership careers. Thats the level of potential i see in jones. versatile, brave, great attitude and will never let you down. But ability wise as a defender at the top level and especially when playing against guile and movement i think he is lacking. Similar to sheasy and carragher.

the new roy keane, duncan edward comparisons are just rediculous. Its like compairing julio arca to maradona.

i'll defend him hear too, people criticising him going forward....i couldnt give a feck. if he's going to be a centre half i couldnt careless if he cant cross a ball. So people saying "he needs to work on his crossing" no he doesnt. he needs to work on his defending.

He's only 20, defenders take longer to mature as it's so much about positioning and composure. I have no doubt that Jones will come good, wherever he plays.

 

[Ash_G]

How can a person who's sole job it is is to play football not be able to cross a fecking football? He's well down the queue in the centre back pecking order so if he wants to play more football next season he needs to shape up with his crossing.

Tbh I think the bigger question is why is Fergie playing him there when he's done nothing in the majority of his outings there to suggest he's a good outlet there. And considering he ends up seeing a lot of the ball in key moments that's a problem. We have better attacking options there and I can't understand why we've not gone with them.