Fergie's obsession with picking old players in midfield

[Ash_G]

The rhetoric of this thread is basically that Scholes is brilliant, but his brilliance is coming at a cost for the rest of the team. A bit like how we changed for the better as a team after we'd got rid of our dependence on Eric in 97 & Ruud in 06. Despite them both still being brilliant, we developed a far more exciting and coherent style after they left. Both times we also won the CL within 2 years.

Yeah I think that's a good way to put it. His passing is still there, it always will be but because of his limitations he's causing other issues both defensively and attackingly. But it's not just him, it's partly due to our set up. Fergie wants to play Scholes/Giggs but he's not making allowances for the fact that they can't do certain things now.

In some games and situations he is still our best weapon, against Liverpool when they went down to ten it changed the game bringing him on, against Spurs for the first 20 mins of so of the second half once we scared them with some goals and they backed of he took control of the game, against weaker teams at home who park the bus his range helps expose them. But in other games such as that first half against spurs, where teams will come out and compete he just can't handle the other stuff he has to do and as I said Fergie isn't adapting the system to compensate. You don't see managers asking Pirlo to play in a two man midfield.

And it's those tougher games where the likes of Clev and Ando need to get experience, certainly Clev who in reality has played few games in centre mid for a 23 year old we're hoping to be a fixture of our midfield for the next 10 years or so. Whilst he's fit we should get him/Ando involved as much as possible whilst retaining the safety net of Scholes/Giggs.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

"Anderson has done nothing wrong," said Ferguson.

"His pre-season form was terrific and he's a top player, but I still think that (Paul) Scholes is a great player."

...........

 

[Commadus]

At times we were outplayed by the 10 men of Pool and when they went down to 9 men they still looked dangerous.

The warning signs have been there - we have been behind in 5 out of our 6 league games yet Fergie for whatever reason chooses to ignore them.

 

[Scrumpet]

When did they go down to 9 men?

 

[MrMarcello]

Hasn't helped that Anderson, Cleverley and Fletcher have been injured/unavailable during the past 12 months forcing Scholes back into the fold, nor has SAF signed a top class central midfielder in the past, oh decade. Now all three are back and seemingly ready to contribute.

Giggs is certainly better used as a late sub when his legs can catch a defender off balance; perhaps Scholes should be utilized similarly - when that passer/maestro is needed to chase a goal or protect a lead (the latter could be problematic defensively but not with two midfielders next to him to provide energy).

Good thing Beckham and Keane aren't still around - SAF might still play them along with Giggs and Scholes.

 

[ghaliboy]

When did they go down to 9 men?

When Kelly was taken off with a knee injury about 8 minutes from time I believe.

 

[Siorac]

Fergie:

"Anderson is a difficult one to leave out but I don't think there's been anything wrong with the form of Scholes or Carrick, which makes it difficult to involve other players when there's always a desire to play with two wide players."

This is scary. This basically means we're stuck with Carrick-Scholes, stuck with a static, vulnerable midfield that does next to nothing defensively and its most important offensive contribution is to keep pinging the ball out wide.

It's basically proof that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with our midfield which is just baffling and frightening because that means it won't be sorted as long as he's here.

 

[Varun]

Incredible. If we start that against Newcastle, we'l get battered again. Lets hope SAF realises its before its too late.

 

[noodlehair]

Fergie:



This is scary. This basically means we're stuck with Carrick-Scholes, stuck with a static, vulnerable midfield that does next to nothing defensively and its most important offensive contribution is to keep pinging the ball out wide.

It's basically proof that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with our midfield which is just baffling and frightening because that means it won't be sorted as long as he's here.

The penny doesn't exist

 

[esmufc07]

He's hardly going to criticise his players in public is he? What he says in public and what he actually thinks are often two different things (Veron's a fecking great player days before he was sold for example).

The midfield is in need of an overhaul though. I expect both Scholes and Giggs to retire in the summer so I'm sure Fergie will strengthen. He has too.

 

[Varun]

He's hardly going to criticise his players in public is he? What he says in public and what he actually thinks are often two different things (Veron's a fecking great player days before he was sold for example).

The midfield is in need of an overhaul though. I expect both Scholes and Giggs to retire in the summer so I'm sure Fergie will strengthen. He has too.

Guess we'l know when carrick-scholes start again vs Newcastle.

 

[Sultan]

Hey buddy!

To be fair, Veron was a great player. Just so happens some players aren't suited to certain systems.

 

[Adebesi]

He's hardly going to criticise his players in public is he? What he says in public and what he actually thinks are often two different things (Veron's a fecking great player days before he was sold for example).

The midfield is in need of an overhaul though. I expect both Scholes and Giggs to retire in the summer so I'm sure Fergie will strengthen. He has too.

You are bang on the money with your first para.

As for the second, I have given up predicting when SAF will strengthen the midfield. "He has to" is a phrase that has been shown to be utterly meaningless in this context. A lot of people thought he had to in the summer just gone. A lot of people thought he had to the summer before that too. So we might as well just wait and see.

 

[Siorac]

He's hardly going to criticise his players in public is he? What he says in public and what he actually thinks are often two different things (Veron's a fecking great player days before he was sold for example).

The midfield is in need of an overhaul though. I expect both Scholes and Giggs to retire in the summer so I'm sure Fergie will strengthen. He has too.

Yes. He's not going to criticize his players in public so he won't say "Anderson is fat and rubbish, that's why he doesn't play". The facts, however, are there: Carrick-Scholes is our most frequently used combination, Fergie usually insists on it even in the biggest games, even in games they're obviously not suited to. I'm pretty sure he really doesn't see anything wrong with the pair. Another indication is that he hasn't strengthened the midfield in the last few summers despite the necessity.

I'm forced to conclude that he really does believe our best bet is a midfield two of Carrick and Scholes, with two wide players.

 

[lapassion]

Fergie:



This is scary. This basically means we're stuck with Carrick-Scholes, stuck with a static, vulnerable midfield that does next to nothing defensively and its most important offensive contribution is to keep pinging the ball out wide.

It's basically proof that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with our midfield which is just baffling and frightening because that means it won't be sorted as long as he's here.

I just don't understand why he can't see it the way most of us do! It's so obvious! More static football this season, then!

 

[devilish]

Hey buddy!

To be fair, Veron was a great player. Just so happens some players aren't suited to certain systems.

And I wonder whether homegrown talent Giggs and Beckham (not to forget the hardworking Keano) would have been thrilled to see this moaning and lazy (for the EPL standards) foreigner succeed ahead of local lad and club favorite Paul Scholes.

 

[manusteve]

Yes. He's not going to criticize his players in public so he won't say "Anderson is fat and rubbish, that's why he doesn't play". The facts, however, are there: Carrick-Scholes is our most frequently used combination, Fergie usually insists on it even in the biggest games, even in games they're obviously not suited to. I'm pretty sure he really doesn't see anything wrong with the pair. Another indication is that he hasn't strengthened the midfield in the last few summers despite the necessity.

I'm forced to conclude that he really does believe our best bet is a midfield two of Carrick and Scholes, with two wide players.

Not sure about that. Even though Kagawa wasn't break-the-bank price, I'm sure Fergie coveted that extra creativity and pace that we would get from Kagawa more than other players we looked at. And that means not playing a 4 across the midfield. After all, Fergie wasn't at pains to revert to a 4 (2 wingers) when we had Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez buzzing around up front...and no Ronaldo by then was not just a winger.

 

[Ringo 07]

I reckon if we don't sign a midfield monster in January then we shouldnt expect any trophies this year. The likes of Fellaini and Strootman will be available but not sure if either of them are what we need but they would improve us for sure. I get the feeling Fergie opted against signing Dembele as he has never had the best goal scoring record but he might be regreting that decision now. Maybe he see's something in Tunnicliffe though and is happy to let the midfield struggle until he is ready to come though!

 

[Godfather]

Well? He's certainly a lot to blame for our loss today imo. That line-up was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[EricaNo7]

Well? He's certainly a lot to blame for our loss today imo. That line-up was an accident waiting to happen.

I hate to agree. But I'm afraid I do

 

[noodlehair]

It's embarassing now.

If I was Cleverley or Anderson I'd be looking to follow Pogba out of the door rather than let Fergie waste my career with stupidity.

 

[Leg-End]

Let's not go overboard, hes not harming careers because of a couple of bizzare lineups. But I do agree the sooner SAF gets over this passage of picking stupid midfields the better, I just hope something one day clicks in his head so he can actually see what everyone else can see.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's embarassing now.

If I was Cleverley or Anderson I'd be looking to follow Pogba out of the door rather than let Fergie waste my career with stupidity.

I'm beginning to think Pogba made a very very smart decision. He now plays in a team that plays some of the most exciting football in Europe and is getting good gametime in the first team.

And this really is beginning to become a proper obsession of Fergie's. Why not pick one player without legs per game if needed? Fletcher has just sat on the centre circle in every single game he's played this season. In fact, his passing has been his best skill so far which shows you how less dynamic he is now. So we've gone AGAIN with two players incapable of offering any sort of dynamism or forward runs.

The only United games I enjoy these days are in the cups where we rest of the oldies

 

[marjen]

He's added the nice twist of not only selecting a midfielder who can't play in a midfield two anymore, but pairing him with the player who's looked the most off the pace this season out of all our midfielders, in his first PL-start since his break from football due to a disease.

We'll win 7 out of 10 times with this lineup, but why reduce our chances to 7 out of 10 at home vs QPR? For no reason at all?

Also, the most annoying fact is that we'll play the shit on a stick zombie-style football and pray that RVP will win it for us.

 

[Platato]

I agree these lineups are silly but this one may not be so bad today. We'll have to see

 

[Freak]

Absolutely ridiculous. It's sentimentality. That's the only reason I can think off. Makes you wonder if Ando and cleverley think if they should not put in the effort because no matter what they do they won't get picked over 38 year olds.

 

[Ash_G]

I don't mind the midfield today but I really am surprised by it in the context of what's happened so far this season and don't understand what the plan is atm. To me it would have made sense to given either clev or ando as much game time as we could, because in the case of Clev he hasn't had much game time in our first team and so doesn't have a huge amount of experience playing for us or his team mates and particularly for him he's not had much experience of playing in a 2, playing a lot of games this season either in a diamond or as an a/m with england.

By chopping and changing he's not built up any rhythm, nor ando, there's no real established partnership in the middle and Scholes has already played a fair few games from the season start and in pre-season and has looked a little tired. So when the tough periods start particularly with the knock out phase of the CL it doesn't look like we'll have an established pairing with a good understanding and Clev who you'd assume is ahead of Ando atm won't have built up a lot of experience and f Scholes is tired then we won't really have an experienced head to come in, if needed.

 

[EricaNo7]

I've missed the lineup . Who's in midfield ?

 

[noodlehair]

Scholes already well into double figures with pointless, ineffective balls out wide. About half of which were played when there were better options available, and a significant amount of which haven't even reached a United player.

Definitely still our best midfielder

 

[Cina]

The funny thing is that we don't have our two best wingers on the pitch yet he is still doing it at every possible opportunity.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

Scholes already well into double figures with pointless, ineffective balls out wide. About half of which were played when there were better options available, and a significant amount of which haven't even reached a United player.

Definitely still our best midfielder

7 balls out wide into attacking areas out of 61 attempted passes, 5 of which reached their target. That's 7 of his 18 passes in the attacking third.

Has made 4 of our teams 9 tackles.

Keep going though.

 

[marjen]

The thing is Scholes is out of form as well as being blatantly unsuited to play anywhere near a two-man midfield.

He's losing the ball easily and have been a liability in the first half.

Fletcher's taking the fecking biscuit though.

"oh, I see you Robin, you're making a run. I'll pass you the ball, just hang on I'll take about 9 touches and spiral around my own axis 3 times because I think Scott Parker's cool, then I'll pass it very slowly to Evra, then I'll be busy doing nothing while QPR attacks because I'm sick.. oh you're not gonna get it love."

 

[Ash_G]

Tbh think if Rooney or RVP had shown more willingness to come shorter for the ball and try and create we'd have gotten through more. QPR are playing very compact and without someone who's gonna go down the outside and get in behind we need someone who can thread a pass at the edge of the box and that should come mainly from one of rooney or rvp but neither are doing it well atm.

 

[Fergus' son]

The thing is Scholes is out of form as well as being blatantly unsuited to play anywhere near a two-man midfield.

He's losing the ball easily and have been a liability in the first half.

Fletcher's taking the fecking biscuit though.

"oh, I see you Robin, you're making a run. I'll pass you the ball, just hang on I'll take about 9 touches and spiral around my own axis 3 times because I think Scott Parker's cool, then I'll pass it very slowly to Evra, then I'll be busy doing nothing while QPR attacks because I'm sick.. oh you're not gonna get it love."

You're not even funny!

 

[Ruud_boy_10]

Cleverly and Anderson are in their 20's and are being "rested".

 

[noodlehair]

7 balls out wide into attacking areas out of 61 attempted passes, 5 of which reached their target. That's 7 of his 18 passes in the attacking third.

Has made 4 of our teams 9 tackles.

Keep going though.

Sorry, but I counted 10 before I posted that...and then he played another one while I was posting it, and then another two almost immediately afterwards...so try watching instead of relying on some unidentified stats website

Care to explain what having Scholes on the pitch ahead of Anderson or Cleverley has achieved in this half? Apart from 0 clear cut chances and QPR being able to break freely up the pitch every time we try to put them under pressure, that is.

 

[noodlehair]

Tbh think if Rooney or RVP had shown more willingness to come shorter for the ball and try and create we'd have gotten through more. QPR are playing very compact and without someone who's gonna go down the outside and get in behind we need someone who can thread a pass at the edge of the box and that should come mainly from one of rooney or rvp but neither are doing it well atm.

Why is it the forwards fault that the midfield can't do it's own job?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Cleverley or Anderson would have the legs to actually move past one of the midfielders with a bit of pace or a 1-2. Scholes hasn't got it anymore, Fletcher is... I dunno.

 

[The Neviller]

Sorry, but I counted 10 before I posted that...and then he played another one while I was posting it, and then another two almost immediately afterwards...so try watching instead of relying on some unidentified stats website

Care to explain what having Scholes on the pitch ahead of Anderson or Cleverley has achieved in this half? Apart from 0 clear cut chances and QPR being able to break freely up the pitch every time we try to put them under pressure, that is.

Couldn't agree more. The midfield pairing you talk about showed exactly how to create goalscoring chances midweek.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

Sorry, but I counted 10 before I posted that..QUOTE]

Well then you're imagining things because not only am I watching but I also have access to unidentified stats websites to confirm or disprove my opinion.