Unfortunately the manager of the team can't seem to accept or see it either. Even though he sits there watching every single one of our games.
This is the part that I find most worrying.
Fergie's obsession with picking old players in midfield
- Thread starter noodlehair
- Start date
This is the part that I find most worrying.
Shh, you'll have posts questioning your age. And whether you know football any better than SAF.
Yawn. Boring. There is obviously, a bit of a difference in calibre between the worst team in the league, and the league champions. Where a different starting lineup would be required.
Although obviously you were trolling, because you'd be stupid if you genuinely thought that would be the case.
Please for the sake of Utd,Scholes and Giggs should retire as quick as possible.
We started with Scholes, Giggs and Park in the title decider in April. Just saying....
To be honest I can't decide whether you're trolling or just genuinely stupid.
The two midfielders the posters are crying out for here played the dead rubber CL game at Galatasaray where there was absolutely no need to start either of them if they are considered important players. Against QPR we had Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie both on the pitch for the entire 90 minutes; even at 3-1 up, Fergie brought Danny Welbeck off.
Well, whichever way you want to look at it from, it comes down to deploying the same unworkable system week in week out and not being able to see the glaringly obvious problems...namely the lack of any effective movement and acres of space for the opposition to breathe in and exploit.
I find it unbelievably and infuriatingly dumb.
He might be basing it on our bizarre starting line up the last time we played City at the Etihad.
This time round Park will probably still be stuck out on our right wing, wearing a QPR shirt.
As much as it pains me to say it, this. Love them both and everything they've done for us, legends the both of them. But they are clearly past it and are just holding back other players, and are a liability when they play in the league for us.
Well like I've said before I've thought clev/Ando should be starting more, don't disagree with that, I just think that the problems aren't just the midfield, the way we're getting our front four to attack really doesn't work for me atm.
How ironic. After you posting that I'd defend a weakened team against the league champions you ask whether I am stupid or trolling.
Look, it's quite simple. In fact it's common sense. When playing a shit team, that don't pose the same challenge as most other teams you can afford to play a team that isn't the best. That on paper could get a result. If that doesn't work, you can bring on better players in that position to secure a win, which we did.
I wonder what the Caf reaction would have been had we started Cleverley/Anderson and he injured himself and we were stuck with the midfield we played today for the foreseeable future. I'd put money on the response being that he wasn't needed, that he could have been a substitute because on paper any team we put out could get a result from QPR.
So ask me my opinion when we play City, and if we play the same team I'll agree with you that it's stupid considering it's common sense how much more of a threat City pose than QPR and the merits of playing a full strength team in that situation.
Against a shit team that can't buy a win though? Not so much.
And where are you getting this idea that Fergie thinks either Anderson or Cleverley are part of our best team from?How ironic. After you posting that I'd defend a weakened team against the league champions you ask whether I am stupid or trolling.
Look, it's quite simple. In fact it's common sense. When playing a shit team, that don't pose the same challenge as most other teams you can afford to play a team that isn't the best. That on paper could get a result. If that doesn't work, you can bring on better players in that position to secure a win, which we did.
I wonder what the Caf reaction would have been had we started Cleverley/Anderson and he injured himself and we were stuck with the midfield we played today for the foreseeable future. I'd put money on the response being that he wasn't needed, that he could have been a substitute because on paper any team we put out could get a result from QPR.
Was the midweek game against Galatasaray more important than either of our last two league games? (one of which we didn't come back to win, by the way)
If so, how come he played Ando and Cleverley, but then stuck all the reserves alongside them? Has he gone mental?
Oh. My. God.How ironic. After you posting that I'd defend a weakened team against the league champions you ask whether I am stupid or trolling.
Look, it's quite simple. In fact it's common sense. When playing a shit team, that don't pose the same challenge as most other teams you can afford to play a team that isn't the best. That on paper could get a result. If that doesn't work, you can bring on better players in that position to secure a win, which we did.
I wonder what the Caf reaction would have been had we started Cleverley/Anderson and he injured himself and we were stuck with the midfield we played today for the foreseeable future. I'd put money on the response being that he wasn't needed, that he could have been a substitute because on paper any team we put out could get a result from QPR.
We played Wayne fecking Rooney and Robin fecking van Persie against the league's shittest team. We played Cleverley and Anderson against GALATASARAY where they weren't needed AT ALL because we had already WON the fecking CL group. What if they injured themselves there? IN A TOTALLY MEANINGLESS GAME? Not in a league game where three points were still at stake but in a totally, completely, utterly irrelevant game?
Seriously, you can't be THIS stupid to not understand this. You're just deliberately ignoring the point to seem more of a top red.
So, to put it into clear terms: we played our TWO MOST IMPORTANT PLAYERS against the league's shittest team. Didn't play two young midfielders who, however, got selected in the second string team in a dead rubber. How does that equate to resting them for more important games?
If it was up to me I'd probably play Powell ahead of Scholes/Giggs at the moment. At the very least we need to freshen them up a bit for the end of the season because they're playing well below what they're capable of.
I would hazard a guess that this giving young players rather than seasoned veterans European experience is a great thing to do. Especially when the result is irrelevant.
Exactly. Zarlak's point of playing a bad team against a bad team doesn't hold water when it's been the norm rather than something we pull for against the shitty teams/less significant games. Anderson has started ONE league game.
Yeah. We gave European experience to younger players in a game where the result was irrelevant. Fancy that eh?
It's amazing how much you seem to rate QPR from your posts to think that we need to play our best midfield options there. Our forward department is fantastic. Our midfield is not. Would it not be common sense when playing a weaker area in a team such as midfield in a game we shouldn't really need them on paper, to make up for it in other areas? I.e attack?
He's going to ignore that. We're just saving Anderson for important games. He might start in the FA Cup 3rd round if we draw a League One side.
Giving them "European experience", my arse. Anderson - as it has been pointed out in another thread - started a Champions League final. Scored a penalty in the shootout of another one. He sure will benefit from a dead rubber group game.
How about last week at Norwich then? Was that ok too because they're the bottom team in the league and we won the game anyway?
We were saving them for the CL game to give them valuable experience!
You so don't get this noodle.
We should have won that by just shuffling our backsides left and right. We're Manchester United. Even if we shackle ourselves by the tactics/selections, we should be winning those.
I don't think Anderson is a part of our set-up for the most important games and he most definitely should be, this is the worrying bit for me.
That team was good on paper, But the Valencia, and Young was terribly off form, and Fergie hesitated until late to change anything.
So bring it up on those occasions then, and I'll agree with you. It's just my personal opinion, god forbid me having one that against QPR he shouldn't have been needed on paper. Yet he was, on the day and we brought him on and we won the game. Hip hip hooray.
It's funny that Sioriac is having some kind of palpitations when talking to me, but I'm not going to apologise for having an opinion that a weakened team could take points from QPR.
It will worry me too if we line up like this against any team like City, Liverpool and our most important games. I'll be the first to say so.
When it seems to have little to do with the fixtures in question and we keep on doing it, how does it make a difference if someone brings it up today or last weekend? If the two are mutually exclusive then I don't see why someone shouldn't bring it up.
This conversation with noodle began in a thread where we were talking about todays game. He brought me up in this thread that I hadn't even posted in, and it's carried on from there.
We did do it against Liverpool...and the last time we played City, and in some of our most important games, such as the ones we lost to Spurs and Norwich this season.
If it was something that suddenly cropped up today no one would be complaining all that much about it.
Ye. It's sad. We should risk losing points to rest 'better' players when one of them hasn't featured in any of our big matches this season.
I think that's pretty arrogant tbf, don't get me wrong, our team should have enough depth that we're winning games whilst using our squad but to say that we could pick anyone and win because 'we're Manchester United' is to do a disservice to how good some of these lesser teams can be.
We clearly can't do what you said, because we lost, and we deserved to, because we picked a team that wasn't good enough and played in that manner.
I think if Fletcher and Ando started today, there wouldn't be so many complaints. Continue on spitting out hypotheticals rather than observing what we've seen for some time now.How ironic. After you posting that I'd defend a weakened team against the league champions you ask whether I am stupid or trolling.
Look, it's quite simple. In fact it's common sense. When playing a shit team, that don't pose the same challenge as most other teams you can afford to play a team that isn't the best. That on paper could get a result. If that doesn't work, you can bring on better players in that position to secure a win, which we did.
I wonder what the Caf reaction would have been had we started Cleverley/Anderson and he injured himself and we were stuck with the midfield we played today for the foreseeable future. I'd put money on the response being that he wasn't needed, that he could have been a substitute because on paper any team we put out could get a result from QPR.
Yes. We've made bizarre selections every season but I've never gone on about it like I have this season because this season it's been another piece of a growing trend.
You need to find your sarcasm detector, quick
The team we played against Norwich was good enough to win but didn't give us a great shot. Like I said on the day, it was like shooting yourself in the foot before racing a much slower, fatter opponent.
They played very poor so far and in our best games, they didnt play. No other player seems to have so much goodwill or would be picked if out of form.
We maybe dont have an exceptional midfield but Cleverley, Anderson and Carrick (at least two of them) should be picked whenever possible
No, there wouldn't. It's the "two CM's who can't run" that annoys me. Obviously it would be better if Giggs or Scholes started in 3 man midfields, but if you're picking a two man midfield, make sure one is mobile. It worked when Scholes was at his playmaking peak in 06 but it's not going to now.
Of course there wouldn't have been so many complaints. Of course there wouldn't. But I don't think the club really give a shit. Their job is to get 3 points, which they did. They tried to get 3 points without having to use certain players and it didn't work, so they changed it and it worked.
The point is there wasn't a cast iron need to start that game with those players, because we won the game doing it a different way, comfortable in the knowledge that at any point they could just bring on players to make a difference that otherwise they might not have needed.
City, Liverpool, Spuds etc I agree it needed to be different. It just happens that against QPR I'm not so arsed about leaving a couple of players out of the starting line up and putting them on the bench instead.
Nor is anyone else. Anderson and Cleverley being rotated out of the first team for standalone games against the weaker sides is something that everyone is completely comfortable with. Squad rotation is easy to understand. You'll always get the matchday gimps that moan before every game that we don't play the perfect side but that's not what this is about. The issue is that they're not being rotated out of the first team, they're being rotated into it. Scholes has played more minutes than both Anderson and Cleverley* and we've played a fair spread of easy and difficult games so there's nothing to suggest they're being rested because they're not needed against the easy sides.
*In the league Scholes has played 497 minutes, Cleverley has played 471 minutes and Anderson has played 153.
I agree with you on that, but this all originated with me and noodle in the other thread because marjen and noodle were having a fit about the midfield that started today, and I wasn't that arsed thinking that it was fine to have them on the bench and play a weaker midfield against QPR.
The issue about other games and how they are being rotated throughout the season was and is completely separate to the discussion we were originally having. Which I agree with.
I mean come on folks. Is it really so hard to understand you risk losing against any team when you play a disjointed side? I don't care if you have the most talented bunch in the world, if you fail to play as a team you're going to get punished. They may bail you out with their moments of brilliance but it's going to catch up with you at some point.
This season we have picked some questionable midfield selections. The balance of our side has been pretty worrying and we've done it on numerous occasions. We are capable of playing a more balanced midfield yet for whatever reason, we just dont do it. I don't think Fergie is blind to our midfield issues. I think he feels with Giggs and Scholes quality, we can get away with it. People like Zarlak and co seem to see it the same way. Fair enough but for me it doesn't excuse picking a team that isn't balanced. It's going to struggle. Full stop. The last clean sheet we had was at Newcastle away. That was ages ago. We haven't been able to keep a clean sheet at home since I don't even know when.
But we should simply accept this because we've done enough with the results. Results don't tell you the fuller picture. That picture doesn't look promising until we pick more balanced lineups and have some consistency with our selections. I'm glad we are where we in the league and in the CL. I'm sure most fans are. At the same time, when you look at how we've performed, it's not hard to see why some are worried. I doubt we'd get away with such a performance in the CL. We're a better team than this but we have people who just default to looking at our results without realizing that if we don't pick it up this season, we might end up trophyless again.
The potential in this team is massive and it's ridiculous we're not actively trying to get the best out of it. What reason is there to rely on Giggs and Scholes? They still have a part to play but it's like Sir Alex is concerned if we only play Scholes as a sub, hes going to feck off again.
I've said it many times before but I'm not that concerned with how many trophies we win. I just want to see the United of old. We've only played good football in certain flashes of matches and in those moments we've mostly scored goals. Some posters expected us to wipe the floor with QPR with our starting lineup. I wonder what they're thinking now. It's just not good enough and although Fergie will get it right, I can't deny there is some part which wonders whether or not we'll continue to make the same mistakes.
This isn't because I expect Manchester United to win every match. It's not because I think we're going to play good football in every match. It's because I expect Manchester United to show some fecking desire no matter the circumstances. We don't start games with any intensity. The only two games this happened was Newcastle and Chelsea. Both were away games. Is it too much to ask the same in our home matches? Today, we had an insipid 45 minutes and our patient play gave the impression we'd somehow magically open up the opposition. It makes for exciting matches when we finally correct the team but we're likely to lose more matches if we continue in this vein.
This season we have picked some questionable midfield selections. The balance of our side has been pretty worrying and we've done it on numerous occasions. We are capable of playing a more balanced midfield yet for whatever reason, we just dont do it. I don't think Fergie is blind to our midfield issues. I think he feels with Giggs and Scholes quality, we can get away with it. People like Zarlak and co seem to see it the same way. Fair enough but for me it doesn't excuse picking a team that isn't balanced. It's going to struggle. Full stop. The last clean sheet we had was at Newcastle away. That was ages ago. We haven't been able to keep a clean sheet at home since I don't even know when.
But we should simply accept this because we've done enough with the results. Results don't tell you the fuller picture. That picture doesn't look promising until we pick more balanced lineups and have some consistency with our selections. I'm glad we are where we in the league and in the CL. I'm sure most fans are. At the same time, when you look at how we've performed, it's not hard to see why some are worried. I doubt we'd get away with such a performance in the CL. We're a better team than this but we have people who just default to looking at our results without realizing that if we don't pick it up this season, we might end up trophyless again.
The potential in this team is massive and it's ridiculous we're not actively trying to get the best out of it. What reason is there to rely on Giggs and Scholes? They still have a part to play but it's like Sir Alex is concerned if we only play Scholes as a sub, hes going to feck off again.
I've said it many times before but I'm not that concerned with how many trophies we win. I just want to see the United of old. We've only played good football in certain flashes of matches and in those moments we've mostly scored goals. Some posters expected us to wipe the floor with QPR with our starting lineup. I wonder what they're thinking now. It's just not good enough and although Fergie will get it right, I can't deny there is some part which wonders whether or not we'll continue to make the same mistakes.
This isn't because I expect Manchester United to win every match. It's not because I think we're going to play good football in every match. It's because I expect Manchester United to show some fecking desire no matter the circumstances. We don't start games with any intensity. The only two games this happened was Newcastle and Chelsea. Both were away games. Is it too much to ask the same in our home matches? Today, we had an insipid 45 minutes and our patient play gave the impression we'd somehow magically open up the opposition. It makes for exciting matches when we finally correct the team but we're likely to lose more matches if we continue in this vein.
Have to say my gripe is mostly with how we play rather than who we play. Of course who we play has a big impact on how we play but it's not all there is to it. I think Cleverley, despite being good this season, has become a little more laborious in possession this season as compared to when he broke through and did things more instinctively and played a lot more first time passes. Maybe things like this have to do with who we partner him with. I don't know. But my MAIN problem with this United team is that they are simply too dull to watch. Today, when Anderson came on, watching United became fun all of a sudden. Was lovely
Yes but the reason they were annoyed was because Anderson and Cleverley have been consistently overlooked (in favour of inferior players). If it wasn't an ongoing thing then they wouldn't have been annoyed in the first place. All three of your opinions on what our best midfield is and how our squad should be rotated are practically identical, they've just been presented in completely different ways.