Yeah, they made a really good job of it in my view 
e-petition to release the govt Hillsborough files
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Wonderful news. Hope the cnut gets bankrupted.
Kelvin MacKenzie, the former editor of the Sun, faces being sued for malfeasance over his newspaper's coverage of the Hillsborough football disaster.
Lawyers have indicated that they will issue a civil claim against the 66-year-old whose front-page story, headlined "The Truth", gave credence to a smear campaign and cover-up orchestrated by police in the wake of the tragedy, in which 96 people died. Although MacKenzie offered "profuse apologies" last September after the report of the Hillsborough Independent Panel exposed the article's allegations as wholly unfounded, lawyers for the families also accuse him of adopting a different approach privately.
One lawyer for the Hillsborough Families Support Group said that despite public displays of contrition by the individuals and groups implicated in the 1989 disaster, the reaction to the panel's damning report was disappointing.
He said: "We have written to all these people asking what their proposals are, and none of them, none of them, have said: 'Look, can we talk in order to find out how we can take responsibility for what we did?'
"It's not just Kelvin MacKenzie – the South Yorkshire police should be coming forward to take responsibility, so should the FA, so should Sheffield Wednesday [at whose ground the game was staged]. It's not enough just to say we paid damages, all of which were tiny amounts, and not to take responsibility now." Families received payouts as low as £3,500 for the deaths of loved ones, sums later dwarfed by settlements to policemen, who were awarded up to £330,000 after suffering post-traumatic stress from witnessing the crush on the stadium terracing.
A meeting at Liverpool's Anfield Road ground last Sunday, attended by many families of the victims, heard details of the civil claims that will be levelled at individuals and organisations involved in the cover-up. One of the targets is MacKenzie, whose newspaper falsely alleged that drunken fans urinated on police who were resuscitating the dying and picked the pockets of the dead.
MacKenzie did not issue an unequivocal apology in the 23 years until the panel report prompted David Cameron to condemn the "despicable untruths" in the Sun story. Lawyers – who will meet tomorrow to discuss their next steps – believe MacKenzie is guilty of malfeasance, which is legally defined as intentional conduct that is wrongful. They say they do not have to prove he knew the material was not true, simply that "he was recklessly indifferent as to whether it was true or not".
The families are very keen to press ahead with civil claims, even before fresh inquests into the deaths begin. The original accidental death verdicts were quashed by the high court in December.
Part of their action will include damages claims against South Yorkshire police following the emergence of new medical evidence that shows that most of those who died suffered and did not die quickly, as had been initially contested.
Trevor Hicks, the chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, who lost two teenage daughters in the disaster, launched a legal action in 1992 to determine whether compensation was payable for the pain and suffering of those who died.
At the time, South Yorkshire police argued that there was no pre-death suffering because the then available medical evidence indicated that victims would have lost consciousness within seconds before they died.
It is now established that the courts' decision to agree with South Yorkshire police was based on inaccurate information, and that 58 of the dead might have been saved had the authorities reacted differently.
Meanwhile, the Independent Police Complaints Commission has begun recruiting a team of up to 100 to work on the criminal inquiry into police corruption surrounding Hillsborough.
It is also setting up an independent "challenge panel" which will advise the investigations and the Crown Prosecution Service as it weighs evidence against officers. A source said that the panel had yet to encounter any obstruction in its search for the disclosure of fresh evidence, adding: "So far, everybody has been helpful." .
A spokesman for the Football Association said it would not comment because it had not been issued with an official civil claim. Neither South Yorkshire police nor MacKenzie replied to requests for a response.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/16/hillsborough-families-sue-kelvin-mackenzie
Kelvin MacKenzie, the former editor of the Sun, faces being sued for malfeasance over his newspaper's coverage of the Hillsborough football disaster.
Lawyers have indicated that they will issue a civil claim against the 66-year-old whose front-page story, headlined "The Truth", gave credence to a smear campaign and cover-up orchestrated by police in the wake of the tragedy, in which 96 people died. Although MacKenzie offered "profuse apologies" last September after the report of the Hillsborough Independent Panel exposed the article's allegations as wholly unfounded, lawyers for the families also accuse him of adopting a different approach privately.
One lawyer for the Hillsborough Families Support Group said that despite public displays of contrition by the individuals and groups implicated in the 1989 disaster, the reaction to the panel's damning report was disappointing.
He said: "We have written to all these people asking what their proposals are, and none of them, none of them, have said: 'Look, can we talk in order to find out how we can take responsibility for what we did?'
"It's not just Kelvin MacKenzie – the South Yorkshire police should be coming forward to take responsibility, so should the FA, so should Sheffield Wednesday [at whose ground the game was staged]. It's not enough just to say we paid damages, all of which were tiny amounts, and not to take responsibility now." Families received payouts as low as £3,500 for the deaths of loved ones, sums later dwarfed by settlements to policemen, who were awarded up to £330,000 after suffering post-traumatic stress from witnessing the crush on the stadium terracing.
A meeting at Liverpool's Anfield Road ground last Sunday, attended by many families of the victims, heard details of the civil claims that will be levelled at individuals and organisations involved in the cover-up. One of the targets is MacKenzie, whose newspaper falsely alleged that drunken fans urinated on police who were resuscitating the dying and picked the pockets of the dead.
MacKenzie did not issue an unequivocal apology in the 23 years until the panel report prompted David Cameron to condemn the "despicable untruths" in the Sun story. Lawyers – who will meet tomorrow to discuss their next steps – believe MacKenzie is guilty of malfeasance, which is legally defined as intentional conduct that is wrongful. They say they do not have to prove he knew the material was not true, simply that "he was recklessly indifferent as to whether it was true or not".
The families are very keen to press ahead with civil claims, even before fresh inquests into the deaths begin. The original accidental death verdicts were quashed by the high court in December.
Part of their action will include damages claims against South Yorkshire police following the emergence of new medical evidence that shows that most of those who died suffered and did not die quickly, as had been initially contested.
Trevor Hicks, the chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, who lost two teenage daughters in the disaster, launched a legal action in 1992 to determine whether compensation was payable for the pain and suffering of those who died.
At the time, South Yorkshire police argued that there was no pre-death suffering because the then available medical evidence indicated that victims would have lost consciousness within seconds before they died.
It is now established that the courts' decision to agree with South Yorkshire police was based on inaccurate information, and that 58 of the dead might have been saved had the authorities reacted differently.
Meanwhile, the Independent Police Complaints Commission has begun recruiting a team of up to 100 to work on the criminal inquiry into police corruption surrounding Hillsborough.
It is also setting up an independent "challenge panel" which will advise the investigations and the Crown Prosecution Service as it weighs evidence against officers. A source said that the panel had yet to encounter any obstruction in its search for the disclosure of fresh evidence, adding: "So far, everybody has been helpful." .
A spokesman for the Football Association said it would not comment because it had not been issued with an official civil claim. Neither South Yorkshire police nor MacKenzie replied to requests for a response.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/16/hillsborough-families-sue-kelvin-mackenzie
I don't really see what they're going to achieve from this, personally. I mean, there's clearly a lot of resentment for the man, which is easy to side with, but I don't see how this is going to lead to him being successfully sued.
Just to get him on the stand and see him squirm will be very cathartic, I'm sure, win or lose.
In the news again. Going after Norman Bettison.
Will be interesting to see what the IPCC come out with however as he is no longer serving not sure what weight it holds.
Strip him of whatever titles he has if guilty but the talk of his pension is a bit far fetched I think.
Will be interesting to see what the IPCC come out with however as he is no longer serving not sure what weight it holds.
Strip him of whatever titles he has if guilty but the talk of his pension is a bit far fetched I think.
From a BBC Hillsborough documentary shown last night:
Disgusting.
Charming man, Sir Bernard. Look at the choice of words in that letter. It's almost cartoonish, isn't it? He's at Monty Burns' level, this character - stealing candy from kids for kicks, I shouldn't be surprised.
What a total dick
I guess the truth might well be uncomfortable if one sits on it for a quarter of a century.
In a perverse sort of way it's people like Ingham that helped us carry on for as long as we did. Having doors continually slammed in your face does weaken the resolve. But every now & then some gobshite would surface to say something inflammatory, & 'bingo', it was like oxygen to a cause that seemed doomed to failure on so many occasions.
That letter is almost beyond belief.
Not only does it show a horrible person but it also stinks of an arrogant view that he was untouchable.
To write that when he knew the truth of it was exactly what the Liverpool fans were claiming.... Dear me..
Not only does it show a horrible person but it also stinks of an arrogant view that he was untouchable.
To write that when he knew the truth of it was exactly what the Liverpool fans were claiming.... Dear me..
Panorama special on BBC1 now, lots of previously unseen footage.
Watching it now, didn't think it could get worse, but this footage, mostly from the BBC own camera's is horrifying. The fact that South Yorkshire Police got away with this.
The lies the South Yorkshire Police fed to the press were disgusting. Just to save their own skins.
Believe me I hate the scouse with a passion, it was indoctrinated into me over the years from my dad and grandad.
Hillsborough is a fecking disgrace what them poor families have been through and the cover up. I'm angry watching it, going to a football game and not coming home.
I hope they get some speedy justice and closure, its dragged on long enough.
We all hate scousers as football fans, but they are also human being like us. That day they were treated like animals. Back then all teams, including ours had their fair share of hooligans. That could have been our fans. Poor Anne Williams, who recently died, her son might have been saved, and certainly didn't die from accidental death. That was one hell of a mother who battled to the end for her son.
Absolutely horrific viewing. Hope someday these families get the justice they deserve. JFT96
It is so sad because they were let down by everyone.
With you 100% DT I take my lad to United games and cant imagine the pain, anger and grief. Horrific.
If they could cover up Hillsborough, what else could they have covered up? Scary to think.
More to the point, what mistakes have the police ever taken responsibility for? This is what they do on a daily basis only on a larger and tragic scale.
In a way it's almost a necessity. It would have been better for the country if Hillsborough had been the fault of unruly football supporters. That's what the police decided, that's what the government decided, that's what Kelvin MacKenzie decided.
That the police were responsible for 96 deaths is a far more uncomfortable truth.
In a way it's almost a necessity. It would have been better for the country if Hillsborough had been the fault of unruly football supporters. That's what the police decided, that's what the government decided, that's what Kelvin MacKenzie decided.
That the police were responsible for 96 deaths is a far more uncomfortable truth.
15 minutes before kick-off, the MOTD cameras zoomed in on the empty terracing just to the right of the over-crowded pen. John Motson even commented on it. Me & my 2 mates were standing pretty much in that area. At roughly the same time, one of my mates, Jimmy, was sat down on the steps reading the match programme. Having made our way out of the central-pen 30 minutes earlier because it was really uncomfortable, we remarked how people were daft to stay in there because of the conditions.
Even now, I still can't believe how senior police officers could have fecked-up so badly. It wasn't just one mistake that lead to so many deaths, it was a whole catalogue of errors where all it took was just one person to use a bit of common-sense, & 96 people would have returned home safely to their loved ones, & threads like this would never have materialised.
Someone commented on here back in September that such a cover-up could never happen again. He's so wrong. The establishment is, & always will be, a powerful organisation made up of self-serving individuals who's main aim, first & foremost, is self-preservation. That's never going change. & neither will their propensity to happily shift the blame, so long as it protects their nice lifestyle, & big, fat pensions.....David Duckenfield is living proof of this.
Even now, I still can't believe how senior police officers could have fecked-up so badly. It wasn't just one mistake that lead to so many deaths, it was a whole catalogue of errors where all it took was just one person to use a bit of common-sense, & 96 people would have returned home safely to their loved ones, & threads like this would never have materialised.
Someone commented on here back in September that such a cover-up could never happen again. He's so wrong. The establishment is, & always will be, a powerful organisation made up of self-serving individuals who's main aim, first & foremost, is self-preservation. That's never going change. & neither will their propensity to happily shift the blame, so long as it protects their nice lifestyle, & big, fat pensions.....David Duckenfield is living proof of this.
A good point made by RedIssue's twitter account IMO.
A different era, a different time, thank God - it was easy to shift the blame to the fans, not only were fans treated like scum at away and neutral "grounds" ( I won't call them stadia as they were, in many cases just cattle pens ) and in many instances fans behaved like scum too.....so that would have been the back-drop to the cover up, fans had plenty of "previous".
But viewing the footage shown on Panorama last night, some of the statements made by witnesses at the time ,on TV, it seemed the cover up was so easy in the face of many people actually baring witness to some events that were easily dismissed.
Yes, there weren't as many vehicles for social media and inter-action in 1989, even mobile phones were a relatively new phenomenon and none would have had cameras, but those responsible for dereliction of duty and gross misconduct at the SYP probably could not believe their luck in how they were able to wriggle out of paying the penalty for their actions ( and lack of ). Obviously they'd have had the political powers on board due to their co-operation during the miners' strike.
What those responsible at the SYP will hopefully have had to live with though, is that they will have seen the anguish of those parents and relatives of the deceased, many of them very young victims too, and the continued fight for the truth , and if they've any conscience at all, they'd have felt very uncomfortable about their part in the evil cover up, falsifying of statements and denial of valid witness statements at the inquests.
Some of those responsible should have faced trial and probable custodial sentences as a result of their devious actions.
But viewing the footage shown on Panorama last night, some of the statements made by witnesses at the time ,on TV, it seemed the cover up was so easy in the face of many people actually baring witness to some events that were easily dismissed.
Yes, there weren't as many vehicles for social media and inter-action in 1989, even mobile phones were a relatively new phenomenon and none would have had cameras, but those responsible for dereliction of duty and gross misconduct at the SYP probably could not believe their luck in how they were able to wriggle out of paying the penalty for their actions ( and lack of ). Obviously they'd have had the political powers on board due to their co-operation during the miners' strike.
What those responsible at the SYP will hopefully have had to live with though, is that they will have seen the anguish of those parents and relatives of the deceased, many of them very young victims too, and the continued fight for the truth , and if they've any conscience at all, they'd have felt very uncomfortable about their part in the evil cover up, falsifying of statements and denial of valid witness statements at the inquests.
Some of those responsible should have faced trial and probable custodial sentences as a result of their devious actions.
Get a grip
Of what?
I got the impression that the Police on the ground were well aware of what was going on & said so in their statements, which were then amended to protect the mistakes made by those in overall charge of policing on the day.
Of what you're saying instead of writing utter tosh.
Sad that it has taken +20 years for all of this to come out.
And sickening how so many have worked so hard to keep the blame away from themselves.
And sickening how so many have worked so hard to keep the blame away from themselves.
Two replies from you and I'm still none the wiser as to what your problem is.
Basically the opening generation in the first paragraph.
Unless I've misinterpreted it, however, don't think I have.
Generalisation? That's fair enough. It wasn't my intention to accuse every single police officer of being corrupt. That would be disproven in the case of Hillsborough when many officers there gave honest statements only to have them altered by their 'superiors'.
It's just my belief that the second part of that equation is the norm. This came through in John Motson's commentary shown on Panorama last night. They didn't waste a single minute putting their lie out there.
My issue was with the insinuation that the Police never admit mistakes and cover things up on a daily basis.
Just watched 30 for 30 Hillborough on Netflix...quite good..first documentary I've watched on the event...both family members and officers who were there that day are interviewed.....shocking the lengths the powers that be went through....one lie after another seemingly starting with Duckenfield making his statement to Graham Kelly telling him the Pool supporters broke down a gate and stormed their way through. Disgusting.
http://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/hearings/
I know most of you won't be interested, but here are the transcripts of today's hearings at the inquests.
I know most of you won't be interested, but here are the transcripts of today's hearings at the inquests.
Why do you think that? This thread if nothing else shows the unity that exists on this issue - and rightly so.
Just when you think the whole incident and particularly the parties in control couldn't look worse, there always seems to be more uncovered. To hear confirmation of senior figures in the police were influencing lower-ranking officers on their accounts of what happened in the aftermath is infuriating to consider. So many people in positions of power and trust with very dirty hands in this
It's clear that from the start the narrative was going to be that drunken Liverpool fans caused this. I hope the mainstream media report the findings. However, I think the Rochdale child abuse story might overtake it in the next few days.
South Yorkshire Police, eh?
South Yorkshire Police, eh?
Rotherham, sorry.