Your team/tactics vs Bayern

[Glanville95]

Certain players are automatic inclusions due to their workrate, ability or a specialised asset like offering pace, penetration and an outlet. It's simply a matter of building the team around those certain players.

I'd say de Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Carrick, Welbeck and Rooney are the six players that simply have to start at all costs - injuries permitting - and then it's just filling in the gaps.

de Gea
Jones - Smalling - Evans - Rafael
Fletcher - Carrick - Giggs
Nani - Rooney - Welbeck

Subs: Lindegaard, Vidic, Fletcher, Valencia, Januzaj, Kagawa, Hernandez
​

We're at home first leg, which puts the impetus on us to somewhat attack and secure a positive result, as playing for a 0-0 and riding on a score draw away from home is suicide, but we still have to be cautious and maintain our shape and defensive solidity.

That front three compensates for what may be perceived for a lack of workrate for Nani - although I'm of the opinion he has just as high a workrate as Valencia and Young - with Welbeck and Rooney's defensive contributions, but still possesses a goal threat and ingenuity. Valencia along with Welbeck and Rooney would be too pragmatic, at least Nani offers some spontaneity and flair, even if he isn't reliable.

Welbeck would nominally play as a left-sided forward with more freedom to incisive, penetrative runs beyond the defence. He's had a lot of joy in that respect for England and with us against Olympiakos and it makes a huge difference to his game than merely playing left wing. Of course, that will also be dependent on Bayern, we will be penned back for the majority of the game, so he will have no choice but to play deep - especially with Lahm and Robben - but he won't be restricted when we attack.

 

[Stookie]

I think we have to go super defensive. Try and not concede at home and then play the same away and hopefully score from a set piece. If we try and outplay BM we could end up getting beat the same as when we tried it against Barca in the Rome final when Ronnie tried to take on the whole team on his own.

 

[NoLogo]

Let's play 5-4-1 and hope we can get a counter or corner goal.

 

[Glanville95]

I think we have to go super defensive. Try and not concede at home and then play the same away and hopefully score from a set piece. If we try and outplay BM we could end up getting beat the same as when we tried it against Barca in the Rome final when Ronnie tried to take on the whole team on his own.

It's nothing to do with outplaying them, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Just that Moyes needs to make certain bold selections, like playing a flair player in Nani or even Januzaj at the expense of a pragmatic option like Young or Valencia. Kagawa is another, it might actually be a wiser move to play him at the expense of a third deep midfielder, as at least we would have more chance of working ourselves out of our half when Bayern inevitably have spells of dominance camped in their final third, than simply letting them suffocate us.

When Moyes brought on Young against Olympiakos, it was a pragmatic and defensive-minded move on Moyes' part, but it meant we surrendered possession to easily and gifted the ball back to them which resulted in chances. That type of move if actually more risky. It's just certain team selections, not tactics. Everyone knows we have to play a certain way against Bayern.

 

[TheNewEra]

It's nothing to do with outplaying them, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. Just that Moyes needs to make certain bold selections, like playing a flair player in Nani or even Januzaj at the expense of a pragmatic option like Young or Valencia. Kagawa is another, it might actually be a wiser move to play him at the expense of a third deep midfielder, as at least we would have more chance of working ourselves out of our half when Bayern inevitably have spells of dominance camped in their final third, than simply letting them suffocate us.

When Moyes brought on Young against Olympiakos, it was a pragmatic and defensive-minded move on Moyes' part, but it meant we surrendered possession to easily and gifted the ball back to them which resulted in chances. That type of move if actually more risky. It's just certain team selections, not tactics. Everyone knows we have to play a certain way against Bayern.

United need to mirror the performance of 2 legs against Barcelona in 2008 pretty much.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I think we have to go super defensive. Try and not concede at home and then play the same away and hopefully score from a set piece. If we try and outplay BM we could end up getting beat the same as when we tried it against Barca in the Rome final when Ronnie tried to take on the whole team on his own.

I see the logic given the quality differential, but we're just not very good at executing that park the bus tactic. Has it ever really worked for us bar the Barca CL semi-final in 2008? It needs some level of counter-attacking threat too, and we don't have alot of pace in our attack, although I guess Welbeck could provide that whilst still offering the defensive solidity.

I don't have any idea how we should approach the match really...Evans ahead of Buttner at LB is a must for me if he's fit. Beyond that, we surely need a three man midfield (Carrick/Fellaini/Giggs would be my preference), but I really want Kagawa to start to give us some semblance of fluidity in attack. If I had to pick the team, it'd probably be

DDG
Rafael--Jones--Smalling--Evans
-------Fellaini--Carrick---Giggs---
---Welbeck-------------------Kagawa--
--------------Rooney--------------

with Welback offering as much width as he can and trying to exploit any space behind Alaba, and Rooney and Giggs working the left wing as much as they can to allow Kagawa time on the ball infield.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think we have to go super defensive. Try and not concede at home and then play the same away and hopefully score from a set piece. If we try and outplay BM we could end up getting beat the same as when we tried it against Barca in the Rome final when Ronnie tried to take on the whole team on his own.

I think we have to first and foremost crowd the midfield like we did today. We won't be able to deal with pep's sides doing what fergie did by trying to stretch the play, which left us woefully outnumbered and exposed in the middle of the park.

 

[::sonny::]

De gea

Rafael jones smalling evans

Valencia fellaini carrick giggs young

Rooney

 

[::sonny::]

Let's play 5-4-1 and hope we can get a counter or corner goal.

0-0, 0-0 and hope at shoot out

 

[ravelston]

De Gea

Rafael Smalling Evans Buttner

Fellaini Giggs Jones

Nani Rooney Welbeck

I don't think we can afford to play Carrick in his current form (except maybe as CB if Evans or Smalling are unavailable). And I really think we need Jones in midfield. If we wanted to be more defensive we could put Fletcher in there instead of Giggs, but then you lose the only real creativity in the team. I can't see leaving Fellaini out - he's consistently been one of our best two players since he came back - we don't have the strength in midfield without him. There doesn't seem to be a reasonable alternative to Buttner - and he's going to be no worse than Evra on Robben (and probably much better). Having said that, I suppose if Vidic was fit Evans could slide across to LB although my preference would be to leave it alone.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

De Gea

Rafael Smalling Evans Buttner

Fellaini Giggs Jones

Nani Rooney Welbeck

I don't think we can afford to play Carrick in his current form (except maybe as CB if Evans or Smalling are unavailable). And I really think we need Jones in midfield. If we wanted to be more defensive we could put Fletcher in there instead of Giggs, but then you lose the only real creativity in the team. I can't see leaving Fellaini out - he's consistently been one of our best two players since he came back - we don't have the strength in midfield without him. There doesn't seem to be a reasonable alternative to Buttner - and he's going to be no worse than Evra on Robben (and probably much better). Having said that, I suppose if Vidic was fit Evans could slide across to LB although my preference would be to leave it alone.

Buttner is not going to be better than Evra. Evra is dodgy but at least has 10 years top level experience, buttner can't even hold the offside line

 

[ravelston]

Buttner is not going to be better than Evra. Evra is dodgy but at least has 10 years top level experience, buttner can't even hold the offside line

With any luck Buttner learned from that mistake. Evra's experience doesn't seem to be helping his legs this season. He doesn't get back and when he is back he seems unable to stop a cross. I'm not suggesting that either is optimal - I'm just not panicked by the idea of playing Buttner instead of Evra.

If Nani isn't fit I could see going with Hernandez up front:

Welbeck Hernandez Rooney

Most of the time it's going to be 4-5-1 anyway with Rooney and Welbeck back alongside the fullbacks.

 

[Mister Ed]

--------------DDG--------------
Smalling---Jones---Evans-----Rafael
------Fellaini--Carrick--Giggs-----
Valencia------Rooney--------Welbeck

 

[Havak]

Been thinking that maybe three at the back isn't too bad of an idea...

de Gea
Smalling Vidic Jones
Valencia Carrick Giggs Fellaini Rafael
Rooney
Welbeck​

Moyes would probably play Rafael on the right and Buttner on the left, which would probably work fine as well. I'm just struggling to see him leaving Valencia and Giggs out..

 

[ravelston]

--------------DDG--------------
Smalling---Jones---Evans-----Rafael
------Fellaini--Carrick--Giggs-----
Valencia------Rooney--------Welbeck

--------------DDG--------------
Rafael---Smalling---Carrick---Evans
------Fellaini---Giggs---Jones
Valencia------Rooney--------Welbeck

Same players, might work better. I'd still prefer Nani or Hernandez to Valencia (he is so one footed it makes us totally predictable).

 

[Ish]

Been thinking that maybe three at the back isn't too bad of an idea...

de Gea
Smalling Vidic Jones
Valencia Carrick Giggs Fellani Rafael
Rooney
Welbeck​

Moyes would probably play Rafael on the right and Buttner on the left, which would probably work fine as well. I'm just struggling to see him leaving Valencia and Giggs out..

I'd be very surprised if Moyes tried a formation and tactics we've never done before, in this Bayern match.

We'll probably go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 (both very similar I suppose).

I'd start with:

---------------DDG
Smalling---Evans---Vidic----Rafael
---------Carrick--Jones
----------Giggs/Kagawa
Valencia-----------------------Welbeck
------------Rooney

*I'd love to somehow play Welbeck upfront - because I really think his pace and power can cause Dante problems, but I don't want to see Rooney at #10 because he tends to lose focus about his defensive responsibilities in that role - and against the class in Bayern's midfield, we'll get murdered if we're outnumbered in there.

*Hopefully Nani's fit to come on for Valencia

 

[ravelston]

Smalling---Evans---Vidic----Rafael

This is pretty bizarre - three of them playing out of position. Why not

Rafael---Smalling---Vidic---Evans

At least that's only one out of position. And Evans is decent at left back.

 

[Rozay]

Again, does anyone even know when Smalling is back?

 

[gooDevil]

welbeck has to play, that's all i'm thinking about.

I agree and expect Moyes to start him up top with the first match at home, and switch him to the left for the trip to Munich if we can take a lead there.

 

[Skills]

If Van Persie is out:

I'm pretty sure Valencia has played at RCM for Ecuador. Might go horribly wrong though, think we tried to get Valencia to do something similar in the second CL final against Barca but he kept on giving away fouls.

 

[NoLogo]

Just play Fellaini instead of Valencia and make him bully Bayern's small midfielders a bit.

 

[TheNewEra]

going to need to emulate Space Jam the movie to win the game, steal Bayerns ability.

 

[Infra-red]

Let's play 5-4-1 and hope we can get a counter or corner goal.

Spoiler

 

[dmode]

We'll get beaten easily with any tactics we choose... we're just not to Bayern's level... hope Moyes proves me wrong... sincerely I don't think we can beat Bayern.

 

[Escobar]

We'll get beaten easily with any tactics we choose... we're just not to Bayern's level... hope Moyes proves me wrong... sincerely I don't think we can beat Bayern.

Definitely not with that attitude

 

[dmode]

Definitely not with that attitude

Yeah I know... since we always learn it the hard way... if we beat Bayern by some miracle... we will face Real for semi final... then if we beat Real by some miracle we will face Barça for the final


How can I not panic?

 

[sincher]

We have to be pretty honest about our underdog status in this game and set out to counter.

I would go for Buttner at left back as would be worried about Evans' lack of pace, plus he's not actually fit right now. Considered Jones at RB and Rafael at LB but I think it would just be a bit dysfunctional.

About time we put some faith in Fellaini in Europe - it's these types of games he could actually make more of a contribution in I think. I would consider playing Fletcher for sheer leadership but he will have to really push himself to keep pace.

Assume Van Persie won't make it.

--------------------DDG----------------------
Rafael-----Jones----------Vidic---------Buttner
------Carrick-----Fletcher----Fellaini-----------
Valencia------------------------------Welbeck
------------------Rooney----------------------

That is in theory at least a team with a very high work rate, and a bit of pace on the break. That's about the best chance we have.

Cases for Giggs in various places, and for Smalling instead of Rafael (not playing well this season), swapping position with Jones - but not sure we could carry both Giggs and Fletcher, and Giggs is not primarily a possession-keeper. Vidic or Ferdinand a bit of a toss-up at the moment.

If we can get through a decent portion of the game, Kagawa or Giggs could come on for Fletcher and start attacking more.

Team to play in the second leg will depend on how the first leg goes...

 

[SER19]

we have to play to OUR strengths in the first leg and not obsess over bayern. we wont be going through if we dont win at old trafford i think.

as much as we fear ribery and robben on the wings will they offer much defensively if we have rafael and januzaj and buttner and welbeck pinning them back in their half. that combined with rooney hopefully supported by kagawa against dante and boateng. winning at home is the main thing be it 1-0 or 4-3. having something to protect in munich is key. id like to see jones or fellaini in the middle though getting right on top of their creative central players. and then in the away leg play like we did in madrid last year. ride our luck a little and have welbeck and jones doing very important jobs.

edit: if nani gets about 70 minutes under his belt vs villa, id play him.

 

[gza the genius]

DDG
Rafael Smalling Jones Evans
Fletcher Carrick Fellaini
Kagawa
Rooney Welbeck

I would like to see something like that with Welbeck and Kagawa covering the wings when necessary. Basically dropping in to a 451 when defending and then giving Kagawa and Welbeck freedom to roam when attacking. The three midfielders will hopefully give us some stability while Welbeck, Kagawa and Rooney should all be able to help defensively as well and give us a good platform to counter on.

I imagine Valencia will be in for Kagawa though, and one of the midfielders will make way for Giggs or Young.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

We have to be pretty honest about our underdog status in this game and set out to counter.

I would go for Buttner at left back as would be worried about Evans' lack of pace, plus he's not actually fit right now. Considered Jones at RB and Rafael at LB but I think it would just be a bit dysfunctional.

About time we put some faith in Fellaini in Europe - it's these types of games he could actually make more of a contribution in I think. I would consider playing Fletcher for sheer leadership but he will have to really push himself to keep pace.

Assume Van Persie won't make it.

--------------------DDG----------------------
Rafael-----Jones----------Vidic---------Buttner
------Carrick-----Fletcher----Fellaini-----------
Valencia------------------------------Welbeck
------------------Rooney----------------------

That is in theory at least a team with a very high work rate, and a bit of pace on the break. That's about the best chance we have.

Cases for Giggs in various places, and for Smalling instead of Rafael (not playing well this season), swapping position with Jones - but not sure we could carry both Giggs and Fletcher, and Giggs is not primarily a possession-keeper. Vidic or Ferdinand a bit of a toss-up at the moment.

If we can get through a decent portion of the game, Kagawa or Giggs could come on for Fletcher and start attacking more.

Team to play in the second leg will depend on how the first leg goes...

This.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

We have to be pretty honest about our underdog status in this game and set out to counter.

I would go for Buttner at left back as would be worried about Evans' lack of pace, plus he's not actually fit right now. Considered Jones at RB and Rafael at LB but I think it would just be a bit dysfunctional.

About time we put some faith in Fellaini in Europe - it's these types of games he could actually make more of a contribution in I think. I would consider playing Fletcher for sheer leadership but he will have to really push himself to keep pace.

Assume Van Persie won't make it.

--------------------DDG----------------------
Rafael-----Jones----------Vidic---------Buttner
------Carrick-----Fletcher----Fellaini-----------
Valencia------------------------------Welbeck
------------------Rooney----------------------

That is in theory at least a team with a very high work rate, and a bit of pace on the break. That's about the best chance we have.

Cases for Giggs in various places, and for Smalling instead of Rafael (not playing well this season), swapping position with Jones - but not sure we could carry both Giggs and Fletcher, and Giggs is not primarily a possession-keeper. Vidic or Ferdinand a bit of a toss-up at the moment.

If we can get through a decent portion of the game, Kagawa or Giggs could come on for Fletcher and start attacking more.

Team to play in the second leg will depend on how the first leg goes...

I like this team

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

@sincher

I'd agree with the majority of that, But I'd play Jones in place of fletcher with Smalling taking up the CB spot, Perhaps move Fellaini with Jones so he can help out Buttner.

 

[Plugsy]

I'd go one up top (Rooney) four in midfield, four at the back and give Jones a free role to largely help Buttner out with Robben

 

[Rozay]

If Smalling/Evans are back, and we seem to not be against the idea of playing Buttner, then I think we have to go Jones central midfield tonight.

I'd play Rafael, Smalling, Vidic and Buttner at the back, as I think Evans starting would be too soon. I'd then have Carrick, Jones and Shinji centrally, Rooney up top, and Welbeck and Giggs either side. I'm almost certain Valencia will start, and I suppose I could see the merit in him instead of Giggs.

 

[Kaos]

Just play Fellaini instead of Valencia and make him bully Bayern's small midfielders a bit.

Fellaini will get sent off against the antics of Ribery and Robben, won't survive a half. Rafael too I fear.

 

[Hannibal]

Fellaini will get sent off against the antics of Ribery and Robben, won't survive a half. Rafael too I fear.

I cannot believe Moyes didn't mention this in his presser to at least put about 20% of doubt in the referee's mind whenever Robben goes to ground. Moyes is out of his depth - he doesn't use the presser to his advantage. He just rambles on & on like a Tasmanian devil.

I fear Robben's antics than the entire Bayern attack. Robben will get 2-3 players booked, sent off or even win a dodgy penalty. He's the biggest diver on the planet. This is what we have to deal with tonight.

 

[JunesBoy]

Just play Fellaini instead of Valencia and make him bully Bayern's small midfielders a bit.

Nice idea. Him taking a red card will give us something to blame for being knocked out..

 

[Blackwidow]

I cannot believe Moyes didn't mention this in his presser to at least put about 20% of doubt in the referee's mind whenever Robben goes to ground. Moyes is out of his depth - he doesn't use the presser to his advantage. He just rambles on & on like a Tasmanian devil.

I fear Robben's antics than the entire Bayern attack. Robben will get 2-3 players booked, sent off or even win a dodgy penalty. He's the biggest diver on the planet. This is what we have to deal with tonight.

Neymar is playing his first CL season - Reus his second. Robben his fifth...

 

[NoLogo]

Fellaini will get sent off against the antics of Ribery and Robben, won't survive a half. Rafael too I fear.

Nice idea. Him taking a red card will give us something to blame for being knocked out..

Yeah because that was a really serious suggestion and would totally help us beat Bayern. More an expression of the fact that we can't do much more then hope for a bad Bayern day and some luck.

 

[SiRed]

Mark them tight
Close them down quickly
press high
pass the ball
shoot
score
we win