You know you could wait until the transfer window starts before making that judgement?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Should we also wait for United games to start before giving an opinion on them? Perhaps we should close the game threads till the game actually starts or ends.
Transfer window mean shit these days as clubs are able to make deals with players months before summer break.
All I hear is yapping in between writing some pointless letters to fans about feckin nothing. Moyes is a candidate to become worse than Fox News.
I would actually be fine with that. Back to the original point it does not matter what he says at this point when it comes to transfers. It is pretty pointless to assume we won't make any signings in the summer based off quotes he is making now.
Come on Jurgen Klopp,
Do better than the flop.
We'll go wild, wild, wild!
We'll go wild, wild, wild!
Do better than the flop.
We'll go wild, wild, wild!
We'll go wild, wild, wild!
This is a very good point. Players and clubs can agree pre-contracts, its only the registrations that cannot be transferred before the window opens.
United announced the Hernandez signing mid-spring, months after the January transfer window and months before the guy was eligible to play for us.
If Woodward and Moyes were serious about getting deals done before the World Cup they'd be done.
It is based on many more things than just quotes. The fact that they are now backpedaling confirms me it for me.
Who are these world class players who can't wait to sign for us?
Couldn't agree more with this, have thought similar for a while now.
Our two most successful periods have come under charismatic world class football managers (who coincidentally were both scottish) who both stayed for a long time because of their success.
We tried to replicate busby's tenure when he retired which didn't work, it seems we are making the same mistake, the managerial model we have chosen relies on us having a world class manager who will stay at the club for a long time, we probably will (as we done before) give inadequate managers more time than they deserve hoping they will somehow replicate SAF despite quite clearly not being anywhere near as good a manager, because as you say we will be seduced by the idea of longevity.
It worked with Busby & Ferguson because they were both exceptional men/managers who could run a top club from top to bottom, and had the force of personality to mould the club in their image. But Busby was appointed in 1945 we had to wait 41 years before appointing another manager in his class in Ferguson, in between these two i suspect we appointed managers based on the wrong criteria of trying to replicate Busby. In my opinion we have made the same mistake with Moyes instead of going after the best possible coach we could get. Hiring managers on the basis they might stay 10-20 years is going to significantly decrease the pool of managers you can hire from, and very few of those if any will be world class coaches.
Its possible we could waste another 20-30 years trying to replicate Ferguson by appointing people who we think might become top managers who will stay a long time. Its the equivalent of putting all of our eggs in one managerial basket, we are at the other extreme of clubs like chelsea or spurs who sack managers too soon left,right & centre, we on the other hand have given managers far too much time in the past and i fear we might continue this trend not only with Moyes but also with whoever follows Moyes.
He's working hard but can't guarantee something solid. In other words - So far he got nothing.
Woodward ? You know... at least he's banging countless sponsorship deals to save stability of this club. He's no Gill but he's actually doing something substantial and there is evidence for it.
I just wonder how many great players actually are willing join this club, because from David's own words there's plenty of them wanting to join United.
Truly nerve-wracking transfer window for us ahead.
Welbeck now wanting out apparently.
You're right. He sets us up not to lose. Against teams like Bayern and Barca, most teams would expect to play more defensively. But we didn't play like that against Madrid last season. more cautious maybe but not parking the bus.
Does Moyes know who he is managing??? Has he ever seen us play before last summer? The players don't really have much faith in him, but I don't think Moyes has much faith in them either as an attacking unit, specially in big games. Or he just doesn't have a clue how to get them playing anywhere near their potential. Or both. That's why he has to go.
So true.I doubt he's determined to leave his beloved club but he got right to feel insecure about the future.
There is is an over emphasis on signing new players as the "fix", yes there are players needed, however there is no doubt in my mind the biggest issue is the players not playing for moyes, closely followed by his not stamping an attacking identity to our game as standard, if those 2 things don't become apparent from the off next season, it really doesn't matter who we sign, no excuses left, challenging at the top of the league coming up to the end of the calendar year or get rid, that's speaking as a fan who wants what's best for us given our recent history and high standards, but there is the fear that the glazer model might be very different, top 4 is good enough to keep us relevant to them and prospective sponsors, was moyes targeted because he signs "adequate" players for cheap, is there a real desire amongst the owners to have us win trophies, the summer window will speak volumes, in fact the period before the world cup starts will be defining
Long story short, "transition" "players needed" all the excuses have been used, be challenging for the league and look competitive against the top sides in the first ten games of next season or get rid, simple as that
He cannot continue into next season. We need to get someone new in ASAP and start again.
United are 24 points worse and Everton are 13 points better. That's astonishing. If Moyes gives us a repeat drop, we'll be in the thick of the relegation battle.
And the problem is it is highly unlikely for Moyes to turn this around
His track record against top 10 teams is for over a decade, not just 50 games with us
I am in junior - middle management in a 80000 people company. The one thing that gets drilled into our heads is not to dither when considering harsh decisions. We all have an obligation to the success of our projects. If it is not working - a) introspect b) change strategy by incorporating lessons c) get a rapid action team in place specifically to deal with code red situations d) if all else fails change the management and let the code red specialists pull the project out of the muck, stabilize it, and then move them on so that they are free to tackle the next burning issue e) get a new team in place ensuring the lessons of post implementation review are discussed during new team set up
Which is why I knew long before that we have to cut our losses with Moyes. I could yet be wrong in judging the situation but the point is that I have taken an educated judgement based on a) past track record b) potential of the candidate c) current performance. None of these go for him. I'd rather move to swiftly correct things (at the risk of being wrong) than dither on the fence (at the certainty of seeing damage being done)
Those of you who are yet to make up your minds are either a) believe strongly that he will fix things b) have a lenient breaking point up to which you can tolerate poor performances c) just picking strawman arguments citing external factors like a weak team and/or unavailability of better options
A and b are valid options, c is not
I do not stick with an incompetent team lead just because a better candidate is not available. Even if that is the case I would either get the project manager to take hands on responsibilities on an interim basis or promote high potential candidate to the vacant position
I focus on stemming the rot first, and that means I have to cut off the infected part
But that's just me in a corporate results driven environment with obligations to clients and shareholders and where it is simply perform or perish. Obviously our club is not that
Here's the article by the former Everton director that was quoted in the Guardian article #07 posted above. Interesting reading.
Moyes: Driven by detail
One of the finest-ever journalistic lines was delivered some 25 years ago – the actual author is lost in the mists of time – with the immortal: “Why do people take an instant dislike to Kenny Dalglish? It simply saves time.”Funny, clever and, like so many written gems, rather nasty. The fact that it was also wholly inaccurate – Dalglish being, beneath a sarcastic and almost dismissive demeanour, a really witty and interesting man – is now irrelevant.
I am looking backwards rather than forwards because on countless occasions over the past two months I have been asked to play the grand sage imbued of the sort of wisdom which only time and experience can provide.
That’s to say the oft-repeated question has been: “How will David Moyes do at Manchester United? “
Like everyone else on the outside looking in, all I have been able to do is provide an honest – if at times a somewhat deliberately vague – opinion. Having worked with Moyes for a decade at Everton it is reasonable to assume that I know him better than those journalists who have, of late, been invited to pen the predictable honeymoon-period pieces by sports editors who if they can’t see a crisis will attempt to manufacture one.
I reference that famous journalistic intro simply because during his tenure at Old Trafford – be it short or be it lengthy - Moyes will, unquestionably, upset and irritate far more people than he will amuse and beguile. The initial convivial smiles will disappear to be replaced by the more familiar pale-faced grimaces which so characterised his years on Merseyside
It is his way – just as it was Dalglish’s way; neither man “ does “ fun when in a professional setting. The fact that neither of these exceptionally fine, modern-day managers has any time at all for the media is, of course, regrettable but come season’s end next May, Moyes will be judged by the number of trophies his team has won and not by the number of writers/broadcasters he has charmed over lunches in the finest eateries Manchester and London can offer.
Everything is Detail
Moyes simply doesn’t enjoy “social”, he is a man who seemingly cannot see the point of a conversation or a meeting unless the subject is (a) football or (b) the betterment of his senior squad. To him, everything else is mere detail.
In the ten years we worked for the same cause inside Goodison Park, I had lunch with Moyes just once – on his first day in office. Thereafter, any suggestions that, perhaps, we might break bread together was met with the sort of incredulous, wide-eyed stare which screamed the question, “what for??”. In the end those of us who were intrigued by the possibility of spending some leisure time in his company simply gave up.
This single-mindedness will, of course, serve United very well – the irony being that Moyes’ greatest strength, his stubbornness and his unswerving pragmatism, may well prove to be his greatest weakness.
At Everton, he built teams which were designed to avoid defeat – often ( indeed, too often for comfort ) he stood accused of regarding narrow defeats at the hands of his club’s perceived betters – United, Arsenal, Chelsea et al – as akin to triumphs.
After an admittedly demanding opening Premier League sequence which has seen his new charges held by Chelsea and over-turned by both Liverpool and Manchester City, many are wondering if Moyes did, perhaps, spend a little too long down the East-Lancs Road at Goodison…..wondering if the “Everton mentality” is so deeply ingrained that he will struggle to adapt to life at a club where winning is not regarded as a bonus but is demanded on a quite dizzying basis.
Moyes’ fate will almost certainly be decided by his ability – or lack of it – within a transfer market which in the past has, quite predictably, provided his finest and darkest hours.
He often bought both well and prudently – Tim Cahill, Phil Jagielka, Phil Neville, Nigel Martyn, Thomas Gravesen, Kevin Campbell – but I was once shown a list of the players who were offered to Moyes but who he subsequently declined to take a chance on. It would be wrong to go into detail here – but it was one hell of a line-up.
Football management is now no place for those who demand either time or patience – ask Paulo di Canio – but, it would seem, Moyes has been employed by men who may well grant him both.
If the third necessary ingredient is added to the mix – a dramatic level of funding – Moyes, I suspect, will do a fine job……he deserves to simply because he did not for one second flinch when invited to replace the irreplaceable.
amen
Quite rightly
Quite rightly? What the f**k has it got to do with him? He'd be better advised to look after his own affairs. I hope we royally hump his lot who are only where they are because of loan players.
Moyes does seem to have an excuse for everything. Shameful for a United Manager
To be fair, Moyes is the one who started it by saying the only reason Martinez was doing well was because of the club he inherited. He also said that the Everton players could manage themselves. That was disrespectful. And it is quite funny coming from someone who has failed miserably with the Premier League Champions that he inherited.
Yes, it's applicable in our situation because Moyes has to "stem the rot and cut off the infected part" of the squad. This would still need to be done whether it were Moyes or anyone else in charge. Older players leaving/retiring, underperforming players requiring replacement, glaring omissions in midfield etc. The squad that won the league last year has run its course and is breaking up naturally. It has to be reinvented.
I know, how dare he manage the club.
Yeah like Moyes did when he tried to take all the credit for Martinez' good start at Everton some time back.
Oh great, you have also been Moysified.
The club that won the title, naturally turned to shit in a couple of months? Great observation.
"Everything is Detail
Moyes simply doesn’t enjoy “social”, he is a man who seemingly cannot see the point of a conversation or a meeting unless the subject is (a) football or (b) the betterment of his senior squad. To him, everything else is mere detail.
In the ten years we worked for the same cause inside Goodison Park, I had lunch with Moyes just once – on his first day in office. Thereafter, any suggestions that, perhaps, we might break bread together was met with the sort of incredulous, wide-eyed stare which screamed the question, “what for??”. In the end those of us who were intrigued by the possibility of spending some leisure time in his company simply gave up.
This single-mindedness will, of course, serve United very well – the irony being that Moyes’ greatest strength, his stubbornness and his unswerving pragmatism, may well prove to be his greatest weakness.
At Everton, he built teams which were designed to avoid defeat – often ( indeed, too often for comfort ) he stood accused of regarding narrow defeats at the hands of his club’s perceived betters – United, Arsenal, Chelsea et al – as akin to triumphs.
After an admittedly demanding opening Premier League sequence which has seen his new charges held by Chelsea and over-turned by both Liverpool and Manchester City, many are wondering if Moyes did, perhaps, spend a little too long down the East-Lancs Road at Goodison…..wondering if the “Everton mentality” is so deeply ingrained that he will struggle to adapt to life at a club where winning is not regarded as a bonus but is demanded on a quite dizzying basis.
Moyes’ fate will almost certainly be decided by his ability – or lack of it – within a transfer market which in the past has, quite predictably, provided his finest and darkest hours.
He often bought both well and prudently – Tim Cahill, Phil Jagielka, Phil Neville, Nigel Martyn, Thomas Gravesen, Kevin Campbell – but I was once shown a list of the players who were offered to Moyes but who he subsequently declined to take a chance on. It would be wrong to go into detail here – but it was one hell of a line-up.
Football management is now no place for those who demand either time or patience – ask Paulo di Canio – but, it would seem, Moyes has been employed by men who may well grant him both.
If the third necessary ingredient is added to the mix – a dramatic level of funding – Moyes, I suspect, will do a fine job……he deserves to simply because he did not for one second flinch when invited to replace the irreplaceable."
From everything I have read by Fergie or of Fergie he was someone who always had his finger on the pulse of everything and the main tool witb being able to do that is simply to mix with everyone. Fergie knew the names of all the kids and their parents in the Utd academy's. One former Utd Academy player works here in NZ as a youth coach. He told me that even 10 years after leaving Utd where he had a short stint Fergie still remembered him and his father.
Moyes cant hope to succeed at an organisation as big as utd if he doesnt connect and communicate with people on more than just a work level.
Moyes simply doesn’t enjoy “social”, he is a man who seemingly cannot see the point of a conversation or a meeting unless the subject is (a) football or (b) the betterment of his senior squad. To him, everything else is mere detail.
In the ten years we worked for the same cause inside Goodison Park, I had lunch with Moyes just once – on his first day in office. Thereafter, any suggestions that, perhaps, we might break bread together was met with the sort of incredulous, wide-eyed stare which screamed the question, “what for??”. In the end those of us who were intrigued by the possibility of spending some leisure time in his company simply gave up.
This single-mindedness will, of course, serve United very well – the irony being that Moyes’ greatest strength, his stubbornness and his unswerving pragmatism, may well prove to be his greatest weakness.
At Everton, he built teams which were designed to avoid defeat – often ( indeed, too often for comfort ) he stood accused of regarding narrow defeats at the hands of his club’s perceived betters – United, Arsenal, Chelsea et al – as akin to triumphs.
After an admittedly demanding opening Premier League sequence which has seen his new charges held by Chelsea and over-turned by both Liverpool and Manchester City, many are wondering if Moyes did, perhaps, spend a little too long down the East-Lancs Road at Goodison…..wondering if the “Everton mentality” is so deeply ingrained that he will struggle to adapt to life at a club where winning is not regarded as a bonus but is demanded on a quite dizzying basis.
Moyes’ fate will almost certainly be decided by his ability – or lack of it – within a transfer market which in the past has, quite predictably, provided his finest and darkest hours.
He often bought both well and prudently – Tim Cahill, Phil Jagielka, Phil Neville, Nigel Martyn, Thomas Gravesen, Kevin Campbell – but I was once shown a list of the players who were offered to Moyes but who he subsequently declined to take a chance on. It would be wrong to go into detail here – but it was one hell of a line-up.
Football management is now no place for those who demand either time or patience – ask Paulo di Canio – but, it would seem, Moyes has been employed by men who may well grant him both.
If the third necessary ingredient is added to the mix – a dramatic level of funding – Moyes, I suspect, will do a fine job……he deserves to simply because he did not for one second flinch when invited to replace the irreplaceable."
From everything I have read by Fergie or of Fergie he was someone who always had his finger on the pulse of everything and the main tool witb being able to do that is simply to mix with everyone. Fergie knew the names of all the kids and their parents in the Utd academy's. One former Utd Academy player works here in NZ as a youth coach. He told me that even 10 years after leaving Utd where he had a short stint Fergie still remembered him and his father.
Moyes cant hope to succeed at an organisation as big as utd if he doesnt connect and communicate with people on more than just a work level.
This bit stands out for me.
Spot on. There is a reason why so many people inside the club(united) cried when he broke the news of his retirement. He connected with everyone.
And still, many people do not think Moyes has been the problem this season.
Guys, have we left some paragraphs for others to quote? We don't want people to feel left out.
Here we go again. Who said anything about it being turned to shit??
Do you deny that Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra and possibly Carrick, as he's 32 now, need replacing?
Do you deny that there are players in the squad who really aren't good enough?
Do you deny that we have been deficient in midfield for at least two seasons now?
Do you deny that any manager, Moyes or not, would have to address these matters?
Pressure comes with the job. In fact considering the low level of tolerance that some clubs have towards their managers you could argue Moyes has been getting off lightly.
There's been...Very little media criticism, backing from senior figures at the club. Even being applauded by the fans on the pitch at Old Trafford.
But...writing with my own thoughts.
I can put up with all dowdy press conferences
I can put up with all the dopey comments
I can even deal with negative football (I wanted Jose)
WHAT I CAN NOT DEAL WITH IS HIS IDIOTIC DITHERING...
(rant warning)
TACTICALLY
No set style of play
No set formation
No idea what his best 11 is
(We're 9 months into the season and one month away it from ending. FFS He should know these three by now. Could you imagine what would be said if Mourinho, Rodgers, Pellegrini were still piddling about figuring out their formations, tactics and selections at this stage. They'd be accused of "Not knowing what their doing.")
Says "We need midfielders!" then goes and bleedin' signs 2 players whose best position is the same as Rooney, Kagawa and potentially Januzaj...which then creates himself a problem...so now when everyones fit he'll resort back to playing his 2 signings out of position just to try and justify (to the board I think) his purchasing of them.
Inability to react and make effective changes during games
Just sits there. Rubs his finger on his bottom lip debating whether -to have a Cherry Bakewell or a Jam tart after his dinner-
Plays players out of position
Because in his mind Mata's the next Gareth Bale and Fellaini is the next Bryan Robson.
Plays players injured
Moysie logic = a player with one leg is better than one with two.
Plays players out of form
Because form is temporary...class is permanent...Step forward Ashley Young
To afraid to drop big players even if it allows the team a better overall balance.
Moyes says it works fine. Yep...and when a pigeon sh*ts on you its 'Good Luck" ..
His abysmal record of 3 wins in 15 against the top ten premier league teams this season. Not to mention his own fecking awful statistic of 43 games 0 wins against the top 4 away from home.
This suggests to me that he has so far...he has been tactically outwitted so many times...it's gotten to the point of embarrassment. Even bang average teams and managers are nailing us.
Although maybe it is understandable. Why? may u ask.
After the recent 3-0 drubbing at Stamford Bridge a leak comprising of Jose Mourinho's and David Moyes pre-match gameplans were published online..available for all compare and evaluate the difference between the 2 in tactical qualities.
...and remember Sir Bobby said "Mourinho's not a Man Utd manager" and says in Moyes "We've got the right man!"
(rant over
well, Mourinho... lol
Definitely, I never wanted Moyes at all but I'm surprised by how bad he's been. I expected us to float around in top 3/4 mediocrity like Arsenal under him.
Don't post bollocks. He finished 10th in his first season with essentially Sven's squad + Robinho.
The second season when he had a chance to spend money (but still nowhere near the squad United had when Fergie retired) he finished 5th. So yeah I do think he'd do better with United than 7th place.
He's managed to almost earn more points with Palace than Moyes has with United. Would I want him here? No, would he have us higher in the league than Moyes? Yes.Pulis.
No one denies that changes were inevitable. We just don't accept how bad things have to be before it happens. Nor do we believe those changes will make us as good as we can be.
Yet he's not advanced his ideas one iota in a decade. He still coaches prehistoric football
Care to explain?
- Status