Weighing in on these Cleverley posts, a lot of people want him to be given more time but I cant help but feel as we have given him numerous opportunities to show his pre 2013 form. Thinking back on last season (and I can't back this up with any evidence) but even Fellani had a better/more influential season then Clevs so I think we need to be ready to cut our loses with him and let both parties move on.
Manchester United vs AS Roma (Pre-season Friendly)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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Was in the pub...Didn't see the game. Two questions.
1. Can I get a summary?
2. Saw a vine of Roma's goal.....Who in God's name was that in goal???
1. Can I get a summary?
2. Saw a vine of Roma's goal.....Who in God's name was that in goal???
Thats the way i saw it, i saw a lot of positives in our play (apart from the defence which is too open in this formation imo).
You know with our opening fixtures, we really need to be looking at 5 out of 6 wins. That should me more than possible with the teams we are playing and its a lot harder for other teams when they are chasing the top spot.
Ben Amos.
A good test and a rather entertaining game. And after what we've been through last season a win, even in a friendly match, is welcome.
After a shaky start we found some rhythm and when this happened we showed some glimpses of what our attacking players can do with the ball. And we haven't seen RvP yet. Our whole season depends highly on how our front three will perform. Just remember how much Liverpool's last season depended on the fact that Rodgers got the best out of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling.
Another positive was James' performance. It looks like we will be ok at the LWB position. Smalling was also good and Herrera looks like he's been here for a long time. It also seems that Valencia and Rafael will be our options at the RB position.
On the other hand Cleverley failed to make any impact as a holding midfielder next to Herrera. The manager showed him what he thought of his performance when he brought him off, but Tom will get his chances mainly as a back up for Herrera. There's no need to be harsh on him, it was just a failed experiment in a friendly game.
The Young experiment at RB also didn't go well and Jones-Evans still don't look confident enough to lead the defense.
Still a long way from being ready for the PL but we're getting there :-)
After a shaky start we found some rhythm and when this happened we showed some glimpses of what our attacking players can do with the ball. And we haven't seen RvP yet. Our whole season depends highly on how our front three will perform. Just remember how much Liverpool's last season depended on the fact that Rodgers got the best out of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling.
Another positive was James' performance. It looks like we will be ok at the LWB position. Smalling was also good and Herrera looks like he's been here for a long time. It also seems that Valencia and Rafael will be our options at the RB position.
On the other hand Cleverley failed to make any impact as a holding midfielder next to Herrera. The manager showed him what he thought of his performance when he brought him off, but Tom will get his chances mainly as a back up for Herrera. There's no need to be harsh on him, it was just a failed experiment in a friendly game.
The Young experiment at RB also didn't go well and Jones-Evans still don't look confident enough to lead the defense.
Still a long way from being ready for the PL but we're getting there :-)
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We must've watched different games. Shaw was ok, James was ok. Neither contributed much going forward, neither was ever really beaten going back. Actually you really can't have been watching today, because Shaw gave the ball away once only. His problem was that he was marked so closely he was getting the ball with nowhere to go, and having to pass it straight back. (Except right at the end when we were higher up the pitch and he became a bit more dangerous). The exact same thing is true of James.
For me the system is working great in the central areas - less pressure on our CBs, more threat from the front three - but it's robbing us of any wide threat at all. The wingbacks are being marked out of the game because they're too deep to attack like wingers (receiving the ball high up the pitch so that if they can just get past one defender they're away) and too high to attack like fullbacks (receiving the ball far away from any opponents and picking up some speed and momentum before they ever have to beat a man). All the opposition winger has to do is sit on them, and they can't do anything.
That said, we're only two games in, and the wing-backs are the ones who have to change the way they play the most, so it would be mad to expect it to work already. I'm sure Van Gaal will tweak it until it works. But despite successes on some parts of the pitch it's not working in the wide areas at the moment. Even in a 7-0 thrashing of a much worse team we couldn't do anything down the wings, and that says a lot.
So, let's sell Shaw and Herrera then. Obviously not up to it! Jesus! Any player takes time to bed in. Some players come in and develop into Ronaldo, some just turn out to be Kleberson. Let's not start writing them off after 2 halves!
There were a number of players who didn't play well, and they were, sadly, the usual suspects. Cleverley, Nani, Young and Hernandez will all have to work really hard to convince van Gaal to keep them I suspect.
There were a number of players who didn't play well, and they were, sadly, the usual suspects. Cleverley, Nani, Young and Hernandez will all have to work really hard to convince van Gaal to keep them I suspect.
Don't really get the use of the 3-5-2 in the 2nd half with the players available. Yes I'm intrigued by the system for utilising the likes of Mata, Rooney and Welbeck in their favoured positions. Don't see the point of sticking to it for the 2nd half though when it means Young at wing-back, Lingard & Kagawa in CM, Nani as a No.10 and Shaw in an unfamiliar role.
This, before he picked up that nasty knee injury he looked almost certain to make it here, and hasn't been the same ever since unfortunately.
I think this 3-5-2 system needs a D-CM like De Jong next to Herrera. More balanced midfield and less problems for our 3 CB's.
I don't think anyone can argue with this, both wing back positions had average or poor games to be honest so its either Roma's formation that limited the wing backs or just inexperience of the players playing in the wing back roles.
Again, Shaw has played two preseason games coming off of an excellent campaign with Southhampton, Kagawa has played 1,5 underwhelming seasons in Manchester, where's the contradiction? Exactly, nowhere. People are once again overreacting to a solid preseason performance by Kagawa even though he hasn't impressed in the BPL while they're ready to call Shaw a bust based on two games after he played very well in the BPL.
Do you see the similarity? In both cases, the past is ignored while a couple of preseason games leads to conclusions.
Kagawa played 30 games and almost 2000 minutes last season, that's not enough games to prove yourself? The year before he still participated in 26 games and logged 1690 minutes, that's not enough time either?
And don't hit me with that newbie bulls***, if you're too emotionally attached to Kagawa, don't quote me.
Yep, same. Unfortunately he's less of a threat than the younger Wilson now, and needs to be shipped out. It's sad but you can't afford to be too sentimental about these things, he's still probably gifted enough to have a decent career elsewhere even without the pace.
Should definitely get De Jong and loose Cleverley. I missed the game but I can already guess by people's reaction that he didn't exactly impress
That's an overreaction. They didn't have good games, nobody's saying we shouldn't have bought them and nobody's writing them off. So what, it's totally fine for everyone to criticise Cleverley for a poor performance, but not a new signing? Young has actually performed very well in the last two games so if we sell him, it won't be because of his pre-season performances.
I don't want to be a dick but hopefully Amos is off now. He's 24, and already so much worse than Sam Johnstone. We all knew it before the game and we certainly know it afterwards. Johnstone was impressive and Amos hopeless.
Yes I hope he does well elsewhere but he's older than DDG and not 1/10 as good, Sam looks good so far
I hope Lingard is given a chance in his proper positions. CM is just never going to work.
Are you kidding me? This Blackett criticism is far from just.
Thanks mate, I put it on and fell asleep. Missed all the goals.
The only problem is that last season is, I would think, not a season by which we should judge any player. Hence the reason LVG wants to assess the players himself. There were few players last season who covered themselves in glory.
Highlights anyone, only put of work now.
Also how would you class our performance? Who impressed for us tonight and who let us down. Hoping Herrera showed us more reasons why he should start most games this season?
Also how would you class our performance? Who impressed for us tonight and who let us down. Hoping Herrera showed us more reasons why he should start most games this season?
Hypocrites, I, for one, wholeheartedly agree with you, it's fcucking laughable how he's being judged. It almost disgusts me. And that "go back to the newbs" response. What a condescending twit.
How far did Amos come off his line! Ridiculous. I don't like it.
It's understandable LVG wasn't happy with the performance, the first half of the first half was just us trying to take possesion and the whole second half was us trying to hold the scoreline. Ben amos made some nice saves, but the goal from half way line from Pjanic was just ridiculous, it was 100% the gk's fault. It was only a pre season friendly though, so I wouldn't make some harsh deductions out of it.
He was going to do 90 minutes and got subbed. I think that was a reflection of his contribution.
He does the passing to death and contributes little. Did little to press and gave the Roma midfield all the time in the world.
Overall, the team did not click like last game, and this is a reflection of the difference in quality of the opposition. Also the fact Roma play against this formation quite a lot so know how to constrain it. Roma should have been 2-0 up inside the first 2 minutes. Some of that can be attributed to the change in the back line. But it was pretty basic over the top or split two defenders.
Not sure that changes much for Amos.. Maybe he'll be 4th choice instead of 3rd choice keeper. No young keeper at united has much of a future here anyways for the next decade probably, De Gea has that spot down and will have it locked down for years unless he decides to leave one day, which I hope he doesn't.
I actually thought our defense held up pretty well despite some early scares, we didn't give them anything too clear cut. It's a new system so it's going to take any player time to get used to it as not many teams use it. I think with Evans as the CB and one of Smalling or Jones as the RCB it just requires LvG to settle on a LCB.
Check your PM
Zaha hasn't had his chance to impress yet.
For our second game back, it was really encouraging. Both teams were a bit sloppy with the ball, particularly long passes. I think the altitude may have affected that. It was pretty physically intense and technically scrappy from both teams for the first half hour. They started on the front foot but we slowly wrested control back and by the time Rooney scored we were in control and they were trying endless fruitless balls over the top for Destro.
Rooney's goal was fantastic, his pass for Mata's equally so, and Mata's finish was lovely too. Welbeck and Herrera (I think?) linked up nicely to win the penalty, which Rooney hammered home very confidently.
The second half was fairly shambolic in a general sort of way. Very 'pre-season'. For much of it we didn't have a single midfielder on the pitch, just loads of forwards. Roma scored twice but neither really came from good play - one was a brilliant shot from inside their own half catching Amos off guard, and the other was a very questionable penalty.
The formation is suiting our central defenders and forwards, but not our 'wing-backs', who are struggling to have an impact. We're attacking well through the middle but not at all down the flanks.
The overall play is already a massive improvement on last season. Crisp passing - sloppy at times tonight like Roma's but always at a good tempo - good movement, and incisive forward play.
Rooney was comfortably MOTM, Mata and Herrera good in flashes. Pretty much every CB who played was impressive, with Smalling really standing out, justified runner up MOTM I'd say. Johnstone was really impressive.
Cleverley didn't take his chance to impress. James was ok for a youngster but basically he, Shaw and Valencia didn't do anything much wrong or right between them. Young was eager, if a little ineffective. Amos was very poor. Nani was awful again.
I can see why Van Gaal wasn't that happy because the system didn't work perfectly and we didn't dominate the game, but he's not had to sit through the shit we produced under Moyes - compared to that, this was beautiful. And all in horribly taxing conditions.
Just home now and just caught a small bit of the first half with goals included. Rooney's strike was why he's a beast, Mata's goal, well were you really that surprised? most likely not because he's top quality (although it was offside?) and he penalty was the type of link up play clubs dream of! great finish too, mind.
Didn't catch the second half bar the highlights and it looked Amos was at fault for both, first one clearly bad placement although you cannot take away from the strike and second he gave away possession leading to the throw that followed to the goal, bit harsh that handball too though.
I was drinking while watching it so can't judge the game on highlights but from what I saw we were the better team but not by much. Will watch the entire game tomorrow and see if my view changes.
Few questions for those who watched the full game though.
1. How was our squad in the 352 in contrast to weaker opposition (LA)
2. How was Herrera in contrast to his world beating performance vs LA
3. How was Cleverly himself and as Captain.
Didn't catch the second half bar the highlights and it looked Amos was at fault for both, first one clearly bad placement although you cannot take away from the strike and second he gave away possession leading to the throw that followed to the goal, bit harsh that handball too though.
I was drinking while watching it so can't judge the game on highlights but from what I saw we were the better team but not by much. Will watch the entire game tomorrow and see if my view changes.
Few questions for those who watched the full game though.
1. How was our squad in the 352 in contrast to weaker opposition (LA)
2. How was Herrera in contrast to his world beating performance vs LA
3. How was Cleverly himself and as Captain.
Thanks mate for summing up the game. Still Havnt had time to watch the highlights. By the sounds of things it was encouraging as for a team that are adopting a completely new system we seem to be gelling quite well. Hopefully this increases the fluidity of our play.
One thing I would say is to give the Wing backs time , its a lot more demanding the just lb and requires more skill so they'll need time to adjust. Especially Shaw since he has only been introduced to the team. Overall im liking the start to the LVG era
Link to the match if you missed
How did Herrera in this game? Missed it damn it. Sorry for mis takes, writing this while I'm drunk.
Predicted 3-2. 
I thought he was good. Quick feet and thinking, misplaced some passes but also made his signature through balls a couple of times, has a lot of energy too. Comfortably our best midfielder today again.
any highlights?
Been really impressed with Michael Keane(nothing he could do about the penalty),most of all he's great with the ball and would say he's up there with Evans in terms of passing as well.
Could well get a shot this season.
Could well get a shot this season.
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