He was our most technically sound player aside from Welbeck and Ferdinand before he left. In recent years only Berbatov was more technical. The managers take blame because both Moyes and Fergie were too old school with their tactics. It worked for Fergie because the players believed him no matter what. Say what you want. but even Mata struggled because of Moyes tactics and he more than one stated where he prefers to play on the pitch. Mata looked almost clueless as a LW under Moyes, and while he did get some goals it doesn't cover the fact that he wasn't being used properly. The same applies to Kagawa.
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Has a Utd player that's done so little** for us been loved so much?
**(aside from the nice hat trick v the mighty Canaries)
**(aside from the nice hat trick v the mighty Canaries)
Mata has struggled as well since his signing. The only difference is he's scored some goals.
Its because we know the player is quality and hasn't been given much of a chance. Others should have been sold before him. Many others.
All our players have struggled apart from the goalie. I'd say no player has done better than Mata since he arrived.
Sad that it didn't work out for a player of obvious quality, but I'm kind of relieved that we've just drawn a line under it and moved on.
A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that he played a central role in a Dortmund team that played like many wants United to play.
Had high hopes for him as well when we signed him, but it never worked for a number of reasons. First of all, it seems that the plans Fergie had with him went out the window once RvP was available, and because of that Kagawa never got a long spell in his best position. On top of that, Kagawa was not a good enough (or "versatile enough", if you prefer) to work well in any other position. From the moment Mata arrived (and with Januzaj being talked up by the club) I assumed it was only a matter of time before Kagawa left. Great player when used the right way, and I have no doubts he'll show that again now he's back at Dortmund.
All the forward players will struggle if they are not getting any service. Is it any coincidence that Rooney, Mata and RvP look completely lost out there against teams that will be battling for mid table at best.
Yeah but Kagawa got 2 seasons here, Mata has only been here 6 months.
Right, but here's my thing, Mata has actually been vocal about the way he prefers to play on more than one occasion (under Moyes and after our goalless draw with Burnsley). Would you say its a matter of him not willing to adapt to a manager's tactics or would you say the manager is not using him the best way he can?
Yes. How many times did Klopp say we're not utilizing his skills well? How did you like him played as an out and out winger under Moyes? Forced to cross when he plays better when playing the ball to feet centrally with short intricate passing? He stood out in two games last season, playing his best position, more centrally, in the CL and against Newcastle in the league. Moyes himself said 'Shingi' has surprised me, didn't know he had it in him to influence a game (pretty much summed up what he said). Next game after that he played him on the wings again.
Also, good business for the vending machines.
because its clearly a "Us not him" situation. he's a brilliant little player who would do wonders to a side that can actually play football. we cant.
Good luck to him but it was clear he wasn't good enough.. His shooting was the worst I've ever seen from a United player and his playmaking abilities were over-rated.
BUT if he somehow goes back to his "world-class" mode in the Bundesliga, I'm willing to admit that he had something all along..
BUT if he somehow goes back to his "world-class" mode in the Bundesliga, I'm willing to admit that he had something all along..
He probably wanted to leave.
Louis van Gaal might have mentioned possible future plans and they could have involved 4-3-3 (point forward) with Rooney second striker and RVP up top so Mata drops to the bench, also Januzaj in a season or two would be competing for the role behind the striker if they buy quality on the wings.
Furthermore he may have stated there is also the possibility of him playing with the point backwards (E.g. Strootman and Herrera in front of a Carrick like player) depending on the availability in the transfer market.
All in all, he expects Kagawa to have strong competition for his position in the team. I would imagine he does not fit his profile for a winger, he would have likely told him this and so Kagawa might have decided he would be better off on the bench at Dortmund where there is a much better chance of him establishing himself.
Who knows, of course I am guessing here but at the age Kagawa is and the ability he seems to have he might want a lot of game time. He had the chance to join a club that is challenging both domestically and in Europe, a team that is far superior to United in this moment and probably will be at least for another 2 or 3 seasons.
It's possible actually a lot of the United squad would not get into the Dortmund first team so if he manages to do this then he has done well.
He was given plenty chances and in the end didn't cut it. Brilliant for Dortmund, average for United.
Its a bit strange how people are getting upset because Anderson, Cleverley etc are still here, well its quite simple Kagawa, Anderson, Cleverley, Young and Hernandez are all surplus to requirements and Kagawa was wanted and has moved on. The rest will follow.
Neither. His complaint yesterday was about Our defenders and midfielders not building up play on the ground. Unless you think Van Gaal asked the team to play long balls.
I don't think this is the last we see of Shinji in the Prem.
Klopp signed on until 2018, but if his squad keeps getting broken up and Bayern continue as expected to dominate, with Bayer and Schalke on their toes there could be a quick downfall for Dortmund. Klopp is loyal but he'll no doubt keep getting offers. Kagawa is young enough to rebuild his career and who knows what could happen.
If LVG's reign ends in 2017 the man I'd love in is Klopp. Maybe he'll bring Shinji back in and he'll be awesome to finish unsettled business.
Who am I kidding..it's so obvious the man in charge then will be Giggs.
Klopp signed on until 2018, but if his squad keeps getting broken up and Bayern continue as expected to dominate, with Bayer and Schalke on their toes there could be a quick downfall for Dortmund. Klopp is loyal but he'll no doubt keep getting offers. Kagawa is young enough to rebuild his career and who knows what could happen.
If LVG's reign ends in 2017 the man I'd love in is Klopp. Maybe he'll bring Shinji back in and he'll be awesome to finish unsettled business.
Who am I kidding..it's so obvious the man in charge then will be Giggs.
You don't follow German football that closely, do you?
Leverkusen does not have the financial power to challenge Dortmund.
Schalke is a mess right now.
Meanwhile Dortmund keeps growing every year. In terms of squad depth and display of force on the transfer market this window was a huge step ahead of Schalke, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg, even before they signed Kagawa. Klopp knew the situation when he extended his contract, he also said dozens of time that he's not the kind of guy who would break a contract.
To add some facts:
Schalkes turnover according to FML:
- 2011: €202m
- 2012: €175m
- 2013: €198m
- 2011: €143m
- 2012: €197m
- 2013: €256m
Leverkusen are somewhere in the region of €100m or even below that. Over the past 3 seaons Schalke have net spent around €15m and Leverkusen around €10m which is quite a bit lower than Dortmund's ~€50m.
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I like to think I do. Though since you are a German poster it'll be good if you elaborate. I'm guessing you think Dortmund will topple Bayern soon?
That's really just wishfull thinking. The bolded part is just a tired cliche that's not even close to being true. Dortmund have been very succesfull for four years now, selling four majorly important players in that timespan. Just look at how many other clubs with similar success had to sell. They even got two of those players back eventually. The chance of a major player being sold also grows smaller with each season seeing how Dortmund is constantly increasing wages, Watzke just recently said that the budget concerning wages will see a major increase in the next few years. Borussia also just made a huge sponsorship deal, effectively freeing the club from all the debt it once had. In addition to that the team has become a major player in the Champions League as the last two seasons have shown, they only barely missed out on pot one this season and will most likely be a seated team come next year if they make the quarters again, which doesn't seem unlikely. It's not like Leverkusen or Schalke (definitely not) are getting closer, the gap is growing wider instead.
Also get the thought of Klopp leaving Dortmund before his contract ends out of your head, Klopp keeps mentioning that he values contracts more than anything. There is also no way that the club will lose trust in him seeing how they renewed his contract during probably his hardest time at the club.
Best of luck Shinji, too bad it didn't work out.
To think we were complaining in the 12/13 season about our play style. Jesus those videos of us look alien compared to how we play now...
All the best to him. A player who I loved to watch, really gifted but just didn't work for a number of reasons. That's life, people have to move on and that's what has happened. Truly hope he finds his feet again in Germany.
Shinji 1 Gerrard 0
Shinji 1 Gerrard 0
No, but we clearly cemented our spot as Germany´s number two with this transfer window. I listed the Dortmund squad in the Bundesliga thread and what it shows is that the first heavy investments in ages gave Klopp the strongest team he ever had at his disposal.
The revenues will only grow further apart in the next years aswell. The investor deals a few weeks ago will allow us to pay off any remaining debt, which will save us a lot of money in terms of interest. Together with the improved sponsoring deals, which were connected with the before mentioned deals could alone bring 20+Mil. € more per year. On top of that the income in merchandising sees a clear increase in the last years, especially in Asia. There is also little left to invest in terms of infrastructure so the vast majority of the increased revenue will flow directly into the squad (wages or transfers).
Meanwhile Schalke is still burdened by around 180 Mil. € in debt and despite their talks about consolidation only made a profit of 500k in the last season.
The biggest difference between both clubs is still how they use their money, though. They still have a higher base wage bill than us, which seems baffling when you compare the quality of the squads.
Scholes on BTsport this evening: "Kagawa needed a 10 game run to show what he can do. Never given a chance, yet Rooney had 10 years."
Not the first time Scholes has taken a bat at Rooney. What's going on here?
And you're saying hes wrong?
Absolutely not. Scholes has spoken more sense in a few months as a pundit that Gary Neville has since he retired. I just wondered what the history is.
maybe that Rooney is just a money grabbing cnut and held the club twice to ransom?
Yes, in my opinion. Unless of course, being useful is keeping your head down while forever cutting in to your right to send in shit crosses, or whacking balls against fullbacks' shins.
Agree completely with Scholes. We seem to favor some players who are excused and back in the first eleven no matter how poor they play while some others are on the opposite end of the stick.
Valencia and Young keeps getting matches no matter what they do. They could basically set up a tent and start partying with some friends by the corner flag for the entire game and they'd be in the next game anyhow with full confidence.
Rooney and RVP are the same way in that they are fully trusted no matter how poor they play no matter how long.
Best of luck back at Dortmund, Shinji. At least you'll have CL football.
Well there's that for starters.
Did Scholes really say that? Whether it's true or not, Scholes will probably never run into Kagawa again whereas he'll be crossing paths with Rooney at some point. Should make things slightly awkward.I doubt Scholes gives a toss about that.
Scholes speaking the truth again.
Sad to see Shinji go. I personally think, given the very limited runs of games he had, he did well in the 4-2-3-1 system whether on the left or in the middle of the three. He always kept the game moving and, if he'd have been given a good run, I concur with Scholes- the goals and assists would have come. Giggs obviously appreciated Kagawa too- having brought him straight in to the side alongside some pacy players during his brief tenure as caretaker manager.
The ironic thing is that the clever, quick build up play that LVG demands and that we have been so obviously lacking in the last four games is exactly what Kagawa can give. The fact is that there was just nowhere to fit him in to LVG's 3-1-4-2 formation amongst the likes of the favoured RVP, Rooney and Mata. Yes, those three have shown themselves to be highly productive in the PL, but hardly of late eh...
The ironic thing is that the clever, quick build up play that LVG demands and that we have been so obviously lacking in the last four games is exactly what Kagawa can give. The fact is that there was just nowhere to fit him in to LVG's 3-1-4-2 formation amongst the likes of the favoured RVP, Rooney and Mata. Yes, those three have shown themselves to be highly productive in the PL, but hardly of late eh...
Didn't Scholes injure Rooney in training after the latter had made his announcement of not renewing his contract in 2011, questioning the quality of the side? Maybe that wasn't a coincidence.
Anyway, it's plain to see that Fergie's plans was for Van Persie and Kagawa to be starters before David "Yes, Wayne" Moyes came in.
I love Scholes so much. I feared he was going to disappear after he retired. Turns out he's the best and most honest pundit around!
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