Rezyuz
New Member
I think he would be an entrance against city if we were behind in the 80th min for Herrera, Rooney dropping to midfield.
What's wrong with his short passing game?It's not that RvP doesn't understand the triangles it's that he's too slow to provide the movement to execute their purpose within the attack, also Rooney might be able to score from deep but his short passing game is not suited to playing as a CM.
Those are completely different kind of players, much more alike RVP than Rooney.Rooney up top is vital just as Benzema and Costa are vital to their teams, high pressing, tireless workrate and plenty of movement.
Is it really that strange? I thought Ferguson bought RVP to play in front of Rooney.Are you really suggesting we should start next season with RvP as the #9 and Rooney in midfield?
We're only 8 months into an ambitious 3 year rebuild, the team is finally doing well now, especially considering the fact that a lot of the fit and in form players are not particularly suited to the style of play. That's gonna change the upcoming transfer windows I presume and the starting line up in would be much closer to ideal and quite different from the current one.
It's not very good, certainly not for the way LvG likes the midfield to play.What's wrong with his short passing game?
No they aren't, RvP has nowhere near the physical attributes or work ethic of Rooney, Benzema and Costa, he's a luxury striker.Those are completely different kind of players, much more alike RVP than Rooney.
Yes it is strange, Fergie had it in for Rooney after the first contract stand-off, he bought RvP and prioritized him as the #9 and started a second rift with Rooney. It's also strange because Rooney is not a CM and RvP will be 32 at the start of next season and is past his best by some way. Doing what you're suggesting would take us backwards not forwards. The only thing we should be doing regarding RvP is seeing which of the Italian and Turkish clubs are going to offer the most for him in the summer.Is it really that strange? I thought Ferguson bought RVP to play in front of Rooney.
He hasn't shifted his arse for the right pass all season long.Give him the right pass and he's capable of producing match winners, stick him on the bench
What's he done to you?He can piss off and sit on the bench or in the stands.
Nothing...Just don't want him starting against CityWhat's he done to you?
Then he is in trouble because his requirements for the short passing game aren't much different for a centre forward of his kind.It's not very good, certainly not for the way LvG likes the midfield to play.
I agree his skills and technique are more refined than Rooney's, Benzema's and Costa's.No they aren't, RvP has nowhere near the physical attributes or work ethic of Rooney, Benzema and Costa, he's a luxury striker.
That must have been a very long term rift then, because he hardly ever played Rooney up top in all those years.Yes it is strange, Fergie had it in for Rooney after the first contract stand-off, he bought RvP and prioritized him as the #9 and started a second rift with Rooney.
If RvP is past it another centre forward should be bought. If he's not good enough anymore that doesn't mean Rooney is good enough for that position in a United that is challenging for title's and cups. In 4-4-2 Rooney is the natural second striker, not the most forward one, in 4-3-3 that equals to CM.It's also strange because Rooney is not a CM and RvP will be 32 at the start of next season and is past his best by some way. Doing what you're suggesting would take us backwards not forwards. The only thing we should be doing regarding RvP is seeing which of the Italian and Turkish clubs are going to offer the most for him in the summer.
Sneijder is at GalatassarayFew rumours of him in talks with Fenerbache to link up with national teammates Sneijder and Kuyt.
And Kuyt retired from International football, so they are not technically teammates anymore. Also, he's rumoured to go back to Feyenoord at the end of the season.Few rumours of him in talks with Fenerbache to link up with national teammates Sneijder and Kuyt.
Well at least we have finally hit the crux of all this, I thought you were just a big RvP fan but now it's clear you just don't want Rooney as the #9, yet the season after Ronnie left he played as the #9 and bagged one of the best totals in PL history, he's exactly where he should be right now, not taking up a spot in midfield.If RvP is past it another centre forward should be bought. If he's not good enough anymore that doesn't mean Rooney is good enough for that position in a United that is challenging for title's and cups. In 4-4-2 Rooney is the natural second striker, not the most forward one, in 4-3-3 that equals to CM.
I think RVP is a very good player who has been slightly better than Rooney has ever been, but if he keeps going from injury tot injury, with inconsistent performances inbetween, the end is near. I get the feeling you don't like RvP very much and don't want to give the tiniest bit of credit.Well at least we have finally hit the crux of all this, I thought you were just a big RvP fan but now it's clear you just don't want Rooney as the #9, yet the season after Ronnie left he played as the #9 and bagged one of the best totals in PL history, he's exactly where he should be right now, not taking up a spot in midfield.
I echoed this again recently in another thread and just had a look at his most recent games and it really does back it up.It's infuriating how he slows our attacks down though. I he gets the ball with players ahead of him, ratger than looking to play the ball forward he shifts it wide or backwards so he can join the attack himself.
When you've got a strike pertner and an attacking midfielder on the field you dont have to play like you're a lone striker leading the line.
If Messi ever played in a 442 he too woudl be the second striker but in a 433, as we all know, he's best upfront (false 9) if not out wide, but definitely not as CM.In 4-4-2 Rooney is the natural second striker, not the most forward one, in 4-3-3 that equals to CM.
We have people here saying he hasn't moved for passes this season and others saying he's missed countless sitters. It can't be both so which is it?He hasn't shifted his arse for the right pass all season long.
It is possible to do both, you know. It's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Even the most lethargic of strikers get chances.We have people here saying he hasn't moved for passes this season and others saying he's missed countless sitters. It can't be both so which is it?
Ocassionally. To read on here you'd think he'd been sat on his arse in front of goal all season missing countless chances per game. As it is he's got 10 goals in 25 games. Not what you expect from Robin Van Persie but in a team playing as poorly as we were it doesn't make him fit for the Travellers yard just yet either.It is possible to do both, you know. It's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Even the most lethargic of strikers get chances.
Come on, be fair. He wasn't the only one passing backward. Have you forgotten how sh*t we were just a few weeks ago; we only just learnt to pass forward against Spurs.I echoed this again recently in another thread and just had a look at his most recent games and it really does back it up.
Against Burnley he played 3 forward passes in the final third (0 into the area), the rest of his 25 successful passes were either backwards or square and wide. He didn't recieve a single pass within 30 yards of goal.
Against West Ham he played 1 forward pass into the area, the rest of his 20 passes were miles from the box, he received 3 passes in the area.
I really think that a large part of our success recently has been having a striker who doesn't just constantly drop into no mans land to recieve the ball. Rooney gets in behind and gets into dangerous areas in a way that Van Persie just doesn't have the mobility to any more.
Those stats don't mean much seeing as most of those passes would have been with his back to goal and holding the ball up. That one forward pass against WHU was a delightful through ball to Falcao (And he predictably fecked it up). RVP ran in behind the defense on plenty of occasions at the start of the season, probably even more than Rooney. It was his finishing that let him down rather than his movement, which is generally excellent.I echoed this again recently in another thread and just had a look at his most recent games and it really does back it up.
Against Burnley he played 3 forward passes in the final third (0 into the area), the rest of his 25 successful passes were either backwards or square and wide. He didn't recieve a single pass within 30 yards of goal.
Against West Ham he played 1 forward pass into the area, the rest of his 20 passes were miles from the box, he received 3 passes in the area.
I really think that a large part of our success recently has been having a striker who doesn't just constantly drop into no mans land to recieve the ball. Rooney gets in behind and gets into dangerous areas in a way that Van Persie just doesn't have the mobility to any more.
I don't agree. If you play 4-3-3 with the midfield pointing forward, CM is the position closest to the false nine. Actually, both the man up front and the CM are a bit false in different ways. Ideally the 9 in a strong and static way, and the 10 in a dynamic agile way. Messi would be at his best with a strong centre forward, tall and therefore a big reach, who does a lot of one touch lay offs, and who can turn towards goal with a defender on his back, a bridgehead at the edge of the box. That must be why Guardiola got Ibrahimovic, but overlooked the two weak points of Ibrahimovic: with the ball kept on the grass, his first touch isn't solid nor very precise, and by personality he's not servient. I get the feeling Messi is played as a striker because of his personal goal scoring statistics, which are not only good for his ego, but also very important for his marketing and therefore the money. But he does all right as a strikerIf Messi ever played in a 442 he too woudl be the second striker but in a 433, as we all know, he's best upfront (false 9) if not out wide, but definitely not as CM.
When playing CM, his long diagonal could be very useful on the break, and for the run into the box he needs be outside the box first.I'm sorry but the second striker and CM skillset is vastly different. Rooney isn't even a #10 like Zidane or Silva who play it short, build up moves and then go for the killer pass or dribble. Rooney's party piece is the long diagonal, the run into the box, and the explosive shot.
I think there's an important role for Van Gaal there, especially the timing, getting in sync collectively. I think it's quite an intelligent player, but I agree he's not the ideal 10. But I do think that most people here don't realize how close a CM in Van Gaal's possesson based attacking 4-3-3 can be to a second striker. Bergkamp has played CM, Litmanen did, Kluivert did (occasionally).His control is average and he gets caught in possession, he isn't the most reliable short passer either. At 28ish I don't think he has yet mastered the decision-making in picking the correct pass at the correct time. Also, he can mark one particular player but I haven't seen him do well at collectively pressing or collectively dropping back or defending as part of a unit- all of which CMs need.
Not only when he's playing from midfield, also the kind of the goals he scored as the striker were from positions a CM could or should get into. The man up front often ends up at near or far post, or close to the goalkeeper, has to move away to the side of the box, ends up with tight angles, has little space to run and often has to pass his man from a standing start, not really situations Rooney is very good at.@Dr. Funkenstein i agree with a lot of what you are saying.
It's worth noting that Rooney's goal against Villa came after he was pushed back into the 'Fellaini role' - which matches with your claim that he scores goals from midfielder positions. Prior to that he was arguably our worst player on the pitch for the second game running.
Yes, but RVP has also had a few games this season where he didn't do much at all, while Rooney always makes something happen in one way or another, even if he's very poor. So it depends on RVP's form more than Rooney's, but I don't doubt that in a few weeks he will get as much in sync as Rooney.I believe, along with you, that our improvement had been largely down to LVG's training, and not simply shifting Rooney up top or having RVP nowhere near the team. I have seen nothing from Rooney the last few weeks that makes me believe RVP couldn't do a better job up top.
I have nothing against RvP, I just think he's shot physically and I want a quick, strong and hard working #9, not a luxury player who has the odd silky moment but slows down the team in general and has no pace.I think RVP is a very good player who has been slightly better than Rooney has ever been, but if he keeps going from injury tot injury, with inconsistent performances inbetween, the end is near. I get the feeling you don't like RvP very much and don't want to give the tiniest bit of credit.
But that's personal, I certainly do like Rooney. But I don't need him to be topscorer to know he's good. I get the feeling most people who prefer Rooney up top see the nr 9 as better than the nr 10 position, like it's a demotion to be moved to midfield. I don't agree at all, I think in general the nr 10 is the more important position and the more influential player in attacking possession based 4-3-3 and I'm sure Van Gaal does to. It's Rooney's best position, what he lacks in refinement he compensates with energy, versatility and vision.
The reason we have played better in midfield is because we are playing midfielders in midfield rather than playing strikers there.This thread kind of shows how most posters on here don't really think critically when it comes to football. Opinion comes purely from confirmation bias and coincidences. Posters attribute Utds rise in form to Van Persies absence and Rooney's inclusion in the no.9 position yet how does that explain Utds improved midfield performances, passing, team cohesion, defending? How come the team put in one of its best performances this season against Liverpool away when Rooney put in one of his worse displays ever for the club as a striker? Rooney hasn't been particularly great. He's scoring some great goals but he is not putting in amazing performances. Its pretty obvious that Van Gaal has finally gotten the team playing the way he wants them to play and thats a result of hours and hours of hardwork and repetition of his methods on the training field not because Van Persie simply picked up an injury. Thats basically a huge slap on the face to Van Gaal. People also think that Van Gaal would sacrifice his teams performances simply because he's "mates" with Van Persie. Do you really know who Van Gaal is?
Because we have an extra midfielder in midfield (who isn't Rooney).Posters attribute Utds rise in form to Van Persies absence and Rooney's inclusion in the no.9 position yet how does that explain Utds improved midfield performances, passing, team cohesion, defending?
Because we're pressing hard from the front via Rooney - who did a great job of doing that at Liverpool and closed them down from the front every chance he got. Something RvP just can't do.How come the team put in one of its best performances this season against Liverpool away when Rooney put in one of his worse displays ever for the club as a striker? Rooney hasn't been particularly great.
Yeah, he is. Take Rooney out of that false 9 slot and the pressure on the midfield will increase, and in turn the pressure on the defence will increase.[/QUOTE]He's scoring some great goals but he is not putting in amazing performances.
True. However, it's also true that it took RvP being injured, Di Maria being suspended, Falcao being dropped - Rooney moved from CM to CF and Ander Herrera and Juan Mata being moved from the bench to the starting line up for it to work...Its pretty obvious that Van Gaal has finally gotten the team playing the way he wants them to play and thats a result of hours and hours of hardwork and repetition of his methods on the training field not because Van Persie simply picked up an injury. Thats basically a huge slap on the face to Van Gaal. People also think that Van Gaal would sacrifice his teams performances simply because he's "mates" with Van Persie. Do you really know who Van Gaal is?
I really hope not.Daily Mail for the past week or so keeps reporting he's out this summer. Even going as far to predict that we will pay him to leave so he can be offered to Serie A at a cut price (right up Juventus' ally).
I think it's inevitable we are bringing in another striker and I think it will be Cavani. That rumor hasn't gone away for about a year now.
And next season will become this season part 2 - how to fit in your striker captain and your big name, unproven PL striker...Daily Mail for the past week or so keeps reporting he's out this summer. Even going as far to predict that we will pay him to leave so he can be offered to Serie A at a cut price (right up Juventus' ally).
I think it's inevitable we are bringing in another striker and I think it will be Cavani. That rumor hasn't gone away for about a year now.
Cavani can play on the wings too. Maybe Van Gaal is looking to kill two birds with one stone.And next season will become this season part 2 - how to fit in your striker captain and your big name, unproven PL striker...