[jem]

I think Mata on the right is a fundamental flaw in our set up. I think he's a fantastic player. But he doesn't suit that system, on the right. Of course, another question is whether that system suits us, but I think we cannot carry 2 players with no pace in attack, who are 100% one-footed, and have the other play on the wing. Januzaj is no world beater and is still developing, and quite often bullied too easily, but he's a better option on the right than Mata. Even Tony is a better option on the right than Mata.

Well if 100% one-footed is what you're after.... All that being said, I think Mata is wasted on the wing, but I don't think Januzaj is quite ready for the full-time role, and Valencia, for me, is at best a change of pace sub, to be used sparingly. So what we really need is a new winger. Could Mane be that player?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That, and also the point is when Swansea was changing their shape our manager has done nothing to counter that. It's very hard to speculate what strategy and coping plot in LvG's head because I am not sure if he knows it himself. Credit to Swansea but we do have outfield players on paper to cope ffs. The keeper had not been really tested in the past three games but Swansea's today have proved Romero can never be our number 1.

You would think after losing 6 points to Swansea last season would be lesson learned. Nothing was learned.

He said the players had to deal with the shape change, I always thought a manager does that. What exactly does he do, takes the praise when things go well, but won't take the blame when they don't.

 

[jem]

People blaming Shaw for the defeat lol! If our attack wasn't so shit maybe he wouldn't look like our best player each and every game!

Rooney was poor and had chances he should have scored.

Memphis was absolutely pathetic today. I know he's young and he will improve. I don't mind him trying things BUT STOP begging the ref for free kicks when the defender gets the better of you! It's pathetic. I feckin hate that more than diving! You are not fouled mate your just losing the ball too feckin easily!

Thought we were in control when 1 up but there's no urgency to kill the game off whatsoever! There are chances to kill the game but no, it's pass, pass, pass and end up going back to goal! Then we get hit on the break... Twice!
After that it's ALL us but seriously what did we do? We lumped the ball up to Fellaini at every opportunity and created nothing!

I can't be bothered to scroll back through previous posts, but are people seriously blaming Shaw? I thought he was one of the few to emerge with any credit from this game.

 

[ice-bionic red]

I can't be bothered to scroll back through previous posts, but are people seriously blaming Shaw? I thought he was one of the few to emerge with any credit from this game.

Yes Jem, people saying Shaw is at fault for both goals and should have been defending the space.
Tell me, how can he be defending space when he is the major player in our attacks and has been our best player this season?! Staggering!

 

[Bugzy]

Three things should be abundantly clear after today,

1. We won't win the league with Romero in goals
   
   
2. We won't win the league with Rooney as our main attacking option
   
   
3. feck that stupid panther celebration.
   

 

[Bugzy]

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Yes Jem, people saying Shaw is at fault for both goals and should have been defending the space.
Tell me, how can he be defending space when he is the major player in our attacks and has been our best player this season?! Staggering!

People are blaming Shaw because they don't really understand football. He was caught high up the pitch with us losing posession twice and it led to two goals. That wasn't his fault. He is supposed to get up the pitch to give us width. What is supposed to happen is a central midfielder slides across to cover it and the other central midfielder should (when leading by a goal to nil) drop deeper to cover the (new) back four. That didn't happen and it was a tactical error on our part. We were invited to get our full backs forwards by Swansea withdrawing their wide players and then giving themselves an extra central man and a second striker to occupy Smalling so they could isolate Gomis on Blind who he will physically dominate. That was a good move by Monk. Well done to them. Shame on us for not sorting it out when it happened - they scored very soon after.

 

[bugmat]

We look exactly like the Arsenal of old - dominating possession, barely having any shots, losing to several counterattacks.

 

[Bastian]

Well if 100% one-footed is what you're after.... All that being said, I think Mata is wasted on the wing, but I don't think Januzaj is quite ready for the full-time role, and Valencia, for me, is at best a change of pace sub, to be used sparingly. So what we really need is a new winger. Could Mane be that player?

I am thinking on the assumption that we do not buy any further players (which we need to do, at least another striker). If that's the case, my order of preference on the right is: Januzaj - Young/Tony - Lingard - Mata (other players that aren't right wingers, right midfielders). You can say Januzaj isn't ready, and to a degree I agree, but Mata isn't suitable, which is worse IMO. Januzaj at least will benefit in the long term and he will restore balance to the side. Also, Louis needs to give a bit of SAF/Jose and demand protection for him and Memphis (today Memphis should have had maybe 3-4 free kicks)

I'd rather not buy a stop gap type player and I don't know too much about Mane. He's been hit and miss when I've seen him, but I'd rather not buy him unless the management expects him to improve quite a lot.

 

[redevil2]

People blaming Shaw for the defeat lol! If our attack wasn't so shit maybe he wouldn't look like our best player each and every game!

Rooney was poor and had chances he should have scored.

Memphis was absolutely pathetic today. I know he's young and he will improve. I don't mind him trying things BUT STOP begging the ref for free kicks when the defender gets the better of you! It's pathetic. I feckin hate that more than diving! You are not fouled mate your just losing the ball too feckin easily!

Thought we were in control when 1 up but there's no urgency to kill the game off whatsoever! There are chances to kill the game but no, it's pass, pass, pass and end up going back to goal! Then we get hit on the break... Twice!
After that it's ALL us but seriously what did we do? We lumped the ball up to Fellaini at every opportunity and created nothing!

This is what made my blood boil. Gary said it perfectly: when you are two three goals up, you keep possession but not when you are needing goals! And we kept squaring to the sides and passing back as if there's no urgency.

These legendary united players must be very very frustrated watching us, because they were coached/taught and knew first hand how to press and be "come back king" when required. And keep wondering why on earth the players were doing that. If it's not LvG's coaching I don't know what is.

 

[horsechoker]

I think LVG is the dutch moyes :

• Saying we played well controlled the game when other team beats you and creates more chances
• Dithering over buying players
• Dithering in tactics
• Sucking Rooney's cock
• Slow passing which is sideways and backwards
• Making us hard to beat
• Fellaini as a striker
• Chasing world class targets and ending up with nothing

Everything above is same as moyes did. It will end badly for luis. If we lose to liverpool i think the knives will be out.

LVG

Spoiler

Club
Ajax

• Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
• KNVB Cup: 1992–93
• Johan Cruijff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
• UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
• UEFA Cup: 1991–92
• UEFA Super Cup: 1995
• Intercontinental Cup: 1995

Barcelona

• La Liga: 1997–98, 1998–99
• Copa del Rey: 1997–98
• UEFA Super Cup: 1997

AZ

• Eredivisie: 2008–09

Bayern Munich

• Bundesliga: 2009–10
• DFB-Pokal: 2009–10
• DFB-Supercup: 2010

International
Netherlands

• FIFA World Cup third place: 2014

Awards and achievements

• World Soccer Manager of the Year: 1995[93]
• Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 1995[94]
• Rinus Michels Award: 2007, 2009[95]
• Dutch Sports Coach of the Year: 2009, 2014[96][97]
• Die Sprachwahrer des Jahres (3rd place): 2009[98]
• German Football Manager of the Year: 2010[99]

David Moyes

Spoiler

Preston North End

• Football League Second Division: 1999–2000[62]

Manchester United

• FA Community Shield: 2013[62]

Individual

• LMA Manager of the Year: 2002–03, 2004–05, 2008–09[63]
• Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2002, September 2004, January 2006, February 2008, February 2009, January 2010, March 2010, October 2010, September 2012, March 2013[63]

 

[redevil2]

Three things should be abundantly clear after today,

1. We won't win the league with Romero in goals
   
   
2. We won't win the league with Rooney as our main attacking option
   
   
3. feck that stupid panther celebration.

Really? You were still talking about winning the league? It might be more realistic to think of whether we can retain top 4. No I am not being negative. I am just thinking it's really getting hard to look forward to watching our team's next game, whoever the opponent.

We don't have a talisman on the pitch (because Basti is not our captain and it's never to going to happen as long as LvG is in charge). His conservative approach of playing is really frustrating. We are not tactical, we aren't physical, where are our chances and goals gonna come from?

 

[bugmat]

Rooney chance

That is absolutely pathetic for a supposed world class attacker much less a striker. Shocking - he has learned nothing after doing this earlier in the same game or vs Spurs. Nothing.

 

[redevil2]

LVG

Spoiler

Club
Ajax

• Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
• KNVB Cup: 1992–93
• Johan Cruijff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
• UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
• UEFA Cup: 1991–92
• UEFA Super Cup: 1995
• Intercontinental Cup: 1995

Barcelona

• La Liga: 1997–98, 1998–99
• Copa del Rey: 1997–98
• UEFA Super Cup: 1997

AZ

• Eredivisie: 2008–09

Bayern Munich

• Bundesliga: 2009–10
• DFB-Pokal: 2009–10
• DFB-Supercup: 2010

International
Netherlands

• FIFA World Cup third place: 2014

Awards and achievements

• World Soccer Manager of the Year: 1995[93]
• Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 1995[94]
• Rinus Michels Award: 2007, 2009[95]
• Dutch Sports Coach of the Year: 2009, 2014[96][97]
• Die Sprachwahrer des Jahres (3rd place): 2009[98]
• German Football Manager of the Year: 2010[99]

[/spoiler]

You failed to add:
1. Losing 9 points to Swansea in wthree games consecutively
2. Leaving the United goal keeping situation in limbo
....

 

[Parry Gallister]

People are blaming Shaw because they don't really understand football. He was caught high up the pitch with us losing posession twice and it led to two goals. That wasn't his fault. He is supposed to get up the pitch to give us width. What is supposed to happen is a central midfielder slides across to cover it and the other central midfielder should (when leading by a goal to nil) drop deeper to cover the (new) back four. That didn't happen and it was a tactical error on our part. We were invited to get our full backs forwards by Swansea withdrawing their wide players and then giving themselves an extra central man and a second striker to occupy Smalling so they could isolate Gomis on Blind who he will physically dominate. That was a good move by Monk. Well done to them. Shame on us for not sorting it out when it happened - they scored very soon after.

Bang on. Can't really blame our fullbacks for that as they weren't given the instructions. That with indecisive keeping on the second cost us today. Both of those things can be just a one-off.

Unless the squad's just slow off the mark though (like Chelsea, Arse etc tbf - no-one besides City seems to be threatening going forward) the lack of penetration/goal threat is a problem that'll cost us going forward. Needs to be sorted out through either coaching or recruiting, asap.

 

[bugmat]

Are you serious? Herrera was wasted today. Sure he sent mata once through but other than that he did little to nothing

He also set Rooney up for that dink he made into their keeper's chest. He should have left him on and subbed Rooney but that would never happen to the king.

 

[prath92]

He also set Rooney up for that dink he made into their keeper's chest. He should have left him on and subbed Rooney but that would never happen to the king.

None of them were easy chances. The two through balls to Rooney and one to Mata were not converted because they were on one side of the box covered by 2 defenders and keeper. Ideally your 10 should be running into the box at the time but Herrera is a CM and doesn't run into the box like a 10. So we get isolated.

 

[bugmat]

None of them were easy chances. The two through balls to Rooney and one to Mata were not converted because they were on one side of the box covered by 2 defenders and keeper. Ideally your 10 should be running into the box at the time but Herrera is a CM and doesn't run into the box like a 10. So we get isolated.

They were chances that would have been scored by RvP, Aguero and at least ten other strikers now playing in this league. Rooney wasted at least 3 great opportunities today. He also set Mata up with the shot he put wide earlier.

 

[ManUtd1999]

I'm disappointed because we could've been in a much better position in the table right now. Chelsea is looking bad and Arsenal is shaky and we should've taken advantage of that.

 

[Momochiru]

@Niall How many points are you supposed to get if you guess both the starting 11 and the 3 subs right?

 

[Sam]

That game went pretty much exactly how most of us predicted.

Lots of possession, very little chances, sucker punched.

 

[Momochiru]

I got 20 points in my line up prediction

How???

 

[Born2Lose]

Another pathetic dive from Rooney, captain..my arse.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What really annoys me is after the game it was Mata who came out to speak. Other times it will be Michael Carrick. It should have been Rooney. He loves the limelight of being the captain, but hides when things are going wrong.

 

[Adisa]

How???

Predicted all 11 players, so that's 17 points and 3 bonus points for predictions the substitutes

 

[VorZakone]

Swansea, despite being inferior in terms of quality, do the basics right. Not overly reliant on crosses from the wings to score and the ability to play through the middle with through balls. Great job by Monk.

 

[marukomu]

Seems like RAWK took their defeat better than we did.

 

[Cassidy]

Predicted all 11 players, so that's 17 points and 3 bonus points for predictions the substitutes

Did I get robbed then? I predicted all 11 players and got 2 subs right and ended up with 16

 

[Offside]

Merson was spot on again.

 

[marukomu]

We have other problems than just Rooney. He touched the ball less than anyone else on the pitch apparently. Even having Pedro instead may not have made a difference. Just not enough service.

 

[izec]

Did I get robbed then? I predicted all 11 players and got 2 subs right and ended up with 16

14+2=16

 

[darko]

My observation is that LVG is obsessed with possession at all times. I'd rather see the attackers taking opponents on and if the lose possession, so what. I think that bothers LVG and the fact it bothers him, that bothers me. IMO, the play too conservatively in the attacking third.

 

[Owngoalscorer]

Its early days still but this is a worrying result
First of all we were easily leapfrogged in the league by the team that beat us and predictably failed to take advantage of direct rivals failings by doing exactly the same ourselves - not exactly the best way to move up the table
Secondly and more importantly real lack of leadership from the bench - I wonder what LvGs halftime talk consists of? It doesn't seem to have much effect. No plan B because the system that is being drummed into the players doesn't permit one... it's plan A all the way ad infinitum. Our play is predictable, the subs are predictable and apart from the mysterious inclusion of Chicha even the bench was 100% same shizzle.
Now we're gonna get two days panic buying at over-inflated prices to snag some star who will predictably fail because he'll be bought to sell chewing gum in Afghanistan rather than play in the Prem.
And after that, an international break where Rooney will fill is boots against Andorra or some such...

 

[Winrar]

Predicted all 11 players, so that's 17 points and 3 bonus points for predictions the substitutes

17 points is the maximum

 

[Momochiru]

Predicted all 11 players, so that's 17 points and 3 bonus points for predictions the substitutes

I did the same, but got only 17 points.

 

[Maradona10]

@horsechoker
Does that mean Liverpool are better than city right NOW too? What kind of argument is that? showing me their trophies? I am talking about playing style and how they are doing things in transfer market, how they insist on rooney when they are past it and you show me their past achievements. LVG might have won alot but he isnt close to having anything called a team here. This "team" isnt close to challenging for the title, we can bump up threads of lets laugh at liverpool,but right now we need to look at what is happening here and shout at ourselves.
If you are a stat man-
Moyes- 51 games for united - 27 wins
Van gaal- 50 games for united 27 wins

I hated the minute moyes was appointed cause i knew it wasnt the right choice, with lvg i knew he would do a job and was looking forward to his tenure and its been exctly the same. Moyes got 6 wins on the trot, Lvg got same. moyes lost it in the end and ended just few points behind LVG's total last year, with LVG having an advantage of no europe for full year and a Liverpool team that came back to its shitness. The facts are facts, Right now LVG is not doing any better than moyes, I love the club and not one man who manages it and i am not blind that i cannot see what is and what is not working. We are resorting to moyes tactics by playing fellaini as a 9, we arepassing ball sideways and backkwards without doing anything with it again moyes did the same, next all we have to do is cross 890 times against some team like west brom and our years under LVG and moyes will be exactly the same.

You can be sure that if we dont sign an attacker now and we loose to liverpool, which in itself will be diabolical considering their defense and lack of coutinho, the knives will be out for him. Its lack of preparation in transfer market,stubborn and lazy management that is causing us to be an embarrassment to our own name. He revealed he is asking from rooney what team he should select when rooney is the one who shouldnt be in the team. Shambles of a club we are right now and the manager is responsible. When you fight a battle and you lose you do not blame a specific soldier, you blame preparation, tactics and the head of strategy. I hope you get my point.

 

[horsechoker]

@horsechoker
Does that mean Liverpool are better than city right NOW too? What kind of argument is that? showing me their trophies? I am talking about playing style and how they are doing things in transfer market, how they insist on rooney when they are past it and you show me their past achievements. LVG might have won alot but he isnt close to having anything called a team here. This "team" isnt close to challenging for the title, we can bump up threads of lets laugh at liverpool,but right now we need to look at what is happening here and shout at ourselves.
If you are a stat man-
Moyes- 51 games for united - 27 wins
Van gaal- 50 games for united 27 wins

I hated the minute moyes was appointed cause i knew it wasnt the right choice, with lvg i knew he would do a job and was looking forward to his tenure and its been exctly the same. Moyes got 6 wins on the trot, Lvg got same. moyes lost it in the end and ended just few points behind LVG's total last year, with LVG having an advantage of no europe for full year and a Liverpool team that came back to its shitness. The facts are facts, Right now LVG is not doing any better than moyes, I love the club and not one man who manages it and i am not blind that i cannot see what is and what is not working. We are resorting to moyes tactics by playing fellaini as a 9, we arepassing ball sideways and backkwards without doing anything with it again moyes did the same, next all we have to do is cross 890 times against some team like west brom and our years under LVG and moyes will be exactly the same.

You can be sure that if we dont sign an attacker now and we loose to liverpool, which in itself will be diabolical considering their defense and lack of coutinho, the knives will be out for him. Its lack of preparation in transfer market,stubborn and lazy management that is causing us to be an embarrassment to our own name. He revealed he is asking from rooney what team he should select when rooney is the one who shouldnt be in the team. Shambles of a club we are right now and the manager is responsible. When you fight a battle and you lose you do not blame a specific soldier, you blame preparation, tactics and the head of strategy. I hope you get my point.

Are you really arguing that Moyes is on the same level as Van Gaal?

You can't compare the two, its obvious who the better manager is. Moyes took our team downward and LVG had to start from an even lower posistion than which Moyes started. Moyes dithered in the transfer marker, LVG has improved our squad from what it was.

Also no of course Liverpool aren't better than City at this present time. Teams change and we are comparing these two over a hundred years. With David Moyes and LVG we are comparing two individuals over a 20 year period. It's clear who the better manager is.

I wasn't happy with yesterday's performance either or some of the performances we have put in, but to say LVG is the Dutch Moyes or whatever is just stupid. Even if LVG is sacked this season, he still did more for this club than Moyes ever did.

 

[moses]

To Arsenal:
09-11-1997 (A) - lost 3:2
14-03-1998 (H) - lost 1:0
20-09-1998 (A) - lost 3:0

To Chelsea:
08-11-2009 (A) - lost 1:0
03-04-2010 (H) - lost 2:1
01-03-2011 (A) - lost 2:1

To Liverpool:
17-12-2000 (H) - lost 1:0
31-03-2001 (A) - lost 2:0
04-11-2001 (A) - lost 3:1
22-01-2002 (H) - lost 1:0

13-09-2008 (A) - lost 2:1
14-03-2009 (H) - lost 4:1
25-10-2009 (A) - lost 2:0

To Manchester City:
08-04-2013 (H) - lost 2:1
22-09-2013 (A) - lost 4:1
25-03-2014 (H) - lost 3:0
02-11-2014 (A) - lost 1:0

To West Ham:
17-12-2006 (A) - lost 1:0
13-05-2007 (H) - lost 1:0
29-12-2007 (A) - lost 2:1

Cheers Damo, you're the bestest nerd we have, by miles.

 

[redevil2]

To Arsenal:
09-11-1997 (A) - lost 3:2
14-03-1998 (H) - lost 1:0
20-09-1998 (A) - lost 3:0

To Chelsea:
08-11-2009 (A) - lost 1:0
03-04-2010 (H) - lost 2:1
01-03-2011 (A) - lost 2:1

To Liverpool:
17-12-2000 (H) - lost 1:0
31-03-2001 (A) - lost 2:0
04-11-2001 (A) - lost 3:1
22-01-2002 (H) - lost 1:0

13-09-2008 (A) - lost 2:1
14-03-2009 (H) - lost 4:1
25-10-2009 (A) - lost 2:0

To Manchester City:
08-04-2013 (H) - lost 2:1
22-09-2013 (A) - lost 4:1
25-03-2014 (H) - lost 3:0
02-11-2014 (A) - lost 1:0

To West Ham:
17-12-2006 (A) - lost 1:0
13-05-2007 (H) - lost 1:0
29-12-2007 (A) - lost 2:1

None of these teams are Swansea level, plus we almost always went on to win the league. These data are irrelevant and no comparison. If LvG brings us to win the league no one will even mind about the shameful Swansea losses. LvG didn't have a clue to handle Swansea. He admitted it in his post match interview

 

[redevil2]

Ferguson would have got us charging forward for a goal now. Not this shit.

Fergie would have been giving his hair drying treatment in HT and when Swansea levelled, he would have been be up standing on the touch line directing and driving his players forward, instead of squaring the ball to the sides recycling it backward with the sole aim of keeping the fecking 65% possession.