I do take boiled eggs with pinch of salt....and pinch of chilli powder.
I can honestly say that even if Giggs goes and manages somewhere far away, like Timbuktu Rovers, some on here will still manufacture a way to blame him for everything that happens at Utd. What on earth would he have to gain from such a leak? Mourinho is all but confirmed officially, the whole world knows that so how would this advance Giggs' cause? It's completely illogical.
Haven't we all learned snippets for ages now about what's been going on in the background with respect to Van Gaal's style of management and haven't we seen the results of that on the pitch? All that article has done is confirm it, yet here we have people jumping up and down in moral outrage. To be perfectly honest I don't give a toss who leaked this or why. I have zero sympathy for Van Gaal, his dreadful football and egotistical character.
Haven't we all learned snippets for ages now about what's been going on in the background with respect to Van Gaal's style of management and haven't we seen the results of that on the pitch? All that article has done is confirm it, yet here we have people jumping up and down in moral outrage. To be perfectly honest I don't give a toss who leaked this or why. I have zero sympathy for Van Gaal, his dreadful football and egotistical character.
Makes sense actually. I know a company that changed 3 CEOs in the last ~5 years or so, because owners were not happy with the results but their CFO always stayed the same. Why? Well basically cause he was just doing his job, keeping the books. He is a "company man". And while top men got the sack for sales drop and etc, he stayed.
Same thing here. You can't really expect Giggs to dictate terms to LVG or United.
He probably asked LVG how he felt about chips and he said it's okay, so Ryan agreed to work with him. Now he is going to ask Jose not only about chips, but also Jones taking corners, "pass back before you attack" and the rest shit he suffered under LVG. Live and learn i guess.
Seriously speaking though, that is completely unfeasible. How do you actually envision such a safeguard? When you agree to work as an assistant manager it's the same as it would have been in any company. You work for the company itself, but also for your director or boss, whatever. Do you expect Giggs to go to Woodward in the middle of the season and rant about how terrible LVG is, mention all the things Giggs thinks LVG is doing wrong. And then give Woodward an ultimatum, say either you make LVG accept my criticism and drop his "philosophy" or i resign. You think that's wise? You think that is a type of behavior that benefits the club?
Giggs is our "company man", you suggest him to get a job elsewhere. But what if he does not want it right know. He wants to stay in Manchester, to work for United in a squad and with people he knows really well after what 25 years at the club or so. You should think about football more in terms of a real-life situations. It's not like in championship manager you accept proposal from Swansea and here you are. No, you actually need to move or have a much longer commute and so on.
Only two people look good in this story: Rooney and Giggs, so it's almost certainly them or one of their friends.
I'm not sure who comes across worse in that article - control freak Van Gaal or our mutual mollycoddling players. Probably the latter. The stuff about "long video analysis" and "critical emails" doesn't sound absurd given the trash we were playing under Moyes and LVG. The bit about ignoring critical emails makes them sound like little brats though.And it's hilarious how the "player treatment" upsetting everyone wasn't that of Wayne Rooney's.
And finally, there's our angel of course absolved from all blame, the hidden genius biding his time, loyal to LVG and respected by all - Ryan Giggs. Give me a break.
Senior players set the tone. I say - bin Rooney, Carrick and Giggs, and let's build a stronger playing and management squad. Too many people hanging on to their positions rather than inspiring their juniors.
Yeah i think so too. Especially in some sort of hedge fund, broker variety and the like. His "nothing to prove, i have a good resume and philosophy so don't bug me about something as trivial as current results" approach would do just fine there.
I wonder if Fergie ever sent players critical e-mails with video-analysis. No, can't really picture it.
No, can't really picture it.that is interesting
And it's hilarious how the "player treatment" upsetting everyone wasn't that of Wayne Rooney's.
And finally, there's our angel of course absolved from all blame, the hidden genius biding his time, loyal to LVG and respected by all - Ryan Giggs. Give me a break.
Senior players set the tone. I say - bin Rooney, Carrick and Giggs, and let's build a stronger playing and management squad. Too many people hanging on to their positions rather than inspiring their juniors.
Indeed. They come off as such a precious bunch. Mourinho needs to be brave and demand changes otherwise he's going to be in trouble as well.
It makes sense though. Given the nonsensical football we played under Moyes and then LVG, they should want to improve big time, because they really did have to improve big time.I wonder if Fergie ever sent players critical e-mails with video-analysis.
If "senior figures" felt it was necessary to say this then they should've went about it the same way Lahm did - with his name attached to it, with personal recognition of the team's responsibility and while van Gaal was still in charge. This just makes them come across as whiny bitches relieved to have weaseled out of the situation.
As I have said all season, as the dislike of VG grew the criticism of the players fell, when really, it should be everyone at the club who take the flak.
I have mentioned before I think the biggest difference that came from the youngsters, Rashford in particular, is that they played on instinct not on some set of orders. They had spent the last few years with warren Joyce, not VG or Moyes.
I have mentioned before I think the biggest difference that came from the youngsters, Rashford in particular, is that they played on instinct not on some set of orders. They had spent the last few years with warren Joyce, not VG or Moyes.
Exactly. And people saying what Giggs has to gain? Eh? He's been lumped with VG all season as being part of a failed regime - he wants to keep his 'reputation' in tact for any future managerial/coaching positions. Of course he doesn't want people thinking he's useless as a coach. So easy for him to put all the blame at VG's door - unfortunately this doesn't actually make him look good - not to me anyway.
Sure it does. I have no doubt every successful manager nowadays sends his players such an e-mails. The most nonsensical thing about LVG's United football was the number of back-passes, which clearly was not the fault of the players but rather a LVG philosophy.
Woodward appointed van Gaal to bring true possession-based football to the Premier League. That is a tall order, but one that is even taller when players fake reading your emails and insist on playing their "natural game". It will only work if everyone is willing to change.
Apparantly, when you're paid a small treasury a week it is also killing to be critiqued. The fact that you're paid an everymans yearly salary on a weekly basis does nothing to shield your fragile ego from believing you're no good at what you do.
Van Gaal has done plenty of things wrong, as it is his job to inspire the players, but man, they didn't make it easy for him. And he worked hard, as I already knew he did.
Apparantly, when you're paid a small treasury a week it is also killing to be critiqued. The fact that you're paid an everymans yearly salary on a weekly basis does nothing to shield your fragile ego from believing you're no good at what you do.
Van Gaal has done plenty of things wrong, as it is his job to inspire the players, but man, they didn't make it easy for him. And he worked hard, as I already knew he did.
Come on, as a manager you should do it face to face, there can be exceptions, but normally you should discuss this face to face to make sure the player actually understands.
Our players need to improve their attitude for sure, but sending videos and E-Mail to them seems odd
and there is that The Guardian article
How can the Philosophy even succeed if players don't even open mails.. Is critiquing a player performance such a big turn off for them.. Bunch of primadonna's..
That article says he was doing it face to face until Rooney and Carrick went to him and said it's destroying morale.
Honestly, this is written as some kind of hit piece on LVG but to me it just highlights what spoiled cnuts some of the players are. If you have a problem be a man and deal with it.
It's fairly simple, just like with Moyes he is trying to absolve himself of any responsibility for our terrible football. Essentially 'players rate me but because I'm professional I didn't do a large aspect of my role and challenge LVG when he does something I don't think is right'. As pointed out he has been the only consistent since Fergie retired, doesn't look good on him does it?
I'm not saying you do, but I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely that one guy that has been ever present in the two shambolic managerial appointments comes out with nothing but praises and that happens to the assistant manager who is close with the players. And those reports should be taken with a pinch of salt.
So much dirty laundry. edit: So many baseless Giggs accusations, hilarious. Paranoid delusion.
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Totally agree. Reading these articles it just strikes me what a bunch of fannies our players are. They expect these stories to drum up sympathy for them but for me it highlights how we need to get a few of them shipped out quick, especially whoever this leak was. Hopefully Jose will get a grip on them in a way Moyes and LVG couldn't.
Yup it does look that way.
Does the "inside stroy" tell us something substantially new? We already knew that LVG's style of communication is crap, etc. The articles are published in order to convince the few LVG supporters that he has to go anyway, FA Cup trophey or not, and that firing him does not make us clasless or something.
BTW, those players who had the power to challenge LVG's methods might do the same to Mourinho. We saw what happened to him at Chelsea. Maybe Zlatan is supposed to oppose the influence of those players in the team?
BTW, those players who had the power to challenge LVG's methods might do the same to Mourinho. We saw what happened to him at Chelsea. Maybe Zlatan is supposed to oppose the influence of those players in the team?
This has come out when it has because the club was looking bad, though it was not really at fault, because of the leak about mourinho.
This is clearly a brief to make it look like LVG was on his way out anyway and had alienated everyone in the club. I doubt whether things were quite as bad as this suggests, though I am sure towards the end it wasn't all that pretty.
It's a bit Malcom Tucker-esque.
This is clearly a brief to make it look like LVG was on his way out anyway and had alienated everyone in the club. I doubt whether things were quite as bad as this suggests, though I am sure towards the end it wasn't all that pretty.
It's a bit Malcom Tucker-esque.
Maybe not all of them. But there's nothing strange about it as the article is trying to make it sound.
Nothing even remotely odd about it. If they're such baby's that they can't handle face to face team meetings reviewing the video footage, then the logical step appears to be to send it to them on email where they can, like little children, read the material in isolation.
My god I want these players gone.
Keep Martial, CBJ, Smalling, Blind, Shaw, TFM, Schneiderlin, Rashford and Herrera.
The rest can all go. I dont agree with Van Gaal's style or some of his methods, but ignoring feedback (be it by video session or email) when you're being paid tens of thousands of pounds a week and cant beat sides like Newcastle and Stoke is a fecking joke.
Players who can't acknowledge or accept criticism properly are players who don't want to improve and will never be true winners. Ship them out and lets build a winning culture at this club again.
Keep Martial, CBJ, Smalling, Blind, Shaw, TFM, Schneiderlin, Rashford and Herrera.
The rest can all go. I dont agree with Van Gaal's style or some of his methods, but ignoring feedback (be it by video session or email) when you're being paid tens of thousands of pounds a week and cant beat sides like Newcastle and Stoke is a fecking joke.
Players who can't acknowledge or accept criticism properly are players who don't want to improve and will never be true winners. Ship them out and lets build a winning culture at this club again.
I'm afraid you're being sucked into the nonsense that Giggs has any control whatsoever over the football we play. He's Assistant Manager, that's it. He does what his boss tells him to do and Van Gaal makes the decisions. It could just as easily be a scenario that he makes suggestions to Van Gaal and gets completely ignored. We don't know, and probably never will, but some people just want everything to be Giggs' fault regardless.
This seems like a prime example of what prompted me to post my football journalists thread. Why should we believe a single word this guy writes?
Saying that If it is true then surely the angle is all wrong. If it is true, then this is the second manager many of these guys have seemingly been so horrified by it makes me question the players far more than anything else. Not opening analysis of your performance from your manager? That's simply disgraceful. Had to stay in a budget inn? Quick somebody call a human rights organisation.
should we just let these guys go interview potential candidates and set out a list of exact criteria that doesn't impinge too much on their lifestyles? Better yet, let's play without a manager and let the players organise a game of 5s when they need it. I take the article with a pinch of salt but if It's true it points again to a team of soft idiots.
Saying that If it is true then surely the angle is all wrong. If it is true, then this is the second manager many of these guys have seemingly been so horrified by it makes me question the players far more than anything else. Not opening analysis of your performance from your manager? That's simply disgraceful. Had to stay in a budget inn? Quick somebody call a human rights organisation.
should we just let these guys go interview potential candidates and set out a list of exact criteria that doesn't impinge too much on their lifestyles? Better yet, let's play without a manager and let the players organise a game of 5s when they need it. I take the article with a pinch of salt but if It's true it points again to a team of soft idiots.
defo, all these stories are identical.
If we wanted Giggs to have control, he would have been made head coach. An assistent manager still has a vital function, and it's not to conspire with senior players to roadblock the work by the head coach.
For somebody that claims we don't know anything, you're cock-sure in your belief Giggs "does what he's told to do."
But that's your style, isn't it? Nobody knows anything, unless you know something, in which case you're completely right.
What is irrefutable is that Giggs has been on the coaching staff during two failed regimes. All of Moyes' men were let go (even the clearly talented Chris Woods). All of Van Gaal's men are likely to leave, too. Questioning Giggs' role in the set up, or the quality of his work, isn't all too controversial considering the rest of his colleagues are about to lose their jobs.
Well criticising your team all the time does destroy moral, he should have found out why it is like this or how can he explain it to them differently instead of just sending E - Mails. Simeone once said players are like kids, he sometimes explains things to them in the evening then they go to bed and then the next day they still remember it.
LvG 's communication is difficult enough as it is , I am not even sure the English players understand his E-Mails, let alone the foreign ones. Did he let the E-mail translate for them first? Face to face it's all easier especially with language barrier.
Plus if lot's of your players have difficulty taking your criticism, then you should ask yourself why this is the case and what can be changed instead of just choosing a different medium.
We need to get rid of those senior players and giggs as soon as fecking possible, otherwise we'll waste another two years. It's clear someone's pushing hard for Giggs and has no problem with us being shit to further the agenda. Wonder who might that be
Yep. Daniel Taylor. The Independent. The Telegraph. First you sack him by remote control with the cup in his hand. Then you leak this shit. Very classy.
Agreed, Jim. Methinks there's a Mendes angle here too
These "senior players" come off as whiny babies and complete cowards from that article.
Just get the announcement over and done with, get Mourinho in, dump the shit and move on, ffs!