José Mourinho | Does anybody else think he is building for the future. Long Term!

[tartanbornandred]

Fully agree. Mourinho has long wanted to build a dynasty at a club. When he missed out on the United job in 2013, he resorted to Chelsea and hoped he could achieve something more lasting there - believing the United job was gone for good. It didn't work out (was his heart ever in it?) and he now has the position he has long coveted, going on a decade.

To all intents and purposes this is his last club job, before taking on the Portuguese national role. I don't think it's at all implausible that, if success follows, he'll be here for 5,6,7 years. I was convinced he'd get the job in 2013 and thought we'd see a different Mourinho to the man we've become accustomed to. Yes he is pragmatic, but everything that has happened since his appointment only affirms my belief that he genuinely holds this club in the highest regard.

Why, after spending years angling for the job, would he conduct himself in a manner that might jeopardise his position? It is illogical.

Mourinho joining Instagram is insignificant to some, derided as a PR exercise and a charm offensive. But it gives an insight into our manager. It creates an immediate connection between supporters and the man we're entrusting to lead us to back to the top. Even the posts shared by his wife, son and daughter, lead you to think that this has been his ultimate ambition. Now he finally has the opportunity in which to fulfil it.

It's easy for opposition fans to be cynical. After all, they know that it's boom or bust with Mourinho. And with an inevitable 'boom' comes league titles and European glory.

He needs a good start. He'll be managing in a difficult climate, opposition-wise. The Premier League is as competitive as it has ever been. The six month break will have done him the world of good.

Wait for the moment he walks out at Old Trafford, turns to the Stratford End, beats his chest or pumps his fist and then takes takes his seat for the first time. You'll know then what it means to him.

That's my two cents anyway.

That could pretty much all be true; I hope it is. But if we wanted a manager who would have any kind of long term, or even medium term plan, Mourinho was an awful choice.

He has proven himself to be a person of poor character, he is undeniably a compromise on our integrity, and the continued justification for making that sacrifice was his record of success. But if we are looking at long term planning he is an absolute specialist in failure.

We can hope he has learned from his past mistakes all we like, but there is no point expecting miracles. He has never developed a player from the academy to a first team regular. He has never built a winning team then evolved it into another winning team. He has never successfully planned for the future because his sole focus is always on the present team.

Joining United isn't going to change his approach to management or his abilities, not matter how much he admires Fergie. And if it does he will be changing from the approach that brought all his success to a world he knows nothing about.

 

[VeevaVee]

I'll let you know at Christmas.

 

[tartanbornandred]

Has he not already said he will not sign players to stand in the way of the youth? In perticular Rashford.

Im seeing a lot of confusion alright... And many mistakes!

No, not publicly to my knowledge. Wasn't that just a 'sources understand' Ibrahimovic would be our only striker signed as Mourinho wants to play Rashford?

Rashford who van Gaal gave a chance to and then trusted with a continued place in the first team. So again, this is Mourinho taking a top youngster that someone else has already made a first team regular. Again this would not be Mourinho bringing through a homegrown player.

Even if Mourinho did say this, look at Loftus-Cheek for how much Mourinho's promises to develop young players matter. He said that Loftus-Cheek would be in first team squad and an important player last season, then started him once, subbed him at half time and never played him again. After Mourinho is gone, Loftus-Cheek becomes a key player for Chelsea.

 

[murphs_law]

I'll let you know at Christmas.

Awww buddy get off the fence.... It dont matter if you choose wrong. Go with your gut.

 

[Denis79]

Chelsea and Real wanted success immiediately, maybe thats why he bought the already established players and here he might have been given the the opposite direction by the board, to build for the future. He is still a employee and has to a extent follow the boards directive.

 

[murphs_law]

if it does he will be changing from the approach that brought all his success to a world he knows nothing about.

But he's never been at a club where it is actually demanded off him either. Maybe Porto! Its in our DNA.

I think if you ask any real United fan and ask do you want signings that work now and win the next 3 leagues or will you forego the next 3 to develop a team to challenge for the 7 after.... I think i know what they choose.

 

[VeevaVee]

Awww buddy get off the fence.... It dont matter if you choose wrong. Go with your gut.

Ok, I'll let you know in 2 months when anything other than one thing has happened.

 

[Manchester Dan]

You've only signed one player so far.

The other close signing is 34.

Only time will tell.

 

[Manchester Dan]

But he's never been at a club where it is actually demanded off him either. Maybe Porto! Its in our DNA.

I think if you ask any real United fan and ask do you want signings that work now and win the next 3 leagues or will you forego the next 3 to develop a team to challenge for the 7 after.... I think i know what they choose.

You'd go for winning the next 3 leagues all day, given the current money in the league that would be complete domination. A team will go through a cycle ever 3-5 years anyway, you can't do much more than that.

 

[HeckneyNoodo]

He won't give a single player from your youth setup a debut next season. He won't be there in 3 years.

Pencil case cnut.

Equivalent of "bus wanker" :lol

 

[narnar]

We've signed one player and been linked with embolo. Think it's just coincidence so far.

 

[Sky1981]

That could pretty much all be true; I hope it is. But if we wanted a manager who would have any kind of long term, or even medium term plan, Mourinho was an awful choice.

He has proven himself to be a person of poor character, he is undeniably a compromise on our integrity, and the continued justification for making that sacrifice was his record of success. But if we are looking at long term planning he is an absolute specialist in failure.

We can hope he has learned from his past mistakes all we like, but there is no point expecting miracles. He has never developed a player from the academy to a first team regular. He has never built a winning team then evolved it into another winning team. He has never successfully planned for the future because his sole focus is always on the present team.

Joining United isn't going to change his approach to management or his abilities, not matter how much he admires Fergie. And if it does he will be changing from the approach that brought all his success to a world he knows nothing about.

Apart from saf and wenger, who does the above?

Pep? Klopp? Conte? Ancelotti?

 

[Miscemayl]

Don't think anyone plans long term from the start (perhaps except for Moyes).

If they stick around, then their planning starts becoming more long term, but as Chelsea has shown, short term failure will destroy whatever long term planning you had.

 

[Mourinhonista]

He has always spunked big money on players in their early 20s. Nothing new there. It's promoting youth players he has not really done.

As for being linked with players, come on!

Maybe the quality of the youth players at Chelsea isn't just that good.
There must be something to the story that apart from John Terry nobody else has made the cut so far.
I'm under the impression that your new coach Hiddink didn't award significantly more playing
to the likes of Loftus-Cheek, Aina or other prospects.
Take a look at Ruben, the boy scored goals, but his work ethic has been severely put into question.
Some time ago i read that he's earning something like ~60k a week,
in comparison Alli is on about 25k and playing great stuff, week in and week out in the league.
Chelsea are winning youth competitions, i know that, but when the players leave the club,
most of them aren't cutting it elsewhere. To be fair, Musonda and Christensen seem like gems,
but they were loaned out which was at that time the right move, imo.
Let's see what happens with Aké, great fullback at Watford, but is he part of the youth?!

Jose Mourinho awarded some youngsters at Real Madrid playing time, they've always had good prospects, so i really think he can do it at United too.

No one really knows why it didn't work out at Chelsea, he didn't look so happy during the last season,
maybe the illness of his father played a huge part.
Anyway as far as i've seen him, he looks genuinely happy to be here at Manchester United.
Some of my mates, Chelsea fans, are hurting a lot, so i'm having a hunch where you're coming from.

But good luck with the Italian, maybe he will be your next Zola.

 

[Mourinhonista]

Baba, Hector, Djilobodji etc. were actually board signings, hence didn't get much/any game time.

Although his own signings Felipe Luis, Cuadrado, Salah, etc. also hardly got any game time before being discarded.

Cuadrado was unbelievably bad in the league, you can field me and i won't do worse.
But things are working out for him at Juventus, even scored against Bayern in the Champions-League.
Salah was better, but not good enough, at Roma a different player. Something seems off at Chelsea.
To be fair, Luis got no fair chance, Azpi and Ivanovic were nailed on starters, but back in the day,
they knew how to play footie. Biggest con that Fabregas pulled off.

Would be fun if Chelsea have to suffer their next Bertrand, KdB and Lukaku.
On Chelsea boards they're actually worried that their board would sell Matic to the 'individual'.

 

[Varun]

He's a winner. Winners don't shit on present to build for the future. He does want to stay here long term so I expect us to buy quite a bit and have young kids for the future whilst still having a squad that will can win the league in 2 seasons.

 

[RedElf]

He won't give a single player from your youth setup a debut next season. He won't be there in 3 years.

Pencil case cnut.

Is that one below brief case wanker?

 

[khoazany]

No, not publicly to my knowledge. Wasn't that just a 'sources understand' Ibrahimovic would be our only striker signed as Mourinho wants to play Rashford?

Rashford who van Gaal gave a chance to and then trusted with a continued place in the first team. So again, this is Mourinho taking a top youngster that someone else has already made a first team regular. Again this would not be Mourinho bringing through a homegrown player.

Even if Mourinho did say this, look at Loftus-Cheek for how much Mourinho's promises to develop young players matter. He said that Loftus-Cheek would be in first team squad and an important player last season, then started him once, subbed him at half time and never played him again. After Mourinho is gone, Loftus-Cheek becomes a key player for Chelsea.

He also did say that if Baker,Brown and Solanke (I think) don't become England internationals then that would be his faults (or something along that line).Then he loaned out all of them to Vitesse.

Anyone said the youth players at Chelsea wasn't good enough need to look at Loftus-Cheek,Christensen,Musonda,Solanke,Abraham and some others.They are as good as anything you can find at that level.It's up to the manager and coaches to develop them further to the demand of the first team.Not all of them will become good enough but when zero of them made an impact at first team level under Mourinho despite their first team struggled massively, something wasn't right.

Mourinho is a great manager and a winner but if we want to solely look at the youth promotion and development point of views, he has been poor and that's a fact.I don't get why it's so hard to comprehend for some.If someone think it's not important then okay,fair, but instead many prefer to twist the truth.

 

[SoCross]

Doesn't everyone want to plan for the long term? Depends on how you define long term IMO. I would imagine any manager would go into his job thinking about at the minimum a 3 year plan which by the standards set today is long term. However as @Varun stated, for him to be in with a job for that long, he cannot compromise on the present.

Buying one 22 year old isn't enough indication that he's thinking of the future and to be honest, don't think we can afford to be thinking too long term now; we need immediate success and Mourinho is the closest guarantee of that in the footballing world.

Win us the league next season and then he can do all the long term building he wants to! I wouldn't be unhappy with him not focusing on our youth setup too much next season as long as he gives opportunities to TFM, Rashford and CBJ plus giving a new lease of life to Januzaj and Memphis.

 

[Ferguson]

Abramovich's men controlled their transfers. At any time Chelsea have a dozen players on loan which will never play for Chelsea, and probably were never expected to make it to the first team.

I think the manager has limited input into the transfers at Real Madrid as well.

Has any manager stayed long at either Chelsea or Madrid? They have had some of the best managers in Europe and none of them have managed to stay long term.

The reason Mourinho has wanted the United job is that theoretically the manager can stay longer and have the final say on transfers.

Of course, the Glazers have intervened quite a bit more since Gill and Ferguson left. Let's hope Mourinho can be successful so that a football brain will be allowed to make the decisions instead of the business brains of Woodward and the Glazers.

 

[don't sign old players]

It does seem like he's planning for long term, but a couple of good ready mades like Kante, Mahrez and Zlatan will see us challenging right away. Don't think he'll see any need to go overboard, we're not that bad.

 

[tartanbornandred]

But he's never been at a club where it is actually demanded off him either. Maybe Porto! Its in our DNA.

I think if you ask any real United fan and ask do you want signings that work now and win the next 3 leagues or will you forego the next 3 to develop a team to challenge for the 7 after.... I think i know what they choose.

Are you suggesting you'd rather 3 leagues in the next decade instead of 7?

My point is that it shouldn't be a case of either or at United. Top clubs and top managers need to be working for the future as well as delivering today. Clubs like Chelsea and Inter can sacrifice future planning for a bit of short term success and be satisfied, but we shouldn't lower our expectations.

Doesn't matter anyway, he's here. Lets just enjoy whatever trophies we get with him and just hope his short termism doesn't end up costing us too much long term.

 

[tartanbornandred]

Apart from saf and wenger, who does the above?

Pep? Klopp? Conte? Ancelotti?

Yes, those 4 have shown signs that they plan for the future team while delivering in the present. So has Koeman, Poccatino, Emrey, Low, Beilsa, and de Boer.

I'd say there are few managers worse than Mourinho in terms of long term planning.

 

[tartanbornandred]

He also did say that if Baker,Brown and Solanke (I think) don't become England internationals then that would be his faults (or something along that line).Then he loaned out all of them to Vitesse.

Anyone said the youth players at Chelsea wasn't good enough need to look at Loftus-Cheek,Christensen,Musonda,Solanke,Abraham and some others.They are as good as anything you can find at that level.It's up to the manager and coaches to develop them further to the demand of the first team.Not all of them will become good enough but when zero of them made an impact at first team level under Mourinho despite their first team struggled massively, something wasn't right.

Mourinho is a great manager and a winner but if we want to solely look at the youth promotion and development point of views, he has been poor and that's a fact.I don't get why it's so hard to comprehend for some.If someone think it's not important then okay,fair, but instead many prefer to twist the truth.

Agreed, except it is not 'ok, fair enough' to think it is not important.

It is no coincidence that Mourinho neglects to bring through players for the future, and that Mourinho's teams all collapse after a couple seasons. If he had brought through some of the kids at Chelsea during the title winning season then they might have added some fresh enthusiasm, given some competition for places and rests to the overplayed squad, and prevented the failure of this year.

Quite simply, if Mourinho had it in him to bring through young players then he wouldn't be our manager, he'd be celebrating his 3rd consecutive title at Chelsea and favourite for a fourth next season.

 

[Sky1981]

Yes, those 4 have shown signs that they plan for the future team while delivering in the present. So has Koeman, Poccatino, Emrey, Low, Beilsa, and de Boer.

I'd say there are few managers worse than Mourinho in terms of long term planning.

What a load of crap, None of them have stayed beyond 5 season, what sort of planning do they have?

Klopp : What did he plan for Dortmund? Has he reinvented their academy? how many academy products he develops successfully?
Pep : Messi, Xavi, Inniesta, any manager worth their salt, even a manager like Moyes would play them simply because they're the best in the world.
Pochetinno : How many of his current player is developed by him? He's at Tottenham for 1 year. Delle Ali and all the youngster isn't developed by him
Koeman : The guy who jumped ship after 1 year??? building for the future?? What future?? Everton Future??
Loew : is a national team manager, he's not incharge in developing anyone, the only thing he can do is giving debuts
Bielsa : is a mad men who won't stay long, what sort of future plan he has?
De Boer : You're laughing mate

But any other manager and his dogs are better than Jose Mourinho eh....Moyes is planning to win the league on his 6th year, let's replace Mourinho with Moyes.

 

[Stu1975]

I think we will see Jose have his longest stint as a manager anywhere at O.T.

 

[tartanbornandred]

What a load of crap, None of them have stayed beyond 5 season, what sort of planning do they have?

Klopp : What did he plan for Dortmund? Has he reinvented their academy? how many academy products he develops successfully?
Pep : Messi, Xavi, Inniesta, any manager worth their salt, even a manager like Moyes would play them simply because they're the best in the world.
Pochetinno : How many of his current player is developed by him? He's at Tottenham for 1 year. Delle Ali and all the youngster isn't developed by him
Koeman : The guy who jumped ship after 1 year??? building for the future?? What future?? Everton Future??
Loew : is a national team manager, he's not incharge in developing anyone, the only thing he can do is giving debuts
Bielsa : is a mad men who won't stay long, what sort of future plan he has?
De Boer : You're laughing mate

But any other manager and his dogs are better than Jose Mourinho eh....Moyes is planning to win the league on his 6th year, let's replace Mourinho with Moyes.

And all of them have shown more in developing players for the future than Mourinho has. Add Moyes and van Gaal to the list as well, the list is endless.

I'm not saying they are all better managers than Mourinho, or that they have all built dynasties, you didn't ask that, just that they all put some focus on future success at the same time as on present success. Mourinho doesn't, and it costs him, and we need manager who does.

 

[CG1010]

It does seem like he's planning for long term, but a couple of good ready mades like Kante, Mahrez and Zlatan will see us challenging right away. Don't think he'll see any need to go overboard, we're not that bad.

Don't sign old players says sign old players?

 

[Sky1981]

And all of them have shown more in developing players for the future than Mourinho has. Add Moyes and van Gaal to the list as well, the list is endless.

I'm not saying they are all better managers than Mourinho, or that they have all built dynasties, you didn't ask that, just that they all put some focus on future success at the same time as on present success. Mourinho doesn't, and it costs him, and we need manager who does.

What exactly have they shown?

How the feck can you claim a manager is building for the future when they change club after 1 season (Koeman) and Pochettino hasn't even started his 2nd season?

Chelsea is still a strong team after Mourinho left them the first time, even the likes of Di Matteo and Avram Grant won shits with the team he left behind, Madrid won their 2 CL title practically the same team he has.

Moyes developing the future better than Mourinho??? What on earth are you smoking, we're in this shit hole because of him

 

[golden_blunder]

I think the 6 months he's had out have done him well, he's had a chance to reflect on tactics and scout young players. I think this job has given him his mojo back.

Since he came in I've certainly got my zest for football back!

 

[redspoony]

I think he is aiming to build a legacy.

He's yet to build a long term legacy anywhere else and this is his last chance to do so.

 

[RedElf]

I think he is aiming to build a legacy.

He's yet to build a long term legacy anywhere else and this is his last chance to do so.

Third manager since SAF retired, hope you right. We need a longer stable period now.

 

[MoBeats]

What are we saying he's actually done? For this thread to be created?

 

[Natener]

Mourinho definitely is more likely to stay long term here than any of his previous clubs because 1. there's no other club (Barca and Bayern are very unlikely to be in for him) to move up to and 2. there's less of a win or sack mentality here. As long as he keeps his form of winning while keeping us competitive during his lull season/s, he can easily stay here for the rest of his club career. The main issue is his conduct which I think he should keep in check better without a nutcase owner or president constantly breathing down his neck.

 

[Viral United]

And all of them have shown more in developing players for the future than Mourinho has. Add Moyes and van Gaal to the list as well, the list is endless.

I'm not saying they are all better managers than Mourinho, or that they have all built dynasties, you didn't ask that, just that they all put some focus on future success at the same time as on present success. Mourinho doesn't, and it costs him, and we need manager who does.

We already have those two gentlemen and I can say they both take us backward then forward.
We don't need manager who thinks about what happen after 5 - 6 season. We need manager who take us forward right now.
Immediate success is as much important as future success. De-Gea was thinking about leaving, and can you blame him after how shit we are in last 3 season?
I also don't like JM but if he can get back where we were I don't mind. Even if that means he will feck off after 3 season I don't care.

 

[Sky1981]

If he wins the league in his 3 years he can feck off to sunshine.

We're in a mess after 3 years of moyes and van gaal, future planning is only coined by united supporters. Barcelona madrid bayern only has one plan : conquer everything infront, plan later

 

[sunama]

He won't give a single player from your youth setup a debut next season. He won't be there in 3 years.

Pencil case cnut.

A CFC fan who is a little bit bitter and throwing some hate in our direction.
For the last 3 years I have missed this.

 

[duffer]

A CFC fan who is a little bit bitter and throwing some hate in our direction.
For the last 3 years I have missed this.

In all honestly I hope he does well (you can finish second and win the Champions League this upcoming season). I still like the man.

I really just wanted to call someone a pencil case cnut.

 

[sunama]

We're in a mess after 3 years of moyes and van gaal, future planning is only coined by united supporters. Barcelona madrid bayern only has one plan : conquer everything infront, plan later

Some fans don't quite understand that winning is the most important thing.
Moyes played a mixture of youth and the Old Guard - he got 7th and got fired.
LVG played a lot of youth players - he got 5th and got fired.
If another manager wins the league (regardless of the age of the players used), you can bet that he will stay and probably be asked to sign a contract extension.
In the cut throat World of football, its all about winning.

 

[sunama]

In all honestly I hope he does well (you can finish second and win the Champions League this upcoming season). I still like the man.

I know dude, just having a laugh is all.
Though I think you'd be pissed off if we won the league in the next 2 seasons and CFC finished in 2nd. I'd be gutted as a CFC fan if that happened.