José Mourinho | Does anybody else think he is building for the future. Long Term!

[Stormsurfer21]

I believe Mourinho is planning for the long term. He has said before that he wants to stay for a longer period and wants to build 'a dynasty'.

First of all he will make sure that we a have strong core and he'll build on that the coming years. He left Chelsea twice leaving behind a pretty good core. Some other posters have said this too.

I really think this is Mourinho's dream job and that he is hungrier than ever to prove himself. The world of football is a very unpredictable and harsh one, so let's stay cautious.

I do hope though I'm right and Mourinho stays for years to come.

 

[tartanbornandred]

The axis of his first Chelsea side which consisted of Cech-Terry-Essien-Lampard-Drogba continued to do well long after he left. They made it to two CL finals, they won one more PL title and generally managed to stay at a very high level for a long period of time. If leaving 5 automatic starters behind you doesn't qualify as good team building, then i honestly don't know what does. Plus he established a way of playing that Chelsea haven't abandoned since he first appointed him as manager.

Real Madrid also won the CL the year after he was sacked, they were in the mix for the La Liga title too until the very end and the players didn't look worn out either physically or mentally too. Two things are quite funny about his tenure at Madrid. The first is that the little trick with AdM in a free role in the attacking half, which helped Ancelotti's campaign a lot that year, was Mourinho's idea. The other one is that what actually sparked the fuel of rebellion in Madrid's dressing room and ultimately gave Jose a bad name was his assessment of Casillas. People choose to focus solely on his fallout with the primadonas but rarely state the obvious: That Mourinho was right about Iker and that at any other club, they would have bought another keeper instead of sacking the manager.

Even after his disastrous season with Chelsea he left behind a team with a strong backbone, Courtois-Cahill-Azpi-Matic-Fabregas-Hazard-Willian and Costa. That's not a side in dire need of a massive overhaul in the next five years or so. You can build something good on that.

Of course he leaves some good players behind, he builds very good sides and gets sacked before they get too old. But you cannot credit him for Cech, Terry, or Lampard from your list of his first Chelsea term; he inherited them, do you credit van Gaal for De Gea, Smalling, Carrick, & Rooney? Essien and Drogba were great signings though.

Similarly at Real, I think only Modric from the recent Champions League win was his signing. Of the 8 players you list from his recent Chelsea team, only 4 were his signings.

What Mourinho does exceptionally well is assemble a strong team and motivate them. He does this using the players he inherits at clubs, and by signing top players, and this is all fine.

Where I think he is limited is that it always only lasts a short period of time, the successful team he builds gets stale/burnt out/sick of him and he is sacked. He leaves some good players, but for the duration of his tenure he has focussed entirely on his one strong side, with no development of players for tomorrow. That's ok if you sign top ready made players every season like Real and too a lesser extent Chelsea; or if a long period of rebuilding is acceptable if it is a result of overachievement like at Inter and Chelsea. But at United we don't sign several top stars every summer, and we have just experienced long rebuild and not enjoyed it.

Mourinho basically uses up resources at a club and doesn't help create any for the next side; so clubs have to rely on other managers before and after; developing players for him and then to rebuild after he leaves.

Moyes messed up a lot of our continuity and succession planning, and the rebuild and squad overhaul under van Gaal was not enjoyable. Whatever success Mourinho brings us, my concern is that his approach guarantees that in a few seasons we will need another rebuild and overhaul, and will have missed out on potential youth products along the way. Mourinho's approach is not conducive to sustained domination like we used to enjoy, and Bayern and Barca currently have, surely sustained domination has to be our goal.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

@tartanbornandred

I can give him credit for making Terry, Lampard and co. Chelsea legends because they reached their absolute peak as footballers and played some of the best football of their careers under Mourinho. Helping players reach their full potential isn't something that can be applied only to 18 year olds, it's an ongoing process. He made Cech his number one when he already had Cudicini, he helped Lampard make the transition from AM to CM and he made Terry captain and a focal point of his Chelsea side. Unless we take LvG's approach of throwing all the kids into the deep end as the best way of developing players and building a strong first team.

I explained in my previous post why i believe that his success doesn't last for a short period of time. Even when he gets sacked at a club he leaves something behind him, something that the next manager can make good use of in order to prolong the club's success. His Chelsea side continued to compete for all major honors with the players Mourinho had trusted and the tactics he had implemented. I also mentioned that Ancelotti changed very few things when he took over, after Mourinho, at Madrid.

I don't expect him to last 10 years at OT, what's expected of him though is to bridge the gap between the bright future we may have with all these talented players and the dreadful mess that's currently our first team. That, in my eyes, is called progress and moving forward. If in three years time Mourinho leaves the club but has also created a backbone of a first team that can achieve good things with players in fixed roles and with most of them having 5, 6 or more good footballing years ahead of them, then he will be a cracking success.

In my initial post in this thread i mentioned that he's well informed about the club's transfer policy and the importance of giving academy players a fair chance. The fact that he still took the job (he's an intelligent individual and knows his limitations, we can't take that away from him) and looks pretty confident makes me think that he has more faith in our players than most of the fans here on this forum. As for the future United side, it's up to the board and the next manager to make the right decisions. I'm sure Ferguson would agree with that... You can go down the Moyes/Rafa route and destroy everything or you can choose the right man for the job (Poch or Tuchel maybe in three years?) and maintain your status as a top club worldwide.

 

[Utd7]

I'll go out on a limb and say that Manchester United will be the last club job of his career. Where else would he go? Already conquered Italy, Portugal and Spain. He has the Chelsea return out of his system and has said on record he's not fond of the lack of competition in France (which should rule out a future job with PSG). Furthermore indications point out that the United job was the one he wanted for years. I see him replicating close to a ten year run if he manages up to his standards which I fully expect he will. Last season was a blip on what has otherwise been a stellar and successful career.
You can also see he's already building for the future with Bailly and possibly Embolo coming in. Those are classic United signings that were made under youth conscience Sir Alex (under the age of 25, strong with no red character flags.)

 

[Oneunited26]

For Jose to stay long term has some were hinting, he must evolve. We know his sackings, some deserved, some did not, while we don't want Jose to not totally tame the beast of Jose and his personality, he still must balance it out and take a leaf from Ferguson, while fergie would have his fall outs fergie made sure the team had the spotlight. But? we want Jose to use the psychology he uses to get the advantage. Jose has built teams, some pretty good teams, his Porto, chelsea and real madrid teams were some of Jose's best work, and what Jose is good at is ruthless getting his targets in early, he does this at united we got a manager that can finally see us back into the elite

 

[AndyJ1985]

I have no doubt that Mourinho will want to build something special at United. In my opinion he will see his greatest challenge as emulating Ferguson. If he could dominate with us over a prolonged period of time and rebuild title winning teams then he would go down as the greatest manager in history. Whether he's capable of achieving that in the long term is an entirely different matter, and he'll have to change if that is to happen. But yes, I do believe he will be looking at the long term and have a genuine desire to stay with us for a long time. At the end of the day he's never going to get the Barcelona or Bayern jobs, so after the United job the only way is down. It would be very foolish of him to self destruct and jeopardise the chance he's been given.

 

[Harry190]

He just signed Alex Hunter.

Promising player apparently.

Here's a video.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

@tartanbornandred

I can give him credit for making Terry, Lampard and co. Chelsea legends because they reached their absolute peak as footballers and played some of the best football of their careers under Mourinho. Helping players reach their full potential isn't something that can be applied only to 18 year olds, it's an ongoing process. He made Cech his number one when he already had Cudicini, he helped Lampard make the transition from AM to CM and he made Terry captain and a focal point of his Chelsea side. Unless we take LvG's approach of throwing all the kids into the deep end as the best way of developing players and building a strong first team.

I explained in my previous post why i believe that his success doesn't last for a short period of time. Even when he gets sacked at a club he leaves something behind him, something that the next manager can make good use of in order to prolong the club's success. His Chelsea side continued to compete for all major honors with the players Mourinho had trusted and the tactics he had implemented. I also mentioned that Ancelotti changed very few things when he took over, after Mourinho, at Madrid.

I don't expect him to last 10 years at OT, what's expected of him though is to bridge the gap between the bright future we may have with all these talented players and the dreadful mess that's currently our first team. That, in my eyes, is called progress and moving forward. If in three years time Mourinho leaves the club but has also created a backbone of a first team that can achieve good things with players in fixed roles and with most of them having 5, 6 or more good footballing years ahead of them, then he will be a cracking success.

In my initial post in this thread i mentioned that he's well informed about the club's transfer policy and the importance of giving academy players a fair chance. The fact that he still took the job (he's an intelligent individual and knows his limitations, we can't take that away from him) and looks pretty confident makes me think that he has more faith in our players than most of the fans here on this forum. As for the future United side, it's up to the board and the next manager to make the right decisions. I'm sure Ferguson would agree with that... You can go down the Moyes/Rafa route and destroy everything or you can choose the right man for the job (Poch or Tuchel maybe in three years?) and maintain your status as a top club worldwide.

I'm nearly sure he captained Chelsea first 3 or 4 years before Mourinho, think Ranieri even handed him the armband when club captain was injured long term (Desailly maybe??)

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I'm nearly sure he captained Chelsea first 3 or 4 years before Mourinho, think Ranieri even handed him the armband when club captain was injured long term (Desailly maybe??)

I remember it too that he was given the armband in the 2003-04 season when Desailly was injured. But under Mourinho it was the first time Chelsea went into the season with Terry as first captain. It's a different status, officially being given the captaincy, and it comes with certain privileges and responsibilities on the pitch, the training ground and in the dressing room. Similarly, Rooney had worn the armband before but he was officially made first captain by LvG.

 

[Highlyevolved]

I am totally going out on a limb here. So allow me!

With the exception of The Mighty Zlatan. Nearly every bit of business done and almost all players linked with United are young players.

This is not the Jose we were promised!
This is not the Jose we have seen in the past!

All the so called experts said, Jose will bring in recognised established players. Claiming he will not give youth a chance. Well i know its early days and links are not signings. But i am totally surprised and impressed by the apparent direction we are taking.

I am absoloutely delighted with every little thing that has happend since Jose took charge. I would have wished we allowed LVG a day or two to celebrate the FA cup win. But im well over that. Even the Eva situation was handled so well. A potential legal bananna skin if ever there was one. Despite the best efforts of the media, the positivity around the club is refreshing and quite intoxicating compared to recent season.

The attitude and professionalism being shown and all the youth being mentioned. Both ours, newly aquired and possibly incoming. I cant help just getting the feeling that Jose might be in this for the long haul. Its just the impression i get.

Do you agree with me or am i overlooking something?

It's an unfair reputation he has. He brought through a high number of youngsters at Madrid, Varane, Jese, Morata while under pressure to perform.

His previous clubs have included Chelsea and Madrid where his remit will have been to buy quality proven players for instant success. He has a slightly different remit at Old Trafford and great leaders can adapt. He'll adapt and be successful I'm sure of it.

 

[Drz]

Signing a young CB, and reportedly chasing Embolo, would suggest a more long term approach.

I'll wait up to december to see who he actually trusts to play for us. A young CB and a young ST could very well turn out to share the fortunes of a young Lukaku and Zouma.

 

[JustAFan]

Let's wait and see who he actually signs, which so far is only one player.

 

[Bruno8]

When it comes to playing/developing young players people should note that there is a difference between buying a 30m rated 22 yr old Bailly with 2-3 yrs top level experience and promoting a raw player like Ro-Shaun Williams from Academy.

So when people are talking about playing/promoting youngsters they are talking more of Rashford/CBJ/TFM rather than a Bailly/Zouma and im sure most people who watch Reserve teams prefer the former rather than the later

 

[Escobar]

I really like what he's been doing so far. Making all the right decisions, bringing new players in that make sense and seem to have the right quality (and dont even cost too much so far). I really cant wait for the new season to begin!

 

[sammsky1]

I like the look of this side a lot .....!!! And only Rooney and Ibra need changing in next 24 months.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

I like the look of this side a lot .....!!! And only Rooney and Ibra need changing in next 24 months.

Could work against parked buses, but we'd get demolished in big games.

 

[Ecstatic]

One of my favourite quotes

 

[Lennon7]

One of my favourite quotes

If that quote refers to the world/life in general (I don't know if it does or not) then it's a terrible quote. Sustainability is incredibly important in this day and age. My poor (future) kids, and their kids, are fecked because of that mentality.

I'm not even an environmentalist either, my carbon footprint is probably shite. I should probably change that, but I just massively disagree with that quote.

Off topic rant over, let's pretend John Keynes said that about Manchester United. Still don't agree because it's not what United are about! I want to see more young players coming through in the next 3-5 years and I want to see them developing together into a world class side within 7-9 or whatever. Obviously buying the best world talent and having a world class side before then is important too.

Wouldn't you like another 26 years of dominance ?

 

[Ecstatic]

@LennonNL I agree with you

Mode Philosophy ON

Sure, the argument 'We don't have to sacrifice the present to reach a very hypothetical long-term scenario' is subject to debates depending the matters.
Another sense 'What matters now is the Real Present not an hypothetical LT Business Plan': I don't want a hopeless 2016/17 season with the hope of ruling Europe in 2020.
Another view 'A successful Present is the best preparation for a better Future'.

Mode Philosophy OFF

 

[Lennon7]

@LennonNL I agree with you

Mode Philosophy ON

Sure, the argument 'We don't have to sacrifice the present to reach a very hypothetical long-term scenario' is subject to debates depending the matters.
Another sense 'What matters now is the Real Present not an hypothetical LT Business Plan': I don't want a hopeless 2016/17 season with the hope of ruling Europe in 2020.
Another view 'A successful Present is the best preparation for a better Future'.

Mode Philosophy OFF

See that, in bold, is why Fergie is the best manager of all time. He set himself up for the future all the time, but still had amazing season after amazing season. Rarely did he sacrifice seasons in hope of a better season in 2/3 years time.

If Mourinho wants to become the best of all time, he needs to do that too. We've signed Ibra who is obviously a short term fix, but Mkhi and Bailly are still relatively young, especially Bailly being 22/23. They could have excellent seasons next season but still perform at their best, and improve, over the next 3/4 years - 8/9 for Bailly.

I certainly get the feeling he's interested in players who will improve the side immediately but also be a long term fix.

 

[Ecstatic]

@LennonNL

As you know, wisdom is to diversify your strategy with:

- a mix of confirmed players (already well-performing) and young promising talents (able to shine in the future)
- versatile & different players to keep all the options open tactically

Regarding SAF, he started to coach United in 1986 and I don't think the initial plan was to wait 7 years to win his 1st EPL title (1993)

 

[Lennon7]

@LennonNL

As you know, wisdom is to diversify your strategy with:

- a mix of confirmed players (already well-performing) and young promising talents (able to shine in the future)
- versatile & different players to keep all the options open tactically

Regarding SAF, he started to coach United in 1986 and I don't think the initial plan was to wait 7 years to win his 1st EPL title (1993)

Well of course, I should've specified post '95. It's a different strategy entirely when you're coming into a brand new club with not a single player of yours.

I think the key is having quality young players - ones that fit both of the necessities you stated above. Squad players and versatile players are always a must have, like you said. We'd have been a lot weaker over the years without your Parks or O'Sheas!

 

[Bruno8]

Long term? Will he still be around by the 3rd season?

 

[#07]

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[Ravelation]

He is buying players he can attract.
Though of course, a long term vision must come into mind with any player you buy,
he wants nothing less than a title this season, which is what is required of any Jose side, and I'm pretty sure he did not sell Zlatan the idea, of coming to a club in which he will mold for the future, Zlatan wants to win, and so does Jose,

Bailly and Miki were bought because they had enough quality, and Jose knew we could attract them.
Half of the Players he wants to bring in, simply won't because of the CL problem.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Give us 5 good years and I'll be happy. We are attracting big names now with Mou and while I can't see him staying for 10 years I think the fact he can pull big names will give us a good base anyway.

 

[Raees]

I like the look of this side a lot .....!!! And only Rooney and Ibra need changing in next 24 months.

That midfield is a joke.. zero work rate and movement. Defensively would get eaten alive.

 

[ants7]

No idea. And before saying "I wish he stays for a long term", I'll wait a season or two to see what's really going to happen to us with him driving us.

 

[Striker10]

He's got a great record. He's moved clubs a fair bit but in terms of building a legacy - I think we're looking at a long stay. I think he'll find more freedom at United, he's happy in England. I think we can relax - providing he doesn't flop

 

[Bruno8]

The guy willbe here for 3 years at most, going by his record at previous clubs

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

The guy willbe here for 3 years at most, going by his record at previous clubs

None of his previous clubs were Manchester United.

 

[keithsingleton]

Course he's building for the future, at the same time he's focusing on getting CL football next year. I've not been this excited for the beginning of the season to start since we did the treble in 99. I'm convinced (( in my head )) he's going to bring the glory days back.

Such my confidants in Mourinho when I was convinced he was coming to Old Trafford I had 1400/200 on them winning the league. Granted I bet with my heart but the odds have now been slashed to 4/1 and that's before a ball has been kicked.

 

[shamans]

Couldn't care less what he is building for. Sick of building philosophies and building teams and transitions. I am all for a sustained club culture (like how SAF built our team) but right now we need results. We need an injection of trophies. We need players in their prime. We need to overpay players who have 3 months left in their contract if need be. Win the premier league and get back in the mix of top clubs!

 

[shaggy]

Couldn't care less what he is building for. Sick of building philosophies and building teams and transitions. I am all for a sustained club culture (like how SAF built our team) but right now we need results. We need an injection of trophies. We need players in their prime. We need to overpay players who have 3 months left in their contract if need be. Win the premier league and get back in the mix of top clubs!

This, this and this.

If he gets results and we get trophies he stays. If he fails he gets sacked and we hire someone else.

We are just like any other club now.

 

[Bruno8]

None of his previous clubs were Manchester United.

Yes there were not United but they also thought they were different at that time

 

[RC89]

Thing is, where else is there really to go for him other than international management? PSG? The only place for him really and even then he's made remarks about not wanting to take the easy job in a league where it's no competition. He was clearly on about PSG when he said that I think.

I just thought, maybe Bayern. But I highly doubt he'll be thinking of leaving. He wants stability, he'd have stayed at Chelsea a while I reckon this time round if it was up to him.

 

[bbest]

Feel we should give Mourino some time to build a team and result. The past 3-year is hopefully, not an indelible mark.

 

[Varun]

Course he's building for the future, at the same time he's focusing on getting CL football next year. I've not been this excited for the beginning of the season to start since we did the treble in 99. I'm convinced (( in my head )) he's going to bring the glory days back.

Such my confidants in Mourinho when I was convinced he was coming to Old Trafford I had 1400/200 on them winning the league. Granted I bet with my heart but the odds have now been slashed to 4/1 and that's before a ball has been kicked.

You mean 1300/325, don't you?

 

[Android1974]

The problem is always the same: the man is (too) intense! Just by listening to his (wonderful) first press-conference, one can sense that it's hard not to be tired of him after a while.

 

[jymufc20]

Is he ever going to buy a house in manchester ?