Why would a coup that leads to a genuinely pro remain Labour Party disenfranchise the young? If they are switched on as everyone says (most young people didn't vote) they will realise that Corbyn has let them down badly. Personally I think this whole mess is an opportunity to form a credible opposition now the Tories are really on the ropes.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Not sure why?
Because they voted him in. With a record number of new memberships in the wake of the GE. And in a climate where Brexit was in part a (misguided) democratic revolt against the political elites and their perceived rejection of the average voter's views, I don't see how the Labour Party seeming to do the exact same thing, to one of the few sections of society that still largely support them, is going to suddenly ring in a new dawn of cohesive harmony. They never forgave Clegg for his "betrayal"
However much you/I/we may personally agree with ousting Corbyn, ideologically (or even tactically) the timing and manner of it looks terrible. Especially as this should be the perfect time to be grilling the backtracking bullshit of Gove, BJ & Farage, rather than creating another, self made, internal crisis, and ESPECIALLY (all caps) as there's no real stand out alternative to ring in this supposed new, strong, Labour dawn. Again, omni-shambles.
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Love the way Hilary Benn said:
we've had loads of people who have been good leaders in charge of this country, but far to few decent men!
hmmmm what would i prefer a decent man who may not be the best leader, or a great leader who isnt a decent man? a decent man every time!
we've had loads of people who have been good leaders in charge of this country, but far to few decent men!
My friends who are Corbyn supporters say they will not forgive him for his no show during the referendum campaign.
A decent man who isn't a leader will never get elected so the point is moot.
sadly you are probably right, we will end with just another slug who knows how to work the media.
Then there's no reason to block him from another leadership ballot. Another vote is fine (albeit chaotic) but trying to force his outright resignation isn't, IMO. At the very least from a PR point of view.
I still think he will win but with a much smaller margin.
Another warmonger gone and we're still over a week away from Chilcot 
Corbyn may actually be so principled he'll fall on his sword for the good of the party.
Part of me thinks so. I don't think he'd want to destroy his party out of spite...which would ironically benefit his opponents.
If go as far as saying he's a decent man but not a decent politician.
He's more suited to a protest party than the main opposition.
It's a sadder reflection of politics than the man himself.
Out of interest, would you say Jo Cox was a warmonger?Another warmonger gone and we're still over a week away from Chilcot
I doubt Corbyn could grill a sandwich
Absolutely. A combination of the press and the public's love of a 'polished' politico. You have to succumb to populist measures to stand a chance.
Nope, she opposed Blair's clusterfeck in Iraq and hasn't spent the time since trying to block investigations into it
your right on all accounts, but its still sad that men like that can't be great politicians.
i don't even nessicssarly agree with all his politics, but he at least seems to be honest, genuinely care and be in politics to try and better the country. how many politicians ever can you say that about?
its just a shame that politics has become about theatre, catchy slogans, looking and sounding the right way... if their was more men like him in parliament, both on the left and the right we would have a far better country.
Wanted us to go into Syria and oust Assad, though.
And yet all the people who can have abdicated that responsibility in favour of splitting their own party in two. George Foreman himself couldn't have been more self interested, and he named 5 of his children George!
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She made her case and did a damn sight more to attempt to protect civilians and aid workers alike than the rest. Especially Hilary Benn and his much lauded at the time speech. Only thing missing was him ripping his shirt open and beating his chest like King Kong while a Union flag waved behind him.
Corbyn lives in what looks like an unkempt gardeners shed, yet being in London it'll be worth five times my gaff.
It's the Tory way, to deflect from actual issues and to try to dumb down politics. As long as Labour continue to play to their games, they're probably going to struggle to diverge from the Tories as much as would be ideal.
that's an incredible fact.And look, I'm far from thrilled with the way this is playing out. There is no way Labour should be dominating headlines tonight. The PLP has been horribly opportunistic. And Corbyn has received continually unfair treatment. e.g. the coverage of a single Liz Kendall campaigning heckler yesterday.
But given that the majority of those who supported Corbyn will have wanted a Remain vote, he should probably have given his position much greater consideration than he appears to have done.
I've just seen a statement shared on facebook of Burnham saying he'd never take part in a coup, is that real?
Corbyn Statement said:
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Might be. As done as Corbyn looks to some, with the Unions backing him completely, and his militant new fans (hundreds of thousands), I don't think he can be ousted. Burnham probably knows this. Labour are throwing the dice now, but it may not work the way they want. If this goes to a leadership election, and if Corbyn wins again, then those MPs will have to either tow the line or leave the party (as their base would be clearly telling them what they want them to do).
They're making a calculated gamble that Corbyn won't want to face a no confidence motion, and won't want to go through a leadership challenge. It might be a good gamble, but it looks like it might not. He doesn't seem to be a man who's about to resign.
I don't get this, it's been taken to wierd extremes and just comes across as opportunism. He did plenty of highly visible interviews and his cabinet did the main debates (and failed themselves). It seems a bit pathetic as if he'd have done just one of those debates would it not have been a no show?
Corbyn was not winning anyone over. Benn as a leader would not have won anyone over either. There was enough debate for the public to be fully informed and consider all angles.
Lisa Nandy, Angela Eagle and John Healey aim to meet with Corbyn tomorrow to tell him to go, according to the Huffington Post - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...corbyn-leadership_uk_5770426ee4b0d2571149dcd4
Being leader of the Labour party without the soft left on side is not entirely plausible.
Being leader of the Labour party without the soft left on side is not entirely plausible.
The idea that Corbyn would've had any influence on the Brexit vote - and has thus somehow betrayed his core electorate - is opportunist nonsense. He wouldn't have changed anything with a more visible campaign. He was always stuck between a rock and a racist place. The whole thing was a Tory-made clusterfeck, and all this achieves is gifting them a shelter from the backlash at the most opportune time to be highlighting it.
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His low-key approach was the correct one. No need to publicise that the entire party leadership - from centre-right to left- disagreed with a good part (non-London/Liverpool/Manchester) of the base on this issue.
The word "opportunist" is odd there, as we've had several people that voted for him in September on this forum say they feel let down by him on the issue. They weren't being opportunistic, they're genuinely gutted, and somewhat annoyed that the leader they put a lot of faith in was a "7 and a half out of 10" on the matter for them.
It is if he gains a renewed mandate. It would be pretty terrible to have another leadership election, but if he wins convincingly again, then those other MPs will simply have to realign their views.
He's said that he will stand, so I guess we'll know by tomorrow.
Well they should probably question themselves on not knowing his views on the matter having voted for him but also that they can only be satisfied by leaders who only talk in absolutes. Are you seriously saying to make the argument for the EU you had to pretend it had no flaws?
It's interesting that even Cameron made the on balance argument and admitted it's flaws but Corbyn doing it is treachery to the PLPs strategy of talking as if people are idiots.
Despite knowing how harmful it will be to Labour, part of me wants him to stand again just as a "feck you" to these stupid MPs.
All I've seen is an anecdotal story tbf.
The opportunism in question refers more to the shadow cabinet coup brigade, who are using something clearly beyond Corbyn's control as an excuse for downing tools to force him out.
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which we have seen so clearly in the last month, we should have seen intelligent people having intelligent discussions, their was none of that at all.
always thought that was the issue with new labour, they just cam across as the conservative party for 'new money'(for lack of a better phrase) and its left the voting public with very little choice, you basically have right wing, or slightly less right wing, all who talk and act the same way.
It's either a genuine grievance or not, and given that many in the PLP are just as enthusiastic about EU membership as folk that voted for Corbyn, I'm not sure why they're unable to feel the same way.
And let's not put this down purely to the shadow cabinet acting out, either. It was started by backbenchers tabling a no confidence motion, which was expected to get support from well over 50% of Labour MPs in the secret ballot on Tuesday, meaning Corbyn would explicitly no longer carry the confidence of Labour MPs. Corbyn pre-empted this by sacking Benn, which then triggered the resignations.
The key point in all of this is what Watson mentioned in his statement earlier - the Labour party needs to be ready to govern immediately. We are potentially months away from another general election. Therefore the question that most people expected to be able to dance around until 2020, namely whether people seriously think the public would vote for Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister, is now paramount. Now, I can understand when people will respond to this by saying there's no-one else that looks like a PM in waiting, either. But I can think of a few that could stand at least a chance, and could at least prevent a grown majority. Either we go for that chance, or roll over and let Boris camp down for the next few years.