Clearing up some myths about Roy Keane

gav81

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There is no myth to dispel.
Sure there are, many of them. I've seen a few mentioned on this thread. See the post from @choiboyx012 just above. Basically it's saying that Keane has little to no man-management skills, or at least trails Ferguson by a long distance. That will be the next myth to address.


Had he not been a United Legend as a player, nobody would be trying this hard to pass him off as qualified candidate to manager United based on his actual record.
I think it would be daft to ignore that Keane is a United legend and thereby omit most of his record, achievements and experience from the equation. But in any case, I didn't create this thread to talk about the United management position.
 

gav81

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Keane himself said he lost it. You quoted him yourself. What do you think he meant? I think he means he lost his rag as, quite obviously, he did.

His inability to not lose his head on occasion was a failing as a professional.
Yes, lost his rag, I agree with that interpretation. Next question, do you think Ferguson ever lost his rag? And does that mean he couldn't control himself? Was it his failing as a professional?
 

JB08

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Someone posted this in full to /r/reddevils on reddit, was it one of you guys?
 

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Yes, lost his rag, I agree with that interpretation. Next question, do you think Ferguson ever lost his rag? And does that mean he couldn't control himself? Was it his failing as a professional?
Yes. A lot of his behaviour was unpleasant and unprofessional and he clearly on occasion lost control. The fact that he is one of the greatest managers of all time shouldn't deflect from that. I don't see what this has to do with the thread though?

You see gav it's all very well starting a thread to dispel supposed myths but you're now straying into the realm of blindly defending everything about Keane. Keane himself admits he has problems specifically with managing his anger. This is not a myth and the fact that you don't agree means you are in disagreement with Roy Keane about Roy Keane. You paint a picture of him, presumably from inside your head, that the man himself doesn't paint.
 

.Rossi

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It is quite funny how certain posters on here will rubbish Keane into the ground, calling into question his traits as a human being and forget everything he done for the club and the things he does for those outside of football....

But, dare call into question someone from the CO92, or say Fergie was wrong in a situation or two and boom goes the dynamite :D

Standards
 

.Rossi

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Yes. A lot of his behaviour was unpleasant and unprofessional and he clearly on occasion lost control. The fact that he is one of the greatest managers of all time shouldn't deflect from that. I don't see what this has to do with the thread though?

You see gav it's all very well starting a thread to dispel supposed myths but you're now straying into the realm of blindly defending everything about Keane. Keane himself admits he has problems specifically with managing his anger. This is not a myth and the fact that you don't agree means you are in disagreement with Roy Keane about Roy Keane. You paint a picture of him, presumably from inside your head, that the man himself doesn't paint.
Keane is quite controlled for a Cork man :D
 

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Yes. A lot of his behaviour was unpleasant and unprofessional and he clearly on occasion lost control. The fact that he is one of the greatest managers of all time shouldn't deflect from that. I don't see what this has to do with the thread though?

You see gav it's all very well starting a thread to dispel supposed myths but you're now straying into the realm of blindly defending everything about Keane. Keane himself admits he has problems specifically with managing his anger. This is not a myth and the fact that you don't agree means you are in disagreement with Roy Keane about Roy Keane. You paint a picture of him, presumably from inside your head, that the man himself doesn't paint.
Ouch
 

acnumber9

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It is quite funny how certain posters on here will rubbish Keane into the ground, calling into question his traits as a human being and forget everything he done for the club and the things he does for those outside of football....

But, dare call into question someone from the CO92, or say Fergie was wrong in a situation or two and boom goes the dynamite :D

Standards
It works exactly the other way. Things you or others would lambast Scholes for is brushed under the carpet. The big difference is that none of the others said they didn't care about Manchester United anymore. Therein lies the difference. There is also the fact that almost to a man those who defend Keane to the death are his fellow countrymen.
 

.Rossi

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It works exactly the other way. Things you or others would lambast Scholes for is brushed under the carpet. The big difference is that none of the others said they didn't care about Manchester United anymore. Therein lies the difference. There is also the fact that almost to a man those who defend Keane to the death are his fellow countrymen.
No....Just Keane saying he still loves United, says they're his team and is a season ticket holder.

fecking hates us does Roy.
 

.Rossi

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acnumber9

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Clearly was still bitter over how he was treated and the club threatening him with legal action.....Time is a great healer etc etc

But, I'm only saying that because I'm Irish, isn't that right?
6 years later. It was strange timing for him to decide he cared about United again. I'd say your nationality plays a part in the hero worship. It happens. Fantastic player but to pretend he's always cared about United is nonsense. He let a disagreement with one man tarnish his affiliation. I don't see why I should still love him after it.
 

.Rossi

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6 years later. It was strange timing for him to decide he cared about United again. I'd say your nationality plays a part in the hero worship. It happens. Fantastic player but to pretend he's always cared about United is nonsense. He let a disagreement with one man tarnish his affiliation. I don't see why I should still love him after it.
Can love whomever you want to love. Don't have to answer to me or anyone else
 

.Rossi

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Is that not the purpose of the thread? To tell people how wrong they are about Keane?
I didn't start the thread :D . Not really arsed participating in it either. I just do find it quite funny that certain posters in this thread, will shoot down people for liking Keane or for defending him but, will jump to the aid of say, one of the C092 for example, or even Fergie, despite them saying or doing something wrong and then call you a hater or accuse you of having some sort of "agenda"

I find that quite strange and quite weird. Other than that, people can love or hate who they want.
 

acnumber9

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I didn't start the thread :D . Not really arsed participating in it either. I just do find it quite funny that certain posters in this thread, will shoot down people for liking Keane or for defending him but, will jump to the aid of say, one of the C092 for example, or even Fergie, despite them saying or doing something wrong and then call you a hater or accuse you of having some sort of "agenda"

I find that quite strange and quite weird. Other than that, people can love or hate who they want.
But it works on the exact same other side. You can see it in this thread. People will criticise Scholes or others but not do the same to Roy Keane. A large part of it is because of a preference for certain players. Keane has also taken it further than the others if we break it down into brass tax. The myth he's always cared is one that has now been cleared up. It shouldn't be weird that Manchester United fans in general will have a greater affinity to Alex Ferguson than Roy Keane and their opinions will be influenced by that.
 

.Rossi

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But it works on the exact same other side. You can see it in this thread. People will criticise Scholes or others but not do the same to Roy Keane. A large part of it is because of a preference for certain players. Keane has also taken it further than the others if we break it down into brass tax. The myth he's always cared is one that has now been cleared up. It shouldn't be weird that Manchester United fans in general will have a greater affinity to Alex Ferguson than Roy Keane and their opinions will be influenced by that.
Don't know if that's aimed at me. I've said Keane has been wrong on many occasions. I love Fergie but he's been wrong on many occasions.
If Keane comes out tomorrow and says something I don't like, you'll find me shooting him down. Just like I have with anyone else, when they said or done something I don't agree with.

But things like, "Oh Keane was wrong to kick Haaland" and then, when it comes out that Robbo encouraged him to do it, people say, "Ah good old Robson. What a guy" There are double standards on things like that.

Just an observation really. Discussed this before and I'm not really that arsed going back over it tbh
 

acnumber9

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Don't know if that's aimed at me. I've said Keane has been wrong on many occasions. I love Fergie but he's been wrong on many occasions.
If Keane comes out tomorrow and says something I don't like, you'll find me shooting him down. Just like I have with anyone else, when they said or done something I don't agree with.

But things like, "Oh Keane was wrong to kick Haaland" and then, when it comes out that Robbo encouraged him to do it, people say, "Ah good old Robson. What a guy" There are double standards on things like that.

Just an observation really. Discussed this before and I'm not really that arsed going back over it tbh
It's just in general. It's prevalent in this thread anyway. Some overcompensate for Keane because they feel he's getting a bad wrap. For me he's brought it on himself. If we're comparing him to Scholes who is the other getting stick recently the difference for me is that it's clear Scholes always has and always will care about United and wants to see them play attacking football. Like most of us. You may not agree with what he says or find him boring but it's said from the heart. Keane did and said what he did because he didn't like Alex Ferguson.

If we're talking about Keane the player he's one of the best I've seen. I think it's nonsense to say Alex Ferguson needed him to be successful but he was definitely a big part in one of our best teams. Since he left I think he's been a dick and since he doesn't care about United fans I find myself caring less about him.
 

gav81

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Yes. A lot of his behaviour was unpleasant and unprofessional and he clearly on occasion lost control. The fact that he is one of the greatest managers of all time shouldn't deflect from that. I don't see what this has to do with the thread though?
We are just having a discussion, that's all :)


So when on occasion Keane lost his rag (such as the Highbury tunnel incident that started our discussion), it is comparable to the times Ferguson lost his rag. Ok, thank you, I'm happy to leave it at that.
 

gav81

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False: Keane has no man-management skills

  • “There were explosive moments with him as manager but that wasn't a problem. Sometimes the manager upset a player because he wanted to win so badly. He had that desire and that rubbed off on us. You had to do well because if you didn't, he would let you know. You had to do well and I think players realised that and played for him. Of course he lost his temper and there was a fear about the place but he also looked after his players and he earned massive respect for that.”
  • “We were celebrating in the dressing room when the door was flung open and he made it pretty clear what he thought. He was going mad and said those levels were unacceptable. At the time I thought it was remarkable . I couldn't get my head round what was happening.”
  • “Without doubt there was fear. I certainly feared him in some regards. That was what he wanted to instil. You either climbed the peaks with him or you disappeared. It was a constant test and constant demand. Only now looking back, do I see how rigorous it was. You knew when you were playing badly. At half-time I would look at my boots and hope I wasn't the one he would be coming for. He is prepared to tell you what he wants and if you are not prepared to deliver he will tell you.”

Oh Keane, you can't carry on like this! At least, anyone could be forgiven for thinking those quotes refer to Roy Keane's early management career. But no, they are actually all talking about Alex Ferguson in his time at Aberdeen. Here is a more recent one: -

“I remember sometimes when we do something bad or we lost some games he kicked the chairs and he kicked the boots, he kicked everything, the waters, the drinks. And he's so red and, 'feck you, you should pass the ball, you'...”

~Cristiano Ronaldo on Ferguson's anger​


Why am I going on about Ferguson?

Well, he is probably the greatest manager of all time and a master of man-management according to most. There is even one story of Ferguson having such an effect in his early management career that his own player punched him and knocked him to the ground before he bounced back up and continued bawling at him. In recent times alone, there have been well-documented fall outs with Stam, Heinze, Beckham, van Nistelrooy, Keane, Hargreaves, Tevez, Rooney. I think this shows even Ferguson did not have a perfect record in dealing with players and it would not be reasonable to expect.

It would be fair to say this is the bar to judge Keane against and that in all he has proven a very good match to Ferguson. The quotes above show Keane's early management style to be quite comparable to Ferguson's style. And how many players has Keane fallen out with anyway? A couple at each of his clubs?

Yet Keane has learnt from this and is quite aware of the effect he has as a manager: -

“Obviously different players have different traits. How you speak to them, who you shout at, who you don't.”

~Roy Keane


“You try to find different ways to motivate people. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. People on the outside might take it up the wrong way.

“My job is to motivate players, to push people and try and get them to another level. That will never change. I’m sick of saying it but I have been like that since I was a young player.

“There’s ways of doing it. I’d like to think I get it right a lot but if there are times you think “well, maybe that was a bit harsh” I’ll have no problem saying to somebody “listen, that was maybe a bit unfair.” You hold your hand up.”


~Roy Keane​


As someone mentioned on this thread, the trick is to get the balance right and have a feel for what each player needs. As Keane says, and as Ferguson also demonstrated, no manager will get it right all the time. But if the positives far outweigh the negatives then we are onto something and Keane has certainly achieved that.

A selection of testimony on Keane's man-management skills as both a captain and manager: -

“Off the field as a captain he was amazing, especially to us young lads. He’d look after us with contracts and things like that.

“He used to pick me up occasionally for training and take me home.

“He was a really great guy and I cannot thank him enough for everything he did for me.”


~ Luke Chadwick


“Roy was always wanting the best and he’d always look out for me.

“He only wanted the players to improve all of the time. He's a winner and he wanted to be the best.

“It was an absolute pleasure to play alongside him and be in the dressing room with Roy.”


~John O'Shea


“He was a great influence, really. If Roy had a go at you, he did it because he cared. He was the best captain you could wish for.”

~Darren Fletcher


“I remember when Diego Forlán came in, and it wasn’t quite happening for him. If a player tried – and Diego did – we’d drag him with us; we’d try and help him. Plenty of praise in training, or during games; not getting on his back. Diego was honest, so in training you’d go, ‘Unlucky; it’ll come good tomorrow’, not ‘You can do feckin’ better than that.’”

~Roy Keane


“He was a great presence at United, a man who could lift everyone around him. Even when you thought you were giving 100 per cent, he would somehow squeeze another 10 out of you.”

~Gary Neville


“Roy is a great leader and can cajole team-mates into better performances.”

~Phil Neville


“He was the manager on the football pitch. If you did something wrong you knew about it. He tried to get the best out of everyone to get a result for his team.”

~Paul Scholes


“His motivation worked. He only wanted the best.”

~Andy Cole


“He wants better things all the time and he is a great manager to have around you. He is always trying to get the best out of everyone and produce a great team.

“As a player, it has got to come from yourself, a bit of belief and a bit of drive and a bit of will to win. But the manager has a big influence on that. The lads are oozing with confidence now.”


~Phil Bardsley, Sunderland


“That season when I signed for Sunderland I only played about 10 games because I had a hairline fracture in my spine.

“Throughout that season I was very upset and I put on a lot of weight and I got bigger. But just before the end Roy took me into his office and we had a massive conversation.

“He inspired me to go away in the summer and come back in better shape than I had ever been in. I went and played very well the following season.

“He gave me some strong words of encouragement to go and do that and I will always appreciate it.

“A lot of people don’t know him on a personal level but he definitely has that side to him.”


~Kieran Richardson, Sunderland


"He gave me my debut at Sunderland and had a huge impact over my career. So I have got a lot of thanks to him for that.

"I can never really repay him for that, he started my career as a professional footballer, I learnt a lot from him while I was at Sunderland."

"To work under him was amazing."


~Jordan Henderson, Sunderland


"I have a lot of respect for our old boss Roy.

"He was a nice man. He had a positive impact on every player at the club, he had an aura about him - he's Roy Keane!

"Someone like that is always going to be missed. My game improved under him and it continues to – hopefully."


~Grant Leadbitter, Sunderland


“People look at him and think he is an angry manager, but he gets the best out of players. He got the best out of me.

“I think he would be a great manager now given the opportunity, I really do think that.”


~Danny Higginbotham, Sunderland


"He told me to believe in my ability and, having played in the same position, he taught me a few things about the game which are really helping now. He was very good at building my confidence up.

"I've been on the receiving end of a few of his dressing-room tantrums, but he only did that when it was deserved, when the team hadn't performed. And, much as he could really dish it out, he was always very quick to praise you when you did well."


~Jack Colback, Ipswich


“He is a good manager, passionate about what he does. If you play rubbish, I like a manager to come in and kick me up the backside and tell me what he thinks. Roy was like that.”

~Andros Townsend, Ipswich


“He is actually quite calm most of the time and he is brilliant at taking the pressure off the players.”

~David Norris, Ipswich


“Every time I'm around the squad, he's flooded me with confidence and he's one of the main reasons for my success, so I thank Roy for all his help.”

~Jack Grealish, Aston Villa


“Personally speaking he was fantastic for me. He always made me feel good and he always put in some good finishing sessions. I can’t speak highly enough of him and for me he was fantastic.”

~Darren Bent, Aston Villa


“I had a good working relationship with him. You could always go and talk with him whenever you wanted.”

~Alan Hutton, Aston Villa


“But as time has gone on he's fine to talk to. He's there for advice and he's a good coach. I think he's really enjoying it as well which is important.”

~Seamus Coleman, Republic of Ireland


"Of course he doesn't come in singing and dancing in the morning! But he is a friendly man to speak to and very helpful if you have any questions."

~Eunan O'Kane, Republic of Ireland​


So the next time you see a story that Keane has fallen out with a player or poisoned a dressing room, either from the past or in the future, perhaps consider that it's more to do with the media looking for a sensationalist headline, and actually Keane's positive record of man-management far outweighs the negative - not so different to Ferguson's management style and record in fact.
 

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I think a great trait to have when following a hero is to sometimes realise that they can be wrong and not seek to justify everything they have ever done. Some objectivity.

Bringing up the ills of others like Fergie or Scholes doesn't really take away from times when Keane was wrong himself. It seems instead of focusing on those, some getout clause is take everything of tangent.

This thread is just a mess.
 

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From a personal point of view it's eye opening to read a lot of those quotes. Thanks OP.

Shame we didn't play against those Barcelona sides at a time when he was in the team as I honestly believe he'd have battered them into submission.
 

gav81

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I think a great trait to have when following a hero is to sometimes realise that they can be wrong and not seek to justify everything they have ever done. Some objectivity.

Bringing up the ills of others like Fergie or Scholes doesn't really take away from times when Keane was wrong himself. It seems instead of focusing on those, some getout clause is take everything of tangent.
I acknowledged in the post above that Keane has fallen out with players. And I’ll add, in an ideal world it would be better had he not.

I didn’t mean to present the examples given as ‘ills of Fergie’ – obviously his management style is fantastic and I think that aggression and ruthlessness he possessed are ultimately what kept the players on their toes, the squad fresh and ensured success season after season. The intention is only to use that to provide some perspective when it comes to Keane. You know, if it was good enough for Ferguson…

Also, I’d just like to say, to anyone who thinks Keane is some sort of idol to me, or even my favourite player, or that I must be Irish, etc, you would be completely wrong. I’m not one for putting anyone on a pedestal and I dislike the celebrity culture of today - I don't get all that. My interest goes much deeper than Keane per se, actually to my belief of what is best for Manchester United, and that's where my real obsession sits.

But again, all this thread is about is setting the record straight and putting some less widely reported detail out here for anyone who might not have seen it.
 

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Sure there are, many of them. I've seen a few mentioned on this thread. See the post from @choiboyx012 just above. Basically it's saying that Keane has little to no man-management skills, or at least trails Ferguson by a long distance. That will be the next myth to address.




I think it would be daft to ignore that Keane is a United legend and thereby omit most of his record, achievements and experience from the equation. But in any case, I didn't create this thread to talk about the United management position.

C'mon gav the poster you have mentioned is responding on a thread you have started. I believe that you are an intelligent articulate man (unless that's a myth that needs to be dispelled also :)) and therefore know exactly what I mean.

What thread or post sparked the neccessity for the "myths to be dispelled" thread? Imo this obsession stems from someone who feels that Keane has been misrepresented and needs to set the record straight. But why? I don't get it. I think in most fans eyes they already recognise him as a United legend. What is there to defend? I think that if you where a political party people would love your rhetoric but would find it hard to vote for you because you only seem to have one agenda. However I suppose you have somewhat succeeded because I'm here posting on your thread, which I suspect is what you intended.

For the record about Keano tho. I think many people underestimate the contribution he made to the United cause. It could be that for some fans their knowledge of United started from around 1999 onwards. But even during that famous treble winning season, Keano was absolutely immense. I think for possibly that year and the one after he was probably the most important midfielder at the club. Yeah becks and giggsy cocked the gun and Yorke, Cole, ole and Teddy pulled the trigger, but for me Keane was the beating heart of the team. He was/is a brutally honest man who states his opinion as he sees it. No problem there. Again for the record I believe he was right about the Rock of Gibraltar horsey thingy.

Good. Arselicking over!!! However I think that it is a myth that Roy is a genuine hard man. I think that at best Roy has a slight problem with his head. Anger, mental health whatever. Something just doesn't seem right. Does it mean he shouldn't be involved in football? No he can still contribute.

I remember a game at Liverpool when Paul Ince (still mad at being ousted, directed most of his venom at Roy thruout that match for whatever reason) absolutely terrorised poor Roy. There was no hard man then. I remember Coley stepping in and confronting Ince over his behaviour.

The tunnel incident with Arsenal and Veira. They were more bemused by his behaviour than intimidated. They were looking at him like Wtf! Viera was hardly gonna have a punch up with him in the tunnel with him in live tv was he? I think further evidence of this was in the return fixture when the tv cameras were focussed on Roy and Patrick in the hope that it was gonna go off. Nah Viera just kept making stupid faces at Roy until he cracked a smile. What intimidation?

Also anyone who would openly do a player has got to be a tad touched? Ffs we all knew he was going to do it!!!! The fact it was who he did and the team he did it against is the only mitigating factor imo:D. But you can't get away from the fact he has some problems.

So for that reason im afraid I'm out.
 

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What a rubbish response from a Ferguson loyalist. Open your eyes.

I could do one better and say in history.

I also find it laughable that you don't realise that Scholes was one of many ex players used by Ferguson in the media to try to promote the idea of Giggs becoming the new manager. Ferguson craves power and no doubt is livid about the appointment of Mourinho and signing of Pogba. His control is limited now after the Moyes fiasco. Keane didn't criticise the club or fall in in line with this Class of 92 brainwashing. Everything he said about them was correct.
Livid about the appointment of one of his friends who he once said himself could take the United job, logic checks out.
 

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This is a bit too pro-Keane for me to take it seriously. As with most things I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 

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Always loved his name. That 'of the Rovers ' Christian name combined with the avidity implied in his surname long signified him as a heroic character and me as a pretentious twat.
 

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Roy Keane is one of my favourite people in football but happy to acknowledge he won't be everybody's cup of tea. I love his punditry, his way of dealing with media and his performances on the field spoke for themselves.