If so, then this situation is not much different. "Following coach's ideas" is not just about tactics on pitch. Successful coaches always have team playing as a unit and players ready to fight it out when needed. For Jose, this was always important and key thing. So, here he possibly has some players who are not fitting in that idea of his team. If anything he isn't even 'ruthless' here. Let's see if he completely keeps these players aside throughout the season or gives them further chances. I believe latter is likely. What Klopp has done with Sakho or Pep with Yaya is far worse than any of Jose's comments about any United player this season.
Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."
- Thread starter Jacky Quacky
- Start date
It's very interesting, Smalling gets singled out, but Blind's name doesn't really get brought up. Seems a bit weird to me.
Now ever since Frank de Boer criticised him very early on at Ajax for depending on his talent and not going the extra mile, he put in extra work and became a very fit and dedicated professional. At the World Cup 2014, Van Gaal stated that Blind was probably the fittest player in the whole squad. At United he's been very fit too, making 56 appearances last year when our whole squad was plagued by injuries.
As some people know, his dad is under huge pressure as a National Team coach. He got the job in a sleezy way after Hiddink and based on results I think he's the worst performing coach since some guy back in the 1950's. Daley Blind is now, believe it or not, one of the most important players at the Holland national team. We have Robben constantly injured, Memphis struggling and Wijnaldum and Janssen having just arrived at their clubs, so Daley's basically the only one he's been featuring regularly at a genuine big club for the last years. There are two massive matches coming up, first a friendly with Belgium and then a qualifying match, and if we feck that up it's pretty much game over for coach Danny Blind.
So we have a player who's normally very fit, and now suddenly last Sunday he's fit enough to be on the bench but not fit enough to start? Of course he could have had a legitimate problem. But if it had been a Cup Final I think he would've wanted to play, and if it was the same game but not followed by some vital National Team matches where his dad's job is on the the line, I think he would've been ready enough to play too, it's all a bit too convenient for me. After all he was not completely injured and fit enough to be on the bench. This didn't happen though, we now had to take a massive gamble Phil Jones, who was just back in training for a week and hadn't played a match this season.
So then we get back to Mourinho's original comments, which weren't just about criticising some players. He was also very much trying to make a compliment to the players that were ready to scrape out the victory. I think his comments were based on what he sees. On the one hand we have Antonio Valencia, playing half a match with a broken arm. On the other hand we have Shaw, with his brother whining on twitter, complaining about some pain. Sunday we needed Smalling (who actually played with injury against Chelsea, so the media singling him out is ridiculous), or Daley Blind to help us at centre-half to get three points, but because they weren't ready we had to take a ridiculous gamble with Phil Jones. We someone like Mata who's fighting for his place, despite his history with Mourinho, while on the other hand we have Henrikh sulking. We have 35 year old Ibrahimovic giving everything he has, playing match after match, while someone like Schweinsteiger seemed only half interested in being here. I think this is where Mourinho was getting at with his comments.
Now ever since Frank de Boer criticised him very early on at Ajax for depending on his talent and not going the extra mile, he put in extra work and became a very fit and dedicated professional. At the World Cup 2014, Van Gaal stated that Blind was probably the fittest player in the whole squad. At United he's been very fit too, making 56 appearances last year when our whole squad was plagued by injuries.
As some people know, his dad is under huge pressure as a National Team coach. He got the job in a sleezy way after Hiddink and based on results I think he's the worst performing coach since some guy back in the 1950's. Daley Blind is now, believe it or not, one of the most important players at the Holland national team. We have Robben constantly injured, Memphis struggling and Wijnaldum and Janssen having just arrived at their clubs, so Daley's basically the only one he's been featuring regularly at a genuine big club for the last years. There are two massive matches coming up, first a friendly with Belgium and then a qualifying match, and if we feck that up it's pretty much game over for coach Danny Blind.
So we have a player who's normally very fit, and now suddenly last Sunday he's fit enough to be on the bench but not fit enough to start? Of course he could have had a legitimate problem. But if it had been a Cup Final I think he would've wanted to play, and if it was the same game but not followed by some vital National Team matches where his dad's job is on the the line, I think he would've been ready enough to play too, it's all a bit too convenient for me. After all he was not completely injured and fit enough to be on the bench. This didn't happen though, we now had to take a massive gamble Phil Jones, who was just back in training for a week and hadn't played a match this season.
So then we get back to Mourinho's original comments, which weren't just about criticising some players. He was also very much trying to make a compliment to the players that were ready to scrape out the victory. I think his comments were based on what he sees. On the one hand we have Antonio Valencia, playing half a match with a broken arm. On the other hand we have Shaw, with his brother whining on twitter, complaining about some pain. Sunday we needed Smalling (who actually played with injury against Chelsea, so the media singling him out is ridiculous), or Daley Blind to help us at centre-half to get three points, but because they weren't ready we had to take a ridiculous gamble with Phil Jones. We someone like Mata who's fighting for his place, despite his history with Mourinho, while on the other hand we have Henrikh sulking. We have 35 year old Ibrahimovic giving everything he has, playing match after match, while someone like Schweinsteiger seemed only half interested in being here. I think this is where Mourinho was getting at with his comments.
So you would keep players that are not listening to you inside carrington but are listening to you when you use BTSports? In both cases they are screwed if they don't listen to him, so keep it behind closed door.
But we already know that they played through injuries, since Mourinho told us. So he is talking tripe which by the way doesn't change the fact that he can create the culture that he wants within the club.
A very long post that doesn't seem to understand that Blind wad dropped.
That's how it is going to play isn't it, because the good folks with their doctor degrees that utd seemed to employ don't know anything or don't tell the manager when the players are injured or unfit, how bad is mourinho he has already scared the hell out of our poor medical team that they only inform players of their injuries and let players deal with mourinho, sack him, sack him now i say.
I don't understand why Jose criticised players like that. I get what he was trying to say but those words are too harsh. If the players feel pain then it's better not playing so they can stay away from long injury. We have big squad so I don't know why Jose is moaning about, if we have small squad, I understand if he's moaning about players who refused to play due to little pain in public.
Well that wouldn't explain why we have a coach complaining about players not wanting to play with some pain, while at the same time taking a ridiculous (perhaps even irresponsible) gamble with Phil Jones, a player who's already nearly had his career ruined with injuries. So Blind wasn't on the bench because he felt he wasn't fully fit, he was ready to play but Jose dropped him because he thought Jones with no match rhytm was a better option? Makes no sense to me.
Jones had been back in FULL training for 10 days, nothing was irresponsible and certainly not "ridiculous".
Jose mentioned himself that Blind was struggling playing RCB as that takes away the thing he is best at.
Indeed. Seems to be a bit of a Hobson's choice for injured players. If you play whilst nowhere near 100% and you're crap the fans,the manager and the press turn on you. If you admit that you're not at your full potential because of some injury or other, the manager calls you out in public. It was Swansea, it was an easy win and
José should just leave it at that.
Jose had senior players at Chelsea which he could rely on, Lampard, Terry, Cech, Drogba etc and they became the back bone of the team. In reality three of them already were when Jose arrived. Before the season started I thought he would seek out a backbone and build on that but it hasn't gone entirely to plan. I thought he would "rebuild" Rooney and incorporate Pogba and Ibrahimovic a little better than he has so far. I know Rooney is unpopular with a number of Utd fans but he is definitely a Jose type player and I still think he will stick with him.( I thought he was quite good at the weekend.) A large number of Utd fans are saying Jose needs time, maybe 2 or 3 seasons, to get things back to where they need to be and they maybe right. The problem is that history tells us that he just doesn't last that long anywhere. I agree things haven't gone that bad just yet but it's a fine line with Jose. If he lets his Latino temperament get the better of him he could easily have another lost dressing room on his hands. I agree problems between managers and players sometimes work themselves out and sometimes there never was a problem in the first place. I am surprised that Mata has featured so heavily this season, I thought he was going before the season started but he seems to be having a degree of success. I still doubt that he will form part of the backbone even though he certainly could.Yes, Siege mentality can't always work, particularly with the current gen of players. It is something I want United to develop though, at least temporarily. We need that. That mentality can't be developed if players act soft. I don't blame Shaw or Smalling in this case and think they had reason to be tentative about playing if they are carrying knocks but overall in last 3 years the United squad has been too timid. If Jose has senior players on his side, others will know that they have to step up. Things look bad between managers and certain players sometime and then magically it becomes all fine. As United fan, I am hoping same is case here. In fact, to me it doesn't seem to have gone that bad in this case. Some player/manager relations come back from worse.
Yes, he needs to start smiling again. Probably combination of things keeping him grumpy.
Was it before Chelsea game where Mourinho said that he won't go in details of what went wrong last season? Maybe we will have to wait for his autobiography after retirement to know his side
I doubt if Jose knows what went wrong last season. If he knew surely he would have fixed it. What I do know is that with almost the same players this season Chelsea have started to play some of the best football I can remember seeing at Stamford Bridge so it must have been a Jose problem.
I don't understand what you mean by saying Blind was 'dropped'. The headline I read, from the website of a very reliable footballing magazine, read: Daley Blind on the bench against Swansea because 'not fully fit', in the article they explained he didn't feel fully fit after the Fenerbahce match. Yet you say that's not right, he was just dropped?
Then about Jones, I read reports from October 27th, that Jones was finally back in full training. So that's what, 7 or 8 days of full training with no practice matches or anything, after the amount of trouble he has had in his career? I do feel it's a ridiculous situation that he ended up being the centre back who was putting his ass on the line.
Obviously the leg break thing is a joke but the truth is they won't say when they feel pain now will they? ......no need to be so dramatic
I really doubt he was dropped. Didn't Mourinho mention that he wasn't fit enough to start? If fit, surely he would have played left back with Young on the bench.
Stop that. You're reminding me of the bad man. I thought he'd gone away *shudder*
Players who were on the bench were rested not dropped. JM did say that they were fatigued after the Turkey trip
I would have preferred for this to have been kept internal. I think perhaps the players this concerns could also do with some help in regards to some sports psychology. I can't imagine it being easy to come back after that horrific injury to Luke Shaw and still suffering in pain and confidence (if indeed this was directed at him)
I remember Van Gaal criticizing Luke Shaw similarly (before his injury) & now Jose doing the same, maybe it's the player that needs to sort out himself or perhaps just a coincidence that 2 managers have singled out THAT SAME PLAYER. Either way, I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. He praised a lot of players in the same interview, but everyone has now focused on his criticism of Luke Shaw Messi.
Or they were "purnished" for their bad performance in Turkey?
Shaw and Smalling story takes another twist
This story gets stranger and stranger.
There are reports this morning that Chris Smalling and Luke Shaw are ‘baffled’ by Jose Mourinho’s criticism after the win over Swansea.
In particular, Mourinho revealed Shaw said he could not play on the morning of the game, although some media outlets are reporting that the left-back didn’t even travel to Wales.
The Daily Mail claims they could now leave Old Trafford, either in January or at the end of the season.
Is this the same rumour that said Marcus Rashford didn't travel to Wales and that at one point Carrick and Fellaini were going to be at CB?
This story gets stranger and stranger.
There are reports this morning that Chris Smalling and Luke Shaw are ‘baffled’ by Jose Mourinho’s criticism after the win over Swansea.
In particular, Mourinho revealed Shaw said he could not play on the morning of the game, although some media outlets are reporting that the left-back didn’t even travel to Wales.
The Daily Mail claims they could now leave Old Trafford, either in January or at the end of the season.
Is this the same rumour that said Marcus Rashford didn't travel to Wales and that at one point Carrick and Fellaini were going to be at CB?
Luke Shaw "training alone"
Most of United’s squad are away with national teams and those that are not have been given time off.
But the Daily Mail suggest Shaw has been given rather different treatment, with an individual training regime at Carrington to put him through his paces this week.
Of course, this may be the best way to get him back fit again as quickly as possibly. The busy festive period looms large.
Most of United’s squad are away with national teams and those that are not have been given time off.
But the Daily Mail suggest Shaw has been given rather different treatment, with an individual training regime at Carrington to put him through his paces this week.
Of course, this may be the best way to get him back fit again as quickly as possibly. The busy festive period looms large.
ha ha! Touché @Pogue Mahone
I prefer the SAF method, if you're back in full training, you're fit. Rio eating chocolate on the pitch, Rooney thrown in for a CL debut after 3 days of training etc
This was my impression too. It's just a weird situation, Blind was not 'fit' to start in a must win game against Swansea, but he was 'fit' enough to be on the bench and he is now 'fit' enough to be in the squad for his National Team. Smalling was 'injured', yet he still played against Chelsea. That didn't go well, so he was maybe hesitant to try it again with pain/'injury' and perform poorly against Swansea. Then there's Shaw, enough's been said about him. End result, we have to resort to playing Phil Jones.
The man is gone, but I guess the philosophy shall remain
My point was more on the actual situation than your post, the med team clearly thought both were fit enough to play but both players thought otherwise, which makes it a more mental thing than a physical one which would make comments on their mentality by jose a fair point. Also one needs to remember that we have our main cb missing, a rb missing, for some reason blind was dropped and we have got a whopping 3 points from last 4 games, there is immense pressure to take full points from the next game and you really want to sit that one out, that is the sort of time that separates men from boys or correctly men from prima donnas, also pogba clearly suffered from a knock but he is fit enough to play 90 minutes against swansea but shaw and smalling aren't.
Dropped (for being poor v Fenerbache) or "rested", either way, Blind was available to start if José wanted him, hence why @Henrik Larsson's post makes zero sense.
No I wouldn't, but if it happens to bring a change in attitude at the start of Jose tenure it was totally worth doing for the long term benefit of the club.
Brilliant, I'm certain this is exactly what Shaw wants also. The lad will want to get back to full strength and form asap.
What I mean is that everything indicated that it was Blind himself who wasn't so eager to play, just like some others.
So Jose played the ones who did give him the impression they wanted to play 100%, we won the match, and afterwards he praised those players and he raised some concerns about the mentality of some players and if they were ready to do everything possible.
As mentioned, dodgy one now.
Where do you draw the "niggle" line, a tight calf etc etc because im as sure as hell Jose would be fuming if someone had to come off after 10 mins.
That said i DO agree with him.
Where do you draw the "niggle" line, a tight calf etc etc because im as sure as hell Jose would be fuming if someone had to come off after 10 mins.
That said i DO agree with him.
Ahead of Swansea - "Daley Blind has some problems but he put himself available to be on the bench and to try to help the team so the people that are here are people that I trust for a difficult match."
Great attitude from Blind, tell the manager you're struggling but say you can still help and leave the decision to him.
Anyone who thinks this isn't how it should be done baffles me. Blind seems like a great pro, would love to see him get a chance in Carrick's position at some point.
Blind
Herra Pogba
Herra Pogba
Is very interesting I think.
Last edited:
Don't like this obsession with Jose's level of perceived happiness. He's got depression etc. Seems like some expect him to be out there beaming from ear to ear like Santa getting his dick sucked to show he hasn't lost his mojo? Typical 24 hr news type hysteria.
Jose's a bright spark and wouldn't have failed to notice the rage inspired by Moysie's carefree reactions to the utter dross that was being served up. If anything it's out of respect to the club that while we're in a difficult period he's treating this situation as seriously as it deserves to be.
Remember Moysie's foolish smirks after getting beaten by Swansea, not really bothered by it because "hey I'm a celebrity now!". Made me want to headbutt a wall. I would be far more worried if Jose did the same.
Bottom line is that I am sure Jose would never play anyone if the medical team have totally ruled them out. If they have a niggle, if Jose needs them to play.. he is within his rights to expect them to play if we are in a desperate situation.
In the case of a 'phantom' injury where it is more psychological.. you can expect he will find that totally intolerable. He hates any form of mental weakness.. so for him that is completely unforgivable.
In the case of a 'phantom' injury where it is more psychological.. you can expect he will find that totally intolerable. He hates any form of mental weakness.. so for him that is completely unforgivable.
Hadn't seen that quote before. Great to see Blind making a good impression on Jose. Really like him as a player.
I'm so sick of these gimps being 'surprised', 'shocked' or 'baffled'. Just take it on the chin and get on with it.Shaw and Smalling story takes another twist
This story gets stranger and stranger.
There are reports this morning that Chris Smalling and Luke Shaw are ‘baffled’ by Jose Mourinho’s criticism after the win over Swansea.
In particular, Mourinho revealed Shaw said he could not play on the morning of the game, although some media outlets are reporting that the left-back didn’t even travel to Wales.
The Daily Mail claims they could now leave Old Trafford, either in January or at the end of the season.
Is this the same rumour that said Marcus Rashford didn't travel to Wales and that at one point Carrick and Fellaini were going to be at CB?
In reality they are probably none of these things. Its internationals and the press have little else to make up stories about.
I appears Chris has been given the day off with the other non-internationals, but Shaw is training, so maybe he isn't as annoyed with him as he appears to be with Luke or the press are making more out of the comments than were necessary.
Maybe, or maybe Luke himself wants/needs the extra training after such a long lay off?
Yes, that's fair enough, and now I finally see where you're coming from Regulus. I really didn't understand why Smalling and Shaw were the ones who specifically got singled out, that's why I raised the point about Blind, and while of course I still stand by my point that it's a bit 'convenient' for Blind too, this makes it a bit more clear.
So I guess the choice was more of a situation between Blind with some legitimate concerns after playing on Thursday and Phil Jones with a very extreme history of injuries, both were basically gambles.
My take on it is this:
Blind and a few other players were struggling after Thursday night, but they left the decision to the manager and were willing to play through it, Smalling and Shaw were not and made the decision themselves that they weren't up to it.
No doubt the attitude of the likes of Blind compounded Mourinho's frustration with Shaw and Smalling.