We can judge individuals on their own merits, doesn't make the institutions they belong to any less insidious.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
Are institutions not almost insidious and corrupt by default?
Is there an organisation as far reaching that isn't involved in some heinous shit?
Doesn't entitle it to claim moral absolutism over 20% of the world population and beyond.
And we are falling into the trap of relativism going down that road I.e all are corrupted, hence its fine for religious institutions. Except that the latter serve for no practical purposes that can't be performed by secular ones.
There's no preaching or evangelising from the people I work with, that's not what it's all about. It's what we call a "work of mercy" - feeding the hungry. It's an end in itself. Funnily enough, the people we help often say "God bless you" to us. Some may be Catholics, many aren't. We're just a point of contact where people know they'll be helped.
I have no idea how people find out about us, we do work with the soup kitchen which is open at different times, so maybe they tell people about us. New people are always appearing. The other week we had two very disabled people in wheelchairs (they were together), and their carer who appeared to have mental health issues himself. They were out on the streets all day, in filthy clothes. It was raining. The woman couldn't even take the bag of food from me, her hands were affected. You go home thinking differently about your own petty problems, I can tell you.
I have a serious distrust of anybody religious regardless of their religion, I'd call myself a militant atheist, I've no problem telling anybody religious that I think they're absolutely bat-shit crazy. I've started questioning their motives in day to day life and I guess it's getting worse; to the point where I'm asking myself would I rather by on a plane being flown by a religious person or an atheist, would I rather my doctor was religious or an atheist (my girlfriend's doctor is religious and at her surgery they can abstain from prescribing certain treatments), would I rather my child was being taught by someone religious or an atheist, and so on and so on.
Ultimately I'm asking myself who would I trust more to save my life in any given situation, the atheist who understands the value of life and how precious it is and lives for today or the religious nutter who's living for someone else and a supposed afterlife and whose actions (albeit good) are driven be the selfish need to impress some non-entity so they ultimately get rewarded for them.
This is getting worse for me given so many people are religious around me, I'm always questioning their motives, day to day, even at work, at the supermarket (I'd always visit the checkout being manned by someone who wasn't wearing a religious symbol e.g. a crucifix). Perhaps I'm bat-shit crazy too.
Edit, this made me laugh: http://thesciencepost.com/new-law-m...-nurses-to-refuse-care-to-religious-patients/
Ultimately I'm asking myself who would I trust more to save my life in any given situation, the atheist who understands the value of life and how precious it is and lives for today or the religious nutter who's living for someone else and a supposed afterlife and whose actions (albeit good) are driven be the selfish need to impress some non-entity so they ultimately get rewarded for them.
This is getting worse for me given so many people are religious around me, I'm always questioning their motives, day to day, even at work, at the supermarket (I'd always visit the checkout being manned by someone who wasn't wearing a religious symbol e.g. a crucifix). Perhaps I'm bat-shit crazy too.
Edit, this made me laugh: http://thesciencepost.com/new-law-m...-nurses-to-refuse-care-to-religious-patients/
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I don't think you have any option other than gunning down all the religious people you know.
I think you're right, like some sort of crusade or holy war?
I still think peoples motivations are basically irrelevant, and far too complicated and messy to be as simple as 'for religious reasons'
or 'so they get into heaven'.
Anyway ...
As for the second line there isn't always a choice involved. If penna's church group stopped feeding people would a secular organisation pick it up?
or 'so they get into heaven'.
Anyway ...
I didn't say its fine for it to be corrupt, just that i almost expect it from an organisation with that much influence.
As for the second line there isn't always a choice involved. If penna's church group stopped feeding people would a secular organisation pick it up?
You quite impressively sound like a nutter yourself there.
Classic overdosed on atheism.
Not sure if posted but I love Gervais, talks a lot of sense in a world full of loonies. Love his take on agnosticism 
@Silva 's post count in this thread is worse than mine in the DM one. Think we are both a tad obsessed.Interesting...
http://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2016/11/29/religion-brain-scan-mri-orig.cnn
Religious thoughts act like love and drugs
MRI scans reveal religious experiences can trigger the brain's reward systems.
Source: CNN
http://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2016/11/29/religion-brain-scan-mri-orig.cnn
Religious thoughts act like love and drugs
MRI scans reveal religious experiences can trigger the brain's reward systems.
Source: CNN
I'm amazed how many churches there are here in this little part of Ohio/WV. My observations of folk however is that most are religious because that's how they were brought up.
You're discriminating based on religion though. Which you justify by assuming 'religious people are all wrong and atheists are ultimately correct'. And I'm an atheist but atheists can be more immoral than 'believers'.
Plenty of great men and women are religious. Darwin despite his findings was religious. Many women I've had relationships were religious and found solace and comfort from their faith with difficult circumstances. Who really wants to tell them 'sorry love that's a load of shit, you're fecked, there's no hope, now accept it and give up on life'.
I think religion is actually a pretty good defense mechanism.
Yes, parental inference and social pressures.
Also probably a key component of local communities. In some rural areas where feck all happens I imagine it keeps older people in touch, allows people to meet each other etc.
Darwin was not religious in any sense other than that he was raised as so. He was a self declared agnostic:
"an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind."
You're firm in your beliefs that govern how you behave. Sounds like a religion to me. So you're basically super religious.
No, he's dogmatically anti-religion - that doesn't make him religious.
The main religions are dogmatic, that's how they've survived, but don't confuse anyone who dogmatically believes something with someone who submits their reality, rightly or wrongly, to an organized, established religion.
Opposing dogmatic religion is very difficult to do without asserting your own views dogmatically.
People are often literally born into the main religions - or they're born into an area which leans heavily toward one of the main ones - and in many cases, to break free from that type of institutionalized psychology must take a lot of self-assertiveness and soul searching in which developing a dogmatic approach might be needed in order to defeat the 'other' dogma that the person was born into.
I am curious, why do you think that atheists know that "life is precious"?
I don't believe in a god, I think we are the products of Evolution, but I can't find any "precious" qualities in the process. It took billions of years of self replicating genes to build intelligent beings (us) who ended up asking questions about the purpose of life. But ultimately, this process doesn't seem to have a goal, so I wouldn't call it "precious".
I'd say I am jealous of religious people. At least, they believe in a purpose that transcends this process of life and death. To them perhaps life is precious because it is just a step to something bigger.
I have a deep mistrust of religious people. They either want my money or my arse.
On the same token, for a non-believer, wouldn't life be seen as precious because it's all you've got?
I'm jealous because they can go through life, and see criminals succeeding, and sincerely believe that they will rot in hell. For a non-believer like me, I know that Hitler lived a good life and tortured and killed millions with no punishment.
With or without religion, how can life not be precious ?
I think I know what you want to say, that he lived a good life according to him and his followers. Am I right ?
By good I meant comfortable, not morally good.
Does that make you feel angry or just ambivalent?
He did have one of balls shot off tbf.
Yeah but it was displayed in the Albert Hall, win win to be fair.
Yeah but at least he died cowering in a bunker with the Red Army at his doorstep after watching his "1000 year Reich" crumble after just 5 years of fighting the "racially inferior" Soviets. His last thoughts before biting the capsule and pulling the trigger had to be tortureous.
Agreed. If only it could have been drawn out and extended over a long period of time.
Very true.
There is a god after all.
If I think about it, angry at Hitler, and a little resentful that there is no heaven and hell. Then I get thankful that they don't exist, because if any religious text is to be believed, I'll probably end up right alongside Hitler.
And yet... if he got down on one knee and asked 'god' for forgiveness and given himself to the lord at that point, he'd be in heaven.
Something seriously screwed in that logic
If i walk down the street this morning, see a stunning looking woman and think to myself "cor, I'd feck the arse off that" I'm breaking one of the Ten Commandments and unless I go to a confession booth I'm condemning myself to the fiery pits off hell.
Alternatively, if I walk into my office with an AK 47 and kill every single person in the building all I need do is head to confession and in the eyes of the church am absolved of sin and can happily pass into heaven.
The logic is seriously flawed.
Is there anyone who is actually religious posting in this thread or are they all scared away?
This is a "Religion - what's the point" thread. So basically a thread for atheists and non-believers. Hardly 'any point' posting in this thread if minds have already been made up. What we need is a "The Religion" (not the poster, he's a twat 
) thread where we can discuss, er, all the religions.
) thread where we can discuss, er, all the religions.I do very occasionally, but there's not much point (for me). You believe or you don't believe, you have your own journey to faith or away from faith. Sometimes that changes over the course of a lifetime, sometimes people are decided one way or the other all their lives. It's either extremely important to you or of no importance at all.
There are good people who are people of faith, there are good people who are atheists. Similarly with people who aren't so good.
What's stopping anyone from doing that here ?This is a "Religion - what's the point" thread. So basically a thread for atheists and non-believers. Hardly 'any point' posting in this thread if minds have already been made up. What we need is a "The Religion" (not the poster, he's a twat
One view.
When we killed - or exiled - God, we also killed ourselves. Did we notice this sufficiently at the time ? No God, no afterlife, no us. We were right to kill Him, of course, this long-standing imaginary friend of ours. And we weren't going to get an afterlife anyway. But we sawed off the branch we were sitting on. And the view from there, from that height - even if it was only the illusion of a view - wasn't so bad.
When we killed - or exiled - God, we also killed ourselves. Did we notice this sufficiently at the time ? No God, no afterlife, no us. We were right to kill Him, of course, this long-standing imaginary friend of ours. And we weren't going to get an afterlife anyway. But we sawed off the branch we were sitting on. And the view from there, from that height - even if it was only the illusion of a view - wasn't so bad.