Isn't that the point of the thread though? Who's been better for United?
Where does Carrick go in terms of all time greats for United?
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Isn't that the point of the thread though? Who's been better for United?
Yep I agree.
Yea. There are many reasons why I think Vidic is above them.
1) In my opinion he's more influence than them. In 8.5 years, we have won 5 PL titles when he was with us (1 of the season he was injured and the other season he passed his prime). So pretty much when he was fit we won.
2) I remember we didn't win a single PL in three years even though we had the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Rio and Keane. And when Vidic joined us, our back four became way more solid.
3) Stam is probably on par or closed with Vidic but what makes me picked Vidic ahead of Stam because I have seen Vidic played with a young inexperienced Evans and Smalling and he still made our backfour like a world class.
4) Vidic is the best centre back in his generation. And tier 1 players will be in my best United XI and Vidic is one of them.
not a great or legend to me. but a good servant i guess
edit - good to see i'm not the only one raising my eyebrow at the carrick overrating.
edit - good to see i'm not the only one raising my eyebrow at the carrick overrating.
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To judge butt or carrick, both were exceptional, whether be tier 1 or tier 3, tier 3 players for utd would be classed as truly world class for others. Butt was brilliant and i do think carrick was better, would love to see a prime keane with him, obviously wont happen. Dont judge either between them but be thankful we had both
Carricks one of the best United central midfielders for me in the past 20years. Top 3. Just a shame he didn't have a bit more charisma and leadership skills.
Great servant and very good player. Absolutely nowhere near the level of genuinely great midfielders like Keane or Scholes though. Comfortably better than Butt mind.
He's never worth £18m 
Rooney above or below Cleverly's tier?
Nailed it.
Carrick is a lovely player to watch on his day, especially with time given to him. I'm afraid he also has plenty of flaws which seem to get glossed over and he has been downright awful at times in big competitive matches.
He's never worth £18m
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/5231068.stm
Fun to see some of the comments.
MonkDeWallyDeHonk
This is a brilliant piece of business - I'm sad to lose him but for that much we should be laughing!
Defoe'sRightPeg
An utter steal for Spurs. He's not worth even £12m. Brilliant from Jol and Levy.
MegaSpur
Spurs did not want to sell Carrick and so stuck an inflated purchase price on him (I believe him to be a £10m player at best). Man Utd decided that they wanted the player badly enough to meet the asking price - the law of supply and demand strikes again.
You should've seen some of the posts on here at the time.
One of the best forward passers we have, dictates the tempo, calms the defence, he's a joy to watch. He has his flaws, but if played in the correct combination he excels and uses his true potential. Play him with the wrong partner and he's exposed.
I simply cannot understand how people rank him the same as Nicky Butt. Nicky was a useful solid player, but never in the same league as Carrick.
I simply cannot understand how people rank him the same as Nicky Butt. Nicky was a useful solid player, but never in the same league as Carrick.
Very good player and a big reason to why we had so much success.
I'm quoting the bolded part out of context but it makes me (unfortunately) rememebers him the most by: his never really raised his level. It's the sign of a very good footballer that his own standards and ability can become consistent and effective during a team decline but he never struck me as, 'he's playing above form and beyond'.
It's not style, I'm talking about mentality and the will to fight/stamp authority. You're not sure whether you are demanding too much (for a limited player) or it's the case of a capable player showing limited performances (when the team needed more).
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He has been IMO a better midfielder than Crerand, Stiles, Ince, Fletcher, Butt. Stiles was mostly a defender anyway.
He is definitely not in the Charlton/Scholes/Robbo/Keane class.
He is definitely not in the Charlton/Scholes/Robbo/Keane class.
Difficult to say when our midfield had been bang average for long periods, we've only just got the balance right with Pogba and Herrera ahead of him (in recent times.)
A shame really. Top, top player.
A shame really. Top, top player.
You can't call them both legends. There has to be a beginning and an end.
Bobby Charlton is a legend, Michael Carrick is not.
I reckon he wouldn't make the match day squad of all-time United greats and that just says a lot about the centre mids United have had rather than undervalues Carrick.
Since we signed him, I'd have Carrick in the starting 11 every game. On the ball, only Scholes was better and off the ball, only Keane IMO.
Carrick is world class. IIRC, there was a quote by Xabi Alonso saying if Carrick was Spanish, he'd be rated more than he has ever been. England would have controlled games better with Scholes and Carrick in the centre.
There is an argument to be had that he might not take every game against world class opposition by the scruff of the neck. But he's done that too.
It is also fantastic to see Carrick has followed Scholes in how to be a footballer off the field. Class player, class attitude, joy to watch - checks all boxes of a United great!
Since we signed him, I'd have Carrick in the starting 11 every game. On the ball, only Scholes was better and off the ball, only Keane IMO.
Carrick is world class. IIRC, there was a quote by Xabi Alonso saying if Carrick was Spanish, he'd be rated more than he has ever been. England would have controlled games better with Scholes and Carrick in the centre.
There is an argument to be had that he might not take every game against world class opposition by the scruff of the neck. But he's done that too.
It is also fantastic to see Carrick has followed Scholes in how to be a footballer off the field. Class player, class attitude, joy to watch - checks all boxes of a United great!
Overrated because of Pogba. If this thread had been opened 6 months ago, the opinions on Carrick would have been very different. He is a good player not a great player.
Third times a charm
I had a mareThird times a charm
Third times a charm
Giggs is underrated on this forum.
Scholes is overrated
Keane is overrated too.
Giggs,
Scholes,Keane with Scholes being a little more than Keane because he was one of the class of 92
Excellent player but a level or two below the best players.
Underrated, overrated, saturated. If they got us trophies I'd just rate em.
Fair play. That's me too. They all brought different things to the table.
Very tough to rate, just one of those subtle conduits that allows a team to flow and function well. However, when the team is under pressure, he folds too easily under it too. I want to put him in Tier 2 along with the likes of Butt and Ince, but his ability to handle pressure in was always a big bug bear for me. On the other hand, unlike the aforementioned players he wasn't blessed at playing with brilliant partners over the years. It's only at the beginning of his career with Scholes and at the end now with Pogba did he have world class central midfielders. Still amazes me that he and a 33/34 year old giggs went to a CL final.
Spot on.
This is pretty much spot on. Carrick stood out as a real weakness in the team for a few years. He was part of our woeful central midfield once Scholes' legs had gone, albeit the better half of said poor midfield. Whenever we played a top midfield or even a mediocre midfield who pressed him he'd look rank average; hence the likes of Tiote, Schneiderlin, Barton etc getting elevated to greatness.
The one thing I would say is I think he's improved in terms of his intelligence since '06-11. I think he's much more aware of his flaws and consequently avoids situations where he used to get harried into making mistakes. Alongside two very good midfielders in Pogba and Herrera he looks perfectly at home (and often looks the more consistent).
I also think his game hugely suited have two other central midfielders in front of him, but for 95% of his career he's played in a two, which has exacerbated his flaws. I think that had United played a 4-3-3 for the last decade the conversation around Carrick could be different. He'd never be seen as equal to Pirlo or Alonso, but the system he played in meant it'd be very difficult have a chance to be (not that this is an excuse, Scholes played in the same system and is more than equal to them).
Too many seasons where he spent the first half sleepwalking through games to be considered an all time great.
Don't forget even though we had no other actual midfielders to play, Fergie would drop him for weeks at a time till he woke up.
Don't forget even though we had no other actual midfielders to play, Fergie would drop him for weeks at a time till he woke up.
I've already read Balu's post and i disagree with it. I'd rather trust Ferguson for whom Carrick was an automatic choice in the starting lineup since he joined the club in the summer of 2006.
I've already written in this thread that i don't rate him above Robson or Keane. But the comparisons with the likes of Butt and Fletcher are ridiculous and so are the claims that he had blatant weaknesses which allowed our midfield to get destroyed in the PL. He played in a midfield of two in the last four seasons of the Ferguson era and he practically held (defensively) the midfield all by himself. During that period, as i mentioned, we won two and lost two by a total of one point. That's quite impressive for a team with such a weak midfield.
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He will go pretty much as his career - underrated!
Stapleton was a good player - and my idol when I was first started watching United - but he was nowhere near the same quality as Evra, Van der Sar, Carrick and Neville. They were all the best in their position in the country, at a time when United were the best team in the league. Stapleton was a player who played for a much worse side, didn't score much and not even close to being the best striker in the league.
I tend to agree here. I'd say dead on 7.5 using this logic. I didn't see Robson but if you're marking him as a 10 then I assume you see him higher than Scholes and Keane who you'd probably see as around 9-9.5? If so, then yeah. Seems about right.
Yup - Butt was brilliant as a player who covered for his more skilled teammates. But he could never dictate or control a midfield himself. Carrick still at 35 dictates and controls the midfield
I agree with @Balu and other posters, including yours, take on Carrick. I quoted yours to explore more on the bolded part, which I believed the reason LVG wrongly or rightly tried with double pivot with the signing of Schmidfield, and benching. Mourinho tried something similar earlier this season and had been compromised for the time being as there is bigger issue to fix now the midfield is workable.
Edit: I would add SAF into the list as he also preferred 2 men midfield and if Hagreaves was not the crock he is, thing would have a very different turn.
Carrick's pressing is tame and he's "lazy" tackler and "clean" footballer. With midfield 3, he can position and pick the time to steal the ball, intercept. However, in double pivot system, he is required to press, force mistake or brute force steal the ball from opponent and his flaw shows. With Carrick, the tactical option is limited or we risked getting exposed if the manager try the funny idea.
Just like @criticalanalysis said Carrick consistent performs at a very level with the right set up, but if things get tough and the set up failed, Carrick wouldn't helping pick team performance up, while himself still giving a good individual performance often picked up by Youtube videos (I label as " good passenger" in contrast to "bad passenger" Cleverley). Someone like Keane, Scholes, Robson during their peak was the breadth of the team. Hardly anytime they could boast about their good performance when the team performance was overall bad.
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Cant believe this wasn't called out here. Your opinion may make sense if you stopped watching football in 2005. Because what Scholes did thereafter was to re-define himself as a deep lying midfielder. He was at the fulcrum of probably the best team in the PL era. The combined factors of longevity and class easily justify placing Scholes into the top tier, atleast at Beckham's level.
On the topic, yeah Carrick has been a tier below for sure to be called a 'great'. Nevertheless a very important player. I am glad we bought him from Spurs.
Carrick is one of our most decorated players, a mainstay in our midfield for a decade, regular fixture in all 3 champions league final. Now on his last legs he's helping us through an important transition. But yea Ince is overall better a Manchester United player, despite playing for the Scouse and hating our club, because Carrick's dull as feck.
Absolutely miles better than Nicky Butt, I'm astounded anyone can suggest otherwise.
We've been close to being "dominent" in Europe for a sustained period just once in our history & Carrick was our centre mid for all of it, that should tell you more than enough.
He has never grabbed games by the scruff of the neck like Robson or Keane so that will always tend to put him below them in most people's eyes but an amazing and hugely important player in our history non the less.
We've been close to being "dominent" in Europe for a sustained period just once in our history & Carrick was our centre mid for all of it, that should tell you more than enough.
He has never grabbed games by the scruff of the neck like Robson or Keane so that will always tend to put him below them in most people's eyes but an amazing and hugely important player in our history non the less.
Im sorry but I just cant agree with any of that. We won THE TREBLE with Scholes Giggs Beckham and Keane. Neville is one of Unites best defenders ever and so is Rio and you dont regard them as good as Vidic? More influence than them? Neville was our Captain. Its just bizarre to rate Vidic above United legends like Scholes and Giggs. Bizarre.