In Defence of Jesse Lingard
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
It was a great goal, fecking amazing and in a big moment too. However it was still a goal, in a cup match, against a weak Crystal Palace.
Lee Martin did exactly the same for us in 1990 (although against a stronger Palace side) but we replaced him immediately with Dennis Irwin and Clayton Blackmore, and Paul Parker followed shortly afterwards.
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Don't have a problem with Jesse at all. He just shouldn't start ahead of someone like Mata under any circumstances. If he actually just plays the backup squad role he's suited to then all well and good.
He's fairly useful to come on when say we're defending a lead and we need someone to come on to provide energy and help out the fullback.
Other than that he's well out of his depth, shouldn't be starting any games unless there's an injury crisis.
Brown was a quality player, Gibson / Cleverly are more apt comparisons to Lingard.
What bothers me the most is that he's grouped with Martial and Rashford as the boy prodigies. Even that video is calling him "starboy". He's 24 and not exactly a Nani who has great ability but inconsistencies to iron out in his game. He's just a very average player with little talent, I fail to see the promise of potential.
Other than that he's well out of his depth, shouldn't be starting any games unless there's an injury crisis.
Brown was a quality player, Gibson / Cleverly are more apt comparisons to Lingard.
What bothers me the most is that he's grouped with Martial and Rashford as the boy prodigies. Even that video is calling him "starboy". He's 24 and not exactly a Nani who has great ability but inconsistencies to iron out in his game. He's just a very average player with little talent, I fail to see the promise of potential.
He's another typical frustrating English player.. Has the goods but lacks end product apart from the odd screamer.
But P. Neville, Darren Fletcher, Park Ji Sung were? Not every player in your team is going to be world class.
All miles better players than Jesse Lingard.
I'm not talking about their entire career. At the same age I don't see how they were miles better but I'm sure you can explain.
Very good squad player to have, his off the ball movement is very good and if he improves his end product, he'd be a player with good stats at the end of each season.
Fletcher, for example, was one of our most important midfielders in 2008/09, playing 42 games and almost everyone is still bitter about his suspension from the Champions League final. That was the season in which he turned 25. So yeah, he was a much better player than Lingard.
He's just not good enough for a title winning team if i'm being honest. Sure he got a wonder goal in the FA cup final but lets not forget there has been plenty of players that have scored for United and were also well below par.
Very good player and an extremely important part of the squad. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy seeing 99% of us claiming he is just a squad player as I think he has bigger ambitions than that and he may well get a run in the side if Mhki or someone else gets injured. I really hope he is happy to stay here and take his chances as and when they come rather than pushing for a move if he isn't playing as I think it would be a massive loss if he was sold.
There's no comparison between Fletcher, PJS, Brown when it comes to Lingard. Nowhere near their level. A more apt comparison is Cleverley. Useful to the team whilst we sort out our weaknesses in that area, but lacking a long term future once we do.
I can @Mainoldo, and I'll start with Park.
At the same age Park Ji-Sung was about to be signed by Sir Alex after first impressing in the 2002 World Cup (semi-finals) and also making the semis of the CL in 2004-05, where thanks to his strong performances, Park was chosen, along with Andriy Shevchenko, Adriano, Samuel Eto'o, and Ronaldinho as one of the nominees for the 2005 UEFA Best Forward award.
Fletcher at aged 24, (season In the 2008–09 season) was our standout midfielder and first choice. The following season he was named in the PFA Premier League Team of the Year.
Phil Neville was first choice United left back by the time he was the same age as Jesse. Jesse is definitely closest to Phil, but I don't see Jesse ever being first choice so in that sense he'll never reach the heights of Phil.
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Haha has that really auto corrected to that lol, I'll rectify it asap
And it took him a while to get to being a first team player. I remember him being criticized pretty badly early on in his career.
Park and fletcher are much better or were much better, Phil Neville was a donkey and was sold
He doesn't start for us either
Huh? He's started 14 games this season.
He's only started so many because our other players in that position have done worse than him without getting the same vitriol.
I wasn't saying it was enough to justify him staying and being a starter, which he isn't anyway, I was disagreeing with him being on the pitch is like playing with 10 men, he's come up with some big goals when he's played.
He's limited, but he's definately worth keeping around to fill in
Martial and Rashford have been given plenty of critic this season and you are very aware of this @OohAahMartial
Do they get called "not good enough" or "not at the level required"... well no, obviously; because they have previously proven that they are.
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You're not the first person to use the "not every player has to be world class" line, and I don't know where such a comment comes from. I'm well aware that we can't fill the entire squad with world class players, I've never advocated such a transfer strategy. I simply don't think Lingard is good enough for our squad and I believe we can improve on him without buying a world class player.
As for Fletcher, Park and P.Neville. Fletcher and Park were good players; players I rated higher than I do Lingard. P.Neville was rightfully sold. But I can guarantee you one thing: if Neville was in the squad right now we'd be hearing the same arguments that we hear about Lingard; that he's just a squad player so it doesn't matter if he isn't very good. I don't agree at all, we should always be looking to improve, and players like Lingard and Fellaini are obvious positions where we can improve significantly.
I'm of the same mind, see that people have a problem with him but never seen him being particularly crap. The only times he's been rubbish are when the whole team has been rubbish.
He's been fortunate this season tbh (for him), almost all his competition has had long periods out of form or injured. I just don't see who we replace him with if he is sold, don't think we can find a better 4/5th choice wide player.
You need hard workers as well as superstar players that can change the game with moment of magic and Jesse Lingard is a hard working squad player that can be called upon when needed and rarely let us down, he's no different to Nicky Butt or Phil Neville and they were both important squad players.
Lingard is able to play anywhere across the front line as well as in midfield and whilst he isn't on Mhkitaryan, Mata or Martial levels is great back up to them and as a local lad cares so much about the team and squad as a whole.
Personally I'd have Lingard over either of Young or Depay in a wide forward role so if the first choice is Mhkitaryan and Martial then Mata as first choice replacement I'd have Lingard as next choice, would I prefer someone better ? Yes but do I think Lingard is a good squad player and good enough for us right now ? Also the answer is yes.
Lingard is able to play anywhere across the front line as well as in midfield and whilst he isn't on Mhkitaryan, Mata or Martial levels is great back up to them and as a local lad cares so much about the team and squad as a whole.
Personally I'd have Lingard over either of Young or Depay in a wide forward role so if the first choice is Mhkitaryan and Martial then Mata as first choice replacement I'd have Lingard as next choice, would I prefer someone better ? Yes but do I think Lingard is a good squad player and good enough for us right now ? Also the answer is yes.
He starts more games than Micky, Martial or Rashford have I'm sure.
Who's the squad player?
Hopefully we'll see a bit less of him now with Mhkitaryan finally getting into the team. He's good enough to be a squad player here imo.
Decent squad player.
Good work rate, some nice goals, loves the club.
I'm happy with him as a squad player, and i think he himself is happy being that for United aswell.
Good work rate, some nice goals, loves the club.
I'm happy with him as a squad player, and i think he himself is happy being that for United aswell.
There's really nothing to defend about Lingard. He's a very good squad player to have available.
My lord, in recent threads he's been compared to Wes Brown, Park Ji-Sung & now Nicky Butt.
The mind boggles.
I think he's ok-ish, we can improve on him for sure and we should, and he's not close to some of the players mentioned. But whilst he's here he should be a squad player and should not be starting too many games over much better players.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...oals-for-manchester-united-squad-2016-17.aspx
He's featured less than martial and rashford, and he's clearly behind mkhitaryan.
I find people let him off when he's poor and then when he does something like the assist at the West Brom game they use that one moment as evidence that he's good enough as if it vindicates him. I get he's local and people want to like him based on that, but some straight up refuse to criticise him even when he's been awful.
Yes. If he was as likeable as Herrera or past players like Chicharito I doubt he'd be so harshly criticized. The same goes for Smalling IMO and while im mentioning some ex players even Welbeck recieved some of the same treatment at the end of his United career. Its personal. Lingard is not hindering any of the players ahead of him. He's coming and in mostly doing a job when they need resting or when their form is off. The kid is an academy success story, people should be proud of that
Lingard has personally achieved way more with United than Cleverly ever did. You can't compare them. The fact is Lingard has proven himself as a useful player to two very successful managers. I think a lot of people will be upset when Lingard is still playing for United beyond this summer's transfer window
You well know that Lingard gets far far more criticism than they do. Even when he plays well or decent he still gets criticised. Hence why there's this thread about him.
Cleverly played 13 times for England.Jesse played the last 2 England games is he an English regular now?
Conversely, there's a weird fixation with criticizing him that doesn't seem to be applied to other players. Ultimately, its a team effort so its not Lingard's fault if (for example) we let in a last minute equalizer against Arsenal or concede a late penalty to Everton. What often happens in such instances is people get angry and orient their frustrations on the easiest available target.
Cleverley won the league here. He certainly achieved at least as much as Lingard...
I'm absolutely baffled as to why some care so much that not everyone rates him. I mean, like seriously, who actually cares? If you think he's great then good for you, if you don't, then good for you. I swear some on here get personally offended when he gets criticised. This thread says it all.