In Defence of Jesse Lingard
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
No hes still a rubbish player, he couldnt even get a game for Swansea.
Cleverley is a good player.
Lingard looks like a boy playing amongst adults, completely ineffective and like playing with 10men
Yup, I had one solitary post before you tagged me. That's how 'offended' I was.
Quite, but even you're exaggerating now, he's not that good.
You remember the name don't you? Cup heroes are never forgotten
Championship quality? Thats just your opinion. If he was truly championship quality then please explain why both LVG and Mourinho valued his contribution. If he was championship quality he'd be playing with Blackett at Reading. You think Mourinho will sell him? Mourinho doesn't value Depay and Schnierdierlin, they are both leaving. Lingard stays
Im a big fan of Lingards. He may not be the most technically gifted footballer but he has a fantastic workrate, brilliant pace, can score and create goals and also has a great character.
Neither of them, most likely.
And it was FA Cup against Crystal fecking Palace, not Champions League against Barcelona. He scored a goal there, kudos to him, it was great. The absolute majority of Caf (and I guess most of United fans) would have taken the fourth place before FA Cup last year. Cleverley was a starting midfielder in a team that won the league. Btw, Lee Martin, 'the great' Manchester player did the exact same thing near 3 decades ago (scored a goal in the final of FA Cup against Crystal Palace). How many United fans actually remember him?
For what is worth, I think that Cleverley at 2012-2013 has been better than Lingard has ever been, but unfortunately for him, he regressed as fast as speed of light after last season. I would put Lingard somewhere between Cleverley and Welbeck in terms of talent, and well, neither of them was deemed good enough to continue with us. And rightly so!
So Lingard has eclipsed the legend that is Cleverly, because one has scored in an FA cup final and one hasn't. Awe inspiring stuff.
We should sign Wigan Athletic hero Jordi Gomez in the summer; he too once scored in an FA cup final. He and Lingard can reminisce about great times.
I remember the name because I remember all the names , because I saw him play and he was a better left back than whatever Lingard's position supposed to be.
He also played very few games for United after that final because we brought in better players.[/QUOTE]
Mourinho is of course infallible. He never made a mistake in his career, especially when it came to judging players quality. If he did mistakes, De Bruyne would have turned into a good player and Oscar would have been playing at China, but lucky for Chelsea, Mourinho is always right.
And well, Van Gaal played Tyler Blackett for 12 times. His selection looked more something that you can expect from a random number generator than anything else.
Lingard is pretty average. Midtable or bottom half of the PL quality
We need to get proper back up for Martial and Mkhitaryan. Depay and Lingard not good enough
We need to get proper back up for Martial and Mkhitaryan. Depay and Lingard not good enough
So I guess United's FA cup win last season is irrelevant because it was against Crystal Palace. Nothing to celebrate. Now I know. Martin's name sticks out among real United fans if not for anything else but for him scoring in an FA cup final. Entrenched in history whether you like it or not, whether the rest of his United career was good or bad
So you're telling me it means nothing that two successful managers, some of the most successful managers of all time in the game, both saw a place for Lingard in the squad? You know better don't you?
Managers make mistakes
Of course, it was something to celebrate. I would say that it was our fourth or fifth highest priority (after UCL, title, 4th place and maybe Europa League), but it still was a trophy so well done. But, at the end it was just a goal in a third rate competition, and that goal doesn't make Lingard a great player. A goal in FA Cup, that's it. Hundreds of players have done that. And no, I don't think that none gives a shit about Lee Martin. There are hundreds of United players who have been more important that him for us. I mean, when is the last time you saw his name mentioned in this forum. No idea, but my guess might be 'never'.
I definitely don't know better, otherwise I would have been managing United. At the same time, both managers have a history of totally inexcusable decisions on picking players, so them playing Lingard doesn't mean that much IMO. I mean, Sir Alex played Cleverley and Welbeck constantly and they were nothing but average (especially the first one). Djemba fecking Djemba played for us quite a lot too, I guess he also was a good squad player. And lets not even start about Bebe. Or Obertan.
The guy gets way too much criticism. He was playing on merit earlier in the season when the manager decided that Miki wasn't ready and Martial was in awful form. Now we have creative players in a run of form we'll probably see him less.
Jesse is a Park Ji Sung-lite. I don't think anyone could say Park held down a specific position at any point in his United career. He had runs in the side but primarily you saw his name on the team sheet and you knew he'd give 100%, do whatever he was told and never play badly. Jesse could have a career here if he accepts that kind of role, works his tail off and keeps his level at his best.
He's never going to score or assist double figures in a season. We'll never look to him to be the difference or a match winner(despite his knack for scoring important goals). 15-20 appearances a season, never let us down when called upon. That's what I see for him and I hope he achieves that.
Disclaimer: I avoid all of his off-field endeavours. Hate it all so I just don't pay attention to it. I only give a damn about his on-field actions.
You're right across the board but age isn't that fair when talking about Jesse. He had some horrific injuries and his development curve was stunted.
I'd never compare Fletcher as a 32 year old to other 32 year old footballers for example.
I do doubt that Jesse will ever have a peak to the level that Fletcher did. Barring his illness Fletcher would have got to that level of Butt, Ince for us. Jesse will probably top out at the P.Neville, O'Shea level if he sticks around for 5 more seasons.
That's crazy. Saying he's achieved way more because of one goal in a domestic final is nuts. By that logic Lingard has achieved more than shitloads of players for us who've never scored in a final.
Macheda scored us 2 goals that ended up winning us the league. Has he achieved more in his career at Utd than either of them?
Bang average player who should be playing for a mid table team , really annoying seeing him start ahead of the likes of martial and micki.
Fair point but I didn't mention the age comparison, that was @Mainoldo
All good. Adding to the debate. No issue taken with your post.
I think Jesse Lingard is under-rated here because of his extremely poor conversion rate, he misses far too many chances. Otherwise, he is technically extremely good, he is technically miles better than the likes of Fellaini, Depay, Schneiderlin, who should have never joined United.
Someone compared Lingard with Park Ji Sung here, Ji Sung Park never had the technique Lingard has. Ji Sung Park was mainly a work horse, more like an advanced full-back. If Jesse can improve his finishing he will probably end up being a first team regular.
Someone compared Lingard with Park Ji Sung here, Ji Sung Park never had the technique Lingard has. Ji Sung Park was mainly a work horse, more like an advanced full-back. If Jesse can improve his finishing he will probably end up being a first team regular.
He's a good wee player. I like him a lot.
Keep in mind, he's a late bloomer too. He's what... 23 now? Wait till he's 26/27 and I'm sure it'll be like watching a completely different player.
I think his future is probably as a number 10 though.
Keep in mind, he's a late bloomer too. He's what... 23 now? Wait till he's 26/27 and I'm sure it'll be like watching a completely different player.
I think his future is probably as a number 10 though.
Not sure what player you've been watching but it isn't Lingard. Technically extremely good? Histechnical ability is no better than Park. And as for him being a regular starter. Yeah good luck with that when Griezmann joins us. I'd be willing to bet Lingard won't even be at the club in a couple seasons.
Park had good technique. Better than Lingard imo.
If Jesse ends up being a first team regular then we are forked
Park could never get past a defender the way Jesse manages to do pretty regularly, Park was a very poor dribbler. Jesse is a very good dribbler, it's his final delivery and his finishing that let's Jesse down.
Along with the mistakes from Rio (failing to mark Messi) and Vidic (getting easily done by Eto'o), the inclusion of Park Ji Sung was the main reason we lost against against Barcelona in 2009, he also let us down in the final in 2011 and in the title decider against Man City in 2012 as well, a very ordinary player when facing truly top teams. He had a very heavy first touch, which means against top teams he couldn't maintain possession as they reduced the space.
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Ungrateful pricks are the ones who abuse him. Like Ashley Young he is a perfect squad player and he can only improve. Many on here forget how inexperienced he is at EPL first team level. For me in him we have the perfect long term Ashley Young replacement. And having squad players like that tends to win you things.
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High praise indeed.
That's unlikely. You won't be getting players of a higher standard than he is willing to sit on our bench like he foes without a fuss. If you doubt that just look at the likes of Schniederlin and Delay itching for moves. A Januzaj for example would never be satisfied with Lingard or Young's current role.
Lingard was first choice since breaking through last season, and he has started more PL games this season than Martial, Micky and Rashford. So you can't really call his role one that's hard being satisfied about. He'll probably drop down the pecking order now that those three are up and running, but so far he's been playing pretty regularly in a role that wouldn't unsettle many players.
You can't compare that with Schneiderlin and Depay, who have barely played this season.
Why does he need a defense? He has shown he is good enough for United throughout this season and last.
I was comparing Cleverly and Lingard individually. Lingard has had it better in his short career so far and he's certainly going to surpass him
Lingard will only play when Mikh or Martial are off form, rested etc. He's mostly second choice and he knows it. We need players like this who accept the role, and still chip in with a few goals when called upon.
If Lingard was a fair bit better than he really is right now, he might fancy his chances elsewhere instead.
If Lingard was a fair bit better than he really is right now, he might fancy his chances elsewhere instead.
looks like he wants more money and playing time. He is only 24.
Think he is a very good player and will improve. We are in all competitions.
Think he is a very good player and will improve. We are in all competitions.
What is more weird is people trying to literally jump into users heads to violently thought police them into thinking a player is shit because they think he is so he must be. I'm cool with just appreciating him for how I think he is and letting Jose sort out his game and his impact on the team.
I like Lingard a lot. great squad player and looks popular enough in the team. always work hard to do the task entrusted to him every time Jose put him on the pitch. hopefully he will stay with us longer.
http://www.espnfc.com/player/169136/jesse-lingard shows that Lingard played 18 games this season, 12 of which ended with our win. That is 66.67%.
I think that Scholesy used only the result when Lingard is on the pitch. For example, if Lingard is taken off while we are not winning, he doesn't count that as a win even if we win later that match.
How do you know that he is a late bloomer? Every young player who has ever come out of United's academy gets called a late bloomer here.
Also, he is 24.
He is very much good to be in the squad. He was excellent last season vs Arsenal, Chelsea, city and in the FA Cup final (it's a stupid point that it's ONLY crystal palace. It's not like they reached the final not beating any other team)
The fact that he starts is not upto him. If mourinho feels he should start over mkhitariyan or martial or Rashford, I'm willing to bet it's for a reason and not just waking up in the morning and randomly deciding lingard will start.
I'm guessing mourinho and LvG can judge players and their form more than the guys who claim he is championship quality.
The fact that he starts is not upto him. If mourinho feels he should start over mkhitariyan or martial or Rashford, I'm willing to bet it's for a reason and not just waking up in the morning and randomly deciding lingard will start.
I'm guessing mourinho and LvG can judge players and their form more than the guys who claim he is championship quality.