In Defence of Jesse Lingard

[dove]

He is definitely not good enough to be a first choice. As a squad player he is decent. His work rate is good, can score some nice goals (although he can also miss some absolute sitters) and he generally looks content being a squad player as he seems to love the club. I think he will leave us in a few years just like Cleverley did as they just lack talent to be first team players for us.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Lingard has personally achieved way more with United than Cleverly ever did. You can't compare them. The fact is Lingard has proven himself as a useful player to two very successful managers. I think a lot of people will be upset when Lingard is still playing for United beyond this summer's transfer window

how exactly?

 

[CM]

Huh? He's started 14 games this season.

I meant in terms of being an automatic starter. He started more games this year due to the situation with Mkhitaryan and Martial's slow start to the season but he's very much a squad player for us now.

 

[Loublaze]

how exactly?

He's helped the team by scoring more goals than Cleverly did in less apps for United. Not the same position obviously but thats still a contribution in Lingards favor. Lingard won United the FA cup. Cleverly's biggest impact in a single game was the comm shield comeback against City in 2011. Cleverly had four seasons at United, Lingard only became a trusted squad player last season and he's already 20 apps short of catching up with Cleverly's tally

 

[Bwuk]

Lingard has personally achieved way more with United than Cleverly ever did. You can't compare them. The fact is Lingard has proven himself as a useful player to two very successful managers. I think a lot of people will be upset when Lingard is still playing for United beyond this summer's transfer window

Cleverly started in midfield in a side that won the league.

 

[Loublaze]

Cleverly started in midfield in a side that won the league.

Many sub appearances to be fair. He never once even made it past 22 league appearances

 

[Scholesy]

He's helped the team by scoring more goals than Cleverly did in less apps for United. Not the same position obviously but thats still a contribution in Lingards favor. Lingard won United the FA cup. Cleverly's biggest impact in a single game was the comm shield comeback against City in 2011. Cleverly had four seasons at United, Lingard only became a trusted squad player last season and he's already 20 apps short of catching up with Cleverly's tally

So if Cleverley had scored the winner in an FA CUP final, this means he is good enough to stay at United.

Lingard is one of the worst players I have seen play regularly for United.

 

[Rightnr]

Lingard is good for games away from home where we need his energy. The way he hounded WBA players was great.

He shouldn't start most games but can be a useful squad player, in a Nicky Butt vein.

He certainly deserves to be part of the squad as opposed to Fellaini.

 

[Loublaze]

So if Cleverley had scored the winner in an FA CUP final, this means he is good enough to stay at United.

Lingard is one of the worst players I have seen play regularly for United.

Comprehension is not that hard. I was comparing their careers at OT on an individual level. The record will always show that Lingard won United an FA cup whether you think he's good enough or not. Cleverly will be forgotten completely. Lingard has had a better personal OT career than Cleverly

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He shouldn't start most games but can be a useful squad player, in a Nicky Butt vein.

There it is again.

Some serious underrating of the likes of Park, Brown & Butt on this forum.

 

[iammemphis]

At the end of the day you need players like Lingard. He cost the club nothing, his wages won't be extortionate, he loves the club, and he is capable of putting in a quality performance.

He is not consistent, he is not world class but he's also not the finished product which gives him some room for error in repsects to poor performances with us. As long as he trains well and produces the odd moment of magic during games then he will be here for the long term, unless he desires regular first team football.

The only thing is we will have to accept that he is likely to put in an average performance here and there, and thats part and parcel of being a back up player. You're back up for a reason, ultimately you're not good enough. So we have to stick with him through the good and the bad. Fletcher, Wes Brown, O'Shea, Phil Neville... we've had them over the years, and how crucial they had been at times despite them having prolonged periods of poor performances from time to time.

 

[Minimalist]

He doesn't need defending. He gets a wide range of plaudits and critics.

 

[Rightnr]

There it is again.

Some serious underrating of the likes of Park, Brown & Butt on this forum.

Not necessarily the same quality of player but same role. I thought that was obvious.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Not necessarily the same quality of player but same role. I thought that was obvious.

One of those players was often selected ahead of Paul Scholes the year we won the treble so no it's not obvious.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He's helped the team by scoring more goals than Cleverly did in less apps for United. Not the same position obviously but thats still a contribution in Lingards favor. Lingard won United the FA cup. Cleverly's biggest impact in a single game was the comm shield comeback against City in 2011. Cleverly had four seasons at United, Lingard only became a trusted squad player last season and he's already 20 apps short of catching up with Cleverly's tally

So he's played less games than him yet is far more important? Not buying it at all. One Fa Cup final goal does not count for enough to say he is more important than a player who started regularly the last time we won the league. The 4 seasons thing is also silly seeing as Cleverley actually broke into the team at a younger age, it took Lingard until he was 23 to get a game.

Anyway neither are good enough for Utd.

 

[Loublaze]

So he's played less games than him yet is far more important? Not buying it at all. One Fa Cup final goal does not count for enough to say he is more important than a player who started regularly the last time we won the league. The 4 seasons thing is also silly seeing as Cleverley actually broke into the team at a younger age, it took Lingard until he was 23 to get a game.

Anyway neither are good enough for Utd.

Where did I use the word 'important'? I simply said Lingard has had the better Old trafford career between the two. He's also proved more important than Cleverly though. LVG and Mourinho have both counted on him. Moyes hardly used him (many sub appearances in his 22 league games that season) and LVG got rid at the first chance. I remember people (including myself) were clamoring for Cleverly to get more minutes and wondered why Fergie didn't trust him enough. It was thought/hoped he'd be the next Scholes or the next closest thing to him by many on here.
Those hopes were quickly shut down the first full season he was getting some starts and given more responsibility (2012-13). He did decent with Anderson for a few games and then went to shit. He quickly became a figure of hate among the supporters in general and on here. Even Darron Gibson didn't get as much hate as Cleverly did at the end of his United career. Lingard hasn't really put a foot wrong in his appearances and no one is even saying he's going to be the next big thing. The majority of posters on here who support Lingard know he's only a very useful squad player nothing more

 

[Devil81]

Squad player, nothing more.

I appreciate what he brings to the squad and he's clearly a very popular figure with the group.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Where did I use the word 'important'? I simply said Lingard has had the better Old trafford career between the two. He's also proved more important than Cleverly though. LVG and Mourinho have both counted on him. Moyes hardly used him (many sub appearances in his 22 league games that season) and LVG got rid at the first chance. I remember people (including myself) were clamoring for Cleverly to get more minutes and wondered why Fergie didn't trust him enough. It was thought/hoped he'd be the next Scholes or the next closest thing to him by many on here.
Those hopes were quickly shut down the first full season he was getting some starts and given more responsibility (2012-13). He did decent with Anderson for a few games and then went to shit. He quickly became a figure of hate among the supporters in general and on here. Even Darron Gibson didn't get as much hate as Cleverly did at the end of his United career. Lingard hasn't really put a foot wrong in his appearances and no one is even saying he's going to be the next big thing. The majority of posters on here who support Lingard know he's only a very useful squad player nothing more

There's an awful lot in there that's largely irrelevant to the fact that Lingard has achieved no more here than Cleverley did. I'd say he's achieved less, Cleverley actually won a PL.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He has his uses. That video should be about 2 minutes shorter though.

I like Lingard but that video recycles the same 4 or 5 clips.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

SirScholes and Paul the Wolf will be along shortly.

Just noticed this thread - you know my opinion of him (as a player); don't know why we've got another thread.
Even seen some comments on here that he's been very good this season.
I've watched every minute of every game and there must be an alternative universe somewhere.

The reason he is getting criticised is because he's not very good, not good enough.
If he's still here in 5 years time, he'll be lauded if he even touches the ball and will develop into a reasonable player when he matures from being a 16yo (sorry 24yo player), but we'll be reminded over and over and over again that he scored the winner in the Cup Final back in 2016. Yes I watched that match and every other match he's played as well.

 

[HoopsMcCann]

Like him. Especially as he's a youth product.

He's a willing runner who can play nice 1 2's with our talented players.

When mufc gets back to threatening UCL titles he probably shouldn't be near the team with any regulatory.

 

[ivaldo]

He wouldn't start for Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, City or Spurs.

Pedro, Milner, N'koudou, Sissoko, Moses, Ox, Moses, Alonso, Iwobi etc all start plenty of games for those sides.

 

[Revan]

Pedro, Milner, N'koudou, Sissoko, Moses, Ox, Moses, Alonso, Iwobi etc all start plenty of games for those sides.

So do Hazard, Costa, Kante and Coutinho, to be fair.

 

[ivaldo]

So do Hazard, Costa, Kante and Coutinho, to be fair.

I dont get your point, likewise we have Ibra, Martial, Mhkitaryan, Pogba etc.

Despite having those players the ones I listed still feature regularly, they aren't exactly levels above Lingard so to say Jesse would start games for them is untrue.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I dont get your point, likewise we have Ibra, Martial, Mhkitaryan, Pogba etc.

Despite having those players the ones I listed still feature regularly, they aren't exactly levels above Lingard so to say Jesse would start games for them is untrue.

You actually think that Lingard is as good as the players you listed?

 

[Revan]

I dont get your point, likewise we have Ibra, Martial, Mhkitaryan, Pogba etc.

Despite having those players the ones I listed still feature regularly, they aren't exactly levels above Lingard so to say Jesse would start games for them is untrue.

Lingard is not in the same level as most players in that list, with Iwobi being played cause he is still very young so not a comparable solution. N'Kodou doesn't play that much and is quite young too.

Come on, Pedro is several level above Lingard, no idea why you put him in a list with players who are similar to Lingard on quality.

 

[G-manc]

He's had the odd good moment but i'm not sure he has the capacity to improve much on where he is now. It might just be me but he appears to have has a tendency to fade badly in games to the point he's almost anonymous in the second half.

 

[Lawman]

Cleverly played 13 times for England.Jesse played the last 2 England games is he an English regular now?

No that's my point I think both them are a similar standard. Think you may have missed previous posts in this conversation.

 

[El Jefe]

Do people think our players get criticised for no reason?

Its fairly simple, if you under perform or show a lack of quality especially in attacking positions you will definitely be criticised.

Everybody has critics but for the most part the consensus of the individual player performance threads tend to be correct,

Out of our regular players, Lingard, Fellaini and Darmian have received the most criticism. I don't believe its because they're not liked, its quite clearly because they have the least quality in their positions and have yet to prove they deserve to play for a club like ours.

Personally I actually like Lingard but he really needs to improve his end product because you can't justify being a United player off mentality and work rate alone.

 

[Bwuk]

Pedro, Milner, N'koudou, Sissoko, Moses, Ox, Moses, Alonso, Iwobi etc all start plenty of games for those sides.

Pedro is much better.
Milner is a left back, not really comparable is it, and he's been one of the better left backs in the league anyway.
Nkoudou has played 3 times in the league, hardly similar to Jesse.
Moses and Alonso are wing backs, again not comparable but they start every week for the team top of the league.
Iwobi and Oxlade are better.
Sissoko is a bit of a donkey I'll give you that, but he's not a starter either.

 

[ivaldo]

Pedro is much better.
Milner is a left back, not really comparable is it, and he's been one of the better left backs in the league anyway.
Nkoudou has played 3 times in the league, hardly similar to Jesse.
Moses and Alonso are wing backs, again not comparable but they start every week for the team top of the league.
Iwobi and Oxlade are better.
Sissoko is a bit of a donkey I'll give you that, but he's not a starter either.

It's comparable players. I wouldn't be able to list wingers for Chelsea because they have none.

Iwobi has scored 3 goals in 27 appearances despite playing more offensively than Lingard. Oxlade Chamberlain has been absolutely dogshit this season.

Up until this season Victor Moses might as well have been in Narnia he was that out of favour and Alonso wasn't even a standout player for Fiorentina, hell, he was putting in average performances for Sunderland just two years ago.

Lingard is not in the same level as most players in that list, with Iwobi being played cause he is still very young so not a comparable solution. N'Kodou doesn't play that much and is quite young too.

Come on, Pedro is several level above Lingard, no idea why you put him in a list with players who are similar to Lingard on quality.

I'll give you Pedro, and Milner is marmite (I don't rate him nearly as much as some seem to) but yes I do. Lingard got game time because Mourinho wanted Martial, Rashford and Mhikitaryan to have an extended period out of the side to sort their form out. Now that form is returning he'll play less and less and will be a squad player. He's a squad plsyet who is perfectly capable of playing plenty of games for us, those players I listed hold similar if not higher roles within their respective squads, if Lingard was at any of those clubs mentioned he would be getting game time.

 

[Loublaze]

There's an awful lot in there that's largely irrelevant to the fact that Lingard has achieved no more here than Cleverley did. I'd say he's achieved less, Cleverley actually won a PL.

As a bit part player he did. Lingard scored the winner in an FA cup final. Now tell me which name will be entrenched in history forever

 

[Paul the Wolf]

As that's the 16,457th time we've been reminded that Lingard scored the winner in the Cup Final, as SAF often said, right that's done, that's in the past, let's move on and improve and go again.

 

[Brightonian]

I'm absolutely baffled as to why some care so much that not everyone rates him. I mean, like seriously, who actually cares? If you think he's great then good for you, if you don't, then good for you. I swear some on here get personally offended when he gets criticised. This thread says it all.

Isn't it similarly weird how personally offended you are by how personally offended they are? This is a forum; its entire purpose is people responding to one another's opinions.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Isn't it similarly weird how personally offended you are by how personally offended they are? This is a forum; its entire purpose is people responding to one another's opinions.

Your post makes little sense. Starting a thread because a player supposedly gets all this alleged abuse is kind of odd. This could just be discussed in his thread. I don't feel the need to start a thread questioning why people feel the need to start a defence of Lingard thread.

 

[Scholesy]

As a bit part player he did. Lingard scored the winner in an FA cup final. Now tell me which name will be entrenched in history forever

I don't get this because Eder scored winner for Portugal in Euro 2016 but he is still a rubbish player.

 

[Loublaze]

I don't get this because Eder scored winner for Portugal in Euro 2016 but he is still a rubbish player.

He's a Euro 2016 hero and you can't take that away from him. Cleverly vs Lingard is not even debatable. Lingard in his short career (only in his second season as a first team player) has already eclipsed him and that is what im specifically talking about.

 

[Loublaze]

Isn't it similarly weird how personally offended you are by how personally offended they are? This is a forum; its entire purpose is people responding to one another's opinions.

This

The thread is legit

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Lee Martin, anybody?

 

[Scholesy]

Its also an insult to Butt, Park, Fletcher, OShea by comparing them to Lingard who imo is Championship quality at best