Don't vote Tory then.
General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time
- Thread starter altodevil
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So you were privileged enough to go to Private School and born to parents rich enough to facilitate that and afford private healthcare and think that the only difference between you and the unwashed masses is they just don't work hard enough?
You're insane.
Apart from the education you talk about. The healthcare that saw you all born safely an dprovides a healthy workforce the for the businesses that pay you all. The infrastructure that allows you to have a home that is reasonably safe, providing a legal system that ensures your business can function and provide social cohesion that means you don't need to hire bodyguards for the trip to waitrose.
The transport system that lets you travel around, the telephone infrastructure that allows you to visit this forum and presumably use the internet for commercial work.
But apart from that, you did it all by yourself.
It might have post me the link(Sorry)but still isn't this just anecdotal evidence. Here's a research from the LSE(London School of economics) saying EU migrants have had no negative effect on wages - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...s-had-no-negative-effect-on-uk-wages-says-lse
Amazing. Yes some people have died days or weeks after being found fit to work, either from the very thing they were actually suffering from or killing themselves so not to be a financial burden on their families and over half of appeals against being found fit to work are successful, but scroungers. We all know scroungers.
Go for it. After 20 years, Im fed up with it.
You've laid out other principles of yours in other threads which also run against Tory positions, like the Western world accepting the death of many innocent civilians when bombing in countries of the Middle East and elsewhere. Or that many Tories beat openly the anti-muslim drum.
I guess you have to weigh all your principles carefully and see what's utmost important to you. It'll be a choice between pest and cholera but whatever you choose, you'll embrace the downsides with your vote too and are therefore co-responsible for it.
Do you believe that even when you control hours worked and the 'effort' (however you measure it) put in, that all forms of work are paid the same? You obviously don't.
Do you think children choose their parents? Choose their school at a young age? Obviously you don't.
Lots of people succeed despite their disadvantages (like you've tried to provide in your previous post) but there's no guarantee that everyone can do that.
It's about balance really. Everything you have in life is partly down to your actions and a bit of fecking luck (the hand your dealt). It's not all bad luck if you're poor and it's not all down to your 'hard work' if you're rich. If you believe that you've never been lucky at some point in your career I would call you a rare exception - everyone gets a rub of the green.
For those who don't always get that path laid out in front of them and their circumstances hold them back a bit, I think our society should provide what they need to live a life of decency. If we can't then I would suggest we're not that great a country at all.
(For clarity, I consider myself a left leaning centrist - my views cross over a lot but I believe looking after those at the bottom benefits everyone and I think research confirms this.)
after already paying 45%??? When does it end?Because another 2% or some bollocks isn't going to kill you, you tightfisted get.
Corbyn can feck off.
In your shoes, I'd probably vote Tory too.
In an ideal world, no-one would get taxed more than 40% of their income. I mean that's an insane figure already. I'd much rather drop the additional tax rate, but have a banded rate for VAT (so any product above £2k is 30% VAT, and anything above £10k is 40% VAT) than have that.
There is an old-money vs new-money argument here too. Old-money doesn't get taxed, except through inheritance, and even then it's probably be turned into a trust fund (no inheritance tax).
You are new-money. New money get's taxed. New money isn't as worthy as old-money for no apparent reason.
But I mean, if I where you, I'd just stick most of money into a SIPP for my children anyway, then hope I die young
It's so bloody common.
'I worked hard and I've been rewarded for it, so surely everyone else can just do the same?'.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
As for your last point, this country already has far more 'help' for the people you claim are 'unlucky'. More than enough. Its already very fair.
Anyways, thats what votes are for: but its very clear Corbyn is going to lose many lifelong labour voters in the election.
I would definitely trust research like this other anecdotal evidence, but it's the anecdotal stuff that wins
"Work harder". The ignorance.
An absolutely ridiculous post. How self-centred and ignorant.
You never got back to me and my reply citing David Clapson. Any chance?
You live in a country where basically half your needs are provided by the state. You have private healthcare because you choose to, you have first world infrastructure and opportunity, high levels of security with an effective and uncorrupt police force (cnuts though they frequently are). If your entire life goes to shit through no fault of your own (like some of those poor people you think should just 'work harder'), you will not be left to starve in a gutter or die from preventable illness, society will take care of you and help you back on your feet.
Or rather it would until these Tory cnuts started ripping our safety nets to pieces to give tax cuts to corporations. So yes, after paying 45% you can still afford a few % more. Or you can sell your morals down the river and get on the good ship Austerity, and cheer as poor and disabled people starve and freeze to death.
There have been numerous cases of people suffering upon being wrongly returned to work. Sure, there are people that take the mickey. The scroungers, as we like to call them. But they're a very small minority of people that are inflated and used by the Tory government in an attempt to justify their cuts on things such as PIP and other important social welfare spending. Social welfare gets cut with each passing budget and I can assure you it isn't the 'scroungers' who lose out.
If you act upon just 1% of your accountants advice, the 'tilt' has already happened. Tell me you don't.
I'm happy to agree to disagree.
I will say that judging from your response to another poster, it seems you've been incredibly lucky to have the parents you did.
Sammsky seems the kind of person who when stabbed, would push the blade deeper into his chest because you're not doing hard enough.
Well said and yes much research confirms this.
No point presenting such arguments though, people who make the arguments Sammsky is making use the strawman of the lazy unwashed to rationalise away their horrible opinions.
Its all moot anyway as it isnt even what Corbyn was saying he just made the quotes up. Investment (aka putting more money into the economy) reaps benefits for us all.
Surely they wouldn't let themselves get close enough to the great unwashed for that to happen?
This reads as a UKIP recruitment advert.
Thank you for your empathy. I think its very unfair people like me are criticised for taking advantage of the amazing opportunities this country offers everybody. In return for that chance, people like me have always been socially minded. But there has to be a limit, especially as UK is very different now to what it was 30 years ago. We don't have 3m unemployed nor are we exiting from a winter of discontent with rubbish not being collected.In your shoes, I'd probably vote Tory too.
In an ideal world, no-one would get taxed more than 40% of their income. I mean that's an insane figure already. I'd much rather drop the additional tax rate, but have a banded rate for VAT (so any product above £2k is 30% VAT, and anything above £10k is 40% VAT) than have that.
There is an old-money vs new-money argument here too. Old-money doesn't get taxed, except through inheritance, and even then it's probably be turned into a trust fund (no inheritance tax).
You are new-money. New money get's taxed. New money isn't as worthy as old-money for no apparent reason.
But I mean, if I where you, I'd just stick most of money into a SIPP for my children anyway, then hope I die young
My point on all this is Corbyn's Labour message is totally out of touch with a 21st century advanced economy country. Which is a massive mistake as he will lose truck loads off voters.
Fed up of what?
You see, having money is not on its own a route to a good life. You need everything that goes with it. I have absolutely no objection to tax money supporting the poorest in society, mostly because I know that one bad turn of luck at the wrong time and it could be me down there, you know, a bit of compassion, but also because it benefits me. You know what is worse than people relying on the state for food? Starving people left to their own devices.
Guess what, giving everyone a chance costs money, when I started out I got free education, I got dole money during the summer when I was at university and I got my education paid for. It was a great investment, given how much tax I have paid since. I want every kid to have the chance I had, not draw up the ladder and leave them to it. That costs money. Its money well spent if you give any sort of shit about the future.
Im a 2nd Generation immigrant so how can it be UKIP?!
Please don't everyone pile onto @sammsky1
- He doesn't use the NHS
- Didn't use our School system
- Labour charged the higher earners 50% income tax, whilst putting huge debts on the country.
- The Tories are doing a better job of balancing the books, whilst taking low-earners out of income tax.
- He probably pays more tax right now than everyone criticizing him put together (maybe)
If I was in his shoes, I'd probably vote Tory too
See it from his perspective though.
- He doesn't use the NHS
- Didn't use our School system
- Labour charged the higher earners 50% income tax, whilst putting huge debts on the country.
- The Tories are doing a better job of balancing the books, whilst taking low-earners out of income tax.
- He probably pays more tax right now than everyone criticizing him put together (maybe)
If I was in his shoes, I'd probably vote Tory too
'I worked hard and I get paid for my every day work and I pay the tax the government wants me to, don't tax me even more'.
You are a leftie aren't you? What do you do for a living?
You being hypothetically selfish doesn't make him potentially voting Tory cause he doesn't want to support the poor less selfish.
"Work harder". The ignorance.
Cheap shots. of course you have no valid or worthy opposition. Much too much hard work to type out an answer.
Private health companies use the NHS. They're not building their own hospitals, just giving the rich access to the fast lane. Like the expensive ticket at theme parks.
There's an elephant in the room but I'm alright Jack.
I pay enough that my business gets by, I'm not driving a new car, i dont have money in the bank, the business pays it's way. You can't equate my business to a huge corporate business that avoids millions yearly in tax, don't be silly.
Hang on. You are unhappy about Brexit so you are going to vote Tory?
Tbf with that "feck you I got mine" attitude you should probably be voting for them anyway.
Everyone is born with the same intelligence, abilities, wealth and contacts. Didn't you get the memo? There's no excuse for anyone to be poor and not get a good job in this day and age.
It doesn't take much explanation. The sad thing is, you're not alone in your view. You're not some random wally on the internet. There are millions of people in the UK that, like you, believe vehemently that their own hard work has contributed heavily to their tax band and standard of living. You've even managed to convince yourself (a privately educated individual with private healthcare) that there are no poor people in the UK - all because, of course, you were able to self-fund your own trip to Bangladesh and Brazil and walk around a favela.
I'm a commodities trader.
Also, the poor don't exist.
Most people will vote selfishly even if they won't admit it. I know I will and I'll vote conservative for that reason. Me and as a result my family will be better off if they stay in power.In your shoes, I'd probably vote Tory too.
In an ideal world, no-one would get taxed more than 40% of their income. I mean that's an insane figure already. I'd much rather drop the additional tax rate, but have a banded rate for VAT (so any product above £2k is 30% VAT, and anything above £10k is 40% VAT) than have that.
There is an old-money vs new-money argument here too. Old-money doesn't get taxed, except through inheritance, and even then it's probably be turned into a trust fund (no inheritance tax).
You are new-money. New money get's taxed. New money isn't as worthy as old-money for no apparent reason.
But I mean, if I where you, I'd just stick most of money into a SIPP for my children anyway, then hope I die young
It would be great if the poorest people in society, who work hard and get paid very little could get more, but as its a choice between my family and however many people fall into the 'poor but work hard' category, then I'm going to choose my family.
The interesting question is I ever have have millions and millions and could easily afford to not have quite so much, would I change my mind? I'd like to think I would but couldn't say with 100% certainty. Actually, I'd like to have that decision to make