Don't care as long as we're in the final.
Would prefer Ajax simply because it will be two big European clubs in the final.
Would prefer Ajax simply because it will be two big European clubs in the final.
Europa League SFs | Ajax vs Lyon
- Thread starter Sammyjunn
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
except the last few games at OT
So why did Lacazette not start?
Yes, obviously it will be great from a PR point of view. Of course i want Ajax to win but as a football fan in general i try my best to see the things more objective, not just as a black and white.. You better beat Celta and see you in the final (well i dont believe Lyon can make a Barca comeback, right?!
)He isn't fully fit. Was supposed to play only 20 minutes in their next league game
Thats a shame. Hope he plays in the next one
Lyon were a shambles defensively. That 3rd goal they conceded sums up their night. They've left themselves with too much to do IMO. It will surely be Ajax awaiting the victor in the final.
Was Lyon missing key defenders or it just Ajax were too good?
It was good match to watch - pretty open one. Lyon had their fair number of chances and should've finished better. Traore had a great game and was the difference maker both in his finishing and movement and creating for others. Lyon's CB pair was wank and they let a lot of space between the lines and even between themselves. Don't know why Rafael didn't start their right back was poor all over.
We should be beating both teams, but then again in a one off match nothing is given.
Based on what? Quality, maybe. Tactics, no. Willingsness, no. Aggressiveness, no.
Can't understand why Lacazette didn't start. They could have score one more goal at least.
Lacazette was injured. Wasn't supposed to play at all.
How can you watch that game and put them above us tactically? That was a mess, no willingness on either side to track back leaving holes all over the pitch.
Everybody had time on the ball.
Best part of the game was how young Ajax team is. Their defense is so young, oldest player is 21, that's FMesque.
Their attack was superb and played without any fear, something you expect from young team. Probably best game I watched in Europa this season.
Their attack was superb and played without any fear, something you expect from young team. Probably best game I watched in Europa this season.
That's mainly because both teams know how to create space instead of waiting for it. It's not too long ago Ajax beat Ferguson's United at OT, Ajax has a much better manager and many better players now. And United?
That has nothing to do with last night. Most of last nights Ajax team would have still been in school lol.
Last night tactics went out the window.
Juve was a tactical masterclass, even Swansea at OT last Sunday.
Last night was two teams who forgot or had no intention of defending.
It's why Ajax came so close to being knocked out by Schalke. It isn't by design.
We roast Blind and Pogba for mistakes or lack of concentration that's levels below the madness from last night.
Yeah Jose a serial winner and a master tactician can't outthink Ajax and Celta. Feck me.
Defence is not the strong point of this or any Ajax in history. But tactics aren't limited to defending and it's not that easy to make this Ajax defend. The Ajax that beat United at OT was very young too, and mainly more defensive because it wasn't very competent in attack. Clubs like Schalke and Lyon can spend on players 5 or 6 times more than Ajax, these players are generally better and more used to a high pace game where players run faster, turn quicker, jump higher etc, it would be really embarrassing if they couldn't pose any threat to Ajax at all.
But Ajax plays a much more sophisticated game in which all the players move and pass to an attacking plan. They can move the ball around very quickly because they are selected on and trained in positional awareness. You say tactics were out of the window, Ajax supporters watching this United would say that only very basic primitive tactics made it into the building. That's something any team has to find an answer to, no matter how much better the players are individually. To be honest, I don't think Pogba would have made it into this Ajax, not after he got properly schooled and trained in vision and awareness. It's not just a difference in level, at Ajax there's more tolerance for defensive mistakes, but little tolerance for indecisive dwelling on the ball and lack of awareness about what's happening behind a players back for example. All the players need to have a properly developped and schooled football brain to play these attacking tactics. Tactically Ajax is well ahead of any PL club, that's why they are in the semi's in the first place.
I believe Jose has won 6 finals in a row? I'd expect him to easily to navigate through Ajax in the final.
Sanctimonious garbage. Jesus Christ, did you type this comment while simultaneously giving yourself a big old pat on the back?
Ok, ok
Hopefully we will stick with Pogba and our primitive tactics.Quality we're much better, tactics as well, defence ditto. Willingness and aggressiveness you have a point especially since they'll be the underdogs.
I would agree.
No. Their defence is just their weakest part. If we were about to play them in the final, I'd say we should take full advantage of their left side and their defence in general. Neither Morel nor Rybus are any good consistently. Rafael hasn't improved since leaving United and Jallet hasn't been as good or fit enough compared to previous years. Their centre backs (Diakhaby and Mammana) are very talented, but both of them need someone alongside them that has more experience, since they are only 20/21 and prone to errors. Someone who could give them that is NKoulou, but he hasn't been as good for them as he was for Marseille. Lopes has had very good games and yesterday he had his moments, but he also made very stupid mistakes in terms of distribution. Their coach Genesio doesn't help by constantly changing their midfield and not adapting to their flaws, when they are away from home.
It was a very naive display by Lyon, which I've seen before this season away from home. Would be typical of them, if they were much better at home in the second leg.
Disagree with pretty much the whole post. Ajax had excellent defence in the early 70's, then in the 90's pretty good one as well. Since the turn of the century gradually the quality of the defence in Holland has decreased - same goes for Feyenord and PSV.
Pass and move tactics aren't really something new to the game or revolutionary from that Ajax side. They are very good technically because that is the focus of the game in the Dutch league, that doesn't mean that tactically they are better than United side especially under Mourinho.
While technically that Ajax side can be very efficient, positionaly and defensively there is a lot to ask for. Most of the young players that were on last night lack the positional awareness and experience which in a cagey game and against better opposition leaves a lot of gaps both in midfield and at the back.
Against Lyon it was quite an open game which played to their style - hence they won it comfortable having also in mind that Lyon attackers were also pretty poor both in finishing and creating chances.
As for Pogba not making it in this Ajax side -
Ajax is very vulnerable, a couple of not very unusual mistakes and for example Rashford could have them 2-0 down after 15 minutes. Lyon could still go through, they've got a reasonable chance, United could sweep them aside 5-0. But lack of defensive solidity doesn't always lead to goals and shouldn't be confused with lack of tactical quality. It's just Ajax's choice to take defensive risks and hope they'll score more, that could go terribly wrong but doesn't need to. It was a very open game because Lyon is quite good at creating space too, a lot better than United. In general quality in Dutch football has decreased, it has suffered enormously from Bosman and football beeing sold out to business interests. Defending has never been a Dutch strength and certainly not at Ajax, the defenders of 95's Ajax were good at contributing to the attack. But if you have to compete with little money to spend, you might get quite good at it after years of experience, and before Bosman in the 90's, Ajax ruled Europe too with Real Madrid and AC Milan having 6 times more to spend. Because of the increased importance of mony the best clubs in Europe are out of reach now for Ajax, but that's not much different for United despite their money.Disagree with pretty much the whole post. Ajax had excellent defence in the early 70's, then in the 90's pretty good one as well. Since the turn of the century gradually the quality of the defence in Holland has decreased - same goes for Feyenord and PSV.
Pass and move tactics aren't really something new to the game or revolutionary from that Ajax side. They are very good technically because that is the focus of the game in the Dutch league, that doesn't mean that tactically they are better than United side especially under Mourinho.
While technically that Ajax side can be very efficient, positionaly and defensively there is a lot to ask for. Most of the young players that were on last night lack the positional awareness and experience which in a cagey game and against better opposition leaves a lot of gaps both in midfield and at the back.
Against Lyon it was quite an open game which played to their style - hence they won it comfortable having also in mind that Lyon attackers were also pretty poor both in finishing and creating chances.
As for Pogba not making it in this Ajax side -
I agree this Ajax isn't revolutionary, but it takes a lot of training and schooling to execute these tactics properly. Then they give a significant advantage. PL clubs don't have the time or patience to work on something like that. I don't think Pogba is an intelligent player, to put it mildly, his awareness is one of the worst I've seen recently. At Ajax the bar for a football brain is set quite high, and allthough he has progressed recently, most Ajax fans think that Younes just 'doesn't see it' for example, and that's not about his finishing. Ziyech is right up there with the best when it comes to awareness and vision. It's a different approach to football, not to be confused with tactical shortcomings. The current approach of United seems to be to splash cash around and let these expensive players figure out how to create a chance, allthough a lot of them aren't even very good at figuring out. But a team playing together better is always a threat to a team with better players, that's part of football.
Mastertactician Mourinho eased you past mighty Anderlecht, didn't he? I don't think in these troubled times this arrogance is very helpful, or justified.Ok, ok
He's an LVG disciple. What else do you expect?
Hard times indeed, but saying that Pogba wouldn't get into Ajax midfield is absolutely not true. Can you explain how come the Dutch Footballer of year in 2012 - 2013 can get a game in midfield for such a primitive team?
Wilfred Bony in midfield? I'm afraid I don't get the question when it's about Blind anyway.
The point is that this game is only partly about skill and athleticism is of course an advantage, but a good football brain is a necessity the move the ball around quickly. Pogba's football brain is too slow, and once he has turned, he hasn't the faintest idea what going on behind his back. That would slow down the midfield much more than Schone's lack of agility.
He can't get it in because Mourinho is a primitive tactician, simples
It was 2013-2014, sorry my mistake.
"His game is only partly about skill and athleticism", even you realize that his game is more than skill and athleticism. I will give you that he is holding on the ball for too long some time, but he has improved on that level recently. If you think he lacks a "good football brain" than you either haven't seen him playing or are just wumming.
I guess so.He can't get it in because Mourinho is a primitive tactician, simples
We, Ajax, havent made it yet to the finals. We could loose 3-0 away at Lyon and miss the finals.
I believe we will make it, but it will be tough.
Would we reach the finals, I hope we meet United. Great names for a final.
The road to the finals have been an exhilarating one. We have seen great promise from our team.
We can win from any team in the finals, whether it will be United or Celta.
We could even beat them 3 to 0 on a great day.
We can also lose 3-0 on a bad day.
No matter the result next week or in the final, I am proud to be an Ajax fan. We have seen some fantastic displays of football from young players.
I believe we will make it, but it will be tough.
Would we reach the finals, I hope we meet United. Great names for a final.
The road to the finals have been an exhilarating one. We have seen great promise from our team.
We can win from any team in the finals, whether it will be United or Celta.
We could even beat them 3 to 0 on a great day.
We can also lose 3-0 on a bad day.
No matter the result next week or in the final, I am proud to be an Ajax fan. We have seen some fantastic displays of football from young players.
I said 'this game', not his, because I meant the Ajax game.
Or I know a bit more about Ajax' traditional game and understand why the bar is set higher there, set the bar a bit higher myself for players at United and can recognize a slow football brain better?
Still don't understand your point about Blind.
And for the general information: Ajax played with 3 back up players in defense.
And for Mourinho being a great tactician: This season alot of the fans here on the caf seem to disagree.
He masters defensive tactics, but attacking wise there seems not to be much of a plan other than: Kick it in the goal!
I am following United as only foreign club for a while and I really disliked Mourinho coming here.
I disliked him before he came to United, I disliked him coming to United, I dislike him at United and I will probably dislike him after United.
I don't like him winning the Europa League, but if it's any other club than Ajax I like it being United.
And for Mourinho being a great tactician: This season alot of the fans here on the caf seem to disagree.
He masters defensive tactics, but attacking wise there seems not to be much of a plan other than: Kick it in the goal!
I am following United as only foreign club for a while and I really disliked Mourinho coming here.
I disliked him before he came to United, I disliked him coming to United, I dislike him at United and I will probably dislike him after United.
I don't like him winning the Europa League, but if it's any other club than Ajax I like it being United.
I don't doubt you know more about Ajax, but Pogba not getting in the Ajax first team is plain stupid. You were looking for a reaction. I shouldn't have replied in the first place.
Blind was player of the year in Holland, yet he is not suited to play in midfield in a primitive United. That was the point.
If both teams get to the final we will find out who is better midfielder and who's primitive
So Ajax-United in the final
Pogba would walk into that Ajax side, and so would Herrera for that matter. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
This statement is genuinely one of the worst I've read on here for a long, long time. Try watching a football match next time rather than spitting out this nonsense.
Of course I'll be supporting Ajax in the final (whether it's United or Celta) after having lived through the 'total football' era, and resided in Amsterdam for a while, going to a few matches. It'd be great to see them return even to a shadow of their former greatness. However some of the comments (wummery) in this thread is worthy of the Liverpool threads - I'm taking notes