Because he gives what we want. Look at Claudio Bravo. He was pretty old and cost quite a bit but he gave City what they needed - a goalkeeper who could play out from the back. If he does the specific role that Jose wants him for then who cares if he's not the ideal type of signing? Of course Bravo had a poor season but that's neither here nor there.
Ivan Perisic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Not feeling this one to be honest. I wouldn't want to be spending so much on a 28 year old if we can avoid it. Personally I'd prefer Costa from Bayern if we're signing a winger this summer, think he'd offer us more and we'd get more from the deal. I'd much rather get Martial playing from the left for next season. Hoping a full summers rest will do him good and will help him back in to form. Happy to be corrected if he comes and does well.
Can Perisic be like Valencia and play left-back?
Most people would prefer to have players like Martial and Shaw killing it next season, but that's not a risk we can take. Jose will be getting in more of his own players, we need to challenge next season. We can't be relying on maybe players.
Carrying on from the thread I created in the newbies, he IS a good player and WILL improve us. I do not get where everyone has got the idea that he is a bad player from. SIGN HIM.
He's a better player than Lucas Moura as well, I wouldn't be up for signing him.
He's a better player than Lucas Moura as well, I wouldn't be up for signing him.
I only saw the last 20 minutes of the Inter-Udinese game today. Perisic had already been subbed out but the showed all of the highlights.
Perisic had a goal and 2 assists.
Perisic had a goal and 2 assists.
Not for nothing, but Martial is NOT a maybe player, he's a developing player. I honestly can't believe the criticism he's got this season; fans seem to expect young players to be instantly and consistently good, but the fact is dips are natural at that age, they're still learning their trade and developing their game. Think about how raw Ronaldo was at Martial's age.
By the way, not saying we shouldn't sign Perisic for that reason (he offers some things that are different to Martial) just that we shouldn't lose faith in him after one difficult season. His circumstance and Shaw's are very, very different, and even the latter could still come good.
I'll be honest, i've gone out of my way to watch a decent amount of video of Perisic because I didn't know too much about his game, and to be fair he looks a decent player. He's got pace, he's got experience, he can beat a man, he's good with both feet, he can cut in from out wide, he's a decent finisher, he seems to have a good work rate, he doesn't look like a total pushover, and it seems he's not bad in the air for a winger. He gets lots of decent crosses into the box, and it looks like he would probably suit our style.
If the price that Inter apparently want for him was halved, he'd probably be a pretty shrewd signing. If we do sign him and end up paying over £40m for him, I would feel like we'd had our pants pulled down, particularly when you consider the Bernardo Silva fee.
If the price that Inter apparently want for him was halved, he'd probably be a pretty shrewd signing. If we do sign him and end up paying over £40m for him, I would feel like we'd had our pants pulled down, particularly when you consider the Bernardo Silva fee.
50 mil for a avg 28 year old is a waste of time and money....have to be better options out there.
Talk about giving good example.
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Don't think anyone wants Martial to go. Huge fan myself but the last season tells me we need backup which will only help his growth. We played a lot of games and will continue to do so and going into a season just depending on him is risky as we found out.
Surely the Bravo signing is the perfect example for why not to sign him rather than the other way round.
The default defense of this signing seems to be "If Jose wants him, and with him being a world class manager who knows what he wants, then it must be a good thing"
Thats exactly what Pep did with Bravo. Sometimes even the best get it wrong, and it doesnt take a genius to see that.
To be fair pep wanted a ball playing GK and Bravo played the ball well. It's just that his shot stopping was poor but he probably wasn't signed for that
No because the reasons he was signed for weren't bad ones, it's just he turned out not to be a very good player (or, at least, he didn't perform very well).
I was more referring to him being a traditional winger (of which there aren't a lot) and if Jose feels he needs this we should go along with it. Much like if Jose prefers a Belotti type striker to an Aubameyang we should go along with it, even if we see no huge reason for it.
If Jose is the pragmatist and Pep the idealist, I'd go with the pragmatic choice every time.
I don't know if @notcool is for the signing or against it. Worst ever example to take surely.
Thats being extremely generous.To be fair pep wanted a ball playing GK and Bravo played the ball well. It's just that his shot stopping was poor but he probably wasn't signed for that
I certainly enjoyed watching Bravo play. Did he make a save last season?
Who was excited by Valencia, Ashley Young - even Fellaini - I doubt Perisic is the player to take us to the next level, but not every signing is. If he's a hard working winger who can both provide and score, and who works hard defensively then who cares about the cost. The Glazers have taken tens of millions (if not much more) out of the club, so who cares how much a player costs any more if they fill a need we have;
- Martial and Rashford aren't wingers - they're strikers learning their trade by playing wide.
- Mata and Mhiki aren't wingers - they're attacking midfielders being played wide.
- Lingard's best position is arguably more central.
- Valencia plays wing-back/full-back more than as a winger these days
- Young, as above plus he's far more of a squad player than a starter.
Yes. Mostly for Chile NT. Actually he 's quite consistently quite good for Chile with a good defensive systemThats being extremely generous.
I certainly enjoyed watching Bravo play. Did he make a save last season?
Back to Perisic. I personally rate him as kinda explosive player like Saha. Not quite top class, but close with many good attributes thus contribute greatly for the team. Should be able to responsibilities for the team but not a player that team heavily depended on. This means he can be a great enabler for a better players.
More than 2000 posts! Is this even on?
Ronaldo improved season on season, it was obvious to see. Martial has not improved, he's gotten worse. Fans expect players to look fully committed, that's where a lot of criticism has come from. No one questions his talent, more the application. I expect him to leave if we sign Perisic.
I think a lot of people here are very much for a traditional winger. Have hardly seen anyone against that idea.
I think a lot of people, including those that have watched Perisic for a while are just not convinced that player should be Perisic.
I have watched him a bit since his Wolfsburg days, and I am just underwhelmed by this signing. A lot of our current players get a lot of flack, and I am not sure if he's that superior in comparison to be honest.
I'm quite surprised at the general reaction to this. Yeah, the price is a little steep but he's every bit a £30m+ player.
When I read of our interest I instantly thought of the highlights above, and although he was a bit raw and inconsistent at Dortmund, I was disappointed when he left the club.
He offers much that we lack. I've not seen anyone match the off the ball, determined, powerful running that ronaldo and bale can provide, but this guy comes close. He's great in the air and has incredible work rate. He's good with both feet, direct and can finish. What more do we need?
I don't think he's the key to unlocking stubborn, deep defences, and I think that's why he's struggled to make a big impact in Italy, but he's ideal for the counter attacking system that Jose wants to implement. That said, our problem throughout the majority of the season was finishing, we created enough most of the time.
Would be a great signing, and I'm sure he would become a fan favourite too.
I certainly hope you are right.Yes. Mostly for Chile NT. Actually he 's quite consistently quite good for Chile with a good defensive system
Back to Perisic. I personally rate him as kinda explosive player like Saha. Not quite top class, but close with many good attributes thus contribute greatly for the team. Should be able to responsibilities for the team but not a player that team heavily depended on. This means he can be a great enabler for a better players.
Not against grafters per se, but we need that special bit of talent within our attack, which at times is rather blunt and predictable.
Ah, the voice of reason at last. Good post, I agree with most of what you've said here. For me, if we sign Perisic he should be a useful option (because he does offer something different to most players we have) but not the default first choice. I do however think that we shouldn't allow ourselves to be bled dry over a player like Perisic. There are times where we should be prepared to overspend, and other times where we shouldn't set a precedent by allowing clubs to squeeze us.
You're overall point however that not all signings are going to be big stars, and some will be functional, is the larger and more important one.
@worldinmotion66 That's the worst highlight video ever; a) an over hit cross b) passing the ball back to the fullback c) a tackle d) falling over the ball and losing it.
That's all in a row at the start of a three minute 'highlight' video....
That's all in a row at the start of a three minute 'highlight' video....
@Moonred
I'm not sure if i'm for or against it either. A lot of people seem to want a Ryan Giggs for either wing (who will run with the ball and then cross) or at least an Arjen Robben (who will stay wide until he gets the ball and then start to run inside). But football doesn't work like that. I wonder what Jose looks at the team and feels we need.
I'm not sure if i'm for or against it either. A lot of people seem to want a Ryan Giggs for either wing (who will run with the ball and then cross) or at least an Arjen Robben (who will stay wide until he gets the ball and then start to run inside). But football doesn't work like that. I wonder what Jose looks at the team and feels we need.
That's ok but the bravo example will just push the naysayers over the edge.
It's highlights from a handful of games at the highest level, not a glorified misrepresentation of a season's worth of matches. I posted it to show his powerful running and determination to get into the box, his finishing and his defensive ability.
Yes, those three transfers didn’t go well, however, the situations were completely different compared to Perisic. Both Falcao and Di Maria had proven their class before and were considered one of the best in their respective disciplines. Falcao had serious injury problems and it simply didn’t want to work out in England for him. Di Maria clearly was forced out of Madrid and since PSG weren’t able to buy him due to FFP he joined us – with his head clearly not here. Both of them are at least one level above Perisic and already were when we brought them in.
Depay on the other hand was/is way younger and also way more talented. He simply wasn’t ready for such a big step with the pressure everybody was expecting wonders from this young lad.
Perisic is a settled player who has achieved nothing special so far at the age of 28. For me he is simply average with a few moments of glory every season – or at a tournament like the EUROs last year.
That’s the main difference between the transfers you mentioned and a possible arrive of Perisic – two proven world class players and one of the most hailed talents and European football vs. an ego centered mediocre player..
Ronaldo had the same manager throughout that period, while Martial got a new one with significantly different expectations of him. Of course there was going to be a teething period. I really don't buy into this "not fully committed" argument either; he's got a demeanour that makes him look a little disinterested (re Berbatov), and maybe there was an attitude problem earlier in the season, but during the latter part he has worked as hard as anyone on the pitch.
I don't see any reason to believe Perisic will be the end of Martial. This season has shown we need strength in depth, and the two have very different skillsets that will each be useful for different games. To sell a 21 year old of Martial's talent, especially without giving him a chance to show some improvement next season, would be madness. If he does go (and I am almost certain he will stay) I will be absolutely livid.
I think that we're reading this too much with a one-track mind. Perisic brings a lot of strengths and adds some dimensions we've been missing massively on the wings. Overall, I'd say his strengths are:
- Pace and direct running
- Tireless work ethic
- Strength and size too
- Has a good shot on him
His drawback - and it's a clear one - is that he can't cross too well...or at all, depending on how stern your assessment is. This is why a lot of us feel he's not up to scratch as a signing for us. That said, I feel Mourinho is going by the system he wants to play and feels Perisic fits that. He clearly wants a left winger who can cut in and make direct runs or find space inside for someone to find him and of course, be able to score. This would require another key element that we've been linked with for a while now - a LB who can cross and attack well. Add a good LB with a good cross on him and we negate the weakness of Perisic while adding a massive amount to the team overall.
In the current team, our right winger needs to have a good cross, because Valencia - game trier that he is - generally seems to hope that the first defender will deflect it kindly for him, since he can't seem to avoid hitting the first defender every time he crosses. (This of course, is why I feel we also need an upgrade on him at RB despite his performances this season. We can't be CL challengers with Blind being the only FB option we have in the squad who can actually cross the ball.)
All said and done, let's get real. We won't be signing only "headline" players like Griezmann, Bale, James, Ronaldo, Messi etc. We have to be realistic and trust the manager to make the right choices. Bailly was hardly the signing that set the world alight and turned out to be an awesome buy (best defender of the last summer window?). Jose said his list was made months ago and I've learned from experience that when someone as meticulous as him makes a target list, it's generally based on sound logic and reasoning and has a better chance of succeeding than most (though there is of course, always the risk of failure).
- Pace and direct running
- Tireless work ethic
- Strength and size too
- Has a good shot on him
His drawback - and it's a clear one - is that he can't cross too well...or at all, depending on how stern your assessment is. This is why a lot of us feel he's not up to scratch as a signing for us. That said, I feel Mourinho is going by the system he wants to play and feels Perisic fits that. He clearly wants a left winger who can cut in and make direct runs or find space inside for someone to find him and of course, be able to score. This would require another key element that we've been linked with for a while now - a LB who can cross and attack well. Add a good LB with a good cross on him and we negate the weakness of Perisic while adding a massive amount to the team overall.
In the current team, our right winger needs to have a good cross, because Valencia - game trier that he is - generally seems to hope that the first defender will deflect it kindly for him, since he can't seem to avoid hitting the first defender every time he crosses. (This of course, is why I feel we also need an upgrade on him at RB despite his performances this season. We can't be CL challengers with Blind being the only FB option we have in the squad who can actually cross the ball.)
All said and done, let's get real. We won't be signing only "headline" players like Griezmann, Bale, James, Ronaldo, Messi etc. We have to be realistic and trust the manager to make the right choices. Bailly was hardly the signing that set the world alight and turned out to be an awesome buy (best defender of the last summer window?). Jose said his list was made months ago and I've learned from experience that when someone as meticulous as him makes a target list, it's generally based on sound logic and reasoning and has a better chance of succeeding than most (though there is of course, always the risk of failure).
Gives us something we dont really have, Direct runner and can actually put in a cross, good in the air, works hard, typical Jose signing, price a little steep but every transfer seems to be steep now, just that much money in football,
10 years ago we got Carrick for 15m, at a much younger age than Perisic.
Does anyone know if the Chelsea forum also had a meltdown about getting him?
While Perisic ain't that consistent having those glorious moment, his overall play is pretty consistent good. He is not flawed with a low bottom level. Even in game where he has no end product, he can still affect the game offensively: occupying defenders stretch play, movement to open up space for other, play simple pass to players in better position aka Valencia... His defensive play is consistent. There is no consistency in Memphis during his time with us.
Perisic does have glorious moment quite often. Not that bad as tournament player. He's just inconsistent in that sense.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. Either way, that's my point. A young, graceful, technically gifted English midfielder would be a steal at 40M in 2017's market, let alone 15M. Inflation has done it's work, and we simply won't be getting players for 10-15M anymore.
At Barca Neymar is the one cutting in, Messi plays centrally.
At Juve Higuain leads the line and Dybala plays centrally in a free role behind Higuain.
When Real plays 4-3-3 with Bale it's a hybrid formation where Ronaldo and Benzema are both central and Bale is often lost in space.
Only Bayern play this default "cut inside" 4-3-3.
My point is that it's all relative and dependent on multiple factors so yes, there is something in playing inverted forwards, but there's more to it then just cutting inside. Bale and Ribbery for example are not players who can consistently beat a man cutting in, but Neymar and Robben are probably the best out there at doing that.
Definitely not a meltdown, most seem to think it's just to drive the price up for us. Mostly they're indifferent. Some rate him, some say he's mediocre.
Sack Mourinho, sell Perisic.
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