The Striker Situation & Addressing the Goal Scoring issue this Summer

Baby Faced Assassin

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Let's begin with the ideal scenario that we were all in for had two major things not happened:
  1. Zlatan's Injury
  2. Atleti's Transfer Ban
United would renew Zlatan's contract for another season (assuming he would accept) & complete the signing of Griezmann from Atleti. It's safe to say we were all looking forward to adding Griezmann to an attack that already included Zlatan, Rashford & Martial and not as a replacement.

Zlatan, Rashford, Martial & Griezmann would've given the perfect balance to United in attack, in terms of youth & experience but also in terms of pace, physical presence & technical ability. This one hoped would address United's biggest issue from last season, the lack of goals! And with United hoping to be involved in the League, UCL, EFL & FAC; there would be plenty of playing time for all 4.

Fast forward to the present day, Zlatan got an unfortunate long-term injury which ruled him out till January & the latest reports claim United will not be renewing his contract, which is understandable. On the other hand Atleti's transfer ban also got upheld & the admirable sense of loyalty in Griezmann made him end any possibility of a transfer to United this summer.

So now as it stands, United went from a possible attack of Zlatan, Rashford, Martial & Griezmann to just Rashford & Martial and the balance is broken. These are two very talented young forwards but lack experience & consistency of handling the pressure of leading the line for an entire season for the club of the stature & expectation of United!

Now the public perception the club have given us is that they are interested in signing a no.9 who would replace Zlatan, which is fair. The candidates shortlisted are either Morata of Belotti, both players with superb potential but with a definite element of risk, when it comes to their actual ability given the price United are expected to pay for them & their adaptability to the Premier League. In those terms, signing someone like Lukaku (likely to go to Chelsea) is less risky because he is proven to deliver goals domestically, the risk with him is his big game performance & how he would do in Europe. Someone like Kane would be the perfect signing but it is impossible that Spurs would sell him to a club in England.

After this we step into the territory of the unknown, the replacement of a player who was expected to be signed: Antoine Greizmann. Assuming United just sign a no.9, whoever that maybe, does that solve the problem the team faced last season? Where do the additional goals come from? Assuming the new no.9 does as well as Zlatan did last season & give the team 28 goals in all competitions, which is optimistic at best, that still doesn't solve the problem from last season, the lack of goals overall!

So one would assume, that signing another forward, most probably a no. 10 in the ilk of Griezmann, is necessary over & above the no.9 that the club have indicated that they are currently looking for. If we delve into the options in the current market, the only big name that crops up is: James Rodrigez. But the problem with James is, he has a massive price, as Real can't be seen taking a massive L on a transfer, especially ahead of presidential elections. Another issue is, can United sign two players out of Madrid, without letting go of De Gea or getting ripped off? Unlikely.

Lastly, assuming United do end up getting Morata & James out of Real at a respectable fee, that is still a massive downgrade from what the expected scenario of Zlatan & Greizmann was supposed to be. These two players come with massive doubts on their adaptability to the PL & have never been proven established stars in any other league.

One thing I forgot to address, in United's striker situation is: Wayne Rooney. Which is kind of perfect to show how irrelevant him staying or leaving at the club is. He has one year left on his contract, surely the club would sell him if the opportunity presents himself, his contribution to the club last season was negligible given how much the club pays him in wages and what you would expect from a player with such high wages. So given that he would also leave, that would leave the club with lot of room to offer new signings in wages but a lack of actual options to pick from.

I think how United addresses this whole striker situation, will make of break Jose's second season. If he does not buy a guaranteed amount of goals this summer, it would be logical to expect the club to struggle again, especially in the league. What cost Van Gaal his job was depending on Rooney on for all his goals & not signing proven strike replacements after off-loading RvP & Chicha.

If you go back to Sir Alex's time, he always had plenty options when it came to forwards, whether it was Cole, Yorke, Sheringham & Ole or Rooney, Ronaldo, Ruud & Saha or Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez & Berba or Rooney, RvP, Welbeck & Chicha in his final years. And that reflects in the statistics, if you compare the goals scored by the club in the seasons under Fergie & the 4 years since there is a vast contrast & that I believe is the major issue of the post-Fergie era: GOALS!

Something Jose will be wise to address definitely this summer.

PS: Apologies if this thread overlaps discussions in other threads.
 
Buy Morata / Belotti / whoever


Plus...
Take Diego Costa on a six month loan
In January, Costa goes to AM and Griezeman comes to us
 
I think that we've got 2 problems

a- we lack top quality finishers
b- we lack midfielders who can score the goals

a- For the first part we need 2 strikers. We cant afford ending yet another year relying only on 1 striker. I'd go for a top signing (Morata or Belotti) and a decent/relatively cheap cover (Chica? Vardy? Lacazette?)

b-Id get rid of the rubbish (Young, Lingard, etc) and sign wingers that can score goals. People like Bernardeschi, Berardi, Salah or Insigne
 
We need better players, but also a braver mentality. Parking the bus from the first minute will never get you playing attacking, fluent football.

Closing out a game is fine but you can't go to away matches with the mentality of nicking a draw.

Maybe Jose doesn't trust his players he has right now, but eventually we need to let the fullbacks fly forward and make overlapping runs. We need to keep more width especially.

Yes having a clinical striker will help, but we didn't really pull teams apart. Lots of the chances we made were knock downs or rebounds.
 
devilish said:
I think that we've got 2 problems

a- we lack top quality finishers
b- we lack midfielders who can score the goals

a- For the first part we need 2 strikers. We cant afford ending yet another year relying only on 1 striker. I'd go for a top signing (Morata or Belotti) and a decent/relatively cheap cover (Chica? Vardy? Lacazette?)

b-Id get rid of the rubbish (Young, Lingard, etc) and sign wingers that can score goals. People like Bernardeschi, Berardi, Salah or Insigne
Click to expand...

Actually I think the opposite, in the wings we've Martial, Mkhi, Mata and Lingard who are all capable of scoring more than 7-8 goals per season(Mata and Martial more than others).

I'm just worried about our striker(Not counting Rooney).
 
devilish said:
I think that we've got 2 problems

a- we lack top quality finishers
b- we lack midfielders who can score the goals

a- For the first part we need 2 strikers. We cant afford ending yet another year relying only on 1 striker. I'd go for a top signing (Morata or Belotti) and a decent/relatively cheap cover (Chica? Vardy? Lacazette?)

b-Id get rid of the rubbish (Young, Lingard, etc) and sign wingers that can score goals. People like Bernardeschi, Berardi, Salah or Insigne
Click to expand...


Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini are all pretty good goal scorers. Lingard is a very useful squad player and removing him right now should not be a priority.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Buy Morata / Belotti / whoever


Plus...
Take Diego Costa on a six month loan
In January, Costa goes to AM and Griezeman comes to us
Click to expand...

Wish it was this simple. Easier said than done.

devilish said:
I think that we've got 2 problems

a- we lack top quality finishers
b- we lack midfielders who can score the goals

a- For the first part we need 2 strikers. We cant afford ending yet another year relying only on 1 striker. I'd go for a top signing (Morata or Belotti) and a decent/relatively cheap cover (Chica? Vardy? Lacazette?)

b-Id get rid of the rubbish (Young, Lingard, etc) and sign wingers that can score goals. People like Bernardeschi, Berardi, Salah or Insigne
Click to expand...

Signing two no.9's (ie Morata & Chicha) would severely damper Rashford's progress.

Adam-Utd said:
We need better players, but also a braver mentality. Parking the bus from the first minute will never get you playing attacking, fluent football.

Closing out a game is fine but you can't go to away matches with the mentality of nicking a draw.

Maybe Jose doesn't trust his players he has right now, but eventually we need to let the fullbacks fly forward and make overlapping runs. We need to keep more width especially.

Yes having a clinical striker will help, but we didn't really pull teams apart. Lots of the chances we made were knock downs or rebounds.
Click to expand...

But the main reason United did so badly in the league wasn't because of parking the bus from the first minute but because smaller clubs came to Old Trafford & parked the bus from the first minute & despite United creating multiple chances in most of those games the lack of clinical finishing cost us plenty vital points.
 
KM said:
Actually I think the opposite, in the wings we've Martial, Mkhi, Mata and Lingard who are all capable of scoring more than 7-8 goals per season(Mata and Martial more than others).

I'm just worried about our striker(Not counting Rooney).
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7-8 goals are nothing compared to the goals people like Salah or Insigne would score. Mkhitaryan and Mata would of course remain as competition. Also, I think we should consider playing an SS in no 10 instead of a midfielder. Rashford and Martial may not be natural finishers but if we put them behind the main striker then goals will flow
 
shamans said:
Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini are all pretty good goal scorers. Lingard is a very useful squad player and removing him right now should not be a priority.
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I love Pogba but he was never a natural scorer. We can't rely on the same person scoring all the goals like we did last season. It makes us very predictable and reliant on 1 person to score all the goals.

Also we need to assess our aims. Lingard is good for a club fighting for a CL spot. Fellaini is good for the likes of Everton and Stoke. If we aim for higher goals then we need better players
 
Baby Faced Assassin said:
Signing two no.9's (ie Morata & Chicha) would severely damper Rashford's progress.
Click to expand...

I don't think so TBH. Id love to see Martial/Rashford play behind the main striker in the way Alli does. They might not be able to lead the line just yet but given more space as no 10 they can score more goals
 
devilish said:
I love Pogba but he was never a natural scorer. We can't rely on the same person scoring all the goals like we did last season. It makes us very predictable and reliant on 1 person to score all the goals.

Also we need to assess our aims. Lingard is good for a club fighting for a CL spot. Fellaini is good for the likes of Everton and Stoke. If we aim for higher goals then we need better players
Click to expand...

Let's buy the newer players first before replacing older ones and shipping them out. Pogba has been returning 10 goals a season for the past four years.

BTW, at the very least Fellaini has proven that he's good enough for a Europa league winning side. not sure if you think Everton and Stoke are of that caliber.
 
We need creators and goal scorers. It seems we're after Perisic, so I'd suggest we buy a striker (Bellotti or Morata seem likely, but I'd have liked us to show interest in Aubamayang too) and then I think we'd either Need a right winger, or another creative forward. James would work, but so would someone like Mahrez.
 
devilish said:
I don't think so TBH. Id love to see Martial/Rashford play behind the main striker in the way Alli does. They might not be able to lead the line just yet but given more space as no 10 they can score more goals
Click to expand...

I disagree, especially in Rashford's case. He has proven he's a no.9. The only reason he cannot be the primary no.9 is his age & inconsistency. Also a club with the budget of United cannot be over reliant on a 19 year old striker.
 
shamans said:
Let's buy the newer players first before replacing older ones and shipping them out. Pogba has been returning 10 goals a season for the past four years.

BTW, at the very least Fellaini has proven that he's good enough for a Europa league winning side. not sure if you think Everton and Stoke are of that caliber.
Click to expand...


Beating Ajax youths is serious business indeed
 
Good thread. We essentially need to replace Ibra and Rooney. So we need someone who can be an effective No.9 as well as someone who could play as a second striker or #10 role. That will allow Mikhitaryan or Mata to play on RW or Martial + new winger to play on LW.

I think Morata (or any relatively young striker with potential) will do since we also have Rashford who is more than an able deputy in the striker position. If his development continues, we would not need to depend that heavily on our first striker as we had to rely on Ibra for goals.

Personally, I wouldn't mind buying Griezmann in the winter transfer window too if that's an option. I can't see anybody else being as good as him and the cost of missing out for half a season is not that big compared to the long-term benefit of having him. But that too depends on whether Athletico are able to get a replacement for him in the winter transfer window, which is unlikely. If Griezmann is not an option, then I don't know what we will do.:(
 
Baby Faced Assassin said:
I disagree, especially in Rashford's case. He has proven he's a no.9. The only reason he cannot be the primary no.9 is his age & inconsistency. Also a club with the budget of United cannot be over reliant on a 19 year old striker.
Click to expand...

That is why we add 2 strikers (one of whom is relatively experienced) and play Rashford/Martial as SS. By the time Vardy or Chica retired, Rashford can take the no 9 role
 
I just hope this window is not the repeat of LVG's second season where he got rid of all our strike power and didn't bring anybody effective as a replacement. Even if Ibra has to go, we definitely need two players.
 
We don't really know what's going on behind closed doors but I can't help but feel frustrated we're not being linked with Aubameyang - he would be the best of the bunch.

Never know it may happen.
 
Even getting Griezmann wouldn't have solved our problem we should have gone for one more striker.Our issue in front of goal is plenty and we need to sign least 2 striker, Morata and one more.
 
We'll sign a striker and a winger. Both Mata and Micki are more than good enough to play 10 for us. I think we will sign players for what they bring to the shape of the team more than what they can individually contribute
 
A striker that can score goals, while I think Morata is a more rounded player than Belotti, but I'd rather we buy the latter because he's more of a goal scorer.
Also, the winger we buy needs to chip in with goals, we also need Mikhi to improve a lot and show up with the numbers.
Another important thing would be to buy the right holding player who along with Herrera provides a solid spine to our lineup and allow Pogba to focus on the attacking side of things.
As for the rotation players, I think Rashford, Martial will do a lot better with reduced pressure on them.
 
CG1010 said:
Good thread. We essentially need to replace Ibra and Rooney. So we need someone who can be an effective No.9 as well as someone who could play as a second striker or #10 role. That will allow Mikhitaryan or Mata to play on RW or Martial + new winger to play on LW.

I think Morata (or any relatively young striker with potential) will do since we also have Rashford who is more than an able deputy in the striker position. If his development continues, we would not need to depend that heavily on our first striker as we had to rely on Ibra for goals.

Personally, I wouldn't mind buying Griezmann in the winter transfer window too if that's an option. I can't see anybody else being as good as him and the cost of missing out for half a season is not that big compared to the long-term benefit of having him. But that too depends on whether Athletico are able to get a replacement for him in the winter transfer window, which is unlikely. If Griezmann is not an option, then I don't know what we will do.:(
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Thanks!

I think realistically Greizmann can be signed next summer by then it could already be too late for Jose. With Zlatan & Greizmann were part of the squad for next season it was fairly straightforward, but with both out of the equation & other targets not very easily gettable this summer has become rather complicated for the club.

CG1010 said:
I just hope this window is not the repeat of LVG's second season where he got rid of all our strike power and didn't bring anybody effective as a replacement. Even if Ibra has to go, we definitely need two players.
Click to expand...

I fear the same! LvG bet everything on Rooney being his main striker & was let down. I would say its his own fault. Fergie never exposed himself to being over-reliant on any one striker & the internal competition served him very well.
 
A key point that has been overlooked is any anticipated improvement from existing players. This is what happens when football analysis becomes so statistical and formulaic. The chances are that we would score more goals if we had the exact same attacking unit as last season again. Everyone has an obsession with signing young players who will 'sort x position for the next 10 years', however, it seems there is no patience for them to grow and develop.

Martial will likely get more goals than 4, he's obviously capable. If he gave us 3 times that from the left, which is very feasible, that's a great help. Then the likes of Rashford, Pogba and Mkhitaryan all also have scope to improve their output.

Of course, we need to strengthen in attack, and a new centre forward is a must, but we may be surprised that an entire attacking overhaul is not needed.
 
Rozay said:
A key point that has been overlooked is any anticipated improvement from existing players. This is what happens when football analysis becomes so statistical and formulaic. The chances are that we would score more goals if we had the exact same attacking unit as last season again. Everyone has an obsession with signing young players who will 'sort x position for the next 10 years', however, it seems there is no patience for them to grow and develop.

Martial will likely get more goals than 4, he's obviously capable. If he gave us 3 times that from the left, which is very feasible, that's a great help. Then the likes of Rashford, Pogba and Mkhitaryan all also have scope to improve their output.

Of course, we need to strengthen in attack, and a new centre forward is a must, but we may be surprised that an entire attacking overhaul is not needed.
Click to expand...

An overhaul is certainly not needed but re-strengthening most definitely is. With Zlatan & Rooney to be most likely gone & Griezmann out of the equation, even if the likes of Rashford & Martial improve drastically, would that be enough for United to finish in the top 3, let alone sustain a title challenge, given the talent in attack at other PL clubs?
 
we need Rooney out asap to free up budget

as far as who to bring in it sounds like Morata and Belotti could sting us 140/150 million

that's a massive outlay for two unknown quantities

i expect more from our scouting department - Gabriel Jesus cost city 30 and he looks like he will score plenty next season

A squad player at Madrid shouldn't cost anymore than 30-40 surely
 
buckooo1978 said:
A squad player at Madrid shouldn't cost anymore than 30-40 surely
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But he's only a squad player because he has Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo ahead of him. Most strikers would be squad players in that situation.
 
I've said all summer, but I'd be very happy to see Llorente brought in as a squad option. He has different qualities to our other forwards, can finish, hold the ball up and head it. Think he could get a good amount of goals here.

That said, I was mainly in favour of him before I thought we would sign a traditional 9. If we were to get an Mbappé, Griezmann etc as our main attacking signing, I'd be happy with Llorente to also come in in a sort of Hernandez role.
 
Rozay said:
I've said all summer, but I'd be very happy to see Llorente brought in as a squad option. He has different qualities to our other forwards, can finish, hold the ball up and head it. Think he could get a good amount of goals here.

That said, I was mainly in favour of him before I thought we would sign a traditional 9. If we were to get an Mbappé, Griezmann etc as our main attacking signing, I'd be happy with Llorente to also come in in a sort of Hernandez role.
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Surely United should aspire to more than players of the caliber of Llorente.

The real forward options that I feel would be United quality (probably all ungettable):
  • Mbappe
  • Aubameyang
  • Costa
  • Kane
All the rest fall in a level below these 4 & come with an element of risk:
  • Morata
  • Belotti
  • Lacazette
  • Lukaku
 
We have the the world's most expensive player currently playing holding mid. Maybe strengthening cm and letting him get up the pitch gives us the goals we need ?
 
Crashoutcassius said:
We have the the world's most expensive player currently playing holding mid. Maybe strengthening cm and letting him get up the pitch gives us the goals we need ?
Click to expand...

Goals scored by top6 teams in the PL last season:

Chelsea 85
Spurs 86
Man City 80
L'pool 78
Arsenal 77
Man Utd 54

United was the lowest scoring team in the top6 with gap of 23 goals to the next best side.

After already losing Ibra, you think just shifting Pogba to a more attacking position will make up that gap?
 
As much as we need a top striker who finishes well, the other attackers need to contribute more too. To score 80+ goals a season, you need atleast 3 guys who score 30 between them to supplement the main striker with the other players adding 20 between them.
 
Baby Faced Assassin said:
Goals scored by top6 teams in the PL last season:

Chelsea 85
Spurs 86
Man City 80
L'pool 78
Arsenal 77
Man Utd 54

United was the lowest scoring team in the top6 with gap of 23 goals to the next best side.

After already losing Ibra, you think just shifting Pogba to a more attacking position will make up that gap?
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Football isn't as straightforward as just buying players that scored goals. We scored one in most games and then parked the bus. I would say that had more to do with it than just names on a sheet.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Football isn't as straightforward as just buying players that scored goals. We scored one in most games and then parked the bus. I would say that had more to do with it than just names on a sheet.
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Firstly United played quite attacking at home to lesser teams but ended up with draws. Jose parked the bus mostly away to top 6 teams.

Goalscoring hasn't been an issue only last season, its a recurring issue from the last 4 seasons under 3 different managers.

So the problem is twofold, yes we have had managers that have been a bit negative but not having great goalscoring options at the club has also been a problem & guess what, only one of these problems can be addressed this summer.
 
Baby Faced Assassin said:
Surely United should aspire to more than players of the caliber of Llorente.

The real forward options that I feel would be United quality (probably all ungettable):
  • Mbappe
  • Aubameyang
  • Costa
  • Kane
All the rest fall in a level below these 4 & come with an element of risk:
  • Morata
  • Belotti
  • Lacazette
  • Lukaku
Click to expand...

Not for the role I am proposing he play. Mbappé, for instance, would be my first choice striker addition. However, as has been discussed many times in his thread, 'should we have 3 young strikers?', 'isn't he too similar to Rashford/Martial?'. My proposal was to ideally get him and Llorente to add experience and variation.

I still maintain this position if we had signed Griezmann or Bale or another forward of that kind of nature. Llorente could offer that variety. However, as I said, if we got a traditional 9 like Morata or Belotti, then we don't need to get a Llorente.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
United need more than just a 9 to solve the goal getting issues. They need up to 3 new attacking starters. Plus a long term Carrick replacement for big clashes. So for me we need a 9, 10, and a multipurpose winger at the very least. Maybe even a multi purpose fullback.
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Exactly. If we just look to replace Zlatan we will be in the same position as we were the season just gone.

We either need to take a gamble on Rashford and Martial massively stepping up or buy 2-3 new attackers that will guarantee goals.
 
Zlatan was unique and one of the best of his generation, when he went through a dry spell everyone bemoaned the fact that we were so reliant on him. A Morata doesn't have the genius of Zlatan but is a big piece of the puzzle for Mourinho to rebuild the attack.
 
Replacing Lingard would be a massive step in the right direction. The lad is rubbish and scored one league goal all season. His constant inclusion was a big problem for us when it came to lacking an attacking threat. Martial's poor season also contributed to that of course, but Lingard is the worst of the bunch. Replace him with a pacey and clinical winger and we'd improve significantly (provided we bring in a good #9 too of course)
 
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