The "Zlatan hinders our gameplay" brigade

Striker10

"Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
18,857
We had the some people saying the same about Fellaini. Even though he's only featured as a sum, you don't rely on some players for quick counter attacking. Zlatan isn't that slow. He scored a breakaway goal for us last season and looked pretty quick. I think with Matic then it helps everyone Pogba bursting forward. Also Martial was a shadow of himself last season. An inform Martial and Rashford would do wonders but we still lack from out wide.

We have pretty good defenders from out wide but none have 'known' how to cross since Cameron Borthwick-Jackson - who put in some great balls. Mitchell could do a similar job and we've yet to see Pereira so we can be positive about everything ;)
 

Shark

@NotShark
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
26,634
Location
Ireland
MeUnited said:
I mean, you don't have an argument so just call it rubbish. Under LVG, we created barely any chances. Yesterday specifically, we created barely any chances (for the first 80 minutes). I'll list the chances I can remember, maybe you can remind me of some I forgot, Jones header (set play), goal we scored (set play), Rashford put through by Swansea defender. That's it. Yesterday was the type of game where Zlatan > Lukaku for me. Much more adept at using the ball in tight areas and moving it quickly to give us chances, whether he could finish them or not is a different question. Thankfully yesterday we scored a set piece so Swansea had to come at us, otherwise that game could easily have been another draw as we didn't look like scoring before that.
Click to expand...
So just because our best chances came from set play's, they aren't as relevant? Under LVG, our set pieces were diabolical. Our defenders circulated the ball around the back for 5 minutes, and none of our players even dared have a pop at goal from distance. It was awful awful defeatist stuff. The fact is, we did score before half time, because we now have not only superior delivery, but a player like Pogba to provide a thundering header. Bringing LVG's football up in comparison to how we went about things yesterday, is simply daft. There were also plenty of games last season where Ibra would be quiet. Bourmouth at home last season which ended 1-1, in which he missed a penalty and was generally poor in possession is a prime example. In Lukaku, we have a striker that has one job, and that job is to put the ball in the net. He did that again yesterday to kill the game.
 

Lentwood

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
6,940
Location
West Didsbury, Manchester
It makes sense to bring Zlatan back but I do think his weaknesses last year greatly hindered our attacking play.

Zlatan alongside Lukaku in tight games where we need a goal would be fantastic though and I think they would complement each other very well
 

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,668
Location
South Carolina
Lentwood said:
Zlatan alongside Lukaku in tight games where we need a goal would be fantastic though and I think they would complement each other very well
Click to expand...
Yes, I'd love to see him brought back in as cover for Lukaku and as a plan B option to bring on when we need a goal.

Imagine how defenses would feel if they know that even if they can keep Lukaku, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Mkhi, Mata out of the net for 60-70 minutes that we've got Zlatan waiting on the bench.
 

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,668
Location
South Carolina
MeUnited said:
We were crap in the same way we were crap under LVG. You can't think we played well? I can't think of any clear chance from open play other than a Swansea defender putting Rashford through. We created loads more chances against Stoke, Burnley and Bournemouth at home and we drew all those games. Lukaku has been a lot more clinical than Zlatan but in terms of helping the overall chance creation of the team, Lukaku won't be as good at that. Last season we would have 10-15 good chances to score and we didn't, yesterday we won 4-0 from 5 or 6 clear chances.
Click to expand...
We scored as many goals in that game as we had shots on target in a fortnight sometimes under LvG.

Also, the objective is to put the ball in the goal, not to make chances that don't get finished. And besides that, we had 17 shots and 8 shots on target against Swansea yesterday.
 

whatwha

Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
7,612
Location
Norway
I really hope Jose isn't planning to rely on Zlatan again from January.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,239
Location
Canada
Feck hindrance , get him. 28 goals and he could have had 35 plus if not for his injury. If he wants to come , just sign him up and send him on a high by winning the league.
 

Zlaatan

Parody Account
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,800
Location
Sweden
Rado_N said:
Some people are gonna be gutted when he rejoins us.
Click to expand...
People are still gutted he joined us in the first place, and it looks like they will continue to be gutted no matter if he rejoins us or not. Just take a look at when Lukaku scores, every time you've had someone say "Zlatan would never have scored that" which I don't really know how to respond to since it's such a stupid thing to say.

But people either love him or hate him. He doesn't leave much room for any grey area, both on and off the field. I don't think he played particularly great last season, but considering how the rest of the team was playing I think it's preposterous to lay all the blame on him. Blaming a teams performance over a whole season on one player is just blatantly ignorant no matter how you look at it.
 

Mani

Full Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
7,665
We already found our replacement for Zaltan, who would also slow down our attack.There is no point in bringing him back with those high wages.
 

Dobbs

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
4,696
AlecHDR said:
Yes. Our top scorer last season was the big problem.
Click to expand...
Centre forward was the top scorer. Who'd have thought it?

In other surprising news De Gea made more saves than anyone and Bailly made more tackles Martial.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic(actually I do a bit) but your point, repeated often by many, is borderline meaningless.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,181
Might be simplifying it a bit. I think long-term the younger Lukaku is probably going to be a better option than Zlatan, but the addition of Matic has been massive for us, while we're seeing the likes of Pogba performing at a level higher than last season so far too.

And while we've been superb so far, winning both games in style, we did make a very good start last season. Even if not to the same extent. There's no guarantee we're not going through a fantastic patch in form and that we won't regress in a while - albeit I'm hoping that's not the case and think we'll contend for the title this season.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,181
Zlaatan said:
People are still gutted he joined us in the first place, and it looks like they will continue to be gutted no matter if he rejoins us or not. Just take a look at when Lukaku scores, every time you've had someone say "Zlatan would never have scored that" which I don't really know how to respond to since it's such a stupid thing to say.

But people either love him or hate him. He doesn't leave much room for any grey area, both on and off the field. I don't think he played particularly great last season, but considering how the rest of the team was playing I think it's preposterous to lay all the blame on him. Blaming a teams performance over a whole season on one player is just blatantly ignorant no matter how you look at it.
Click to expand...
Ultimately got goals for us as well - I can understand some of the complaints, and for a while after his initial good start he genuinely was quite underwhelming until he found form again, but it's a bit ridiculous to put him at fault for our lack of goals when he was our top scorer. Players in other positions failing to chip in with many was our main problem.
 

AlecHDR

Angry, incoherent heterosexual slob
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,300
Dobbs said:
Centre forward was the top scorer. Who'd have thought it?

In other surprising news De Gea made more saves than anyone and Bailly made more tackles Martial.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic(actually I do a bit) but your point, repeated often by many, is borderline meaningless.
Click to expand...
You're being obtuse on purpose but I'll entertain you. Yes the CF should score most but that doesn't mean he should be scoring 5 times as much as the likes of Rashford, who constantly squandered chances.

We've just scored 8 goals in two matches. Not because our CF scored 8, but because other players in offensive positions are chipping in.

It is consistent with the overall theme of football professors on here complicating football more than it needs to be complicated.

'The people around Ibra didn't score enough but that is because he, the top scorer and the person who constantly bailed us out, is not pacey.'

No, the other players in offensive positions were not good enough. Pinning the blame on Zlatan for that is just a silly excuse.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,181
Dobbs said:
Centre forward was the top scorer. Who'd have thought it?

In other surprising news De Gea made more saves than anyone and Bailly made more tackles Martial.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic(actually I do a bit) but your point, repeated often by many, is borderline meaningless.
Click to expand...
I'd understand this complaint if Zlatan had come out with a poor total like, say, 12 goals in 38 games, and just happened to edge it out as our top scorer because no one else was prolific. In the end, he finished up with 17 in 28 in the league last season; that's a genuinely good tally, and not one that I think we can be particularly critical of.

We've won titles in the past with top scorers finishing on similar tallies - certain complaints regarding Zlatan I can understand, but criticising his scoring record is silly.
 

All 3 United

His tinfoil hat protects him from the Glazers.
Joined
Jun 25, 2001
Messages
5,845
Location
Manchester
I don't want him back. On top of the fact he'll demand a huge salary and want to be first choice, coming back from a huge injury at 36, he quite simply missed too many, I seem to recall that in each of the home draws he missed at least one sitter, which proved to be very costly. He also always wanted to score an exuberant goal, rather than just heading it in, he'd try a scissor kick and usually miss. He even dismissed an easy chance to score so he could get his revenge in the Bournemouth home game and later received a ban for this. We drew that game 1-1.

That said he single handily won us the league cup final.
 

BULB

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 6, 2017
Messages
163
ghagua said:
but the other players were in awe of him, and had to get the ball to him no matter what other attacking options were available. They can treat Lukaku just like any other player and get on with the attack with the best option available.
Click to expand...
The other players weren't in awe of him.
Half the problem was Jose and the media would make out this guy to be the next best after Messi and Ronaldo.
Most of the team would get strips torn off them then Zlatan would be praised as some supernatural power by Jose.
The players would look at him and think he's not that f'ing good, look at all the f'ing chances he misses, look how f'ing slow he is, look how crap his free kicks are.
Then you have his, I would say NEGATIVE presence in the dressing room. A guy that walks around like he is king, the whole persona is sickening, look at me look at me I am the lion, but can't back it up on the field.
Then the players learn he is on 350k a week PLUS 120k a goal. They are like wtf??
How is this positive?
 

ike

Full Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
288
Location
vi
Yeah leading goal scorer by quite some distance has a negative presence in the dressing room.
sure thing. :rolleyes:

it'd be one thing if we were talking about Diego Costa but have you read any of the interviews with the younger players?
 

Dobbs

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
4,696
AlecHDR said:
You're being obtuse on purpose but I'll entertain you. Yes the CF should score most but that doesn't mean he should be scoring 5 times as much as the likes of Rashford, who constantly squandered chances.

We've just scored 8 goals in two matches. Not because our CF scored 8, but because other players in offensive positions are chipping in.

It is consistent with the overall theme of football professors on here complicating football more than it needs to be complicated.

'The people around Ibra didn't score enough but that is because he, the top scorer and the person who constantly bailed us out, is not pacey.'

No, the other players in offensive positions were not good enough. Pinning the blame on Zlatan for that is just a silly excuse.
Click to expand...
Genuinely not being obtuse and i agree with some of the above points. However Zlatan did what nearly every other No.9 does, he scored the most goals. That alone does not exempt him from criticism. Just posting that he was the top scorer is almost meaningless. Who else could it or should it have been?

Again though I feel like the thread title has been misread. It doesn't say "Zlatan was the ONLY reason the team played slowly and disjointed.
 

Zlaatan

Parody Account
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,800
Location
Sweden
BULB said:
The other players weren't in awe of him.
Half the problem was Jose and the media would make out this guy to be the next best after Messi and Ronaldo.
Most of the team would get strips torn off them then Zlatan would be praised as some supernatural power by Jose.
The players would look at him and think he's not that f'ing good, look at all the f'ing chances he misses, look how f'ing slow he is, look how crap his free kicks are.
Then you have his, I would say NEGATIVE presence in the dressing room. A guy that walks around like he is king, the whole persona is sickening, look at me look at me I am the lion, but can't back it up on the field.
Then the players learn he is on 350k a week PLUS 120k a goal. They are like wtf??
How is this positive?
Click to expand...
How is this anything? All you've done is imply a bunch of things which you can't possibly know are true so that it suits your agenda.
Much of it is also directly contradicted by what those very same people have said themselves.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,775
Location
Hollywood CA
BULB said:
The other players weren't in awe of him.
Half the problem was Jose and the media would make out this guy to be the next best after Messi and Ronaldo.
Most of the team would get strips torn off them then Zlatan would be praised as some supernatural power by Jose.
The players would look at him and think he's not that f'ing good, look at all the f'ing chances he misses, look how f'ing slow he is, look how crap his free kicks are.
Then you have his, I would say NEGATIVE presence in the dressing room. A guy that walks around like he is king, the whole persona is sickening, look at me look at me I am the lion, but can't back it up on the field.
Then the players learn he is on 350k a week PLUS 120k a goal. They are like wtf??
How is this positive?
Click to expand...
Fake News
 

Dobbs

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
4,696
Cheesy said:
I'd understand this complaint if Zlatan had come out with a poor total like, say, 12 goals in 38 games, and just happened to edge it out as our top scorer because no one else was prolific. In the end, he finished up with 17 in 28 in the league last season; that's a genuinely good tally, and not one that I think we can be particularly critical of.

We've won titles in the past with top scorers finishing on similar tallies - certain complaints regarding Zlatan I can understand, but criticising his scoring record is silly.
Click to expand...
Reading my post again and tell me what my complaint was. Cos I can't see one.

My comment was about the posters logic not Zlatans performance.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,508
Zlatan isn't to blame for the likes of Mkhi, Rashford and Lingard being incredibly unproductive last year in the league.
 

VeevaVee

The worst "V"
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
46,266
Location
Manchester
There's more to it than this or that. Zlatan would've fit really well into Fergie's RVP or RVN teams and we wouldn't be having this convo. He obviously did a lot of good for us last season but we also suffered in some ways for him too.
 

sugar_kane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
3,568
We have two out and out strikers at the moment, three if you include Martial. Getting back Zlatan gives us a lot more depth in this position, I just hope Jose doesn't give him an automatic starting place.

Zlatan's all round play was massively underrated last season, I just don't think we look anywhere near as threatening without the pace of Lukaku.

That said, it's probably a good thing that Lukaku has the competition and will also be good for the dressing room mentality to have Zlatan around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.