Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Cal?]

I think the Argentina are average debate is over stated and just stupid. Look at the talent they have in their team. No excuse for not winning or competing for all national honours.

It’s amazing, when Argentina do well, making finals, somehow Messi singlehandedly dragged them there, despite the fact they defended their way to the last WC final and the defenders did a lot more than Messi who did f-all in the knockout stages.

However whenever they do badly, almost failing to qualify despite having so many places at Conmebol, somehow Messi is blameless.

 

[IFC 1905]

You only say that as an Argentinian yourself (I assume from your location). Both has pressure from the fans and I'm sure both put pressure on themselves as professionals.

Of course but everyone sees Portugal as a normal, average NT and if Ronaldo can't do it, well he can't do it all. With Messi is exactly the opposite. I don't think t that there are "Anti-Ronaldo" fans out there, but here in Argentina there's easly a 40% of our own people who expect Messi to literally dribble 5 guys and score "as he does in BCN" every week.


And I won't talk about the press...which is by far the worst thing in this country.

 

[IFC 1905]

I think the Argentina are average debate is over stated and just stupid. Look at the talent they have in their team. No excuse for not winning or competing for all national honours.

What talent? Please, explain me.


BTW, over the last year, the only player who scored for Argentina is Messi..

an incredible data for a team with such talent.

 

[Zlaatan]

Argentina are regulars in the latter stages of WC before Messi came along.

Portugal only occasionally qualify for the WC before Ronaldo, and now they qualify every time.

What has the past performances of the NT got to do with anything? It was an entirely different time, different players and even different qualifying rules.
It's not easier for Argentina to qualify today just because they've done it several times in the past, just like the opposite is true for Portugal.

 

[MrMarcello]

Argentina an average side

What I'd give to have a Di Maria, a Banega, a Mascherano, a Dybala in the US side.

 

[Cal?]

What has the past performances of the NT got to do with anything? It was an entirely different time, different players and even different qualifying rules.
It's not easier for Argentina to qualify today just because they've done it several times in the past, just like the opposite is true for Portugal.

Like it or not, with some exceptions like Hungary, it’s always been the same national teams who are at/near the top of the game since the beginning of time.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Argentina an average side

What I'd give to have a Di Maria, a Banega, a Mascherano, a Dybala in the US side.

Aguero, Icardi, Pastore, Higuain.

Average my arse. If they pull their finger out they could actually win the bloody WC.

 

[Cal?]

Argentina an average side

What I'd give to have a Di Maria, a Banega, a Mascherano, a Dybala in the US side.

What every national team but Argentina to have Dybala.

 

[Cal?]

Aguero, Icardi, Pastore, Higuain.

Average my arse. If they pull their finger out they could actually win the bloody WC.

They should be one of the favs for the WC based on their personnel

 

[IFC 1905]

Aguero, Icardi, Pastore, Higuain.

Average my arse. If they pull their finger out they could actually win the bloody WC.

But.....do you watch argentina play?

Aguero? Pastore? Higuain



They are HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE with argentina, mate. Di Maria? We all hate him here.

Argentina an average side

What I'd give to have a Di Maria, a Banega, a Mascherano, a Dybala in the US side.

Sorry but FIFA don't allow players to change NT after their first official game. Otherwise I'd be more than happy to give you Banega (who went to a party after we tied v Peru), Di Maria who is always injured when it matters, or does 99/100 times the wrong play.


Mascherano is OK. Dybala has proved nothing yet.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But.....do you watch argentina play?

Aguero? Pastore? Higuain



They are HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE with argentina, mate. Di Maria? We all hate him here.

Smilie overuse alert.

95% of national teams would love that talent pool.
Di Maria btw was your second best player last night.

You seem a little bit like Madrid fans with your attitudes to your players, trying being an England fan for a few years and see how you feel.

If the rest all suddenly happen to be shit when they wear the blue and white, maybe something in your management and tactics needs to change; as make no mistake, these are top class players.

 

[Moonred]

Good players performing like average players is a bit different from having average players.

 

[MrMarcello]

Sorry but FIFA don't allow players to change NT after their first official game. Otherwise I'd be more than happy to give you Banega (who went to a party after we tied v Peru), Di Maria who is always injured when it matters, or does 99/100 times the wrong play.

Mascherano is OK. Dybala has proved nothing yet.

Argentina is filled with a couple handfuls of world class players that haven't performed to their level. Buy a clue.

 

[IFC 1905]

Smilie overuse alert.

95% of national teams would love that talent pool.
Di Maria btw was your second best player last night.

You seem a little bit like Madrid fans with your attitudes to your players, trying being an England fan for a few years and see how you feel.

If the rest all suddenly happen to be shit when they wear the blue and white, maybe something in your management and tactics needs to change; as make no mistake, these are top class players.

You can have the best prospects in the world but they failed time, after time, after time. Aguero ,Higuain and Di Maria are 3 guys people are tired of. We don't want to see them anymore with Argentina. We don't care if they score 100 goals a season. We still have to watch Di Maria.

It's just you obviously don't watch the games, just the results. And you imagine these guys collaborate, but no. We're literally Messi and 10 more guys. Literally.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They are an average side. Dysfunctional is probably a better word. They have some very good attacking talent but as a team they're quite poor. Obviously relative to Us they're wonderful but then most teams are.

Their record in qualifying without Messi was what, 8 or 9 games, and 7 points? Horrible stuff.

 

[IFC 1905]

Good players performing like average players is a bit different from having average players.

Average players can perform well enough to win, for example, an Euro, like Portugal did without Ronaldo.

Argentina has "world class" players who have never been up to their reputation. Never.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's just you obviously don't watch the games, just the results. And you imagine these guys collaborate, but no. We're literally Messi and 10 more guys. Literally.

Maybe there’s your problem.

You must surely realize there must be a correlation between these players being World Stars in their club and “average” for the national team?

 

[MrMarcello]

They are an average side. Dysfunctional is probably a better word. They have some very good attacking talent but as a team they're quite poor. Obviously relative to Us they're wonderful but then most teams are.

Their record in qualifying without Messi was what, 8 or 9 games, and 7 points? Horrible stuff.

Which doesn't correlate to to the players being average. They have a steady supply of world class talents but don't seemingly play as a team.

Massive difference.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Smilie overuse alert.

95% of national teams would love that talent pool.
Di Maria btw was your second best player last night.

You seem a little bit like Madrid fans with your attitudes to your players, trying being an England fan for a few years and see how you feel.

If the rest all suddenly happen to be shit when they wear the blue and white, maybe something in your management and tactics needs to change; as make no mistake, these are top class players.

Talent pool means nothing if the players play terribly. Maybe it does have to do with tactics or management but Argentina fans see these players playing terribly year in year out so call them out for it? There's nothing Madrid like about that at all. They see a player playing average for their team and call him that. You might prefer to focus on their City or Napoli form because that's where you see them most but they don't.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Which doesn't correlate to to the players being average. They have a steady supply of world class talents but don't seemingly play as a team.

Massive difference.

For the national team they're average which is what is relevant. Obviously noone is calling Aguero average in general. Pretty obvious this is all in relation to the NT.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Talent pool means nothing if the players play terribly. Maybe it does have to do with tactics or management but Argentina fans see these players playing terribly year in year out so call them out for it? There's nothing Madrid like about that at all. They see a player playing average for their team and call him that. You might prefer to focus on their City or Napoli form because that's where you see them most but they don't.

Aguero is their 5th highest all time scorer, Higuain comes in at 6.

Yes, it’s Madrid-esque.

 

[IFC 1905]

Maybe there’s your problem.

You must surely realize there must be a correlation between these players being World Stars in their club and “average” for the national team?

Aguero never could replicate what he did at club level, on the national team. Higuain and Di Maria had decent periods, specially during the 2014 WCQ. But since the 2014 WC, their performances have been more than terrible.

 

[Zlaatan]

Like it or not, with some exceptions like Hungary, it’s always been the same national teams who are at/near the top of the game since the beginning of time.

That still doesn't address my point. For example Spain were terrible for decades before becoming favorites and also winning three tournaments in a row between 2008-2012, but that doesn't mean that it will be easier for them to win again in 20 years time with an entirely different team.

Just because the Figo generation choked a lot of the time despite all the talent doesn't mean that the current team has a more difficult time winning games.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Aguero is their 5th highest all time scorer, Higuain comes in at 6.

Yes, it’s Madrid-esque.

Aguero and Higuain are poor when it matters. Madrid fans boo Ronaldo. It's nothing alike.

Anyways I just realized which thread it is and how little has to do with this discussion. Off to another one.

 

[KirkDuyt]

While Argentina is by no means average, they're not as good as some want to believe. Yes they have Messi, Dybala, Di Maria, Aguero, Higuain and Pastore, just a tiny thing they all have in common, they're attackers. What else do they have, Mascherano is about 75 now and then there's Marcos Rojo who is painfully average and in goal they have Romero who is, with all due respect (which is quite little) a clown.
The early 2000's Portugal were also much better than they are now. I still have no idea how they managed to win the Euro's last year. They were the worst winners since Greece and I'm not even sure which team was worse.

For the sake of this bottomless pit of a topic; Messi is an infinitely better football player than Ronaldo.

carry on.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

While Argentina is by no means average, they're not as good as some want to believe. Yes they have Messi, Dybala, Di Maria, Aguero, Higuain and Pastore, just a tiny thing they all have in common, they're attackers. What else do they have, Mascherano is about 75 now and then there's Marcos Rojo who is painfully average.
The early 2000's Portugal were also much better than they are now. I still have no idea how they managed to win the Euro's last year. They were the worst winners since Greece and I'm not even sure which team was worse.

For the sake of this bottomless pit of a topic; Messi is an infinitely better football player than Ronaldo.

carry on.

Can a few of you just remind me how this “average” Argentina team have done in the last two big competitions they were in? A team full of players who never perform for them and that the fans hate.

@amolbhatia50k @IFC 1905

Spoiled Madrid-esque fans

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Winning the euros was an amazing accomplishment to an already amazing career but Ronaldo wasn't even Portugal's best player and didn't even play the final. He wasn't even Portugal's best forward!

In fact Ronaldo's best international tournaments individually were quite some time ago. He has yet to even reach the heights individually like Robben getting the Dutch third place.

Messi and Ronaldo are both incredible and among the best 10 of all time but let's face it - they play for super teams who simply develop and or buy the best players in the world.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Can a few of you just remind me how this “average” Argentina team have done in the last two big competitions they were in?

Spoiled Madrid-esque fans

Which part of by no means average means that I think they're average.

 

[Lord SInister]

Argentina is not side filled with average players, but they are a poorly managed side.
The Messidependencia tactic is really uninspiring from someone as talented as Jorge Sampaoli.
No player can win all the games everytime, like we saw in 2014 World Cup, where Messi lost the steam after QF, even though performed much better in the final, than he is credited for.
The fact when they have such a huge talent pool, still struggled to qualify shows how quality of players is not always the reason for success of a team.
Asides, Messi vs Cristiano debate has now become boring. People have made up there mind, no argument can change it, unless Messi or Cristiano does some miracle in Russia, still detractors will find a way to pull either of them down.

 

[Moonred]

Average players can perform well enough to win, for example, an Euro, like Portugal did without Ronaldo.

Argentina has "world class" players who have never been up to their reputation. Never.

Reached finals in the last big competitions. Defensively solid. Maybe you should expect less from your team. Having the GOAT doesn’t guarantee everything. Calling your national team average is just acting a bit spoilt.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Winning the euros was an amazing accomplishment to an already amazing career but Ronaldo wasn't even Portugal's best player and didn't even play the final. He wasn't even Portugal's best forward!

In fact Ronaldo's best international tournaments individually were quite some time ago. He has yet to even reach the heights individually like Robben getting the Dutch third place.

Messi and Ronaldo are both incredible and among the best 10 of all time but let's face it - they play for super teams who simply develop and or buy the best players in the world.

Since objectivity is not required in this thread allow me to state that Robben is and has always been a much better national team player than both Messi and Ronaldo.

If only he had aimed a little higher in the 2010 finals.. if only if only if only

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Can a few of you just remind me how this “average” Argentina team have done in the last two big competitions they were in? A team full of players who never perform for them and that the fans hate.

@amolbhatia50k @IFC 1905

Spoiled Madrid-esque fans

Jaysus just use your bloody eyes. The stars are consistently disappointing for them. It's their defence plus Messi that get them across the line.

Also with the last line and smiley you present yourself like a child. I'm outta this thread. Please stop tagging me.

 

[IFC 1905]

Reached finals in the last big competitions. Defensively solid. Maybe you should expect less from your team. Having the GOAT doesn’t guarantee everything. Calling your national team average is just acting a bit spoilt.

But I'm talking about today. Today as a team we are average. Just watch the start up from yesterday...

And I never said we have average players, I said we are an average team. And we have 4 WC players but only one of them has proven to be up to his fame.


This team has nothing to do with the 2014 team, nor 2015/16 team.

 

[Moonred]

But I'm talking about today. Today as a team we are average. Just watch the start up from yesterday...
.

Okay that’s fine.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Jaysus just use your bloody eyes. The stars are consistently disappointing for them. It's their defence plus Messi that get them across the line.

Also with the last line and smiley you present yourself like a child. I'm outta this thread. Please stop tagging me.

I’ll tag you as often as I see fit @amolbhatia50k. It's a forum and we're here to debate/discuss.

Runner up in WC 2014, lost in extra time.
Runner up in CA2016, lost on pens
Best player in the World in team
Cracking talent pool.

Di Maria was their best player in 2014, was excellent last night. As I’ve already mentioned, 2 of the hated and multiple green smilie facies players are their 5th and 6th all time record scorers.

And if you can’t see how calling a side that has reached it’s previous two tournament finals “average” is spoiled, well then you simply must be Spanish, French or German.

If you can't see the following:

"Di Maria? We all hate him here"

Is absolutely spoiled when he was amazing for them in their 2014 run for WC final and was their second best player last night, then I'm sorry, but you need to take a deep breath, and look at this from a non biased perspective.

 

[KirkDuyt]

But I'm talking about today. Today as a team we are average. Just watch the start up from yesterday...

And I never said we have average players, I said we are an average team. And we have 4 WC players but only one of them has proven to be up to his fame.


This team has nothing to do with the 2014 team, nor 2015/16 team.

Come one you're still not an average team, you don't know what average looks like. Teams like Sweden, Norway, Holland and Turky are average. Argentina is easily top 10

 

[IFC 1905]

Runner up in WC 2014, lost in extra time.
Runner up in CA2016, lost on pens
Best player in the World in team
Cracking talent pool.

Di Maria was their best player in 2014, was excellent last night. As I’ve already mentioned, 2 of the hated and multiple green smilie facies players are their 5th and 6th all time record scorers.

I’ll tag you as often as I see fit @amolbhatia50k.

And if you can’t see how calling a side that has reached it’s previous two tournament finals “average” is spoiled, well then you simply must be Spanish, French or German.

Di maria injured in every important tournament when it matters. And since 2014 has been playing really, really bad.

And about the other ones you can say anything you want. Come here and ask it to any argentinan, they would laugh in your face more than with 20k green smilies. Maybe, maybe the fact of none of both being called to play by Sampaoli proves what I'm saying.

But who knows.

 

[IFC 1905]

Come one you're still not an average team, you don't know what average looks like. Teams like Sweden, Norway, Holland and Turky are average. Argentina is easily top 10

We are Argentina, we don't compare to those teams. I know it might sound arrongant, but we compare ourselves to Brazil, Germany, France, Spain...those who are currently the best.

And compared to them, we're average.

 

[KirkDuyt]

We are Argentina, we don't compare to those teams. I know it might sound arrongant, but we compare ourselves to Brazil, Germany, France, Spain...those who are currently the best.

And compared to them, we're average.

You don't compare to us eh?!

 

[Lord SInister]

Runner up in WC 2014, lost in extra time.
Runner up in CA2016, lost on pens
Best player in the World in team
Cracking talent pool.

Di Maria was their best player in 2014, was excellent last night. As I’ve already mentioned, 2 of the hated and multiple green smilie facies players are their 5th and 6th all time record scorers.

I’ll tag you as often as I see fit @amolbhatia50k.

And if you can’t see how calling a side that has reached it’s previous two tournament finals “average” is spoiled, well then you simply must be Spanish, French or German.

this has to be the biggest myth of Internet Fans.
One excellent game vs Switzerland(where Messi was equally impressive btw), and suddenly Di Maria outperformed Messi, Mascherano and Romero as the best player of Argentina in 2014.