Spoiler: He wont.
Should Mourinho bring in a new 'attacking coach'
- Thread starter Raees
- Start date
Personally I think the opening post of this thread is so weird. I remember reading Carlo Ancelotti's biography, he felt the need to praise Mourinho for leaving a brilliant set of training instructions. That praise was despite the bad blood between the two. Another source says this about those instructions:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...s-relentless-methods-jose-mourinho-and-his-b/
Mourinho has had so many jobs as an assistent-coach. I've seen countless of praise for his methods by top players. I've seen hundreds of wonderful attacking performances from his teams over the years. This all opposed to the 'sources' OP is referring too without linking to them.
Now we've been utterly poor attacking wise since Ferguson left. Moyes, struggled. Van Gaal struggled to have us create chances. Mourinho struggled with this last season too, for sure, but I'm also quite sure it's not just him.
I just checked, from the looks of it we still are second in terms of goals scored this year. 18 teams have scored less goals than us in the league, 1 team has scored more. We have scored more goals than Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, should they hire an attacking coach too? I personally think this actually is our best year in terms of attacking performances since Ferguson retired and I'm happy we're finally on the way up attacking wise, and I think this is down to Mourinho's methods more than anything. So yeah, I really just don't see where 'Mourinho sucks at setting up a team properly so he must hire an attacking coach' fits in, other than people getting a bit frustrated or hysterical.
The reason why we struggle even this season to create at times is psychological I think. Teams are always out to get Manchester United's scalp. Plenty of smaller teams come to Old Trafford to play their match of the year, with the same intensity as a cup final. Ten men behind the ball is the norm. It's just really hard for any team to easily brush teams with a mentality like that aside, you even see it in games with professional vs. amateur teams. Still though, we've been looking pretty good at dealing with set-ups like that this season.
,,
Training by 'the Bible'
Training is precise, intense and everything is with the ball; the session is still defined down to the exact number of minutes and Mourinho has his stopwatch and his clipboard. Mourinho also still has a ‘Bible’ which he began to compile when he was coaching the juniors at Vitoria de Setubal back in Portugal and which is the ‘training file’ that is made up of his ideas. He used to meticulously update it every day although given the body of work he has now achieved and his experience that is unlikely to still be the case.
Mourinho will sketch out a basic drawing of how he wants training to go – even where the equipment will be placed and so on – he will meet with the medical staff every day and he will even go out on to the training pitches to inspect the length of the grass and make sure they are properly watered. He will, he says, never be late, either, although that is not always the case given the demands upon a modern-day manager."
Training by 'the Bible'
Training is precise, intense and everything is with the ball; the session is still defined down to the exact number of minutes and Mourinho has his stopwatch and his clipboard. Mourinho also still has a ‘Bible’ which he began to compile when he was coaching the juniors at Vitoria de Setubal back in Portugal and which is the ‘training file’ that is made up of his ideas. He used to meticulously update it every day although given the body of work he has now achieved and his experience that is unlikely to still be the case.
Mourinho will sketch out a basic drawing of how he wants training to go – even where the equipment will be placed and so on – he will meet with the medical staff every day and he will even go out on to the training pitches to inspect the length of the grass and make sure they are properly watered. He will, he says, never be late, either, although that is not always the case given the demands upon a modern-day manager."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...s-relentless-methods-jose-mourinho-and-his-b/
Mourinho has had so many jobs as an assistent-coach. I've seen countless of praise for his methods by top players. I've seen hundreds of wonderful attacking performances from his teams over the years. This all opposed to the 'sources' OP is referring too without linking to them.
Now we've been utterly poor attacking wise since Ferguson left. Moyes, struggled. Van Gaal struggled to have us create chances. Mourinho struggled with this last season too, for sure, but I'm also quite sure it's not just him.
I just checked, from the looks of it we still are second in terms of goals scored this year. 18 teams have scored less goals than us in the league, 1 team has scored more. We have scored more goals than Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, should they hire an attacking coach too? I personally think this actually is our best year in terms of attacking performances since Ferguson retired and I'm happy we're finally on the way up attacking wise, and I think this is down to Mourinho's methods more than anything. So yeah, I really just don't see where 'Mourinho sucks at setting up a team properly so he must hire an attacking coach' fits in, other than people getting a bit frustrated or hysterical.
The reason why we struggle even this season to create at times is psychological I think. Teams are always out to get Manchester United's scalp. Plenty of smaller teams come to Old Trafford to play their match of the year, with the same intensity as a cup final. Ten men behind the ball is the norm. It's just really hard for any team to easily brush teams with a mentality like that aside, you even see it in games with professional vs. amateur teams. Still though, we've been looking pretty good at dealing with set-ups like that this season.
Our attackers ...
Lukauku after the honeymoon period now being found out for what he is journeyman CF , flat track bully ,nowhere near world class found his level at Everton
Martial incapable of putting in regular great performances has had lots of chances but can't make himself undroppable
Rashford sick of hearing the word potential will never be a 20 goal a season man
Zlatan oh how I wish he was 10 years younger our only world class forward but past his best ( still our best striker though )
Mikhi finding it far tougher than Germany
Mata always good for 8/10 goals but on a downward spiral
Pogba our only real hope to get maybe 10/15 from midfield
Lingard ... words fail me
The 4.0 wins early doors flattered to deceive , lack of goals for secondly half of season will be our weakness
Lukauku after the honeymoon period now being found out for what he is journeyman CF , flat track bully ,nowhere near world class found his level at Everton
Martial incapable of putting in regular great performances has had lots of chances but can't make himself undroppable
Rashford sick of hearing the word potential will never be a 20 goal a season man
Zlatan oh how I wish he was 10 years younger our only world class forward but past his best ( still our best striker though )
Mikhi finding it far tougher than Germany
Mata always good for 8/10 goals but on a downward spiral
Pogba our only real hope to get maybe 10/15 from midfield
Lingard ... words fail me
The 4.0 wins early doors flattered to deceive , lack of goals for secondly half of season will be our weakness
Last time I checked we have scored more goals than everyone but citeh.
Mental that we struggle to break down a team for one match (right after a 4 goal haul the last week) and people complain. Its not even like we didnt score today.
Mental that we struggle to break down a team for one match (right after a 4 goal haul the last week) and people complain. Its not even like we didnt score today.
It's not about the goals. It's about our lack of cohesiveness going forward, that most of our rivals have. Thank goodness for Pogba who can carry the ball forward and can work in congested spaces, otherwise we can only resort to bypassing the midfield.
What does Mike Phelan do?
He needs something, because we look we lack cohesion in the final third.
Yeah, he just needs AVB to rejoin his coaching staff.
We just need to start doing the opposite of everything we currently do. Which is...
- Build up play is far too slow,
- Lack of movement - our front four majority of the time stand in a line and wait for the ball,
- Not enough width, far too often they all drift and bunch in the middle of the pitch. Hence the lack of space,
- Full backs not overlapping - they stand still watching the winger isolated expecting them to take it past 2 or 3 players.
Most people think 'attacking' means 100 passes or an eye of the needle pass which lead to a goal. They don't think scoring from set pieces or crosses counts as attacking, they don't think attacking from a mistake by the opponent is attacking. These people would say that Chess is a shite game because it's too strategic. They would complain about campers in a video game like a child.
I have seen plenty of good attacking play this season, but it doesnt count because it was not against a top team, or in the last 10-20 minutes of the game. Just any excuse to not give credit to the team.
If we have to use Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Zlatan and Pogba - every one of our very best attacking players - and we still cannot destroy a, let's be honest, poor team like BHA then either
- At least some of the players I have listed are very overrated
- AND/OR Jose is not doing a decent job managing his team to chance creation
Said it when we he first joined, I really hoped he would freshen up his coaching staff but he didn't and he won't. Hate to compare, but Fergie had it figured out, he would have a coach to balance out his weaknesses.
There's a brilliant offensive coach at City.
fecking hell, you'd have committed suicide when Ronaldo and Rooney were growing into the team...
Where is Carlos Querioz these days?
Why dont we do that... i dont get it
Everything according to him.
Didn't he say something like I would not be surprised if people say we played with too many attacker today?
Weird. What is he trying to say or prove? The balance theory?
Weird. What is he trying to say or prove? The balance theory?
I saw both there debuts
Neither of them grew into it they both hit the ground running and within a season were "undroppable "
I just wish I could say the same for Martial and Rashford they are getting plenty of chances to establish themselves and need to do so quickly
Exceptional post.
You would think that the fact in his career his teams have only at worst been 2nd top goal scorers and the majority of the time his teams have been top goal scorers would have been enough to shut down this absurd argument. All this while also conceding the least amount of goals. Yet it seems like it's not enough.
Yet with all these undeniable facts somehow he manages to be a defensive coward with little or no clue in attacking coaching.
Somehow these armchair Einsteins have managed to exceed themselves and square that circle.
Times change and managers need to as well. What worked even 5 years ago, won’t work now.
Fergie knew this and made the necessary changes to his backroom staff at regular intervals. When we fell short in Europe, he brought in CQ to revolution our play.
Mourinho has had pretty much the exact same coaching staff for about 10 years now.
Our style of play is horrifically dated. Something has to change!
Harking back to the past says it all. With us or Chelsea the football hasn't been great for a while now. I think its clear he's changed in his approach.
What he did at Porto, Inter and Madrid doesn't really matter. At some point in the near future he'll have to get the team playing high quality attacking football on a consistent basis or he'll be out.
So a group of experienced professionals can't see that the game has apparently changed and made our tactics "dated" but you can?
They're unable to grasp these complicated nuances that you've spotted?
Or Brighton, which I am gonna say you haven't watched all season, are actually a well drilled defensive side. 6th best in the league in fact, with a manager who knows how to tactically set up a team. Yawn
Truly excellent post.
I think pretty much any Manchester United fan can see that tactically our team is being set up wrongly! What is the alternative, every fecking player we have is shit?
We're second in the league and goals scored so no not that shit.
Our team has flaws and bad days though pretty much like every other team.
I disagree. If you look at team stats from last season Man Utd was among the leading teams in clear cut chances, shots, shots on target, corners, possession, and just about every offensive (and defensive) category; just couldn't score. This season started great until the injuries started. People seem to forget that half the starters have been injured for at least half of the current season, including Pogba, who is by far the most important creative player.
Finally, when you look at the squad, there are still many weaknesses there; Valencia is the only wingback capable of contributing on attack, the wingers (Rashford and Martial) are young and inconsistent, and number 10 (AMC) is not quite good enough. If you look at Mourihno's successful teams he always had a solid team structure and relied heavily on a world class #10 and striker to provide goals (Hazard and Costa in Chelsea, Ozil and Ronaldo in Madrid, Sneijder and Milito in Inter). I like Miki, but I think Klopp's press and run style suited him better because he is not a very efficient player. In Klopp's system the chances came from forcing the opposition into losing the ball in dangerous areas, and that's where Miki is good in counterattacks. But Mourihno's style requires a #10 that is more of a playmaker that can create something out of nothing, and in some games even do it from very few opportunities (because in big games he focuses on defense, let's face it). And the same goes for strikers; he values efficiency because there are games when they won't have many opportunities.
This is my first post, but I've been reading this forum for a while now, and I see a lot of fans are very impatient. But remember that Man Utd hasn't been the same for years after Fergie left, and that in less than 2 seasons you are back in the CL, you won 3 trophies last year, and you are 2nd in the EPL after having half the team injured for half the season. Yes, money has been spent, but the only team ahead of you spent just as much and has already had a better team for a long time.
Finally, when you look at the squad, there are still many weaknesses there; Valencia is the only wingback capable of contributing on attack, the wingers (Rashford and Martial) are young and inconsistent, and number 10 (AMC) is not quite good enough. If you look at Mourihno's successful teams he always had a solid team structure and relied heavily on a world class #10 and striker to provide goals (Hazard and Costa in Chelsea, Ozil and Ronaldo in Madrid, Sneijder and Milito in Inter). I like Miki, but I think Klopp's press and run style suited him better because he is not a very efficient player. In Klopp's system the chances came from forcing the opposition into losing the ball in dangerous areas, and that's where Miki is good in counterattacks. But Mourihno's style requires a #10 that is more of a playmaker that can create something out of nothing, and in some games even do it from very few opportunities (because in big games he focuses on defense, let's face it). And the same goes for strikers; he values efficiency because there are games when they won't have many opportunities.
This is my first post, but I've been reading this forum for a while now, and I see a lot of fans are very impatient. But remember that Man Utd hasn't been the same for years after Fergie left, and that in less than 2 seasons you are back in the CL, you won 3 trophies last year, and you are 2nd in the EPL after having half the team injured for half the season. Yes, money has been spent, but the only team ahead of you spent just as much and has already had a better team for a long time.
How is it dated? Are Spurs, Liverpool or Arsenal more advanced?
If its so 'dated', how come it still wins trophies and is doing so well this season?
So many contradictions here.
You point out how poor Moyes and LvG were but then praise Mourinho for being better than them. Doesn't say much does it?
You say last season's struggles weren't just down to Mourinho(I agree) but this seasons upturn definitely is. That's very selective.
You point out we've scored more than 18 other teams. Great we've scored a few more than Everton and Crystal Palace. A reason to be cheerful? Talk about setting the bar low.
Finally you think the reason we're struggling this season is teams raise their game against us. It's been like that every game for the last 20 years and will continue to be so for a very long time. Absurd to suggest it's a problem for this particular year.
I don't think anyone can doubt how methodical and hard working Mourinho is. Hence all the success and tributes from those who've worked with him. However right now in this instant I think there's a question mark over his ability to inspire a team to play the kind of exciting, attacking football this club needs, wants and deserves. The kind of football that wins the biggest trophies.
There's enough stuff to rightly defend Mourinho with. I don't see any of that in your post though.
Funny thing the balance theory that he was talking about does sound lame. We lost 1-0 to Basel when we had the balance in our XI.
You made it sound like Mourinho has a great man management which I agree. But his great man management or methods of his management isn't what people are moaning about. I think people are moaning about his playing style especially in attack, which we should have expected from the start when we hired him as our manager. I have watched so many analysis of pundits during his time and those pundits were talking and praising about his defensive tactic.
You have a romanticised view of the past... Just look back at the thread history on the caf back then to see how much doubt there was over Utd and Fergie even among some of the fanbase. I know this cos I was on the forum back then.
its almost like people forget how bad things were with Moyes and LvG. Hell even in SAFs last 2 seasons it seemed like he was relying on individual brilliance to get us through games.
We've got the second highest goal tally in the league this season and still people want more. Now i'm not saying its perfect but a dam side better than the last couple of seasons.
We've got the second highest goal tally in the league this season and still people want more. Now i'm not saying its perfect but a dam side better than the last couple of seasons.
While we have a good tally of goals this season so far relatively speaking, our actual offensive power is still weak. We have talented players who can score goals in clear-cut chances. So when the opposition's defence is poor, we'll score 4. But when they are good, we don't score nearly as much. Because our offensive power sucks, and therefore less good chances are being created.
There's a reason why City's offence is so much stronger than us. When they have the ball, they make sure they're always outnumbering the opponent in all positions as often as possible. It takes a few things to achieve that, and they can do it. On the contrary, we're the opposite of that. We're constantly outnumbered by the defense.
As to why I don't even know where to start. Slow movements, not enough runs, little teamwork when it comes to movement, obvious positioning, too focus on keeping possession, slow to react to chances, we don't pass into space often enough, overlaps don't overload defence due to poor positioning from wide players...
There's a reason why City's offence is so much stronger than us. When they have the ball, they make sure they're always outnumbering the opponent in all positions as often as possible. It takes a few things to achieve that, and they can do it. On the contrary, we're the opposite of that. We're constantly outnumbered by the defense.
As to why I don't even know where to start. Slow movements, not enough runs, little teamwork when it comes to movement, obvious positioning, too focus on keeping possession, slow to react to chances, we don't pass into space often enough, overlaps don't overload defence due to poor positioning from wide players...
I say it is the players themselves. Tactically we are set up well. If they cannot see the openings and when to pass and when to hold, then they are responsible. Look at the movements and passing. How many times did Lukaku move the wrong way or Rashford to pass to the space Lukaku had just vacated. We hold on to the ball too long.
We should actually change the system and go for a diamond. Play with Matic and Herrera/Fellaini with Pogba. Drop Zlatan into the number 10 role. Actually I will play Blind in the number 10 role if Zlatan is not fit.
When we turn them over yesterday, 1) either Rahsford tried to do all on his own. 2). Mata tried to dribble, 3) Lukaku could not hold the ball, 4), we were too slow and let them get back.
We should actually change the system and go for a diamond. Play with Matic and Herrera/Fellaini with Pogba. Drop Zlatan into the number 10 role. Actually I will play Blind in the number 10 role if Zlatan is not fit.
When we turn them over yesterday, 1) either Rahsford tried to do all on his own. 2). Mata tried to dribble, 3) Lukaku could not hold the ball, 4), we were too slow and let them get back.
Omg stop the presses!
shocker we don’t score nearly as much against better sides. That’s a hell of a statement mate care to enlighten us?People here need to grow up. Jose took a average squad and make them good. Pep took a good squad and had made them great. From where we’ve been in the last few seasons we can’t compete against the top just yet. It’s too soon. People expect because of how much we’ve spent we should be up there but much of what we’ve spent is in areas we were severely weak. With those areas shored up in the coming windows we’ll address the rest. Of this I am confident. But o get it. Instant success instantly
Sir Alex used to let his coaches handle the fine on the pitch little details in the latter parts of his career so it definitely is possible.
We could score even more goals if the attacking play in the final third has more support ,cohesion and numbers. The attacking players do not provide much support on the parallel run to draw defenders in confusion and also provide the player on goal an extra support to square the ball , then the shots are predictable and gets blocked.
We can look great too with some minute finer details when attacking with the ball.
Example- When martial was through on goal vs basel by a brilliant through ball by herrera, all of lukaku who dint provide a square option to him , Lingard and pogba never made runs and joined the attack to provide square and cut back options and as a result martial had to deal with 2 players and take the shot alone which was blocked eaisily by the keeper.
Now this routine was sheerly down to the lethargicity of lukaku lingard and pogba who dint make attacking runs for support. And most of the times there is little support , we depend on individual quality of the player to score that goal which currently is lacking in our young players and player like lukaku who's finishing skills need a lot more sharpning.