Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[I Believe]

It must have been painful for you to concede that the same person who nominates the EU Commissioner also appoints the Cabinet

Be careful not to tie yourself up in knots! This has never been an issue as far as I'm concerned the cabinet appointment is already a directly elected by the public as an MP, the Commissioners are not elected at all, what is so difficult to understand about that?

Did the Uk Head of State nominate a dubious character

Can't answer for other countries, but over the years there have been some dubious characters nominated by British PM's, Mandelson (also known by the press as the Prince of Darkness) three times he had to resign or get booted out of the Cabinet, but he was nominated as a Commissioner, also 'windbag' Kinnock, was also a glorious nominee, its probably more than likely the jobs for the boys is also replicated elsewhere, after all it is known as the gravy-train!

I never said Macron or Merkel nominated more than one

No, but you said I said it!

you keep saying the Commissioners are the masters of the EU and on the other hand say Merkel and Macron are waving their big stick, which one is it

Merkel and Macron orchestrate, point the direction, draw the red lines, etc. the Commissioners deliver the policies, the laws, this is where the analogy with UK Senior Civil Servants would be useful if you could accept it, but you can't, you still cling to trying to say the Commissioners somehow have public authorisation but of course they don't!

Now the accountability, in my first post on the subject and in the item quoted from the EU

Is this what you are referring to?

Amended Extract
What does the Commission do?
Proposes new laws
The Commission is the sole EU institution tabling laws for adoption by the Parliament and the Council that:

• protect the interests of the EU and its citizens on issues that can't be dealt with effectively at national level;
• get technical details right by consulting experts and the public.

Manages EU policies & allocates EU funding

• Sets EU spending priorities, together with the Council and Parliament.
• Draws up annual budgets for approval by the Parliament and Council.
• Supervises how the money is spent, under scrutiny by the Court of Auditors.

Enforces EU law

• Together with the Court of Justice, ensures that EU law is properly applied in all the member countries.

Represents the EU internationally

• Speaks on behalf of all EU countries in international bodies, in particular in areas of trade policy and humanitarian aid.
• Negotiates international agreements for the EU.

Commissioners -they make the laws and are unelected

Lots of power there for Commissioners (come on admit it they are at least unelected Civil Servants, at best Masters of the EU)

I want the half-wit out of office, what do I do?

Exercise your vote at the next election, but you cannot do that with Commissioners can you?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Looks like Brexit has ultimately sent us on our way to a United Ireland me thinks, a soft (if that's what its called) border is unworkable. Wonder what Arlene will say to that considering she's propping up the current government.

 

[Jippy]

Finally we're making some progress, very slow but you move one step forward and two steps back. It must have been painful for you to concede that the same person who nominates the EU Commissioner also appoints the Cabinet but then you spoil it by saying dubious characters. Did the Uk Head of State nominate a dubious character or is it only the 27 other Heads of States who nominated a dubious character, looks like your inherent suspicion of foreigners is peeking through.

I never said Macron or Merkel nominated more than one - you keep saying the Commissioners are the masters of the EU and on the other hand say Merkel and Macron are waving their big stick, which one is it? - is it the Commissioners or Merkel/Macron controlling the EU , by your own admission it can't be both.

Now the accountability, in my first post on the subject and in the item quoted from the EU it explains how this works, you should try harder. Hint - 2/3rds majority in EU parliament vote of no confidence.

Now I have a problem - I live in Rushcliffe and my MP is Kenneth Clarke, I am a Tory and voted for him and I am pro-Remain like him.
Unfortunately Theresa May has appointed a half-wit as Brexit secretary. The said half-wit is not my MP and I can't vote him out and in any case there is no election scheduled till 2022 - I've written to Theresa May but a robot replied and said they couldn't do anything to assist me. I want the half-wit out of office, what do I do?

Sorry who made the laws again?

That half-wit is my mum's MP. Haltemprice & Howden in E. Yorks is one of the safest Tory seats in the land.
He is something of a local hero too.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Be careful not to tie yourself up in knots! This has never been an issue as far as I'm concerned the cabinet appointment is already a directly elected by the public as an MP, the Commissioners are not elected at all, what is so difficult to understand about that?

Can't answer for other countries, but over the years there have been some dubious characters nominated by British PM's, Mandelson (also known by the press as the Prince of Darkness) three times he had to resign or get booted out of the Cabinet, but he was nominated as a Commissioner, also 'windbag' Kinnock, was also a glorious nominee, its probably more than likely the jobs for the boys is also replicated elsewhere, after all it is known as the gravy-train!

No, but you said I said it!

Merkel and Macron orchestrate, point the direction, draw the red lines, etc. the Commissioners deliver the policies, the laws, this is were the analogy with UK Senior Civil Servants would be useful if you could accept it, but you can't, you still cling to trying to say the Commissioners somehow have public authorisation but of course they don't!

Is this what you are referring to?

Amended Extract
What does the Commission do?
Proposes new laws
The Commission is the sole EU institution tabling laws for adoption by the Parliament and the Council that:

• protect the interests of the EU and its citizens on issues that can't be dealt with effectively at national level;
• get technical details right by consulting experts and the public.

Manages EU policies & allocates EU funding

• Sets EU spending priorities, together with the Council and Parliament.
• Draws up annual budgets for approval by the Parliament and Council.
• Supervises how the money is spent, under scrutiny by the Court of Auditors.

Enforces EU law

• Together with the Court of Justice, ensures that EU law is properly applied in all the member countries.

Represents the EU internationally

• Speaks on behalf of all EU countries in international bodies, in particular in areas of trade policy and humanitarian aid.
• Negotiates international agreements for the EU.

Commissioners -they make the laws and are unelected

Lots of power there for Commissioners (come on admit it they are at least unelected Civil Servants, at best Masters of the EU)

Exercise your vote at the next election, but you cannot do that with Commissioners can you?

Do you have problem understanding English, I can switch to French if that makes it easier to understand.

You've avoided all the points again but keep referring back to 15 to 20 years ago and we all know what happened then. But you seem to referring to problems with UK commissioners, do you mean it's the UK that nominates dubious characters? Just as well the UK is leaving then, don't want these type of people. Who knows who Theresa May may nominate next, could be John Redwood...

I have not said that Merkel and Macron appointed more than one Commissioner each, please quote it without playing with the words of my quote. You will note that I pointed out to you that each country appoints one Commissioner each.

One minute you say that Merkel and Macron point the direction and draw the red lines and the next you say that the Commissioners are the masters, surely you can see this makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, neither of these are true. If you'd stop inventing things and lying you may make more sense.

I don't recall mentioning civil servants, you're mixing up posters again but you're getting closer , civil servants are not elected either. Difference is the Commissioners are nominated in 5 year cycles. The next commission appointments, as I've already advised will be made in 2019, there could be a whole new batch of 27 commissioners, no UK of course and Juncker won't be President.

Out of the quotes you missed this little gem:
Once legislation is passed by the Council and Parliament, it is the Commission's responsibility to ensure it is implemented. It does this through the member states or through its agencies.

As for voting out the Brexit secretary I've already explained why I can't vote him out, better read that bit again, by the way since my post I have 30000 other voters saying the same thing , even the Labour voters in my constituency look as if they will join us, the SNP have indicated that they will support us, now just to rally the other Tory remainers and some Labour ones - still can't do anything, next election is in 2022 and he's not my MP, only the unfortunate people of his constituency like Jippy's poor mum can get rid of him.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

That half-wit is my mum's MP. Haltemprice & Howden in E. Yorks is one of the safest Tory seats in the land.
He is something of a local hero too.

I've just been thinking back to how I voted when I lived in the UK and although I lived in quite a few different constituencies, they were all very safe seats and my vote actually counted for nothing the whole time, at least my vote in the 1975 referendum counted.

 

[JPRouve]

@Paul the Wolf , you are wasting your time.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

@Paul the Wolf , you are wasting your time.

I know but it's amusing and at the same time , you never know, other marginal Brexiters may realise they've been duped.

 

[711]

I've just been thinking back to how I voted when I lived in the UK and although I lived in quite a few different constituencies, they were all very safe seats and my vote actually counted for nothing the whole time, at least my vote in the 1975 referendum counted.

On reading this I first took you to mean your vote would only count if it were a deciding vote in an otherwise absolutely balanced election. But then I realised that it apparently counted in '75 and that wasn't balanced, so it must be something else. A plea for proportional representation perhaps? No, one extra vote still wouldn't count for anything, unless it actually tipped the result, would it? Ah, the clue might be in '75, a vote only counts if it's for the winning side?

I suppose one day there will be so many people that don't believe in democracy that we'll lose it. History and circles and that.

 

[Cheesy]

On reading this I first took you to mean your vote would only count if it were a deciding vote in an otherwise absolutely balanced election. But then I realised that it apparently counted in '75 and that wasn't balanced, so it must be something else. A plea for proportional representation perhaps? No, one extra vote still wouldn't count for anything, unless it actually tipped the result, would it? Ah, the clue might be in '75, a vote only counts if it's for the winning side?

I suppose one day there will be so many people that don't believe in democracy that we'll lose it. History and circles and that.

No, he's talking about the first past the post system. If you're in a safe constituency where the result is basically decided before the election your vote is meaningless to the wider process. Especially if you support a smaller party.

 

[711]

No, he's talking about the first past the post system. If you're in a safe constituency where the result is basically decided before the election your vote is meaningless to the wider process. Especially if you support a smaller party.

Yet it counted in the 75 referendum, which was binary and so completely first past the post. Take your hobby-horse somewhere else.

 

[Cheesy]

Yet it counted in the 75 referendum, which was binary and so completely first past the post. Take your hobby-horse somewhere else.

Eh? In a binary referendum every vote directly counts towards the final count. In a FPTP system small parties are inherently disadvantaged by the system and if you're in an area where your smallish party will get 5-10% then there's no point in voting. Don't want to get too much into that in this thread though.

 

[jackofalltrades]

It has been surprising that in some of the previous posts about EU/UK democracy little was mentioned about how strange the system in the UK is. Not that it doesn't have its advantages, but with a totally unelected second house and no proportional representation it is possibly the least fair of modern democracies.

 

[711]

It has been surprising that in some of the previous posts about EU/UK democracy little was mentioned about how strange the system in the UK is. Not that it doesn't have its advantages, but with a totally unelected second house and no proportional representation it is possibly the least fair of modern democracies.

I'm no Corbynite but if he came in and twatted the House of Lords there wouldn't be too many tears shed, I think.

 

[jackofalltrades]

I'm no Corbynite but if he came in and twatted the House of Lords there wouldn't be too many tears shed, I think.

And yet it never happens.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

So, horrendously expensive education and a rampant housing market is the EU‘s fault? Sorry, but that’s the UK‘s responsibility.

I suppose the argument goes we can't stop immigration if we are inside the EU and those numbers are why we have such an upward pressure on house prices.

I don't think that is illogical reasoning, the idea that we can just build more houses is a tempting cop-out if you want to take the EU side in this argument.

Yes, we could build more houses, probably even enough to house everyone who is coming but why should we be forced to build more houses where we don't want to just because the EU says we are not allowed to limit demand? It might be cheaper, in the long run, to tell the EU to get stuffed and bring in policies to limit migration to levels more easily coped with.

We have a substantial domestic demand for more houses and admitting that there could be a problem building a new city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 5 years in order to house those new arrivals alone and that that could be why we have an insufficient supply isn't unreasonable.

 

[711]

And yet it never happens.

Well the Tories wouldn't have done it for the hundred plus years they had an inbuilt Lords majority. Labour did greatly reduce the Lords but never considered it worth the huge amount of parliamentary time it would take to completely abolish it, and replace it with something else. Topically, we're now spending that time on leaving the EU instead.

Nothing stays the same. The Lords will go one day.

 

[Member 5225]

Apologies but a bit off-topic. How do people feel about this (guessing it’s true):

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[The Outsider]

I suppose the argument goes we can't stop immigration if we are inside the EU and those numbers are why we have such an upward pressure on house prices.

I don't think that is illogical reasoning, the idea that we can just build more houses is a tempting cop-out if you want to take the EU side in this argument.

Yes, we could build more houses, probably even enough to house everyone who is coming but why should we be forced to build more houses where we don't want to just because the EU says we are not allowed to limit demand? It might be cheaper, in the long run, to tell the EU to get stuffed and bring in policies to limit migration to levels more easily coped with.

We have a substantial domestic demand for more houses and admitting that there could be a problem building a new city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 5 years in order to house those new arrivals alone and that that could be why we have an insufficient supply isn't unreasonable.

Spot on!

My opinion with the immigrants coming here to do the lower paid jobs that Brits 'do not want' is that they should be given 5-7 years work visas and none issued after a certain age say 35.
People on low pay will eat less healthily and be more susceptible to degenerative diseases and need the NHS more. If they only have 5-7 year work visas that will not be an issue for the UK and also we wont need to build x number of new cities as our population will not keep growing so fast.

 

[fcbforever]

I suppose the argument goes we can't stop immigration if we are inside the EU and those numbers are why we have such an upward pressure on house prices.

I don't think that is illogical reasoning, the idea that we can just build more houses is a tempting cop-out if you want to take the EU side in this argument.

Yes, we could build more houses, probably even enough to house everyone who is coming but why should we be forced to build more houses where we don't want to just because the EU says we are not allowed to limit demand? It might be cheaper, in the long run, to tell the EU to get stuffed and bring in policies to limit migration to levels more easily coped with.

We have a substantial domestic demand for more houses and admitting that there could be a problem building a new city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 5 years in order to house those new arrivals alone and that that could be why we have an insufficient supply isn't unreasonable.

He talked about being unable to be a homeowner. Sorry, but the ground and home prices in your typical middle class suburbia are not influenced by immigration. They are very much influenced by the stupid UK regulations in regards to assigning new housing areas. Because please tell me: why is it such a problem in the UK, but not in Germany in France, both having higher or the same number of immigrants? It’s bullshit.

 

[fcbforever]

Apologies but a bit off-topic. How do people feel about this (guessing it’s true):

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

What paper, what organization, founded by whom and by how much ... sorry, but it’s just bullshit. One article and I know I wouldn’t even touch that website with the tip of my big toe.

 

[4bars]

Spot on!

My opinion with the immigrants coming here to do the lower paid jobs that Brits 'do not want' is that they should be given 5-7 years work visas and none issued after a certain age say 35.
People on low pay will eat less healthily and be more susceptible to degenerative diseases and need the NHS more. If they only have 5-7 year work visas that will not be an issue for the UK and also we wont need to build x number of new cities as our population will not keep growing so fast.

Maybe I did not understand it vlearly, because my english is limited. But basically you are proposing use them when they are healthy (and pay their taxes to the NHS) and chuck them when they are worn out (not being able to use the taxes that they fairly paid to the NHS)?

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

Apologies but a bit off-topic. How do people feel about this (guessing it’s true):

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Westmonster, sounds like a legit source

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Apologies but a bit off-topic. How do people feel about this (guessing it’s true):

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Taking this at face value, the article seems to indicate that it is ordering journos not to report on immigrant stories. That is bullshit in itself.

 

[Pexbo]

Westmonster, sounds like a legit source

Blue tick though mate so take it as gospel.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm no snitch but @Rado_N .

 

[Pexbo]

OK so here we go:

westmonster.com whois lookup:

ADMINISTRATIVE CONTACT
Name:
Domains Administrator

Organization:
Eldon Insurance Services Limited

Street:
Lysander House Catbrain Lane, Cribbs Causeway

City:
Bristol

State:
South Gloucestershire

Postal Code:
BS10 7TQ

Country:
GB

Phone:
+44.8449029778

Email:

@eldoninsurance.co.uk

Eldon Insurance Services Founder: Arron Banks

In November 2017, the Electoral Commission announced that it is investigating whether election rules were broken during the EU referendum, in donations worth a total of £8.4 million to Leave.EU campaigners made by Banks and by Better for the Country Ltd, a company of which Banks is a registered director.

Is it a trustworthy source?

feck no

 

[4bars]

Yep.

Nice. Not people but things

 

[Dan]

OK so here we go:

westmonster.com whois lookup:




Eldon Insurance Services Founder: Arron Banks




Is it a trustworthy source?

feck no

Nice.

 

[4bars]

just a new form of indentured servitude. (i dont know if you know what that means)

Had to check, but yes, It is what it looks like.

So basically, you have a young and strong worker (whatever education paid by country of origin) you use it to build up your economy (via first, second, third private sectors), consume from your economy (ergo building up more your economy), pay taxews (building up more your economy via public sector. And then, when he/she needs what he earned. Nah sorry mate, get the feck our of my country. Well, you are hot, maybe as a prostitute till you get ugly?

And please, say thanks you you ungrateful cnut

 

[Rado_N]

I'm no snitch but @Rado_N .

Huh, what?

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

OK so here we go:

westmonster.com whois lookup:




Eldon Insurance Services Founder: Arron Banks




Is it a trustworthy source?

feck no

I'm unsure what you're saying here but I'll take a punt and guess that we need cross reference West Monster with East Monster and the Loch Ness Monster just to be completely sure

Is Nessy on twitter?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Had to check, but yes, It is what it looks like.

So basically, you have a young and strong worker (whatever education paid by country of origin) you use it to build up your economy (via first, second, third private sectors), consume from your economy (ergo building up more your economy), pay taxews (building up more your economy via public sector. And then, when he/she needs what he earned. Nah sorry mate, get the feck our of my country. Well, you are hot, maybe as a prostitute till you get ugly?

And please, say thanks you you ungrateful cnut

He didn’t say he’d force anybody to come here.

Would you prefer if the border was closed to people completely and therefore nobody could exploit them in the manner you are fearful of?

 

[JPRouve]

Huh, what?

The westmonster tweet reminded me, the argument that you had yesterday.

 

[C3Pique]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The conspiracy theorist in me says that Johnson has been rumbled as a foreign agent but the cat hasn't been let out of the bag yet, so the FO are in damage limitation mode.

In reality it's because the FO (and everyone else) know that hes a fecking idiot and extremely likely to cause offence.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Westmonster just scours the internet for questionable stories about Islam etc.

Like a network made for Tommy Robinson and Paul Joseph Weirdo

 

[Rado_N]

The westmonster tweet reminded me, the argument that you had yesterday.

Someone being a troll?

 

[Abizzz]

OK so here we go:

westmonster.com whois lookup:




Eldon Insurance Services Founder: Arron Banks




Is it a trustworthy source?

feck no

Good find! It's the brexiteers once again lying to have a basis for their arguments. The mind boggling thing is that there's still people who shut their eyes to what is so open to see for everyone, and tell themselves 'I believe'.

 

[4bars]

He didn’t say he’d force anybody to come here.

Would you prefer if the border was closed to people completely and therefore nobody could exploit them in the manner you are fearful of?

So you basically would be in favour of any law that could exploit everyone (labour, sexual, slavery, etc...) in any way under their responsability. feck human rights or basic decency.

There is nothing like, for sheer luck, being born in a place to feel entitled to tell others feck you, better luck in the next reincarnation.

 

[Cheesy]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The conspiracy theorist in me says that Johnson has been rumbled as a foreign agent but the cat hasn't been let out of the bag yet, so the FO are in damage limitation mode.

In reality it's because the FO (and everyone else) know that hes a fecking idiot and extremely likely to cause offence.

Foreign agent?! Bit extreme, even as someone who detests him.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

He talked about being unable to be a homeowner. Sorry, but the ground and home prices in your typical middle class suburbia are not influenced by immigration. They are very much influenced by the stupid UK regulations in regards to assigning new housing areas. Because please tell me: why is it such a problem in the UK, but not in Germany in France, both having higher or the same number of immigrants? It’s bullshit.

In the UK we tend to feel that if you work full time pay your taxes and follow the rules then after 25 to 30 years, you should be able to own your own home. I think that's a good thing and gives people a stake in the society they live in and something to aim for.

Prices follow supply and demand, increase the population and you increase the demand and the price follows. The land is finite and people don't want the homes they own and the area they bought to live in changed after they bought. It is understandable and given that resistance to new building why not limit demand?

I don't give a shit about what you do in Germany or France you can live in tents, shanty towns or build houses on the moon for all I care. Let everyone in the whole world come and live there if it's not a problem but I bet it is a problem and I bet you know most people would have a problem with it.

So I call bullshit on your Greasy Strangler of an argument.