Serie A 90's draft

[Moby]

Cannavaro, as well as Seedorf, is a player that peaked in 00's, even though Cannavaro unarguably has a better 90's pedigree than Seedorf.

You see that your criticism of Matthäus and defending of Cannavaro is a bit hypocritical, right? You're literally forgetting your own arguments. Matthäus is still the best midfielder in the pool, even though you can say that his best form was in the late 80's; Cannavaro is still one of the best defenders in the pool, even though his best form was in the 00's.

You've no idea what I was criticising then. It's the fact that he has 2 seasons out of 10 and if someone has 3 or 4 great seasons while being a lesser name he shouldn't be ignored.

Cannavaro NT peak was in 2006, but he has several top seasons in the 90s when he was still considered one of the best defenders in the league. Regardless, if someone would bring in his 2006 WC ability in discussions here it would be similarly criticised, no one has though and in no universe is he in the same boat as people like Pirlo, Seedorf etc. Like I said he's played more in the league in 90s than he did in the 00s, and that's 7/10 full seasons.

While you can still say Canna hit his peak in 00s, fair enough, but unlike Seedorf or Pirlo he was still one of the best names in the decade for a decent amount of time.

 

[Enigma_87]

Branco @Gio

Someone please update the list.

 

[idmanager]

It's the fact that he has 2 seasons out of 10 and if someone has 3 or 4 great seasons while being a lesser name he shouldn't be ignored.

Even in all time drafts (at least the ones I have been a participant of) we use a 3 year peak.
If longevity was not used there, not sure why it should be used here.

How do we treat a player who had 9/10 performances for club A for 3 years and 5/10 for club B for 3 years in the time span?
Should his overall rating be a 7 then and a player who had performances of 8/10 and only had 3 years in Italy count as a better one?

Mind you, not criticizing your point. Its pretty valid in its own right. In fact I planned to ask this same thing before making my first pick, Rijkaard who played only for 3 seasons.
Its just that mixing longevity into discussion might not be as easy as it sounds.
Voters might still do it if they want, but I expect the discussions to go really wayward in the match day threads if the managers jump onto that train.

 

[Lord SInister]

• EAP - 1. M. van Basten 2. R. Donadoni 3. M. Tassotti 4. D. Stankovic 5. G. Pessotto

• Onenil - 1. R. Baggio 2. A. Costacurta 3. D. Baggio 4. L. Minotti 5. Careca

• harms 1. Ronaldo 2. C. Ferrara 3. P. Montero 4. Y. Djorkaeff 5. C. Seedorf

• Moby/Pat Mustard 1. G. Batistuta 2. F. Cannavaro 3. R. Mancini 4. M. Almeyda 5. E. Chiesa

• MJJ/Sjor 1. A. Del Piero 2. J. Veron 3. Aldair 4. A. Conte 5. S. Katanec

• 2mufc0/Invictus 1. Z. Zidane 2. P. Vierchowod 3. Z. Boban 4. O. Bierhoff 5. J. Angloma

• Lord Sinister 1. P. Maldini 2. G. Signori 3. A. Winter 4. V. Montella 5. M. Torricelli

• Gio 1. F. Baresi 2. G. Weah 3. D. Deschamps 4. P. Sousa 5. R. Sosa

• Enigma/The Red Viper 1. L. Matthäus 2. G. Bergomi 3. G. Vialli 4. R. Ferri 5. Dunga 6. Branco

• idmanager 1. F. Rijkaard 2. E. Davids 3. H. Crespo 4. A. Di Livio 5. R. Ayala 6. M. Salas

• antohan 1. M. Rui Costa 2. J. Kohler 3. A. Benarrivo 4. S. Mihajlovic 5. R. Sensini 6. C. Caniggia

• prath92/Crappy 1. P. Nedved 2. C. Vieri 3. D. Albertini 4. D. Savicevic 5. M. Iuliano 6. P. Ince

• Tuppet 1. R. Gullit 2. A. Brehme 3. L. Blanc 4. T. Hassler 5. R. Voller 6. N. Berti

• Cal? 1. M. Desailly 2. F. Totti 3. J. Klinsmann 4. C. Panucci 5. G Zambrotta 6. A Pirlo

• Oaencha 1. A. Nesta 2. J. Zanetti 3. G. Zola 4. F. Inzaghi 5. V. Candela 6. A. Tacchinardi

• Raees 1. Cafu 2. L. Thuram 3. D. Simeone 4. V. Jugovic 5. F. Couto 6. A. Möller

@Gio

 

[Gio]

Definition of peak: the length of time my star man spent at the top in the 90s.

 

[Theon]

Branco @Gio

Someone please update the list.

Ah bollocks. Good pick.

 

[Enigma_87]

Ah bollocks. Good pick.

Cheers mate. Could count a handful of good full backs left and he’s with the best attacking output for me.

Also on the back of a great displays in 90/91 when Genoa has an awesome year finishing 4th.

 

[Theon]

Cheers mate. Could count a handful of good full backs left and he’s with the best attacking output for me.

Also on the back of a great displays in 90/91 when Genoa has an awesome year finishing 4th.

Yeah I agree, it was him or Candela for me. Both great attacking fullbacks.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Even in all time drafts (at least the ones I have been a participant of) we use a 3 year peak.
If longevity was not used there, not sure why it should be used here.

How do we treat a player who had 9/10 performances for club A for 3 years and 5/10 for club B for 3 years in the time span?
Should his overall rating be a 7 then and a player who had performances of 8/10 and only had 3 years in Italy count as a better one?

Mind you, not criticizing your point. Its pretty valid in its own right. In fact I planned to ask this same thing before making my first pick, Rijkaard who played only for 3 seasons.
Its just that mixing longevity into discussion might not be as easy as it sounds.
Voters might still do it if they want, but I expect the discussions to go really wayward in the match day threads if the managers jump onto that train.

The advantage I see in longevity is I get to select the best matches out of that time. For instance if people need to select non-consecutive years to even qualify then there is no reason why I can't pick Roberto Baggio's 3 best seasons or 40 best games to represent his peak rather than 3 consecutive seasons (which is typical in drafts). I had planned to link moments from all Baggio's greatest Serie A/Coppa matches not just limited to 3 consecutive years.

 

[idmanager]

The advantage I see in longevity is I get to select the best matches out of that time. For instance if people need to select non-consecutive years to even qualify then there is no reason why I can't pick Roberto Baggio's 3 best seasons to represent his peak rather than 3 consecutive seasons (which is typical in drafts). I had planned to link moments from all Baggio's greatest Serie A/Coppa matches not just limited to 3 consecutive years.

Absolutely agree. As long as he played in the same position you are playing him.

But you can't hold it against someone else who played only for 2 seasons and performed at the same levels as long as the 40 game threshold is crossed IMO

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Absolutely agree. As long as he played in the same position you are playing him.

But you can't hold it against someone else who played only for 2 seasons and performed at the same levels as long as the 40 game threshold is crossed IMO

Let's not open that can of snakes, thats a different topic of debate

 

[Moby]

To be honest this went towards a direction that is far more relevant for this draft than what was going on so that's pretty good. At least we are now talking specifically about what these players did in the league in that time frame and not going on about how great they generally were, which is rather boring to read. Good job all.

 

[idmanager]

Let's not open that can of snakes, thats a different topic

Haha, it is pretty relevant though. Almost everyone would have passed on a few players keeping this in mind.

 

[Cal?]

Absolutely agree. As long as he played in the same position you are playing him.

But you can't hold it against someone else who played only for 2 seasons and performed at the same levels as long as the 40 game threshold is crossed IMO

I have a feeling that comment is directed at me.

 

[antohan]

I have a feeling that comment is directed at me.

Probably, although there's a few other players that we will have to wait and see whether their positioning/instructions are congruent with their 90s Serie A performances.

 

[idmanager]

I have a feeling that comment is directed at me.

Not at all. There are a couple of versatile players I'd love picking but have avoided as they didn't play in the position I want them to play in my lineup even though they were quite good there.
They should be picked anytime soon, so will point out then.

 

[antohan]

Not at all. There are a couple of versatile players I'd love picking but have avoided as they didn't play in the position I want them to play in my lineup even though they were quite good there.
They should be picked anytime soon, so will point out then.

Mmmm... You mean they were quite good there but not in 90s Serie A? I do have this one guy that didn't quite play a position but I'll just monumentally cock up and pick him if you all keep dilly-dallying. Hopefully someone picks him for his actual role though.

 

[Moby]

Not at all. There are a couple of versatile players I'd love picking but have avoided as they didn't play in the position I want them to play in my lineup even though they were quite good there.
They should be picked anytime soon, so will point out then.

As long as he played there for 5 serie a games and was great it's enough.

 

[idmanager]

Mmmm... You mean they were quite good there but not in 90s Serie A? I do have this one guy that didn't quite play a position but I'll just monumentally cock up and pick him if you all keep dilly-dallying. Hopefully someone picks him for his actual role though.

1. Were quite good in Seria A in position (X)
2. Were good in some other position (Y) also in their career but not in Serie A
3. Wanted him in the other position (Y) which I guess I can't do.

Have a feeling we are talking about the same player.

 

[idmanager]

As long as he played there for 5 serie a games and was great it's enough.

I am not quite good with detecting sarcasm, so I am not sure whether to take this seriously :P

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

It should be mandatory that managers indicate the 'peak' relevant to this draft for everyone in playing XI as part if their write up.

2 full continuous seasons should be perfect with 1 full season as bare minimum in line with 40 game pick criteria.

For example Matthaus 1991-92 or Zambrotta 99-00. And discussion should only be centered around that period, how the player played, what he won ec... With career peaks being irrelevant.

And playing position must be as close to what they played in real life during the chosen peak above. None of the 'he played this elsewhere in a different era and so is deemed to have the talent' crap.

 

[Enigma_87]

It should be mandatory that managers indicate the 'peak' relevant to this draft for everyone in playing XI as part if their write up.

2 full continuous seasons should be perfect with 1 full season as bare minimum in line with 40 game pick criteria.

For example Matthaus 1991-92 or Zambrotta 99-00. And discussion should only be centered around that period, how the player played, what he won ec... With career peaks being irrelevant.

And playing position must be as close to what they played in real life during the chosen peak above. None of the 'he played this elsewhere in a different era and so is deemed to have the talent' crap.

The last bit for me is key. For example you can't have Pirlo as a DLP, when in the chosen period he was a trequarista. Apart from that 50-60 games in consecutive seasons is more than enough to determine the level of a player at the time.

Don't think we should make it mandatory per say, but it would be useful for the voters and generally all those who read the game thread to be mentioned, as well if the role matches with the role played in the 90's.

The player level (or peak) to me is more important in 2 consecutive seasons compared to putting 6's,7s displays in 6-7 seasons back to back. We are in fact trying to determine who will win a fantasy game between two sides and not who has players with better careers across the board.

 

[Raees]

​

It should be mandatory that managers indicate the 'peak' relevant to this draft for everyone in playing XI as part if their write up.

2 full continuous seasons should be perfect with 1 full season as bare minimum in line with 40 game pick criteria.

For example Matthaus 1991-92 or Zambrotta 99-00. And discussion should only be centered around that period, how the player played, what he won ec... With career peaks being irrelevant.

And playing position must be as close to what they played in real life during the chosen peak above. None of the 'he played this elsewhere in a different era and so is deemed to have the talent' crap.

Agreed. I personally think 2 season should be minimum (therefore avoiding any criticism of being one hit wonder) and anyone below that threshold ripe for criticism in the matchthread should anyone chose to attack them.

 

[Oaencha]

Everyone in the draft and any regular visitors will be able to coherently tell the difference between player’s forms in different eras.

The problem is going to be some of the non-frequent visitors with less knowledge. I can’t imagine they’re going to go away and do some research before choosing the best team.

 

[2mufc0]

This all should be done in the writeup, not adding any more rules.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

It should be mandatory that managers indicate the 'peak' relevant to this draft for everyone in playing XI as part if their write up.

2 full continuous seasons should be perfect with 1 full season as bare minimum in line with 40 game pick criteria.

For example Matthaus 1991-92 or Zambrotta 99-00. And discussion should only be centered around that period, how the player played, what he won ec... With career peaks being irrelevant.

And playing position must be as close to what they played in real life during the chosen peak above. None of the 'he played this elsewhere in a different era and so is deemed to have the talent' crap.

Bollocks to that. With our early picks we prioritised players with a substantial body of work across the decade. It's a bit late in the day now to try to introduce a rule stopping us from mentioning that, not to mention heavily against the spirit of the draft.

Definition of peak: the length of time my star man spent at the top in the 90s.

And this is highly accurate

 

[crappycraperson]

Where the feck is gio, he was there when it was his turn

 

[Moby]

It's Saturday in Scotland.

 

[The Red Viper]

In a 10 year time-period, 2 odd years is more than enough as sample size.

Longevity obviously is important and matters but its only important when two players are more or less of save level.

 

[antohan]

This all should be done in the writeup, not adding any more rules.

Yes, please don't. Can't be arsed to write or read walls of texts on what is the peak of XI different players and why. Just need further info for a few token ones.

As far as I'm concerned this is a homage draft and will play it as such, can't be arsed discussing this obscure shit.

 

[antohan]

And this is highly accurate

So much so that in the same 90s Serie A draft your co-manager picked "Theo Walcott with a bag of cocaine". He also picked "only gets to 40 games over two stints" Seedorf and "was in 90s Serie A as long as Matthäus" Andreas Brehme in the third round.

Surely if Brehme was a third round pick then Matthäus is OK as first round?

I find it very funny how the only difference between both drafts is who he has got his hands on, yet the "spirit of the draft" put forward is the complete opposite to his roster then.

And then he calls me snake oil merchant

 

[antohan]

Where the feck is gio, he was there when it was his turn

So was Theon and it seems they were after an attacking leftback and ran out of agreed options with Branco gone. He must be frying his brain.

 

[Moby]

So much so that in the same 90s Serie A draft your co-manager picked "Theo Walcott with a bag of cocaine". He also picked "only gets to 40 games over two stints" Seedorf and "was in 90s Serie A as long as Matthäus" Andreas Brehme in the third round.

Surely if Brehme was a third round pick then Matthäus is OK as first round?

I find it very funny how the only difference between both drafts is who he has got his hands on, yet the "spirit of the draft" put forward is the complete opposite to his roster then.

And then he calls me snake oil merchant

I didn't really care about the spirit of the draft back then. My first pick was Nedved.

 

[TheReligion]

Some of you guys are killing what is an exciting draft by taking it far too seriously!

Just enjoy a great era of football and pick your favourites.

 

[2mufc0]

So was Theon and it seems they were after an attacking leftback and ran out of agreed options with Branco gone. He must be frying his brain.

Is he his AM?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Some of you guys are killing what is an exciting draft by taking it far too seriously!

Just enjoy a great era of football and pick your favourites.

If there were as many picks as non-pick comments, this'd be done by now and the games would have started?

 

[2mufc0]

@Gio you have about 25 minutes left.

 

[Enigma_87]

If there were as many picks as non-pick comments, this'd be done by now and the games would have started?

It’s Saturday mate. I barely got out of bed after couple of hours.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

It’s Saturday mate. I barely got out of bed after couple of hours.

I remember those days...... long, long ago...

 

[Gio]

No Serie A draft would be complete without this man:

• EAP - 1. M. van Basten 2. R. Donadoni 3. M. Tassotti 4. D. Stankovic 5. G. Pessotto

• Onenil - 1. R. Baggio 2. A. Costacurta 3. D. Baggio 4. L. Minotti 5. Careca

• harms 1. Ronaldo 2. C. Ferrara 3. P. Montero 4. Y. Djorkaeff 5. C. Seedorf

• Moby/Pat Mustard 1. G. Batistuta 2. F. Cannavaro 3. R. Mancini 4. M. Almeyda 5. E. Chiesa

• MJJ/Sjor 1. A. Del Piero 2. J. Veron 3. Aldair 4. A. Conte 5. S. Katanec

• 2mufc0/Invictus 1. Z. Zidane 2. P. Vierchowod 3. Z. Boban 4. O. Bierhoff 5. J. Angloma

• Lord Sinister 1. P. Maldini 2. G. Signori 3. A. Winter 4. V. Montella 5. M. Torricelli

• Gio 1. F. Baresi 2. G. Weah 3. D. Deschamps 4. P. Sousa 5. R. Sosa 6. G. Giannini

• Enigma/The Red Viper 1. L. Matthäus 2. G. Bergomi 3. G. Vialli 4. R. Ferri 5. Dunga 6. Branco

• idmanager 1. F. Rijkaard 2. E. Davids 3. H. Crespo 4. A. Di Livio 5. R. Ayala 6. M. Salas

• antohan 1. M. Rui Costa 2. J. Kohler 3. A. Benarrivo 4. S. Mihajlovic 5. R. Sensini 6. C. Caniggia

• prath92/Crappy 1. P. Nedved 2. C. Vieri 3. D. Albertini 4. D. Savicevic 5. M. Iuliano 6. P. Ince

• Tuppet 1. R. Gullit 2. A. Brehme 3. L. Blanc 4. T. Hassler 5. R. Voller 6. N. Berti

• Cal? 1. M. Desailly 2. F. Totti 3. J. Klinsmann 4. C. Panucci 5. G Zambrotta 6. A Pirlo

• Oaencha 1. A. Nesta 2. J. Zanetti 3. G. Zola 4. F. Inzaghi 5. V. Candela 6. A. Tacchinardi

• Raees 1. Cafu 2. L. Thuram 3. D. Simeone 4. V. Jugovic 5. F. Couto 6. A. Möller

@Lord SInister