Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Kapardin]

Jose's truly tactical defensive games are neither as boring or as terrible as this. No-one should mistake this as a negative approach because there was no approach in the first place, period. We simply stopped playing football and were hanging on for dear lives. Unable to score, unable to create and unable to defend bar de Gea.

I am a Jose supporter, but he deserves all of the blame for this. Terrible and uninspired management further complicated by an ego clash with Pogba.

The only silver lining I can take from this is that this type of...performance...to use the word lightly, is unsustainable. Things can only look up from here.

 

[Greck]

I don't disagree. What I was saying is I am not sure where the expectations come from. That's who he is, that's how he always worked. Playing pro active football at this level is really difficult, it requires commitment to coaching it and working on it from day one. Unless of course you hold a gigantic individual advantage over your opponent which is usually the case against mid table PL teams. Other than that, you need to use every training session, every game, every transfer window with the idea of getting better and better at your passing and initiative taking. Mourinho has never been prepared to commit to that. He was always ready to compromise when the game was tough or the circumstances were less than ideal so his teams just never develop the same level of fluidity as those who commit to working on it more. The only difference now is that the latter group is made of so many teams whereas 10 years ago it was not so common and most teams were happy playing reactive football. This means his teams's inherent inferiority in that particular aspect gets exposed more often today. If he was going to commit to putting in the amount of work needed to develop effective pro active football, we would have seen its original imprints 12 months ago. We wouldn't have been good enough and might have missed out on the EL as making these things work does require time indeed, but showing where your priorities lie playing profile wise should not require more than a couple of months. Mourinho was never going to work towards that so now it's just about looking at the positives and hopefully when he leaves, he leaves a strong caliber of individual quality in terms of playing personnel for the next manager to work with.

Great post. Going to print, frame and hang in my room. No sarcasm

 

[MackRobinson]

Would you swap our last season with liverpool? Attacking football, porous at the back and winning nothing?

I'd rather win that not win, but that isn't the argument. A manager winning in the past has nothing to do with accessing how his team is playing at the moment. It's just a tired and thoughtless argument that I see parroted around here constantly.

 

[MackRobinson]

Simply put, I'd rather have Mourinho than Klopp, which was my argument. One of them wins things, one doesn't. One has an excellent cup final record, one has an extremely poor one.

Why not analyze what is right in front of you? Last season is last season.

Liverpool have a worse collection of players so it's not crazy they haven't won anything since Klopp has been there. Again this has nothing to do with a specific manager (Pochettino gets a lot of unnecessary flack for this as well), but the constant regurgitation of this argument that a manager that hasn't won anything can't possibly be better than a manager who has.

 

[Hamadovich86]

I'm ready to move on from Mourinho. Not that I want him to get sacked now because it should be down to results and this season is still hanging in the balance except for the PL title.
I have just given up on him replicating the kind of performances we saw with his Madrid team, yes those players are better on paper and of course theres Ronadlo but I really was hoping that Mourinho would instill that lightning speed counter attacking quality. He might be more pragmatic (cowardly) now than he ever was before and I think with the players that we have we should be playing better football. Sevilla shouldnt be playing better football than we do and thats down to coaching and tactics. So now its purely down to results, for me the absolute minimum is CL qualification (our 2nd spot is in serious jeopardy in the coming weeks) and the FA Cup.

 

[redIndianDevil]

That's because of Smalling, who is a box defender. If you play a high line with Smalling then you are asking for trouble. We have played a high line against many teams with other CB combinations; but when Smalling plays we almost always play a low block.

Mourinho is not afraid of a high line; when he has ball players in defense he actually prefers it. But he also adapts his tactics to the team.

Don't remember Smalling doing too badly under LvG where we played a high line against most teams. Plus are you seriously telling me that because of one shitty defender that we are forcing our entire team to defend in a different way? What the feck then we have Blind, Rojo, Lindelof for?

The truth is Mourinho always plays a low block against any half decent team, it is his default style, sure his teams play a high line against piss poor teams in the league but even the likes of Moyes can play that (it's because the said piss poor team don't want possession and play a low block themselves).

 

[kouroux]

I'm ready to move on from Mourinho. Not that I want him to get sacked now because it should be down to results and this season is still hanging in the balance except for the PL title.
I have just given up on him replicating the kind of performances we saw with his Madrid team, yes those players are better on paper and of course theres Ronadlo but I really was hoping that Mourinho would instill that lightning speed counter attacking quality. He might be more pragmatic (cowardly) now than he ever was before and I think with the players that we have we should be playing better football. Sevilla shouldnt be playing better football than we do and thats down to coaching and tactics. So now its purely down to results, for me the absolute minimum is CL qualification (our 2nd spot is in serious jeopardy in the coming weeks) and the FA Cup.

What I feel too to be honest. It's hard watching games knowing it'll be a bore. A little bit more excitment wouldn't go amiss without risking things too much.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

What I feel too to be honest. It's hard watching games knowing it'll be a bore. A little bit more excitment wouldn't go amiss without risking things too much.

I really wish he wasn't the manager but, I realize it would be completely unfair to sack him.

 

[kouroux]

I really wish he wasn't the manager but, I realize it would be completely unfair to sack him.

I agree. I don't want him sacked but at the same time there is no way he'll change so I have no idea what to think.

 

[roonster09]

That's because of Smalling, who is a box defender. If you play a high line with Smalling then you are asking for trouble. We have played a high line against many teams with other CB combinations; but when Smalling plays we almost always play a low block.

Mourinho is not afraid of a high line; when he has ball players in defense he actually prefers it. But he also adapts his tactics to the team.

So many excuses for every player underperforming. Did you even think maybe there is some problem with coach too?

Smalling had no problem playing high line when Van Gaal was in charge, if your coach lack balls to instruct the team to hold the possession, there is not much players can do. One good example is against City last season when Jose made a point not to play passes to midfielders.

 

[ti vu]

So many excuses for every player underperforming. Did you even think maybe there is some problem with coach too?

Smalling had no problem playing high line when Van Gaal was in charge, if your coach lack balls to instruct the team to hold the possession, there is not much players can do. One good example is against City last season when Jose made a point not to play passes to midfielders.

Problem with LVG trying to persist with someone with that kind of ability on ball like Smalling is that the players up in position higher the pitch end up have to go back to become passing option to keep the possession play going. We can criticize our performance now, but we ain't shy away to take a pop at goal. Under LVG we're trying to improve our possession helping out inept passer in the team in vain.

The high line might look positive but in reality it's just playing into opposition hand.

 

[Varun]

So many excuses for every player underperforming. Did you even think maybe there is some problem with coach too?

Smalling had no problem playing high line when Van Gaal was in charge, if your coach lack balls to instruct the team to hold the possession, there is not much players can do. One good example is against City last season when Jose made a point not to play passes to midfielders.

Yeah, weird excuse to make. The foremost requirement to play a high line is pacy CBs and smalling is probably our quickest. Don't see how his lack of ability on the ball is better suited to a high block either because all it results is in us hoofing the ball and the opposition coming right back at us. At least with a high line, he'd have players much closer to him to help him out.

 

[roonster09]

After some time with the teams, playing style or the team style usually reflects coach's mentality or playing style.

City- Complete control, high press with everyone pressing in numbers, attacking, quick ball movement with lot of off the ball movement.

Arsenal - Too much emphasis on passing style, lot of good movement but defensively piss poor.

Liverpool - Quick passing game, all out attack and defensively poor compared to other top teams. Press like a mad men and play high paced game.

Chelsea - Defensively solid and good counter attacking side.

Spurs - Incredibly hard working team, takes the game to opponents, very much attacking team and defensively good. They are good counters too, there is a proper structure in their game.

ManUtd - Defensively solid, lacks cohesion. There is no off the ball movement and team lack courage to hold on to possession which reflects Jose's mentality against decent to good teams. Funnily enough Chelsea are in same boat.

It all started to look good at the start of the season but now it's like watching Van Gaal's team.

Also most teams play a system no matter what and changes rarely, players know when to make runs, when to pass knowing players making those runs. Or even when they change the formation, general idea of play remains same. Not sure we can say that about us.

Like few said, when you watch us play anyone would think we never train how to pass the ball or trained together.

 

[lawliet354]

What I feel too to be honest. It's hard watching games knowing it'll be a bore. A little bit more excitment wouldn't go amiss without risking things too much.

Exactly how I felt, I used to sacrifice my sleep just to watch United game, now sometimes it's hard to even get excited knowing we probably won't even try to attack in an away game

 

[kouroux]

Exactly how I felt, I used to sacrifice my sleep just to watch United game, now sometimes it's hard to even get excited knowing we probably won't even try to attack in an away game

I find myself playing and surfing the web on my phone during games whereas before I used to get angry when anyone bothered me during a United game.

 

[Raees]

Honestly would not be fussed one bit if he wasn't here next season. I find it funny that people assume we should definitely back the manager in his dispute vs Pogba... I don't think he's that popular even though Pogba hasn't pulled up many trees.

One represents entertainment at least and the other increasingly represents barely better than LVG style football.

 

[roonster09]

Problem with LVG trying to persist with someone with that kind of ability on ball like Smalling is that the players up in position higher the pitch end up have to go back to become passing option to keep the possession play going. We can criticize our performance now, but we ain't shy away to take a pop at goal. Under LVG we're trying to improve our possession helping out inept passer in the team in vain.

The high line might look positive but in reality it's just playing into opposition hand.

When you play highline, there is a nearest CM too. Playing deeper means CM had to drop very deep to regain possession and recycle it, highline means all the players are already higher up the pitch and CB just passes to the deeper midfielder. They just make the gap between midfield and defense small by playing compact game.

Yeah, weird excuse to make. The foremost requirement to play a high line is pacy CBs and smalling is probably our quickest. Don't see how his lack of ability on the ball is better suited to a high block either because all it results is in us hoofing the ball and the opposition coming right back at us. At least with a high line, he'd have players much closer to him to help him out.

Exactly. They make the spaces smaller for opponents and also players are closer to each other which is better for CBs to pass the ball. It also means midfielders don't have to drop very deep to get on the ball.

Excuses are getting boring now and they started dragging SAF into this now.

Funnily when Pogba has a decent to good game, people started to call him names and rate his performance as poor to justify Jose's selection.

 

[ti vu]

Yeah, weird excuse to make. The foremost requirement to play a high line is pacy CBs and smalling is probably our quickest. Don't see how his lack of ability on the ball is better suited to a high block either because all it results is in us hoofing the ball and the opposition coming right back at us. At least with a high line, he'd have players much closer to him to help him out.

Ugh. Disagree. Pique, Hummel who are notable ball playing defender in two gung-ho team are considered slow and even weak physically. The ability to read the game on & off the ball, and ball playing ability are requirement.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Honestly would not be fussed one bit if he wasn't here next season. I find it funny that people assume we should definitely back the manager in his dispute vs Pogba... I don't think he's that popular even though Pogba hasn't pulled up many trees.

One represents entertainment at least and the other increasingly represents barely better than LVG style football.

There's also the fact that Mourinho isn't long term. I doubt he stays here past next season honestly.

Pogba has his faults and I know supporting a player over a manager is frowned upon, but I see no reason to put all our eggs in the Mourinho basket.

 

[BigCaine]

After some time with the teams, playing style or the team style usually reflects coach's mentality or playing style.

City- Complete control, high press with everyone pressing in numbers, attacking, quick ball movement with lot of off the ball movement.

Arsenal - Too much emphasis on passing style, lot of good movement but defensively piss poor.

Liverpool - Quick passing game, all out attack and defensively poor compared to other top teams. Press like a mad men and play high paced game.

Chelsea - Defensively solid and good counter attacking side.

Spurs - Incredibly hard working team, takes the game to opponents, very much attacking team and defensively good. They are good counters too, there is a proper structure in their game.

ManUtd - Defensively solid, lacks cohesion. There is no off the ball movement and team lack courage to hold on to possession which reflects Jose's mentality against decent to good teams. Funnily enough Chelsea are in same boat.

It all started to look good at the start of the season but now it's like watching Van Gaal's team.

Also most teams play a system no matter what and changes rarely, players know when to make runs, when to pass knowing players making those runs. Or even when they change the formation, general idea of play remains same. Not sure we can say that about us.

Like few said, when you watch us play anyone would think we never train how to pass the ball or trained together.

How exactly are we defensively solid when DDG has to make multiple breath taking saves in most big matches to keep us in the game?

 

[roonster09]

How exactly are we defensively solid when DDG has to make multiple breath taking saves in most big matches to keep us in the game?

No team defends perfectly to keep out any chances. For most part we are defensively solid. I even said Spurs and Chelsea are defensively solid, Spurs conceded 2 against Rochdale and Chelsea conceded 7 against Bournemouth and Watford.

If defensively solid means not conceding any chance in a game then there aren't any teams like that.

 

[roonster09]

Ugh. Disagree. Pique, Hummel who are notable ball playing defender in two gung-ho team are considered slow and even weak physically. The ability to read the game on & off the ball, and ball playing ability are requirement.

That's also requirement but ball playing is not a must. It's added bonus.

 

[ti vu]

When you play highline, there is a nearest CM too. Playing deeper means CM had to drop very deep to regain possession and recycle it, highline means all the players are already higher up the pitch and CB just passes to the deeper midfielder. They just make the gap between midfield and defense small by playing compact game.



Exactly. They make the spaces smaller for opponents and also players are closer to each other which is better for CBs to pass the ball. It also means midfielders don't have to drop very deep to get on the ball.

Excuses are getting boring now and they started dragging SAF into this now.

Funnily when Pogba has a decent to good game, people started to call him names and rate his performance as poor to justify Jose's selection.

I already explained how we end up play into opposition hand with us keep passing in lower position with even attacker have to go back to be passing option. You don't remember us keeping pass back to DDG? Unlike Mourinho, LVG demand build up from the back so when the ball at DDG's feet, we ended up prone to counter press. LVG ain't very impressed with DDG distribution (he's not bad but not super in distributing) despite DDG saves us point more often than not. We ended up trying to perfect build up play which never complete leading to us become absolute dross creativity wise

 

[Varun]

Ugh. Disagree. Pique, Hummel who are notable ball playing defender in two gung-ho team are considered slow and even weak physically. The ability to read the game on & off the ball, and ball playing ability are requirement.

I wasn't citing requirements based on what the elite players in the position are capable of providing given we don't have anyone close to that level. Was going by what we have and how we can use them to play a more proactive style of football. Given we don't have CBs with quality on the ball, we should try to help them with options, not make them punt it long every chance they get due to the lack of it.

As an aside, I don't think there's any problem with smalling's reading of the game.

 

[ti vu]

That's also requirement but ball playing is not a must. It's added bonus.

If you look at how Klopp and Pep CB purchase, it points to that. Even Laporte is not very physically strong or fast.

I wasn't citing requirements based on what the elite players in the position are capable of providing given we don't have anyone close to that level. Was going by what we have and how we can use them to play a more proactive style of football. Given we don't have CBs with quality on the ball, we should try to help them with options, not make them punt it long every chance they get due to the lack of it.

As an aside, I don't think there's any problem with smalling's reading of the game.

Fair point.

Regarding Smalling, it's opinion matter which I agree to disagree. Smalling's best is when he is to defend a box or man mark. He has been having issue with zonal defense where when there are 2 or more players in his zone, he tends to fail to read the situation and being in between letting the opposition having unchallenged attempt.

 

[roonster09]

I already explained how we end up play into opposition hand with us keep passing in lower position with even attacker have to go back to be passing option. You don't remember us keeping pass back to DDG? Unlike Mourinho, LVG demand build up from the back so when the ball at DDG's feet, we ended up prone to counter press. LVG ain't very impressed with DDG distribution (he's not bad but not super in distributing) despite DDG saves us point more often than not. We ended up trying to perfect build up play which never complete leading to us become absolute dross creativity wise

Well that's what I'm also saying isn't it? It's all to do with coaching and how to make players understand about movement and to be available for passes. Ability to attack and defend as a team, so whole team move as 1 unit.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Even Spurs had a go at the fecking Bernabeau against the current CL champions. Yet people defend this nonesense with 'typical European away performance'.We're second best away to EVERYBODY!

 

[roonster09]

If you look at how Klopp and Pep CB purchase, it points to that. Even Laporte is not very physically strong or fast.
.

Otamendi isn't exactly Pique or Hummels in ball playing, he was closer to smalling than Pique when it comes to passing the ball and now he doesn't have much problems.

For me it's all to do with coaching, if you play aggressive game and on front foot, whole team plays as a team and gives passing options for CBs. If your players are just static, then even the players with very good passing ability can't pass the ball.

Yesterday Pogba had ball when he beat the players in midfield and was looking for passing option. Lukaku just stood on the right wing without making any run, same with Sanchez or Martial on the left wing. Finally Pogba just played safe pass to Sanchez. If it was someone like Sterling or Sane, they would make the run behind the defense, not because of their instinct, because they are coached to do that.

 

[BigCaine]

No team defends perfectly to keep out any chances. For most part we are defensively solid. I even said Spurs and Chelsea are defensively solid, Spurs conceded 2 against Rochdale and Chelsea conceded 7 against Bournemouth and Watford.

If defensively solid means not conceding any chance in a game then there aren't any teams like that.

I wouldn't call Chelsea defensively solid. But my point was our defense goes to sleep on most occasions. Replace Courtois and lloris with any similar level player and there would be minimal impact on their goals conceded stat.

Replace DDG with anyone playing today and we will concede a lot more goals. Only solid defensive performance against big teams this season has been Liverpool, all other games ddg has either saved us or been let down by the defense.

 

[ti vu]

Well that's what I'm also saying isn't it? It's all to do with coaching and how to make players understand about movement and to be available for passes. Ability to attack and defend as a team, so whole team move as 1 unit.

I don't disagree. The point is when it involves Smalling, there is only that much you can do trying to play out from the back. There is reason why Pep Klopp needs the certain CB profile to build the team. You can't have both way trying to cover a player flaw.

 

[roonster09]

I wouldn't call Chelsea defensively solid. But my point was our defense goes to sleep on most occasions. Replace Courtois and lloris with any similar level player and there would be minimal impact on their goals conceded stat.

Replace DDG with anyone playing today and we will concede a lot more goals. Only solid defensive performance against big teams this season has been Liverpool, all other games ddg has either saved us or been let down by the defense.

Big teams will open up defenses. You are looking for perfect defence which doesn't exist. Check Rio and Vida games, we conceded chances back then too and we were defensively solid.

Also playing Romero, we did well isn't it.

 

[ti vu]

Otamendi isn't exactly Pique or Hummels in ball playing, he was closer to smalling than Pique when it comes to passing the ball and now he doesn't have much problems.

For me it's all to do with coaching, if you play aggressive game and on front foot, whole team plays as a team and gives passing options for CBs. If your players are just static, then even the players with very good passing ability can't pass the ball.

Yesterday Pogba had ball when he beat the players in midfield and was looking for passing option. Lukaku just stood on the right wing without making any run, same with Sanchez or Martial on the left wing. Finally Pogba just played safe pass to Sanchez. If it was someone like Sterling or Sane, they would make the run behind the defense, not because of their instinct, because they are coached to do that.

Otamendi is closer to Puyol type. A destroyer. If you believe Otamendi is similar to Smalling then I think it's way off the mark. Otamendi, Puyol may not be as good as the ball playing group, but they are solid passer. By solid passer, I meant they can pick and execute many correct passing decision. Smalling doesn't lose possession much but he can make bad pass, wrong pace, behind his teammate, or pass to his teammate in tight position. Smalling passing is comparable to Managala's. Jones is comparable to that of Otamendi and Puyol....

I know what your eyes talking about regarding the situation. The thing is in Pep system it's clear 3 forwards. Who holds wide, when to start mix run. Yes it's coaching. However we have to look at here that in this scenario, Mata is out of equation since he's too slow to be involving into quick counter. This means we lack another runner to pull the defense open. With less number in an wave attack (a support and 2 forward), either you have to catch he opposition wide open, (completely committed up and leave their defense isolated or being outnumbered), or us having a prime Kaka ( Mkhi looks to have this role but failed miserably) to keep carrying the ball thus drawing defenders toward him before releasing the ball. We don't have that option in this situation. Sevilla defended well.

 

[Varun]

Otamendi isn't exactly Pique or Hummels in ball playing, he was closer to smalling than Pique when it comes to passing the ball and now he doesn't have much problems.

For me it's all to do with coaching, if you play aggressive game and on front foot, whole team plays as a team and gives passing options for CBs. If your players are just static, then even the players with very good passing ability can't pass the ball.

Yesterday Pogba had ball when he beat the players in midfield and was looking for passing option. Lukaku just stood on the right wing without making any run, same with Sanchez or Martial on the left wing. Finally Pogba just played safe pass to Sanchez. If it was someone like Sterling or Sane, they would make the run behind the defense, not because of their instinct, because they are coached to do that.

Our lack of movement infuriates me too. Everyone just waits for the guy on the ball to feed them to feet and take it from there.

 

[roonster09]

I don't disagree. The point is when it involves Smalling, there is only that much you can do trying to play out from the back. There is reason why Pep Klopp needs the certain CB profile to build the team. You can't have both way trying to cover a player flaw.

Playing from the back isn't even an option, it doesn't mean it's Smalling or anyone. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

 

[roonster09]

Otamendi is closer to Puyol type. A destroyer. If you believe Otamendi is similar to

I disagree. Puyol was very good on the ball. Not Pique good but very close to that level.

Our lack of movement infuriates me too. Everyone just waits for the guy on the ball to feed them to feet and take it from there.

Yeah, it was same under Van Gaal too. We have changed coaches, players but still we have same issues. It's like playing for ManUtd is their ultimate goal and once they reach, they will just relax.

 

[ti vu]

I disagree. Puyol was very good on the ball. Not Pique good but very close to that level.



Yeah, it was same under Van Gaal too. We have changed coaches, players but still we have same issues. It's like playing for ManUtd is their ultimate goal and once they reach, they will just relax.

I will agree to disagree here. We can't convince each other wise in the matter. Puyol is behind Rafael Marquez, then Ricardo Carvalho, Pepe, Sergio Ramos... before it's the tier of Nesta, Rio, Pique... in term of ball playing, play making from the back IMO

Playing from the back isn't even an option, it doesn't mean it's Smalling or anyone. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

Your intially point was about Smalling and the high line, which I pointed out how it affected the team.

 

[roonster09]

I will agree to disagree here. We can't convince each other wise in the matter. Puyol is behind Rafael Marquez, then Ricardo Carvalho, Pepe, Sergio Ramos... before it's the tier of Nesta, Rio, Pique... in term of ball playing, play making from the back IMO

Your intially point was about Smalling and the high line, which I pointed out how it affected the team.

I wasn't talking about playmaking from back, it's ability on the ball and ability to not lose and regain even when pressed. Yeah lets agree to disagree.

Re Smalling, when Smalling didn't play or when we played back 3, did you see our CBs passing the ball and trying to build from back? It has nothing to do with Smalling, everything to do with coach.

For example, Chelsea had Terry Cahil both are good on the ball, Matic Fabgreas in the midfield.

ManUtd had Smalling, McNair as CBs, Rooney, Herrera, Fellaini as midfielders.

Our wingers were Young and Mata, Chelsea had Hazard and Oscar.

Chelsea players are better on the ball but ManUtd played high line and dominated possession at Stamford bridge. We have 72% possession. We lost because of ref mistake who ignored foul on our player but we played the game completely in Chelsea half and they played on counter (and did very well).

It's to do with coach and how he sets up. Smalling is limited on the ball but that won't stop aggressive coaches to play high line and coach the team to make players available for passes.

 

[Adnan]

I agree. I don't want him sacked but at the same time there is no way he'll change so I have no idea what to think.

Let's be honest, you and me both would be happy to see him replaced by a attack minded coach...

 

[SwSw]

Our lack of movement infuriates me too. Everyone just waits for the guy on the ball to feed them to feet and take it from there.

And their tendency to gets in each others way too.

I thought is basic common sense to not get so close to your team mate to prevent congestion.

 

[Adisa]

And their tendency to gets in each others way too.

I thought is basic common sense to not get so close to your team mate to prevent congestion.

Fact that it isn't improving shows the coach isn't working on it.