Not only Messi, but I just find the "greast scorer ever" recurrent debate a joke anyway.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Not unequivocally, there's still Puskas, Pele and Müller (the ones I can think of), especially when taking volume and big game scoring into account. Messi too, of course.
So it's definitely a debate, and it could be a fun one if people would be more relaxed about it - but Ronaldo is certainly in that debate as well. His career isn't even finished yet.
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Nice measures to fit your line of thinking. And quite a ridiculous one at the same time. Unequivocally the greatest goalscorer of all time with Messi, along with some other players in history, being very close to him in that department.
Anyway, although I personally prefer Messi, this debate is pretty moot until they finish their careers. Now, it starts every time one of them has a good game.
Ronaldo keeps on scoring, and he was a force when he was here and in his early days in Madrid, but surely nobody can honestly say they watch him these days and think "there's the second best, maybe the best player in the world". He's efficient no doubt, and I have a huge admiration for the way he's (probably) taken professionalism up a notch, but I honestly can't remember the last time I enjoyed watching him play..
I'm not some huge fan of either, I don't really get peoples loyalty to one or 'tuther, but it's clear that Messi is and has been on another level to him for most of this decade, at least to me. In terms of just "knock me down, feck off that's otherworldly" quality though, neither of them really ticks the box. Watching (original) Ronaldo, or more recently Ronaldhino (who I always think gets brushed aside a little in the discussion) was something else.. People get so caught up in what a player achieved, as if that somehow means something (probably it means they had the best advice or the best agent, putting them in the right place at the right time), but I don't remember what players win, I just remember the players. I don't have a clue what Pelé or Maradona won, and I don't really care tbh.
I'm not some huge fan of either, I don't really get peoples loyalty to one or 'tuther, but it's clear that Messi is and has been on another level to him for most of this decade, at least to me. In terms of just "knock me down, feck off that's otherworldly" quality though, neither of them really ticks the box. Watching (original) Ronaldo, or more recently Ronaldhino (who I always think gets brushed aside a little in the discussion) was something else.. People get so caught up in what a player achieved, as if that somehow means something (probably it means they had the best advice or the best agent, putting them in the right place at the right time), but I don't remember what players win, I just remember the players. I don't have a clue what Pelé or Maradona won, and I don't really care tbh.
Especially when they will quickly dismiss or ignore the fact that Messi has 40 goals less in 150 games less, imagine how many goals ahead Messi will possibly be once they have played the same amount career games. I wonder what the exact stats are for career goals and shots taken.
Not only Messi, but I just find the "greast scorer ever" recurrent debate a joke anyway.
People will then respond with “but the football was not as good back then though” because people like to know that they were alive and watching the greatest players.The way to look at it is how good the player was compared to the other players in their era. Gerd Muller, Puskas, Pele, Friedenreich, Bican, Romario, Eusebio, Di Stefano, Ronaldo, Messi. They all have scored insane numbers, but people will automatically say Ron is the greatest scorer because he is here now and doing it.
People are ignorant and just assume that because Ron is doing it now, (in the present, where football is at the best it has ever been) that he must be the greatest scorer.
Ronaldo Haters: "Ronaldo only scores goals and does nothing else in the game!!!"
Yeah... I could've sworn deciding games by scoring decisive goals against the best teams means something!
Yeah... I could've sworn deciding games by scoring decisive goals against the best teams means something!
Is anyone saying that scoring means nothing?. Of course it means something, otherwise there wouldn't be an active Messi vs Ronaldo thread in 2018.
My take;
It’s perfectly understandable to view Cristiano Ronaldo as the greatest player of all time. The stats are other worldly, the accolades are incredible and the performance levels are stunning.
It’s perfectly understandable to view Lionel Messi as the greatest player of all time. The stats are other worldly, the accolades are incredible and the performance levels are stunning.
Stop trying to convince other people that one is better than the other, choose your favourite, enjoy and fill their individual performance threads with praise.
It’s perfectly understandable to view Cristiano Ronaldo as the greatest player of all time. The stats are other worldly, the accolades are incredible and the performance levels are stunning.
It’s perfectly understandable to view Lionel Messi as the greatest player of all time. The stats are other worldly, the accolades are incredible and the performance levels are stunning.
Stop trying to convince other people that one is better than the other, choose your favourite, enjoy and fill their individual performance threads with praise.
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This debate (at least the one I am taking on) is with who people tho think Ronaldo is a considerable level behind Messi. That line of thinking just makes no sense to me and you would have to just be a highlight reel fan to believe that. You can say Messi is better but to say there is no comparison or that Ronaldo isn't even top 10 is ridiculous.
Also, Zidane, bald Ronaldo, Ronaldinho being thrown in the same category as Ronaldo is silly. The achievements he has over them is not even comparable.
I agree with this completely which is why I say if on a scale of 1 out of 10 Ronaldo to me is a 10 then Messi is a 9.9 snd I have stated my reasons why.
Ok for one in that era where you say Ronaldo was better was in the same era as arguably the greatest team or one of the greatest teams of all time along with Pep Guardiola. All those players were in their prime and were far superior to Madrid. Secondly you claim a few years ago they were basically even in goals in the KO round in a time where Messi had a far superior team! Now Ronaldo still does not have the better team as evidence by Barcelona steam rolling the league yet he is significantly better in the grandest stage of the CL. Its not just the goals Ronaldo IS NOT just goals and who says that does not know football AND even then you are saying that Messi is in the GOAT talk because he contributes in midfield great well last time I checked Goals win games CLUTCH goals win games. The bigger the occasion the better Ronaldo plays. Does that not count as well? Is the capability to have the biggest drive and passion for the game to improve day in day out even at the age of 33. Does that not count? Or the fact that Ronaldo morphed his game 3x to continuously get even better then before almost as if he is evolving, Does that not count? All I see is Messi fans try to downgrade Ronaldo when comparing him to Messi saying oh he only scores ( though he has almost the same assists as Messi career wise) or that he does not impact the game in any other way and its truly baffling. As I said before in a time where people claim this is 'Messi era" Ronaldo has been on par and is currently bettering Messi as we speak. Also stats is football accolades is football what I mean by that is the ability to turn stats records and feats into major trophies for your team that speaks volumes. Lastly if Ronaldo has quit his country after missing an important penalty for them the same way Messi did Ronaldo would be shunned and ridiculed but since its Messi its ok. What Messi did was one of the softest things I have seen for someone who people claim to be head and shoulders better then Messi. Messi will forever have more natural talent then Ronaldo but does that make him a better player? no it does not if that was the case a player like Quaresma would be better then most players now a days.
Has Messi won back to back CL even when he has one of the best teams ever? Nope
Has Messi won a Major trophy for Argentina? Nope
If you believe Messi is better fair play everyone gets an opinion but to say Ronaldo isn't in the same room as Messi is utterly Ridiculous considering Messi has been competing level to level with him his whole career and not blowing him away.
I see where you're coming from and can't really disagree. Funny thing is that I also understand the counter argument that he is clearly behind Messi. I just think he is such a one off in terms of how much he achieved with his style and profile. I think football fans throughout history are used to the greats being flair players, players with the balance, close ball control, dribbling ability and just that overall aesthetic touch. Best, Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldinho and Brazilian Ronaldo had that about them. Then comes Cristiano Ronaldo and he, at least the version of the second half of his career, and he is a totally different profile to those. He plays like a type of players who were generally considered world class but never best of all times, but he does it with a level of efficiency that is unparalleled. I think this confuses a lot of football fans; one the one hand, his numbers, athletic attributes, consistency and as of late, decisiveness in the big games are impossible to ignore. But on the other hand, he just doesn't "look" like what we have been used to consider the best players of all times. I myself think it's indisputable that he is an all time great but when it comes to comparing him to the aforementioned players, I just can't make up my mind.
What confuses people is unfair comparisons. Ronaldo in his prime was exceptional in all things flair. For us and for Madrid. Current Ronaldo is playing multiple levels above Best or Cruyff at the same age. Essentially calling Ronaldo at 33 to be worse than Best at 23 would be wrong. What makes him better than most of those players is the fact that he remains one of the best even at an age where you wouldn’t expect him to be.
For me Cristiano has to be entering top 5/6 of all time and for sure has left behind the likes of Ronaldinho and Zidane and even R9. As much as I love R9, Cristiano sheer consistency and continued ability to impact football matches at the highest level and his mentality pushes him higher up the ladder for me. Guys an absolute animal.
I see a lot of words and rhetoric, but actually quite a small part of this post talks about football, and only about what you want to talk about.
Was Messi so good in stats because Barcelona had the best team, or had we the best team because Messi played there?
Pep Guardiola, look at his continental success with Bayern and City, not a shadow of what he achieved in Barcelona and Bayern were no slouch, he took a team that won the treble, improved the roster, and never managed to reach a UCL final with them, Messi single-handedly destroyed his team in 10 minutes on his way to the 2nd treble.
Maybe it was easier for Xavi, Iniesta and Guardiola to win titles with Messi in his team, am I crazy for thinking that?
Who were at Real Madrid in that era? Mourinho, regarded as the best coach of the 21st century, Casillas, Ramos, Albiol, Arbeloa, Xabi Alonso, Khedira, Ozil (world cup winners), legends like Pepe, Di Maria, Carvalho, Marcelo, Higuain, Benzema...
You're talking like they were vastly inferior, they fought Barcelona tooth and nail, and some times it was Messi the one who edged Barcelona for the win, not Xavi or Iniesta's fault.
You mean the guys that can't be arsed to care about the league when they win one?, that Kroos, Modric, Marcelo, Carvajal, Ramos or Bale can't hold a candle to Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Abidal, Alves or Villa?.
Maybe if he was "clutch" 30 times a year, instead of 10, his team would have more leagues than Barcelona at this point?, or they wouldn't be 15 points behind, because as far as I know, the same guys that have won 3 of the last 4 UCL, are the ones that play in the league, you can't be serious that he's the GOAT because he shines in the Champions League and then checks out on the league.
If you use the UCL performances to rate who's the best player overall, then you can't back out and say "they're the best team because they win the league" when a team wins 3 UCL titles in 4 years, it doesn't work that way, either you're the best, or you're not the best and just scapegoating.
How many back to back CL has Messi? The same amount of trebles Ronaldo has, I can't see how that turns the balance in one way or the other
Has Messi won a major trophy for Argentina? No, but he led them to 3 international finals, Ronaldo lead Portugal to one and barely played the final, the reason he's better is because Eder scored what Higuain failed? Again, I can't seem to know how this turns the table in favor of Ronaldo.
Ronaldo morphed three times? Well, same as the Argentinian guy here, from wing player, to false 9, and now to a more classic "10", both of them have shown to be smart enough to adapt their play to what the team needs from them.
Clutch goals? Bigger occasion? It's a 10 season rivalry, they have claims to be superior to eachother in any number of games, where was Ronaldo in the 2009 UCL final? Where was he in the 2011 semis? Messi beat Ronaldo, same way Ronnie beat Messi in the 2011 Cup final or other bunch of times in the league or Super Cup, they're both clutch players, and known to rise in the bigger stage, again, how do you rate them here, who did it most times? Who has done it most recently?. That's arbitrary if you're comparing their whole careers.
I'm not the one downgrading Ronaldo, I'm calling a spade a spade, been doing it for years, even "defended" him in his thread months ago saying that he did more than just score for Real Madrid, he's a smart player, he plays his game to perfection and his seemingly "lackluster" goals sometimes come from a lot of off the ball smarts and work.
But for me, that's not enough to bring him over Messi, because Leo has shown that he can be lethal and smart at the space too if he has the luxury of not being involved in the build up. And he has more dimensions to his game than Ronaldo.
Leo is that good because he's better than Ronaldo, is not that Ronaldo is not that good because he's not Leo Messi, get what I mean
Because, again, it's not as simple as you're trying to sell us.
Messi was criticized in Argentina for years (pecho frio, you know about that?) because he simply couldn't replicate his Barcelona level with Argentina, they expected the guy who scored 73 goals in 60 games (let those numbers sink in your head) to put on the albiceleste and do the same, if he scored 200 games in four seasons, why was he scoring 11 in 4 years for them?.
So, the inquisition started, Portugal don't have a Maradona to compare Cristiano to, you have Eusebio, while one of the greatest, not a deity status like Diego has in Argentina, and a lot of journalists in Argentina literally get money for praising Diego, so to keep Maradona in heaven, they had to bash Messi, "Mercenario", "Pecho Frio", "Go back to Barcelona", "Can't tie Diego's shoes" and all that kind of beautiful things were said to him for years.
Until the Copa America happened, and he got enough of being hated on when he was already puting his career at risk to play for Argentina (from 2013 to 2016 most of his injuries were related to the amount of games he had to play, focusing on the World Cup and the Copa) and tried to finish with all that drama, what's there for a guy like him to play for a country that doesn't value you because you're not a drug-addict, drunken, women beater that "happened" to win a World Cup?.
You're going to sell me that Cristiano "I'm sad" Ronaldo, the guy who has argued against his own fanbase in Madrid and that wasn't happy about not being the best paid player in the world two months ago, would't send Portugal to hell if half the country was saying he doesn't want to play with Portugal, and that he'd never be half the player Eusebio was?.
Sorry, I don't buy it. If there's something where Ronaldo beats Messi by a long mile is in his desire to be appreciated, he wouldn't take not even an inch less of the abuse that Messi took from Argentina in his career
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Are you seriously suggesting that Ronaldo hasn't endured abuse like Messi? I mean, that's not biased, that's downright stupidity. Messi is just an unbelievable talent but to suggest that Messi endured worse abuse than Ronaldo, universally hated for preening and preciousness makes you an amoeba. Sorry man.
Messi is definitely better than Ronaldo, the only people who think otherwise are Ronaldo, and Madrid and Portuguese fans.
Messi is involved in just about everything for Barca, Ronaldo waits in the box (and yes, he has good movement in the box) for a peach of a pass to come to him.
Messi is involved in just about everything for Barca, Ronaldo waits in the box (and yes, he has good movement in the box) for a peach of a pass to come to him.
From his own people?. No, never, the Portuguese fans may have been harsh with Ronaldo sometimes, but never to the point of part of them having a hate boner for him, not to my knowledge.
Being hated by your rivals is fuel to your motivation, it might break some people, but if you're one of the greatest competitors ever you can manage, but when you're playing for a country, and part of the country rejects you and is against you, that's a tough pill to swallow
"60% of a poll wanted Maradona to play Palermo instead of Messi"
https://blogs.20minutos.es/el_10_futbol/2009/10/14/el-60-argentina-quiere-messi/
Tevez, a guy who was said to be banned from Argentina because Messi didn't want him here
"If I were Messi and had to listen to the criticism he has had, I would not return. He has to really love the Argentine shirt to keep coming back. This has to hurt [Messi] because it also hurts his family.
"You can criticise a player who didn't play well or who wasn't fit for a match but you can't say he doesn't step up or say awful things outside of football about him as they have, you just can't. As a journalist, you have to give a message each day. You can be in agreement or not, you can like a player or not like him, but you can't kill him like that."
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/2015/8/22/9190157/tevez-defends-messi-argentina
Mascherano
"I couldn’t bear to be Messi. He always comes, including when he’s about to become a father.
"The Copa América? The criticisms hurt us but you have to learn to accept them.
Messi is still coming. His girlfriend is about to give birth. I couldn’t be him. You have to be special to be like Messi."
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/2015/9/2/9243015/mascherano-i-would-hate-to-be-messi-interview
So, after taking shit for years, in the heat of the moment he says he's done with the team, and that's fuel to throw at him for the rest of his life?. Nice to know it.
Edit: And we're talking of a guy that left Argentina being 13 years/old due to illness, and still chose that country to play for instead of Spain, it adds another layer to the whole thing when his country was blaming him for everything, and his teammates and lifelong friends like Pique or Fabregas were reaping constant success with Spain.
It had to make it harder for him to hear people tell him to stay in Barcelona or that he probably regretted not playing for Spain
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Errmm.. OK.. I have no problem with what Messi did by retiring and coming out of retirement. I think Argies who are abusing him are idiots, because he's their best shot at glory. I used to love Ariel Ortega but he had acknowledged that he suffered due to Maradona comparisons. I'm not sure why Argies do it, but I've given up with Argentina for some time now. But I definitely disagree with these two lines.
Sorry, I don't buy it. If there's something where Ronaldo beats Messi by a long mile is in his desire to be appreciated, he wouldn't take not even an inch less of the abuse that Messi took from Argentina in his career
Every United fan knows how Ronaldo took everything that was thrown at him. Criticisms, boos, tackles, taunts and shut them up for good. You are assuming that he can only abuse from rival fans and will not tolerate abuse from his own fans. Madrid fans have booed him mercilessly, haven't they? He has shown that he can take it and always comes back harder. It's hypothetical with national team fans because Portuguese fans won't hate him, but if it were to happen, I'd definitely back Ronaldo to shut them up by performing well instead of retiring. Again, it's a hypothetical argument and we can only guess the outcome.
Sorry, I don't buy it. If there's something where Ronaldo beats Messi by a long mile is in his desire to be appreciated, he wouldn't take not even an inch less of the abuse that Messi took from Argentina in his career
Every United fan knows how Ronaldo took everything that was thrown at him. Criticisms, boos, tackles, taunts and shut them up for good. You are assuming that he can only abuse from rival fans and will not tolerate abuse from his own fans. Madrid fans have booed him mercilessly, haven't they? He has shown that he can take it and always comes back harder. It's hypothetical with national team fans because Portuguese fans won't hate him, but if it were to happen, I'd definitely back Ronaldo to shut them up by performing well instead of retiring. Again, it's a hypothetical argument and we can only guess the outcome.
So at club level is there anyone better than Messi and Ronaldo? They are different players and everyone will have their favorite but is there an argument against them as the greatest players of all time? Club football has been vastly superior to the international game over the last 12-15 years imo, I cant think of any other players better than those two at that level.
R9 is my favorite player of all time and I love Ronaldinho but they just didnt have the consistency. Zidane was a brilliant player but hes not as good as those two and I watched him play in his prime. Maradona I didnt watch much of and none of Pele but with the level of athleticism we have today you wonder how great they would be in this era.
R9 is my favorite player of all time and I love Ronaldinho but they just didnt have the consistency. Zidane was a brilliant player but hes not as good as those two and I watched him play in his prime. Maradona I didnt watch much of and none of Pele but with the level of athleticism we have today you wonder how great they would be in this era.
You have a point in some things, but Messi already tried it with Argentina, he was being criticized back in 2009, when things go well then yeah, that's good, when things go badly, he's the main culprit.
He took it for years, he even improved with Argentina maybe due to it like you say Ronaldo would do (his 2012 was remarkable, for example), but after all, that never goes away. Losing his 4th final, 3th in consecutive years while journalists messed with him and even his family, all led to the game vs Chile, a breaking point, so he cracked for a moment. But this wasn't new, he was rumoured to be thinking about retiring or taking a break after 2015.
That's why I said using that against him is just a low class blow, he's shown he has as much desire in him as anyone, he was wrote off already back in 2013, then with the Neymar arrival, after past season... and he always comes back. So, he missed a penalty vs Chelsea and cried? 3 years later he was winning another treble. He was disliked in his country and being laughed at? He took Argentina to a World Cup final after 24 years.
No they were the best team because they were THAT good and the style they played was never seen before as they did it and that is also because of a phenomenal coach like Pep. Second pep has done a phenomenal job at every club he has been at you say he never returned to a CL final again and that he did with Messi. Well of course he had fecking Lionel Messi on his side one of the greatest ever. Second I never said he only does it in the CL I'm saying that is the hardest competition in the world and he owns it. Thirdly to completely debunk the ""Ronaldo is only clutch 10x in a season in la liga" Ronaldo has bashed many records in Spain and those 10 times you say could be simply on Barcelona because he is there nightmare all the time always scores on them and in fact holds a record vs them. Also ask Atletico, Valencia and Sevilla how they feel about him. Lastly Ronaldo has received 10x the abuse Messi has and that is not even a debate. He has received hate from the Argentine people and thats it. He cant take it and quits? grow up you get paid millions and are the "face" of soccer. Maybe he would not be booed if he actually performed in the national team jersey when you look at the constant quality around him. You blame Higuain? give me a break Portugal would kill for a striker of his caliber we have fecking Eder and won and previously Postiga. Everyone tries to "baby" Messi " oh no he's being bood". You say Messi has evolved like Ronaldo has ? False Messi has played the same for the past 15 years regardless of position. I understand you are a Barcelona fan and you want to protect your king but many of what you are saying is nonsense. I don't bash Messi either nothing but respect for him he is a legend but Ronaldo ALWAYS gets downsized for his achievements though he is and has always been head to head with Messi. Also of course Messi has been clutch but he has been known to freeze up the bigger the stage or moment. Ronaldo has been to 2 finals with Portugal not 3 and when he was 19 was a key part in why they even went to the finals even started the final vs Greece. I love talking about football and calling it how I see it it is my passion but many people are blinded by there pure admiration for a player I remember seeing people say Messi was better because he was humble and Ronaldo arrogant which is the dumbest thing I have heard. Then you also have the debate of Messi never leaving Barcelona to the Premier League which is the hardest league in the world. To end let me say that the Barcelona of the Pep years were head and shoulder above all else period and that is not just because Messi was there him being there made it even better as he is one of the Top 5 of all time but that team in general was incredible. Every debate is the same it gets boring " Messi does it all" " Ronaldo only scores goals" "Penaldo"( even though Messi cant score penaltys well at all).
This has nothing to do with what I've posted.
All I will say is that IF Ronaldo has retired the same way Messi did I would guarantee we would never hear the end of it from Messi fans and the media that I would bet everything I own on.
There few ways of looking at it:
Career performance wise: tie
Messi>Ronaldo in La Liga (GOAT level)
Ronaldo>Messi in CL (GOAT level)
Or
Individual achievement wise: tie
Messi -> 5 Ballon D’or (GOAT level)
Ronaldo -> 5 Ballon D’or (GOAT level)
Or
Trophy wise: tie
Messi -> league x8, cup x5, CL x4, international x0 (GOAT level)
Ronaldo -> league x5, cup x5, CL x4, international x1 (GOAT level)
Or
Stat wise: tie
Messi = Ronaldo (both GOAT level)
in terms of overall end products (goals+assist)
Or
Opinion wise: Messi?
Messi>Ronaldo (Messi at GOAT level)
in terms of their footballing/performance on pitch
(Given that dribbling, passing, creativity > heading, penalty, determination)
Career performance wise: tie
Messi>Ronaldo in La Liga (GOAT level)
Ronaldo>Messi in CL (GOAT level)
Or
Individual achievement wise: tie
Messi -> 5 Ballon D’or (GOAT level)
Ronaldo -> 5 Ballon D’or (GOAT level)
Or
Trophy wise: tie
Messi -> league x8, cup x5, CL x4, international x0 (GOAT level)
Ronaldo -> league x5, cup x5, CL x4, international x1 (GOAT level)
Or
Stat wise: tie
Messi = Ronaldo (both GOAT level)
in terms of overall end products (goals+assist)
Or
Opinion wise: Messi?
Messi>Ronaldo (Messi at GOAT level)
in terms of their footballing/performance on pitch
(Given that dribbling, passing, creativity > heading, penalty, determination)
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At this moment in time it's like comparing Gerd Muller to Cruyff. Literally all he does is finish off moves his team creates. He's a great striker but as an overall player there simply is no comparison. All he has over Messi is his aerial threat. The rest there is no contest.
Are you Messi?
You are wrong if you think he was just a goal scorer all his career.
It is silly tbh. When all stats(even the weird xg ones) state that Cristiano to not superior to Messi in goal scoring department.
His airtime for that first goal yesterday was impressive. Would've been a good NBA player I think.
I don't like the guy, but dayum son, the kid knows how to head it home.
I don't like the guy, but dayum son, the kid knows how to head it home.
Who is going to win Ballon D’or 2018?
So far this season:
Messi so far scored 32 goals in 41 games
-Very high chance will win the La Liga
-Currently last 16 in CL (may win)
-Will play in WC finals (probably won’t win)
Ronaldo so far scored 31 goals in 33 games
-Probably will finish 3rd in the league
-Currently in quarter finals in CL (may win)
-Will play in WC finals (probably won’t win)
So far this season:
Messi so far scored 32 goals in 41 games
-Very high chance will win the La Liga
-Currently last 16 in CL (may win)
-Will play in WC finals (probably won’t win)
Ronaldo so far scored 31 goals in 33 games
-Probably will finish 3rd in the league
-Currently in quarter finals in CL (may win)
-Will play in WC finals (probably won’t win)
People still arguing and bickering over these two players
After all these years, probably no one will change the other one's mind about who is the best as everyone uses the data and stats to serve their agenda in making their case.
Bottom line is both are magnificent players and in my opinion the best players to have ever played football.
After all these years, probably no one will change the other one's mind about who is the best as everyone uses the data and stats to serve their agenda in making their case.
Bottom line is both are magnificent players and in my opinion the best players to have ever played football.
this time who will win the WC will be the new Balòn D'or, imho.
Calling him a great striker is underrating him. He's an exceptional striker on form. Otherwise, agree totally. Messi is at the very least, close to Ronaldo when it comes to goalscoring. And the rest...
the most impressive thing about Messi is how hard he works for his goals these days, not the numbers itself. matching and eclipsing Ronaldo's numbers doesn't excite me anymore. at least not after that 2011-2012 season. what impresses me now is how he still manages to score all those goals after watching him come for ball on the center so often and sometimes not even having a single touch in opponent's penalty area. it was painful to watch him against Atletico and Chelsea given their setup against Barca, yet he found a way to decide both matches.
if he suddenly decided to wait for perfect chances and not bother with build up anymore, he most likely woudn't have scored all those goals because current Barca really doesn't create much without him. it sounds impressive, but I actually think it's a problem when your best goalscorer is also your best creator and assist provider. you can't really expect every team to have defender that will make mistake like Christiansen or hope Messi will score from every free kick. Barca had nothing bar posession in both those games and it will be the same against other top teams if they manage to shut Messi down and limit them on 2 shots on target again.
if he suddenly decided to wait for perfect chances and not bother with build up anymore, he most likely woudn't have scored all those goals because current Barca really doesn't create much without him. it sounds impressive, but I actually think it's a problem when your best goalscorer is also your best creator and assist provider. you can't really expect every team to have defender that will make mistake like Christiansen or hope Messi will score from every free kick. Barca had nothing bar posession in both those games and it will be the same against other top teams if they manage to shut Messi down and limit them on 2 shots on target again.
agree and I think this is the reason why I feel Barca will fail in Ucl.
Hence why I said "at this moment in time". He is at the end of moves.
I hope they do a commercial one day together that epitomizes them both.
Messi picks up the ball deep, slaloms last 3 or 4 challenges, cuts inside and then lofts it to the back post for a towering Ronaldo header.
Messi picks up the ball deep, slaloms last 3 or 4 challenges, cuts inside and then lofts it to the back post for a towering Ronaldo header.
This is as close as both parts in this debate will come to agree imo.
I only have two gripes with that, Ronaldo being better than Messi at UCL because his scoring exploded after his peak on a dominant team (but I can get people thinking that, even if I don't share it) and the international part, it's not down to Ronaldo or Messi that Portugal has 1 title over Argentina in this era, one played 4 finals, lost the 4, the other got injured at the start of one, had minor relevance to his team winning it, so I'd give an edge to Messi in trophies due to them playing in the same league and Leo winning more titles.
Beyond that, you basically covered everything in a single, tidy post, I'll come back here the next time I read something egregious against Leo
Specifically for the people who have seen both play live on more than one occasion, what did you notice and who did you prefer and why?
Ronaldo
I was at arguably his best performance for United in the 7-1 game v Roma. Had you on the edge of your seat all game (as he did for a fair few games that season) and was a joy to see in full flight. Have seen him for Madrid a few times in La Liga and CL and there’s always that exciting air of expectation when he gets the ball and starts running. One thing you notice is he throws A LOT of strops, he’s always watching the ball and if a defender makes a mistake Ronaldo usually shakes his head or something. I didn’t like that.
Messi
I’ve been fortunate enough to be at 2 el Classico’s, one of which Messi was outrageous and the other where mesut Ozil was the best player on the park by far. Have seen him against Celtic and united a few times, and maybe half a dozen times in run of the mill La Liga games. He keeps you on the edge of your seat, but more often than not you end up putting your hands behind your head in disbelief at what you’ve just seen. It’s very clear watching him live that his teammates make every pass with the intention of giving the ball to messi at the earliest opportunity. His change of direction defies logic when you see it up close, and the passes he plays are the ones you imagine in your head when you see the other players making runs. One thing I don’t like is he almost always asks for a yellow card every time he’s fouled.
Having seen them on the same field at the same time several times, it’s very clear to me who the players on the field believe to be the better player.
For Ronaldo, you cheer and enjoy and it’s all pretty much expected, and with Messi you kind of just spend a lot of time acting like bobby Robson when he saw brazilian Ronaldo score that goal v compostela.
Would be keen to hear some other people’s opinions who’ve been fortunate enough to see both.
Ronaldo
I was at arguably his best performance for United in the 7-1 game v Roma. Had you on the edge of your seat all game (as he did for a fair few games that season) and was a joy to see in full flight. Have seen him for Madrid a few times in La Liga and CL and there’s always that exciting air of expectation when he gets the ball and starts running. One thing you notice is he throws A LOT of strops, he’s always watching the ball and if a defender makes a mistake Ronaldo usually shakes his head or something. I didn’t like that.
Messi
I’ve been fortunate enough to be at 2 el Classico’s, one of which Messi was outrageous and the other where mesut Ozil was the best player on the park by far. Have seen him against Celtic and united a few times, and maybe half a dozen times in run of the mill La Liga games. He keeps you on the edge of your seat, but more often than not you end up putting your hands behind your head in disbelief at what you’ve just seen. It’s very clear watching him live that his teammates make every pass with the intention of giving the ball to messi at the earliest opportunity. His change of direction defies logic when you see it up close, and the passes he plays are the ones you imagine in your head when you see the other players making runs. One thing I don’t like is he almost always asks for a yellow card every time he’s fouled.
Having seen them on the same field at the same time several times, it’s very clear to me who the players on the field believe to be the better player.
For Ronaldo, you cheer and enjoy and it’s all pretty much expected, and with Messi you kind of just spend a lot of time acting like bobby Robson when he saw brazilian Ronaldo score that goal v compostela.
Would be keen to hear some other people’s opinions who’ve been fortunate enough to see both.
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