Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Peyroteo]

It's the same as watching on TV for me, the main difference in watching football live is judging the tactics of a whole team and seeing how they move as a group rather than individual performances. Never really noticed anything in particular about any player that I didn't notice by watching them on TV.

 

[Daysleeper]

Specifically for the people who have seen both play live on more than one occasion, what did you notice and who did you prefer and why?

Ronaldo

I was at arguably his best performance for United in the 7-1 game v Roma. Had you on the edge of your seat all game (as he did for a fair few games that season) and was a joy to see in full flight. Have seen him for Madrid a few times in La Liga and CL and there’s always that exciting air of expectation when he gets the ball and starts running. One thing you notice is he throws A LOT of strops, he’s always watching the ball and if a defender makes a mistake Ronaldo usually shakes his head or something. I didn’t like that.

Messi

I’ve been fortunate enough to be at 2 el Classico’s, one of which Messi was outrageous and the other where mesut Ozil was the best player on the park by far. Have seen him against Celtic and united a few times, and maybe half a dozen times in run of the mill La Liga games. He keeps you on the edge of your seat, but more often than not you end up putting your hands behind your head in disbelief at what you’ve just seen. It’s very clear watching him live that his teammates make every pass with the intention of giving the ball to messi at the earliest opportunity. His change of direction defies logic when you see it up close, and the passes he plays are the ones you imagine in your head when you see the other players making runs. One thing I don’t like is he almost always asks for a yellow card every time he’s fouled.


Having seen them on the same field at the same time several times, it’s very clear to me who the players on the field believe to be the better player.

For Ronaldo, you cheer and enjoy and it’s all pretty much expected, and with Messi you kind of just spend a lot of time acting like bobby Robson when he saw brazilian Ronaldo score that goal v compostela.

Would be keen to hear some other people’s opinions who’ve been fortunate enough to see both.

So jealous you've been to multiple Clasico's.

Seeing Messi in person is probably something you'll never forget.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

So jealous you've been to multiple Clasico's.

Seeing Messi in person is probably something you'll never forget.

Well the first time I saw him at the nou Camp wasn’t memorable at all, he had arguable his worst performance of his Barcelona career and missed a penalty in the 93rd minute and the game finished 0-0 for the first time at camp nou in 8 years.

Next time though...

 

[carvajal]

Well the first time I saw him at the nou Camp wasn’t memorable at all, he had arguable his worst performance of his Barcelona career and missed a penalty in the 93rd minute and the game finished 0-0 for the first time at camp nou in 8 years.

Next time though...

In 8 years! really lucky

 

[Deleted member 101472]

In 8 years! really lucky

When De Gea was still a teenager this man was doing this!

 

[wr8_utd]

So jealous you've been to multiple Clasico's.

Seeing Messi in person is probably something you'll never forget.

It was absolutely and utterly mesmerizing watching him. I saw him away at Betis this season and he was doing things that even had the Betis fans oohing and aahing and applauding.
I remember heading out of the stadium and overhearing a bunch of Betis fans debating Ronaldo vs Messi. They said what most of us would agree to, Ronaldo is no real fun to watch, is not impressive in his gameplay but gets the goals somehow. Messi is a magician.

 

[wr8_utd]

this time who will win the WC will be the new Balòn D'or, imho.

Don't think either will come close to winning the WC really.

 

[charlton66]

It was absolutely and utterly mesmerizing watching him. I saw him away at Betis this season and he was doing things that even had the Betis fans oohing and aahing and applauding.
I remember heading out of the stadium and overhearing a bunch of Betis fans debating Ronaldo vs Messi. They said what most of us would agree to, Ronaldo is no real fun to watch, is not impressive in his gameplay but gets the goals somehow. Messi is a magician.

That's it in a nutshell. Forget this magician, this artist, this genius etc... Ronaldo is just a footballer, who scores goals - something that is at the end of the day the entire point of what he's trying to accomplish. I've never come across an athlete in any sport who gets so much abuse for being the best at something that he's actually trying to be the best at.

 

[redchamp]

That's it in a nutshell. Forget this magician, this artist, this genius etc... Ronaldo is just a footballer, who scores goals - something that is at the end of the day the entire point of what he's trying to accomplish. I've never come across an athlete in any sport who gets so much abuse for being the best at something that he's actually trying to be the best at.

This is super important. When people discuss who is the best, I think they bring to it their own definition of the word 'best'. You might prefer Messi, because he's better at dribbling, being a magician etc. But when it comes to purely and simply winning a football match, I'd rather have Ronaldo. And btw, it's so reductionist and does a huge disservice to Ronaldo to conclude his game is only goals, he's capable of plenty of magic himself, it's just that he's found the most direct way of winning a football match and trophies is to ruthlessly finish almost every single chance - that's not to say he isn't a huge creative outlet as well, despite media having you believe otherwise - think he leads all-time CL assists doesn't he?

 

[Bole Top]

except no one downplays Ronaldo's goalscoring, that's a myth. the thing is, when two players are equally good at one thing, like scoring goals in this case, then you compare them at other some aspects of the game and to vast majority of people Ronaldo isn't as impressive at those things like Messi is and that's really the whole point.

Ronaldo isn't being compared to Iniesta, he's being compared to man who holds a record for most la liga goals in a single season and is top scorer in la liga history, a man who holds a record for most el clasico goals, a man who holds a record for most goals during a single season in Europe + most goals during the calendar year.

that's why Ronaldo's stats don't really impress those who see Messi as superior player, because they already witnessed the same goalscoring ability from Messi.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

You say this and then you do it yourself in the sentence right after.

He’s not downplaying it at all.

 

[Bole Top]

You say this and then you do it yourself in the sentence right after.

fair enough, but I don't see it as downplaying. for me, it's like you compare LeBron and Jordan and you keep pointing that LeBron is tall. well, no shit, they're both tall, there's no need for pointing such obvious things.

Ronaldo is arguably the best goalscorer ever. the problem is, Messi is also arguably the best goalscorer ever. so what do we do now? we compare them in other aspects of the game. simple.

 

[Daysleeper]

This is super important. When people discuss who is the best, I think they bring to it their own definition of the word 'best'. You might prefer Messi, because he's better at dribbling, being a magician etc. But when it comes to purely and simply winning a football match, I'd rather have Ronaldo. And btw, it's so reductionist and does a huge disservice to Ronaldo to conclude his game is only goals, he's capable of plenty of magic himself, it's just that he's found the most direct way of winning a football match and trophies is to ruthlessly finish almost every single chance - that's not to say he isn't a huge creative outlet as well, despite media having you believe otherwise - think he leads all-time CL assists doesn't he?

Sorry but Messi has been more instrumental to Barca winning games and scoring goals when the team was tied or needed to go ahead than Ronaldo has.

Messi is the way to go, I think 90% of the managers in the world would take Messi over Ronaldo.

The way I see it it's anything but simple when you look at it that way. "Messi scores about as much as Ronaldo but he dribbles and creates more therefore he's a better player" This is how it usually goes and I completely disagree with it, football doesn't work like that and it's not that simple.

Ronaldo is not as good of a dribbler as Messi, he's not as good of a passer and he's not as good on the ball but he's still very good at it and all of the rest makes up for that gap imo. The way he moves without the ball, his game in the air, being a threat on offensive set pieces, being one more defender on defensive set pieces, his speed and intelligence on the counter, his two footedness, his leadership, how often he shows up in the big games, being the slightly superior goalscorer, etc. All of these things have intangibles that are impossible to quantify too. For example, him being incredible in the air doesn't just result in goals, it results in assists, it makes it very tough for teams to sit back and absorb pressure, it opens space for other Real Madrid players to attack the box, if the defense is getting pressured they can use him as a reference to play a long ball to, etc.

In basketball there are stats that do their best in quantifying a player's impact on the game and even so, people will still mostly disagree on how they rate different players. Football doesn't have any of that mainly because it is a lot more complex and most stats are useless. That's why the way I see it the better way to judge players is the legacy they leave behind rather than listing and rating a list of atributes of what they can do on a football pitch. If LeBron has the exact same stats and the exact same ability but he wasn't as good in the playoffs, he wouldn't be as highly rated as he is for example. Just like if Messi leads Argentina to a World Cup he'll be more highly rated than he is too despite everyone already knowing what his footballing ability is.

Fair enough if you think Messi's better, I have no problem with that and think it's a legitimate opinion, only have a problem with the way people argue about it and make it sound like a fact when it is very complex, very close and will come down to personal opinion.

If we are using basketball terms I look at like Ronaldo is Kobe Bryant and Messi is LeBron James. Obviously there is a trophy gap between LeBron and Kobe but LeBron really just did it all whereas Kobe was a fantastic player and one of the greatest scorers the game had ever seen.

Just my opinion.

 

[Daysleeper]

Top 10 most whoscored.com MOTM's in a single season since 2009/2010 in the top five leagues:

Says it all, incredible.

 

[shamans]

Top 10 most whoscored.com MOTM's in a single season since 2009/2010 in the top five leagues:

Says it all, incredible.

So a MOTM stat from whoscored "says it all" but Ballon Do'rs and International trophies doesn't ?

 

[Daysleeper]

So a MOTM stat from whoscored "says it all" but Ballon Do'rs and International trophies doesn't ?

Then we also have to throw in La Liga's and Copa Del Rey's and all the other trophies which Messi would still have more of in total 30-27

 

[Kinsella]

So a MOTM stat from whoscored "says it all" but Ballon Do'rs and International trophies doesn't ?

They do if you follow the logic of a lot in this thread who talk about this 'rivalry' as if both players are competing in an individual sport.

 

[charlton66]

Top 10 most whoscored.com MOTM's in a single season since 2009/2010 in the top five leagues:

Says it all, incredible.

I've got to admit I'm a fan of both players but Ronaldo is a victim of a massive double standard on the Caf. If Ronaldo wins the Ballon d'or and/or World player of the Year both are immediately laughed off as glorified popularity contests, yet somehow Messi is the whoscored.com MOTM and it is pronounced as incredible.

Incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[littleman]

I've got to admit I'm a fan of both players but Ronaldo is a victim of a massive double standard on the Caf. If Ronaldo wins the Ballon d'or and/or World player of the Year both are immediately laughed off as glorified popularity contests, yet somehow Messi is the whoscored.com MOTM and it is pronounced as incredible.

Incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man, one moment someone on Earth says that chocolate is the bestest food and the next moment someone says it's sandwiches.

Incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[charlton66]

Man, one moment someone on Earth says that chocolate is the bestest food and the next moment someone says it's sandwiches.

Incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm totally confused now. I think i'm going to just stick with Pele as the best and leave this thread to the millennials.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I’m not having Ronaldo as being two footed at all. Fairly good at finishing with it, rarely uses it when dribbling and certainly doesn’t pass with it often.

 

[Cal?]

How unusual to see this thread without anything worthwhile happening.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The way I see it it's anything but simple when you look at it that way. "Messi scores about as much as Ronaldo but he dribbles and creates more therefore he's a better player" This is how it usually goes and I completely disagree with it, football doesn't work like that and it's not that simple.

Ronaldo is not as good of a dribbler as Messi, he's not as good of a passer and he's not as good on the ball but he's still very good at it and all of the rest makes up for that gap imo. The way he moves without the ball, his game in the air, being a threat on offensive set pieces, being one more defender on defensive set pieces, his speed and intelligence on the counter, his two footedness, his leadership, how often he shows up in the big games, being the slightly superior goalscorer, etc. All of these things have intangibles that are impossible to quantify too. For example, him being incredible in the air doesn't just result in goals, it results in assists, it makes it very tough for teams to sit back and absorb pressure, it opens space for other Real Madrid players to attack the box, if the defense is getting pressured they can use him as a reference to play a long ball to, etc.

In basketball there are stats that do their best in quantifying a player's impact on the game and even so, people will still mostly disagree on how they rate different players. Football doesn't have any of that mainly because it is a lot more complex and most stats are useless. That's why the way I see it the better way to judge players is the legacy they leave behind rather than listing and rating a list of atributes of what they can do on a football pitch. If LeBron has the exact same stats and the exact same ability but he wasn't as good in the playoffs, he wouldn't be as highly rated as he is for example. Just like if Messi leads Argentina to a World Cup he'll be more highly rated than he is too despite everyone already knowing what his footballing ability is.

Fair enough if you think Messi's better, I have no problem with that and think it's a legitimate opinion, only have a problem with the way people argue about it and make it sound like a fact when it is very complex, very close and will come down to personal opinion.

This is very well said. Exactly my thoughts too.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think 90% of the managers in the world would take Messi over Ronaldo.


.

I totally disagree with that. I think most manager would prefer results over “beautiful side of the game”, Ronaldo is more “proven” (in different team, league and settings) in this regard. I actually think in fact most manager would prefer Ronaldo.

 

[redchamp]

I totally disagree with that. I think most manager would prefer results over “beautiful side of the game”, Ronaldo is more “proven” (in different team, league and settings) in this regard. I actually think in fact most manager would prefer Ronaldo.

Exactly. But I also think many, many people are incapable of looking at this coldly. It seems for a lot of people that Ronaldo's biggest mistakes are having played for United, portrayed as evil by English media, and being really good-looking, but that has nothing to do with who is the better player. Same goes the other way when people talk about tax fraud.

Fair enough if you coldly believe Messi is better (and by better, I mean, for the end purpose of winning games / trophies).

I don't, and I'm far from the only one who feels that way.

 

[altodevil]

Why isn't there a poll for this thread? Would have thought it'd make sense given the subject matter.

 

[ryadmahrez]

Ronaldo fans will now say things like off the ball movement(which Messi is world class at), defensive heading, counter attacking intelligence(as if Messi is lacking in this) and so on, is just as important as being the best dribbler ever and being one of the creative passers ever. Rediculous.

Watching these 2 over the years, you have to do some real mental gymnastics to come out with Ronaldo as being better. Some people are just stubborn and delusional.

 

[IFC 1905]

I totally disagree with that. I think most manager would prefer results over “beautiful side of the game”, Ronaldo is more “proven” (in different team, league and settings) in this regard. I actually think in fact most manager would prefer Ronaldo.

I'm sorry, I still don't understand how you believe that, since Messi is way more complete. He is able to play in so many positions, as a midfielder or a striker, and doing it at an elite world class level. He's the best dribbler, the best passer and the best goalscorer there is


The "proven" argument is ridiculous right when you speak about these players. Messi and Ronaldo don't need to prove anything. Messi toyed with Chelsea and city many times, why wouldn't he perform against Watford?

Messi is a player who gives you answers in the game, Ronaldo is the one that demands from you. Having both playing for Levante for example, Ronaldo would struggle more than Messi as he needs good supply. Messi is a creator, Ronaldo is not.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'm sorry, I still don't understand how you believe that, since Messi is way more complete. He is able to play in so many positions, as a midfielder or a striker, and doing it at an elite world class level. He's the best dribbler, the best passer and the best goalscorer there is


The "proven" argument is ridiculous right when you speak about these players. Messi and Ronaldo don't need to prove anything. Messi toyed with Chelsea and city many times, why wouldn't he perform against Watford?

Messi is a player who gives you answers in the game, Ronaldo is the one that demands from you. Having both playing for Levante for example, Ronaldo would struggle more than Messi as he needs good supply. Messi is a creator, Ronaldo is not.

I am not suggesting who is the better player, but do you think those manager with “negative approach” would prefer playing Messi or Ronaldo? After all, even a manager as negative as Mourinho, he still get the record of highest scoring side in La Liga with Ronaldo in his side. And do you think managers in some shitty Premierleague side would prefer Messi over Ronaldo?

 

[Tommy]

My $0.02, and it's INCREDIBLY subjective.

Ronaldo is believable, Messi isn't. You sit there in a lab & you make the perfect footballer, you'll likely end up with CR7... But if you let something just happen, it'd be Messi.

I remember an interview with SAF & John Parrot where he's talking about Messi vs Ronaldo, and on how he believes CR7 would fit into any team in any division in the world & make a massive difference, while he's not sure Messi could. I think that's pretty fair, honestly. You put CR7 in a Villa shirt and they're 20 points clear of Wolves Not sure Messi would do that, but again, it's just theorizing.

In terms of who they are, and the clubs they play for at the moment... For me, it's not a contest. And this is probably the most controversial thing I'll say, but I truly believe the gap between Messi & Ronaldo is bigger than the gap between Ronaldo and the world class players just beneath the pair. But that's likely biased somewhat by the fact that Messi drops my jaw, while Ronaldo just keeps giving 100% to being the best player that he can possibly be. Although do note I'm not saying Ronaldo hasn't dropped my jaw, or that Messi doesn't give 100%

 

[roonster09]

Top 10 most whoscored.com MOTM's in a single season since 2009/2010 in the top five leagues:

Says it all, incredible.

Not sure what it says when you pick some site rating and use it as some sort of proof. Go and check their best players in every season, you will see some weird selections.

Messi is GOAT for me and it's not even up for debate (again my opinion) but Messi fan boys should stop clutching at straws.

 

[LuenerLinguist]

I truly believe the gap between Messi & Ronaldo is bigger than the gap between Ronaldo and the world class players just beneath the pair.

totally agree with that

 

[IFC 1905]

My $0.02, and it's INCREDIBLY subjective.

Ronaldo is believable, Messi isn't. You sit there in a lab & you make the perfect footballer, you'll likely end up with CR7... But if you let something just happen, it'd be Messi.

I remember an interview with SAF & John Parrot where he's talking about Messi vs Ronaldo, and on how he believes CR7 would fit into any team in any division in the world & make a massive difference, while he's not sure Messi could. I think that's pretty fair, honestly. You put CR7 in a Villa shirt and they're 20 points clear of Wolves Not sure Messi would do that, but again, it's just theorizing.

Maradona has won not once but twice the Serie A at it's highest level, and he's not what you would associate with Ronaldo precisely. I still don't understand that logic.

 

[Dennis Viollet]

Don't think either will come close to winning the WC really.

indeed. I meant that it will not necessarily be one of them 2 to win it this time

 

[Ishdalar]

My $0.02, and it's INCREDIBLY subjective.

Ronaldo is believable, Messi isn't. You sit there in a lab & you make the perfect footballer, you'll likely end up with CR7... But if you let something just happen, it'd be Messi.

I remember an interview with SAF & John Parrot where he's talking about Messi vs Ronaldo, and on how he believes CR7 would fit into any team in any division in the world & make a massive difference, while he's not sure Messi could. I think that's pretty fair, honestly. You put CR7 in a Villa shirt and they're 20 points clear of Wolves Not sure Messi would do that, but again, it's just theorizing.

In terms of who they are, and the clubs they play for at the moment... For me, it's not a contest. And this is probably the most controversial thing I'll say, but I truly believe the gap between Messi & Ronaldo is bigger than the gap between Ronaldo and the world class players just beneath the pair. But that's likely biased somewhat by the fact that Messi drops my jaw, while Ronaldo just keeps giving 100% to being the best player that he can possibly be. Although do note I'm not saying Ronaldo hasn't dropped my jaw, or that Messi doesn't give 100%

You put Messi in an Argentina shirt and they're WC and Copa America finalists, you take him away from Argentina and they don't make it into the world cup, with 7 points of 21.

If Silva, Torres or Mata could do it, then Leo probably surely too, he always was two steps above those guys in La Liga, I can't get how it's fair to assume he'd fall short if he were to swap leagues.

 

[Neuron]

It's really not that complicated. Just watch them play. Who's better? It's obvious. I don't even need to say it, you know who I'm talking about.

 

[Lord SInister]

One thing I fail how has Cristiano suddenly being argued as a more winning player over Messi, is it because he has won one more CL as an active finalist over Messi. Because as far as I know Messi's contribution to all Barcelona victories are as much Cristiano's to Madrid or Utd.

 

[redchamp]

One thing I fail how has Cristiano suddenly being argued as a more winning player over Messi, is it because he has won one more CL as an active finalist over Messi. Because as far as I know Messi's contribution to all Barcelona victories are as much Cristiano's to Madrid or Utd.

You have to take everything into account.

Messi benefited from that ridiculous Xavi-Iniesta axis. Sure, Ronaldo didn't exactly play with poor players, but they were not on Xavi and Iniesta levels. Then, Messi had an outrageously talented twosome to play alongside in Neymar and Suarez as well! I'm sorry, but Bale and Benzema just do not compare. That into account, even Ronaldo getting anywhere close is astonishing, never mind surpassing him. This is also completely excluding his time at United - while Messi was playing with Ronaldinho, Eto'o and the like in 2005-6, Ronaldo was playing with the likes of Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and Alan Smith...

 

[shamans]

Then we also have to throw in La Liga's and Copa Del Rey's and all the other trophies which Messi would still have more of in total 30-27

Yeah fair enough. I accept those things but not "MOTM" awards on whoscored

 

[shamans]

One thing I fail how has Cristiano suddenly being argued as a more winning player over Messi, is it because he has won one more CL as an active finalist over Messi. Because as far as I know Messi's contribution to all Barcelona victories are as much Cristiano's to Madrid or Utd.

The biggest thing is winning an international trophy