I've never seen so many fans get up and leave after the first goal went in. I was in the North Stand Tier 2. Maybe it was a large amount of day-trippers, who knows. I'd normally slag them off and my knee-jerk was to last night, but then I thought again. United were never going to score at that point and take the lead. They were just devoid of any intent to win the tie, just didn't want to lose it. This is a turning point for me, under Jose's tenure.
CL L Champions League Round of 16 2nd Leg
Manchester United 1:2 Sevilla
Post-match discussion
Tue, 13 March 2018
The spanish press having a field day: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ss-manchester-united-sevilla-champions-league
It looked like a 433 to me, Fellaini didn't play that game as a sitting midfielder. He and Lingard were ahead of Matic.
I hope one of them draws Sevilla and smash them to pieces. I really do. Would put things into perspective and show Mourinho himself it's not rocket science to attack inferior teams. He gave them too much respect over the two legs and was scared to lose the game. He can't hide if Liverpool go out and tear them to pieces.
Cheers. That's interesting to hear because if the home crowd get fed up there's only one outcome. Now I don't believe they're there but the more we see of these preformances the sooner Mou's time at OT will end.
Fair enough, hadn’t realised you were explaining from a “let’s keep him” point of view.
A lot of us Mou out fans have been called spoilt, fickle, ungrateful or just plain stupid. But I feel some people are letting the CL qualification through EL last season (whilst bumbling to 6th), as well as being 2nd so far this season, cloud their view.
We’ve been crap for what feels like a lifetime, that any sort of improvement in results is taken as an absolute, without looking towards the style of play, which has been much of the same garbage for the last 4 years.
“Mourinho in” fans are entitled to their views and arguments, no matter how much I may moan about it lol, but they need to respect that there are many people who no longer want him here, and many who never wanted him here to begin with. I believe at this point in his tenure there are several solid reasons to no longer trust him to take us forward. He is a very divisive figure and always has been.
I’m sure if someone looks back to my earlier posts at the beginning of each season I’ll look like a hypocrite, I thought he may just turn our fortunes around, but he reverted to type very quickly, and I’m firmly sticking to out at this point. A scrappy win at the Etihad wouldn’t change my mind, just like the win against Liverpool didn’t.
There are question marks over the players commitment, but the reality is once you lose the dressing room (which if he hasn’t already, is very close) you’re a goner. It happened to him at Real and Chelsea, and it happened to Moyes/LVG whilst here. As the saying goes, adapt or die (that’s not literal of course...)
I stayed in the Stretford End until the pitch was empty and Mourinho got a load of jeers, (which it took me a second to clock was aimed at him and there was no referee) which was then drowned out by more cheers.
There’s a lot of entitled United fans. Anyone who thinks there is any real likelihood of having a couple of decades of Fergie-esque success in the immeadiate future is deluded. The Premier League landscape is different at the top and the TV money is a real leveller for the top 6. It’s unlikely we’ll do a Liverpool and go decades without a league, but this top six ebbing and flowing will likely be more set and competitive than the former Big 4 from the mid 90s and 2000s. As a set of home fans, I’d prefer to try and accept that, winning and losing with dignity than believing we are entitled to success.
To be fair they took so many crazy shots from impossible areas in the first half that this number probably got inflated by 50% of what it should have been. We were comfortable allowing them to take those shots because they were never going to score on any of those long range attempts, I am fine with that.
It's our complete reluctance to attack them and take the initiative that pissed me off. Did we think Sevilla were unbeatable?
I don't think it's that unlikely that we will have a long drought at all. The way this club has been managed for the last 4 years it could easily take another decade before we genuinely compete for the title again.
I know City have walked the league this year, but we're second with a lot of players who almost certainly have their best years ahead and bright future at United, such as Pogba, Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Bailly and De Gea. Hopefully can add Shaw to that too.
If not us, then who is going to win the league? It's not going to be City and Guardiola for ten years.
Not wanting to to see this kind of football has nothing to do with entitelment. Neither has expecting United to be able to compete for trophies.
This I agree with but I unfortunately think it requires a change in manager to get the best from talented players.
We obviously don't have yet the team to fight on all fronts. Hope we finish second and show more next season. Bad performance, no excuses. There are times when I see negativity in Mourinho's team selections but he brought us much more than the previous two and there is no one worthy really available right now.
It’s not our best European run Moyse did better.
Even so, they were taking shots because they had the space to do so. Space that teams just aren't normally awarded at Old Trafford. Space that ultimately punished us. The ease at which they reached the edge of our penalty area was alarming.
A lot of United fans drew the same conclusion last night - that we were waiting for Sevilla to score, in order to react. Which is just odd. And you're right, it did feel as if the players and the crowd were resigned to not qualifying - which is just bonkers. The task was to beat a poor Sevilla team at Old Trafford, not difficult in the slightest.
Taking every defeat is a personal affront and expecting United to both deliver aesthetics and silverware each and every season is entitlement. We've got no divine right to it.
People seemingly forget basics such as only one English club being able to win the league each year and only one team in the entirety of Europe being able to win the Champions League each year. People also gloss over two of the aesthetically praised clubs of the moment, i.e. Spurs and Liverpool, having only one a single trophy each in the past 18 [EIGHTEEN] and 11 [ELEVEN] seasons respectively.
We're better placed than Arsenal and Chelsea for the seasons to come. We're almost certainly better placed than Spurs too given the lack of confidence in them keeping hold of their key men. I know it is uncomfortable to work with City colleagues and walk past fat bastard in City training coats in the street currently, but throwing the baby out with the bath water every season is not going to make success more likely or this more palatable.
Yeah by disrespecting the club.
I don't know if this has been posted or not yet, but here's Lukaku's post match comments to BT Sport...
I have to say... I really like this guy.
Captain material, works hard, shows heart and class.
God only knows why on earth Fellaini started, when last did he play a full 90? Yet he starts our biggest game of the season so far? Why not start Mctominay or Mata ?
not having a shot at Fellaini, but at Mourinho. Why the hell bring on Pogba when we need goals? If he had brought on Mata instead of Pogba we would have won that game. NO coincidence that our best chances came in the last 10 minutes with him on the field.
Mourinho cocked this one up and underestimated Sevilla, that team selection was arrogant and complacent!
feckin' hell Jose, pick your best players! Fellaini is a player who we all believe is on his way out, why put that much faith in him in a must win game?
not having a shot at Fellaini, but at Mourinho. Why the hell bring on Pogba when we need goals? If he had brought on Mata instead of Pogba we would have won that game. NO coincidence that our best chances came in the last 10 minutes with him on the field.
Mourinho cocked this one up and underestimated Sevilla, that team selection was arrogant and complacent!
feckin' hell Jose, pick your best players! Fellaini is a player who we all believe is on his way out, why put that much faith in him in a must win game?
The result is absolutely indicative of where we are right now: we are among the top 16 in Europe and nothing more. It's why we are way off the pace in the title race. But on the night the players were poor, the tactics were poor, the reaction to how the game was going was poor.
We still do not have a world-class midfielder, someone who changes games. Roy Keane would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck, David Beckham would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck, Michale Carrick six, seven, maybe 10, years ago would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck. It doesn't matter how good are forward line is (or how good some people think it is), if there is no on to pass to it, no one to cut through the opposition it's all pointless.I have never been a fan of Pogba and his 1000 haircuts, and he will never look world class without world-class players next to him (as he had at Juve). Fellaini carried more threat last night than he did. I have no idea who that guy is wearing the No 7 shirt but he sure doesn't live up to it. Does Alexis Sanchez have a twin brother called Jim-Bob, because I think that's who Wenger sold us.
I've gone on all season about the much-vaunted defence. Sorry, but however much people love Valencia, would any other top team in Europe have him at fullback? No. Same with Young. Both failed wingers -- and boy do we need some proper wingers to give us width.
But there is one other thing. Everyone underestimated Sevilla and aren't giving them they credit they now deserve. They came with a game plan -- don't give a goal away and look to strike late on when it's either too late for United to respond or send them into such a panic that a second goal would be possible should it be needed. They executed the plan to perfection. If we had done that everyone would have called it a perfect away performance in Europe. As it is, we mustered so few shots in 180 minutes that we got what we deserved. We are stlll somehow two or three world-class player short of making a challenge at home and abroad.
We still do not have a world-class midfielder, someone who changes games. Roy Keane would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck, David Beckham would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck, Michale Carrick six, seven, maybe 10, years ago would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck. It doesn't matter how good are forward line is (or how good some people think it is), if there is no on to pass to it, no one to cut through the opposition it's all pointless.I have never been a fan of Pogba and his 1000 haircuts, and he will never look world class without world-class players next to him (as he had at Juve). Fellaini carried more threat last night than he did. I have no idea who that guy is wearing the No 7 shirt but he sure doesn't live up to it. Does Alexis Sanchez have a twin brother called Jim-Bob, because I think that's who Wenger sold us.
I've gone on all season about the much-vaunted defence. Sorry, but however much people love Valencia, would any other top team in Europe have him at fullback? No. Same with Young. Both failed wingers -- and boy do we need some proper wingers to give us width.
But there is one other thing. Everyone underestimated Sevilla and aren't giving them they credit they now deserve. They came with a game plan -- don't give a goal away and look to strike late on when it's either too late for United to respond or send them into such a panic that a second goal would be possible should it be needed. They executed the plan to perfection. If we had done that everyone would have called it a perfect away performance in Europe. As it is, we mustered so few shots in 180 minutes that we got what we deserved. We are stlll somehow two or three world-class player short of making a challenge at home and abroad.
he also looked angry once or twice when he was in space and others (Sanchez, Pogba and Rashford to name three) trtied to bulldoze through the opposition
How many of those talented players is Mourinho getting the best out of though?
Pogba looks like a little boy lost. Martial and Rashford are getting messed about by the arrival of an underwhelming Sanchez. Shaw never gets a chance, even when Young has bad games, and who could blame De Gea for thinking the grass really is greener in Madrid.
Mourinho has only really improved players whose stock couldn't have fallen much further (Jones, Young, Rojo, Lingard, Fellaini). You are right in what you say about the talent being there. I am just starting to wonder if Mourinho is the man to oversee it to fruition. The way he sets his sides out to play is hardly going to encourage our more exciting players.
I was watching DDG at the end last night. I'm pretty sure he knows what he has to do if he wants to win the CL. He looked disgusted
He may have looked disgusted at himself after that second goal.
Shocking. What a demoralising way to exit the competiton. Jose and the players should be disgusted with themselves. Appalling.
Not just the Spanish press , listening to the radio this morning and they referenced other European press describe us as the Anti Football team of Europe , with so much money but so little class on the pitch etc.
Certainly painful to listen to considering our history in the game but unfortunately there is more than a grain of truth to it of Manchester United today. We are a long way from our glory years , and not sure we are heading in the right direction either.
When he scored yesterday, the pent-up anger he put into the shot nearly was nearly enough to rip the goal net
Yeap, we're playing with 4-3-3 with Lingard left #8 LCM, and Fella right #8 RCM. This is the first problem, as both of them are not known to be that good in positioning discipline, leaving Matic left isolated. The reason why our football are so bad and too reliance on long ball strategy is because we can't string passes together from the back and move possession upfield.
Why we can't start attack from the back:
- Matic is heavily marked,
- Lingard range of passing not so good and seriously why the f is he playing way out of position as CM,
- Fellaini advance ahead for far too much waiting for the long ball.
- No Mata.
I can understand that perspective, but I probably also shift the burden of blame more towards the players than you. It’s difficult to assess the season now, but there’s a good chance we will have improved in the league, even if we do finish tropheyless. Hopefully, we (players, the manager, fans) can all learn a lesson from last night that stands us in good stead to come.
If you are going to advocate a change of manager, you have to have a genuine succession plan that is more likely to deliver on the main objectives of the club and I don’t see one. Mourinho ain’t Wenger here.
Yup, they got what they wanted. Mourinho is in a position of strength, he either stays and keeps earning those ridiculous wages or we sack him and he gets a fat bonus.
Not good is it. This should never have been allowed to happen.Fecking ouch
So the big question would the majority of poster have felt better losing against Liverpool and winning against Seville ?
You'd expect a result like that against Madrid, not Sevilla. Very disappointed, we were never going to win it but we really should have done better yesterday. Pogba and Sanchez in particular need a kick up the arse. Our two best players on paper but on the pitch they are in fact our worst players currently. Unacceptable.
No. We should be beating both. Not one or the other. To be honest though, it is the way we went out. If you go out narrowly but you watched an exciting game and you know they gave their all it is more palatable. It was the cowardly way we went out. The first leg should have been a warning of things to come.
We played Fellaini because against Liverpool our midfield was overrun for most of the time. Hence we played the big guy because he's more physical, he's more hardworking, he's more experienced and he's more defensive minded then all other options.
The trouble is that we simply do not have the staff to play 4-2-3-1. Matic is good but he's no Gattuso/Keane in terms of workrate, Pogba is an attacking midfielder, Fellaini is not very good in playing football and Mctominay has great potential but he's not there yet. Things got worse with Sanchez who seem to have the same love for backtracking as Nani had and will get worse with Matic getting more tired during the season.
Its frigging evident that we need to go to the basis. 4-3-3, Matic, Pogba and Mctominay in CM, Martial, Sanchez or Rashford on the left, Lingard on the right and Lukaku upfront. Will that hinder our creativity? Probably yes but that's the best team we've got.
Next season we need to do our homework well and brace ourselves to some painful decisions.
A- One between Sanchez, Rashford and Martial must return upfront and act as Lukaku's cover. Else one of them must leave
B- We need 1 top quality right winger and top quality FBs.
C- We either play Pogba as the most attacking CM in a 3 men midfield else we sell him
D- We need to add a DM (cover/competitor for Matic) + a top quality regista.
Are those two in a sulk. If they are they need to be told to get over themselves. There are plenty of footballers who dislike each other, but they still go on the pitch and perform as a team.
I'm still pretty angry after that game. I've defended Jose on a few occasions, but not after that. He lost us that tie, not just yesterday, but over the two legs. To cede possession and play scared against that very average Sevilla side is completely and utterly unacceptable.
Playing Fellaini from the start showed what we were trying to do. It was obvious we'd be sluggish, slow on the ball and aim loads of long balls up at him. And that's how it played out. Keeping it tight against that team, just not good enough.
Bad tactics. Bad team selection, and to top it all off, bad substitutions. Sanchez tries his heart out, but he's in some shambolic form, and he stayed on the field. Hopefully Pogba sees the bench for a few games to come yet after all his "efforts" yesterday.
My question to those though, who want Jose out - who is a realistically available upgrade?
Playing Fellaini from the start showed what we were trying to do. It was obvious we'd be sluggish, slow on the ball and aim loads of long balls up at him. And that's how it played out. Keeping it tight against that team, just not good enough.
Bad tactics. Bad team selection, and to top it all off, bad substitutions. Sanchez tries his heart out, but he's in some shambolic form, and he stayed on the field. Hopefully Pogba sees the bench for a few games to come yet after all his "efforts" yesterday.
My question to those though, who want Jose out - who is a realistically available upgrade?
What could United have done differently? We already started the game at home with 4 attackers. Both of the midfielders are slow and immobile, moving them higher up the pitch would have only resulted in leaving bigger spaces between them and the central defence. At the moment United don't have a midfielder who can dictate the play.
If anything Mourinho went too soon on the attack with the Pogba substitution, should have stayed calm and played on with Fellaini. United created chances; Fellaini or Lingard could have swung the tie in United's favour.
I think many people -myself included made a huge mistake in underrating Sevilla. A few years back they easily got the better of Liverpool. They've got the experience and the style of play to make for an unpleasant opponent.
Yesterday Sevilla won convincingly. They have the balance which United to this very day are severly missing. Yes, that's also on Mourinho. But it's not the end of the world, Ferguson went out multiple times, Mourinho has to get away with at least this one.
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Man of the Match
Runners-up
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17%
Eric Bailly
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4%
David de Gea
-
3%
Marcus Rashford
-
2%
Alexis Sanchez
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1%
Juan Mata
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1%
Marouane Fellaini
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1%
Ashley Young
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1%
Nemanja Matic
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1%
Paul Pogba
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 465 ratings.
Score Predictions
539,7,28
- Man Utd win
- Sevilla win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 41% Man Utd 2:0 Sevilla
- 15% Man Utd 2:1 Sevilla
- 15% Man Utd 3:0 Sevilla
- 11% Man Utd 1:0 Sevilla
- 7% Man Utd 3:1 Sevilla
- 4% Man Utd 1:1 Sevilla
- 2% Man Utd 4:0 Sevilla
- 1% Man Utd 5:0 Sevilla
- 1% Man Utd 4:1 Sevilla
- 1% Man Utd 0:0 Sevilla
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Sevilla
- 1% Man Utd 0:5 Sevilla
- 0% Man Utd 2:2 Sevilla
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Sevilla
- 0% Man Utd 3:2 Sevilla
- 0% Man Utd 1:3 Sevilla
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Sevilla
- Possession
- 51% 49%
- Shots
- 17 21
- Shots on Target
- 3 6
- Corners
- 5 3
- Fouls
- 9 10
Referee
Danny Makkelie
Man Utd Lineup
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-
-
-
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replaced by Juan Mata
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replaced by Anthony Martial
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replaced by Paul Pogba
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-
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