I don't want him to turn out like Smalling though thanks
Tuanzebe Loan watch
- Thread starter roonster09
- Start date
Enjoy your opinion.
We'd be lucky if a local talent becomes as good of a defender as Smalling...
Why so we can all say he's not good enough to make it here? People trot out that same we'd be lucky line with regards to every crop of youngsters. To be perfectly honest if our academy's not capable of producing better players than Chris Fecking Smalling they may as well give up
I mean if the academy can produce good squad players for us it's doing a decent job.Why so we can all say he's not good enough to make it here? People trot out that same we'd be lucky line with regards to every crop of youngsters. To be perfectly honest if our academy's not capable of producing better players than Chris Fecking Smalling they may as well give up
Yeah close to 300 games for United and 30+ games for England. How fecking shit is that eh?Why so we can all say he's not good enough to make it here? People trot out that same we'd be lucky line with regards to every crop of youngsters. To be perfectly honest if our academy's not capable of producing better players than Chris Fecking Smalling they may as well give up
If any of our academy players end up playing anywhere near 300 games for us, that would be a very very good achievement not something to sneer at because you dislike the player.
Any young CB who's not a calamity on the ball, people here seem to think can play in midfield, or at fullback. It's bizarre. We're a big team and football isn't getting less progressive/skill based. We need CBs who can pass and carry the ball.
You do realise our academy thrives to be the best in the country don't you? And realise some of the players it's produced in the past and present. There's players in the team now that are academy graduates doing a much better job than Smalling.
There's no ex United academy defenders in the league that have been at United that are doing a better job than Smalling. Unless you're directly comparing a defender to an attacking player, which is just random, you have no point.
Chris has been a virtual automatic pick by Van Gaal, Jose and Sir Alex purchased him, yet our fans seem to know better. Certainly not world class but far better than the bag of shite that's posted about him on here.
I hope Axel gets to achieve as much in the game as Smalling has, as he'll have a very good career ahead of him.
It is indeed bizarre. There is just so much difference between a ball playing CB and a CM. There is simply so much more to playing in CM than just having composure and some decent passing. Axel's appearances at DM/CM garnered no criticism at the time because he is just a youth player but he looked out of his depth to me. He was lost on several occasions because he simply doesn't have the brain of a CM. The positioning, the instinct, he doesn't have it. And its no slight because he has exactly those things as a CB and is exceptional there.
Then being a fullback is probably even a bigger difference. Attacking is way too important to fullbacks in the modern game. You can't just stick a decent ball-playing CB there and expect them to be anything more than a stopgap. Jones, Smalling, Bailly, and even Axel have all had and can have a decent game at fullback but none of them will ever be fullbacks nor should we ever expect them to be. It's the biggest problem with our fullbacks at the moment, they offer nowhere near enough going forward. And we just have to hear Villa fan's opinions on Axel at RB. He offers nothing in an attacking sense and is hampering Snodgrass' play down the right as well. There is also a lot more to attacking from fullback than just being fast and decent on the ball.
Which academy graduate is doing a better job than Smalling?
How many academy graduates CBs have we produced in history who've played more times for United and have been better than Smalling? Genuine question by the way as I've no idea. Bill Foulkes. Wes Brown maybe. Who else?
Smaling may not be word class but if all our CB's are as good defensively (if not his ability on the ball) as he is then we'd have done a good job with them.
Granted there might not be any academy graduates that are currently performing as well as Smalling so should that be the target then? I expect us to produce better centre halves than Smalling. I'm suprised that's such a shock to you both. I'd agree that his defending is at a good level, but his footballing brain and ability to play out from the back is crap. Tuanzabe looks composed on the ball and comfortable in possession, it's not an unreal expectation for him to do better than Smalling.
Smalling has many weaknesses, but overall he is a good CB. This season he is the only one who is given in Mourinho's defence, besides DDG. And United have a strong defence, with only 23 goals conceded in the PL. If you extrapolate that, the season will end with 28 goals conceded which is really good even if you compare to the great days, when United was one of the best teams in the world. Here are the last ten years goals conceded with SAF in the PL, from 2012/13 and ten years back:
43
33
37
28
24
22
27
34
26
35
United have a good defence, simple as that. Yes DDG has big part in that, but so has Smalling.
43
33
37
28
24
22
27
34
26
35
United have a good defence, simple as that. Yes DDG has big part in that, but so has Smalling.
composed on the ball and comfortable in possession hmm that's nice, if only he was at least half composed in defending. Nothing go past Smalling, he's a fecking beast in the air and that is really valuable, Tuanzebe is nowhere near being as good in the air as Smalling and the question i if he ever can match him in that regard. Smalling has done really well as a no-nonsense defender. Tuanzebe still makes mistakes and simply cannot be trusted 100%
It is certainly hard to break through as CB more so in a top club and I have fingers crossed for Axel he's a great talent but defenders have to know how to defend first otherwise we can as well field Michael Carrick at CB.
People go crazy about ball playing midfielders but has to take into account many things. Smalling might not be the best passer but by reading the game well h can also help in an attacking sense, and he has a goal or two in him too. Would take rock solid defender any day over "modern day ball playing CB" who is not defensively perfect or solid enough.
So, you have conclusive evidence of his footballing brain being low? How do you measure it? Is it like an IQ-test, or is it based on pure guesswork?
His footballing brain from a defensive position seems to be just fine as he is our best defender. From a ball-playing perspective it also seems fine as he has realized his limitations - one would be wise to do similarly. Thus, I would say his abilities as a ball-playing centre back are less than average for a top six team. On the other hand, he makes very few mistakes with the ball and usually, his pass percentage is quite high.
Playing out from the back, would you want us to use Sam Johnstone from our academy over DDG, as DDG's ability to play out from the back is also quite limited.
All that being said, I really do like what I'm seeing from Tuanzebe. He is still very young, but looks calm and composed. He is very fast, but his aerial ability seems less than desirable. If you were to have your way and we sell Smalling (who of course would go straight down to playing league 2 football, at best), we would need someone great in the air as all of our centre back options, bar Smalling, simply are not good enough in the air as a pairing.
It's not as if VDS was completely rubbish either. Yes, we arguably have the best goalie in the world, but bar a couple of bad seasons, United have had great goalies from Schmeichel, VDS and DDG - even Barthez had a good season -, so your comparison is interesting.
You may expect it but feel free to find a recent one who has become a better player?
There you go again saying he's crap, a "footballing brain" involves reading of the game, something which he simply isn't crap at. Granted he's no Rio when in possession of the ball, but it does not make him "crap".
No one is saying Smalling is a top level ball playing defender, yet so many are simply ignoring his ability and using terms such as 'crap' as it's the flock mentality thing to do.
Obviously a lot of fans have a high expectation of Axel, he may or may not make the grade at United, has the talent, but needs to get the breaks and stay injury free. Can he become a better player than Smalling, well the talent is there, but will he is very much unknown.
I'd say a crap footballing brain in the terms that he has to adjust his full body to play a 5-10 yard pass.
The fact he has extremely shaky and idiotic moments in him.
Listen if you are happy with having Smalling in our defence then fine, however it seems we're targeting another CB to come in and be first choice, and at a guess I'd say we all think that will be alongside Bailly, so if that is the case it's also true that Jose doesn't see him as being good enough.
You seem to be under the assumption I think Tuanzabe will be better than Smalling, I'm not certain of it as you can never be, however I would certainly hope that he was. I want to get back to winning leagues and CL and a player of Smallings capacity, I don't feel is of good enough quality to take us there.
Him positioning his body funnily when passing is evidence of his footballing intelligence? So when people walk funny you label them stupid?
I would think that was down to a weird technique.
His mistakes and shakiness, well he actually makes fewer mistakes than our other cbs. Perhaps it is his somewhat ungainly technique that puts you off? He actually seldom gives the ball away under pressure, but on the other hand, he plays it a little too safe.
He’s also by far the best in the air and seems to be Mourinho’s first choice. If we get a better player in then fine, but then we need to offload. On paper we have too many senior cbs as it is.
It's not a technique though. It's not a technique to have to always play the ball with the inside of your foot no matter the situation. Most players can knock a 5-10 yard pass on any part of their foot, Smalling can't.
There is no legimate reason for him to do this as it adds extra touches he needs to take and slows down him releasing the ball.
If it just looked weird with no difference to how effective he could be then fine, but it limits him massively and I don't get why you are trying to argue it doesn't?
I've never criticised Smalling aeriel ability as it's undoubted he's the best at the club (possibly one of the best in the league actually), however I expect more from our centre backs than simply being able to defend.
I never said that his weird “technique” when he plays short passes doesn’t limit him, but it’s his technique, not intelligence. Intelligence would be poor positioning, poor awareness and rashly going into unnecessary tackles. He doesn’t do that. Therefore, I reacted on your use of football intelligence.
On the other hand, he would be a much better player if he was technically better and more two footed as long as being a better passer. No doubt there, and few would argue otherwise.
Please don't turn this into a Chris Smalling thread, all we want to learn in this threads is if a youngster from our Acadamy is doing well and has chances of making it into the first team. Thank you all.
So.
How IS Tuanzebe doing ?
How IS Tuanzebe doing ?
Should we, then? Because we haven't for a decade or so.Why so we can all say he's not good enough to make it here? People trot out that same we'd be lucky line with regards to every crop of youngsters. To be perfectly honest if our academy's not capable of producing better players than Chris Fecking Smalling they may as well give up
We haven't produced an academy player better than Smalling in a decade? Really?
Anyways as others have said back to Tuanzabe
This thread seems to circulate around two logics:
"Tuanzebe is unproven so he can't be better than Smalling"
"Our academy hasn't produced a good enough defenders for a while, so don't hope".
Needless to say how flawed those are. Also feck Smalling.
"Tuanzebe is unproven so he can't be better than Smalling"
"Our academy hasn't produced a good enough defenders for a while, so don't hope".
Needless to say how flawed those are. Also feck Smalling.
Name any CB from academy we have had on first XI in the last decade?
I said produce better players not just better centre backs. Has their been any opportunity for centre backs to come through for us really? We had 2 young centre backs bought in Jones and Smalling who we trusted to step up when Ferdinand and Vidic were fazed out.
It's the same as our striking options now, do you think we'll see another young striker emerge from the academy and establish themselves soon? No because they have young players in front of them.
My original point was that we currently have a centre back with the potential to be much better for the club than Smalling has or ever will be. Do you disagree somehow?
Smalling is still better than those two. They are still potentials.
You're saying like it's easy for our academy to produce better CB than Smalling, which is BS. As it's not the case in the last decade or so. And a better CB than Smalling is close to world class.
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I've not once said it's easy, I just said we should expect to. We're one of the best clubs in the world and aspire to have one of the best academies.
No chance, Jones is a better CB than Smalling and he's nowhere near world class.
Do you actually read what you post or have understanding of what others post? You're very random with your comments and seem to like to imply others have made comments they simply have not.
Jones is not even a better CB than Daley Blind!
We have a dedicated to Mike Smalling. Take this chat there.
I feel a bit guilty for being part of kidnapping this thread and thought I should instead contribute a little. Here are the ratings I found on Axel's last match against Hull. I only looked for ratings that include some kind of comment, not just a naked figure.
Birmingham Mail
5.5 / 10 Did okay on his return to the right-back role as he offered plenty of support in attack and stuck to his defensive tasks. Used his pace and power to good advantage but faded out and was subbed.
Express & star
5/10 Linked up well with Snodgrass in the first-half but lost his way badly after the break, as his performance became wracked with indecision. A useful lesson.
Read Aston Villa
3/10 Was out of position far too many times and gave the ball away on a number of occasions due to sloppy passing.
Birmingham Mail
5.5 / 10 Did okay on his return to the right-back role as he offered plenty of support in attack and stuck to his defensive tasks. Used his pace and power to good advantage but faded out and was subbed.
Express & star
5/10 Linked up well with Snodgrass in the first-half but lost his way badly after the break, as his performance became wracked with indecision. A useful lesson.
Read Aston Villa
3/10 Was out of position far too many times and gave the ball away on a number of occasions due to sloppy passing.
Kind of what you'd expect, bar the being out of position when defending. He's not played a lot lately so was always going to fade, and much like TFM you never really expect him to contribute much going forward as he's more a centre half than right back.
Agreed with that. I also want the like of TFM and Tuanzebe to step up and be our core players. And I really like this Tuanzebe kid, and hopefully he's not another McNair (who I thought would be a new Rio).
Jonny Evans would be a good shout. Got into the team in 08, and had he not been around we'd have had Pique in the 1st team as well
The same poster finds ways to mention Smalling in every thread relating to other defenders performances or mistakes. I would understand it if you are a fanboy of a world class player, but the Smalling obsession goes too far. He is nowhere near that good to be derailing threads on a constant basis and push your personal agenda.
Pique wasn't really our academy product, I think. Evans, yes, you have a case for that. Better than Smalling? I don't know. I had a high hope on Evans, and thought he'd captain United someday. Those injuries were a bit cruel on him, though.