Where does Cristiano Ronaldo rank amongst the pantheon of greats?

[Revan]

Lazy argument. He was usually marked by 3 or 4 players at the time — neither Bierhoff nor anyone else got that kind of treatment. He was a one-man army, often getting the ball at the half line and creating everything by himself. No one would score «much more» in that circumstances.

Ronaldo and especially Messi are also marked. Luis Ronaldo played for Inter back then, not for shitty team. Inter was a very good team.

Also, not winning ever UCL and winning a single league title (the season he got transferred to the team who has just won UCL, and had won 3 UCL in the last 5 season) in more than a decade playing always for a top 2 (in case of Inter top 3) team in the league is absolutely a shit record. For someone that good is a black mark on his career. Does anyone think that Ron and Messi would have won a single league in their career playing for PSV, Barca, Inter, Real and Milan?

Luis was great but terribly overrated for being fantastic to watch. Still, he has been the third best attacker since I watch football but the distance from RoMessi to him is much bigger than from him and strikers like Henry or Shevchenko who never make these lists.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Not really, it was an entire thread with an initial set of tiers and that was my take incorporating views expressed by posters.

Henry does look off, but I have no recollection of feeling that way. Time, you know, his Demi-God PL-tearing mode was too fresh in our minds I guess.

@BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

Meh, a few years of 20+ goals in the PL (and hanging around with the French 98 team) is decent but nothing to elevate him to that tier imo. On that basis, Shearer would stand on his shoulders and Greaves piss on him...

Even ignoring the United players in the tier below (to avoid bias) that I'd rate level to/better than Henry, there's Socrates, Rijkaard, Thuram, Krol.....

I've just noticed Keegan too! Feck me, it gets worse.

Zidane is considered better than Platini only because the younger fans are clueless about how good Platini was.

Yip. Platini especially (and the France team early/mid 80s in general) were beautiful to watch.

 

[harms]

Ronaldo and especially Messi are also marked. Luis Ronaldo played for Inter back then, not for shitty team. Inter was a very good team.

Also, not winning ever UCL and winning a single league title (the season he got transferred to the team who has just won UCL, and had won 3 UCL in the last 5 season) in more than a decade playing always for a top 2 (in case of Inter top 3) team in the league is absolutely a shit record. For someone that good is a black mark on his career. Does anyone think that Ron and Messi would have won a single league in their career playing for PSV, Barca, Inter, Real and Milan?

Luis was great but terribly overrated for being fantastic to watch. Still, he has been the third best attacker since I watch football but the distance from RoMessi to him is much bigger than from him and strikers like Henry or Shevchenko who never make these lists.

I don't argue with the fact that Messi and Cristiano had better careers — it's laughable to suggest otherwise. As you can see earlier, I didn't even mention Ronaldo Lima in GOAT discussions. But when we compare their actual peak levels, it's hard to look past Ronaldo Lima. His peak was between 1996 and 1998, 2 seasons that he'd spent playing for Barcelona and Inter before the injury. Neither were in the CL for those seasons, but he won both European tournaments that he participated in those 2 seasons, including an all-time great performance in the UEFA Cup final against Nesta's Lazio.

My comment was about Bierhoff in particular though, it's a heresy to even use such an argument. And no, neither Ronaldo, nor Messi gets marked by 3 or 4 defenders comparable to Serie A defenders of the 90's.

 

[Revan]

I don't argue with the fact that Messi and Cristiano had better careers — it's laughable to suggest otherwise. As you can see earlier, I didn't even mention Ronaldo Lima in GOAT discussions. But when we compare their actual peak levels, it's hard to look past Ronaldo Lima. His peak was between 1996 and 1998, 2 seasons that he'd spent playing for Barcelona and Inter before the injury. Neither were in the CL for those seasons, but he won both European tournaments that he participated in those 2 seasons, including an all-time great performance in the UEFA Cup final against Nesta's Lazio.

My comment was about Bierhoff in particular though, it's a heresy to even use such an argument. And no, neither Ronaldo, nor Messi gets marked by 3 or 4 defenders comparable to Serie A defenders of the 90's.

Ronaldo's peak was very high, but Cristiano and Messi have been playing at that level (if not higher) for more than a decade, while Luis did it for a couple of season.

Still think that RoMessi would have scored more goals. They don't allow (for most part) anyone to outscore them, and neither would have allowed Bierhoff or Crespo.

 

[ti vu]

Ronaldo and especially Messi are also marked. Luis Ronaldo played for Inter back then, not for shitty team. Inter was a very good team.

Also, not winning ever UCL and winning a single league title (the season he got transferred to the team who has just won UCL, and had won 3 UCL in the last 5 season) in more than a decade playing always for a top 2 (in case of Inter top 3) team in the league is absolutely a shit record. For someone that good is a black mark on his career. Does anyone think that Ron and Messi would have won a single league in their career playing for PSV, Barca, Inter, Real and Milan?

Luis was great but terribly overrated for being fantastic to watch. Still, he has been the third best attacker since I watch football but the distance from RoMessi to him is much bigger than from him and strikers like Henry or Shevchenko who never make these lists.

You seem to undermine the "team" element (direct competitors included) in this post.

PSV when Ronaldo played for them went up against a dominant Ajax who not only conquered Holland but European football. And he was there for 2 seasons. Both Ronaldo and Messi went 2 years at one team without winning the titles against more dominant teams as young players.

Ronaldo had one season with Barcelona. Broke the scoring record at the time in one try and won Cup Winners' Cup (and Copa Del Rey). Inter had UEFA Cup. Remember CL were for the league winner in these both occasions Brazillian Ronaldo won the other European trophies. Inter Milan and Barcelona didn't do so well on their own; AND other teams put in huge effort in the less prestigious European Cups back in the days. His Inter Milan stint was ridden with injuries too.

Inter & Barcelona were a very good team, but they were no where close to the top dogs when Ronaldo was there. Barcelona with Cryuff at helm was overthrown. Did anyone expect a club at the time had football philosophical civil war to win the title on first try even with the best player in the world, when mourning for immediate departure of a living coaching legend.

Inter almost hit a decade since their last title. They was hyped the year Ronaldo joined because they invested heavily and finished third in 1996 1997. However, prior seasons, they were a proper mid table Serie A team!

Remember there were more tolerance to defenders' fouls in that era than nowadays. Plenty of red card worthy fouls were not punished. It's tough to fight against superior teams when they could cynically hack you down constantly.

Once Ronaldo won that title with Madrid, he hit the decline button. That's on him as part of his Brazillian flair player thing

 

[Champagne Football]

This is bollocks. Pele won a wc in 1958 and another one in 1970. You will not find so many "highlights" because they dont had cable tv or internet in those times...Cristiano Ronaldo can score 10.000 goals for Real Madrid, but Harry Kane probably can do it too.

Cr7 is not in the same page with Pele, Maradona and Messi. I dont care about stats, its not an american sport.

You will not find so many material about Pele, but you can watch endless hours of Maradona playing. Do it and tell me with a straight face that Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Maradona.

If it's a question of who reached the best standard regardless of how long it was for then Ronaldinho, George Weah, Gazza, Tony Yeboah or Fat Ronaldo can all lay claim to being the GOAT.

Claims that Pele was the best are wildly exaggerated. I lived a long time in Brazil and I rarely met a Brazilian who thought Pele was even the greatest Brazilian of all time. Garrinha, Fat Ronaldo or Zico were often mentioned as the best Brazilians of all time whenever I asked someone there.

Maradona was off his head on whatever illegal substance he could get his hands on half the time so even though he was Messi level he didn't do it nearly often enough to be called the GOAT even though he was the GOAT until Messi came along.

It's a bit mad to be honest why you won't put Cristiano in the same bracket as Pele, Maradona or Messi just because he was not blessed with the natural flair that those players had. In an age where world class monsters with natural flair like Neymar, Robben, Alexis Sanches and Iniesta don't even don't even get mentioned in the same sentence as Messi and Ronaldo says it all. If Neymar played in an era without Messi and Ronaldo - many now would be hailing him as a possible GOAT contender.

 

[Cheesy]

If it's a question of who reached the best standard regardless of how long it was for then Ronaldinho, George Weah, Gazza, Tony Yeboah or Fat Ronaldo can all lay claim to being the GOAT.

Claims that Pele was the best are wildly exaggerated. I lived a long time in Brazil and I rarely met a Brazilian who thought Pele was even the greatest Brazilian of all time. Garrinha, Fat Ronaldo or Zico were often mentioned as the best Brazilians of all time whenever I asked someone there.

Maradona was off his head on whatever illegal substance he could get his hands on half the time so even though he was Messi level he didn't do it nearly often enough to be called the GOAT even though he was the GOAT until Messi came along.

It's a bit mad to be honest why you won't put Cristiano in the same bracket as Pele, Maradona or Messi just because he was not blessed with the natural flair that those players had. In an age where world class monsters with natural flair like Neymar, Robben, Alexis Sanches and Iniesta don't even don't even get mentioned in the same sentence as Messi and Ronaldo says it all. If Neymar played in an era without Messi and Ronaldo - many now would be hailing him as a possible GOAT contender.

Obviously it was a long time ago and so the standard was probably comparatively poorer as a whole, but I find it hard to exclude Pele from any discussion - the guy consistently performed for a number of years like Messi and CR7 have, and was pretty much pissing all over a World Cup at the age of 17. In footage he looks incredible - fast, clinical, tricky etc.

 

[Champagne Football]

Obviously it was a long time ago and so the standard was probably comparatively poorer as a whole, but I find it hard to exclude Pele from any discussion - the guy consistently performed for a number of years like Messi and CR7 have, and was pretty much pissing all over a World Cup at the age of 17. In footage he looks incredible - fast, clinical, tricky etc.

He was amazing. Sensational. In that very small elite group of players who can be considered the GOATs which for me consist of Messi, Maradona, Pele and CR7. When you consider that Cristiano has been a regular scorer of every type of goal you can get whether it's 40 yarder on left or right foot, beating a few players and scoring, header, poacher etc along with his not normal consistency then I just feel he should be in that list too. I'd personally defo put Pele in there also. But Pele was the first ever to be considered GOAT and for far too long there was an untrue belief that what he did in the game could never be equaled or bettered but IMHO I feel Messi at least has greatly surpassed what Pele did long ago.

 

[Cal?]

The greatest footballer of all time.

 

[SCP]

The greatest footballer of all time.

 

[Cal?]

I've been saying it in the other thread for years, surely my view doesn't surprise you.

 

[SirAF]

You don’t have to agree, but at this stage it is not an outlandish claim.

 

[SCP]

I've been saying it in the other thread for years, surely my view doesn't surprise you.

Relax, I like Cristiano, I am just getting tired of the old Messi vs Cristiano thing, people should just enjoy both of them and let them play a different style of football, I actually watched his goal probably more than 20 times.

 

[SCP]

You don’t have to agree, but at this stage it is not an outlandish claim.

Clearly shouldn't have used that, I was only laughing because I just like the way Cristiano is defended here, just think positions in this forum regarding Messi or Cristiano are so extreme that nobody apreciates both of them, nothing wrong with what he said, my fault.

 

[SirAF]

Clearly shouldn't have used that, I was only laughing because I just like the way Cristiano is defended here, just think positions in this forum regarding Messi or Cristiano are so extreme that nobody apreciates both of them, nothing wrong with what he said, my fault.

Don’t worry!

I’m not sure who that other guy you’re talking about is though

 

[Romez]

Messi 1, Ronaldo 2.

Not only does he have the trophies to back it up but up until last season Ronaldo scored at least 50 goals in all competitions for 6 consecutive seasons and you still have people saying he's not in the top tier. FOH.

 

[antohan]

Oh, that picture originates from redcafe? Didn't know that.

The original didn't. Someone put it up as the OP for discussion. Doubt it was their creation.

That's a damn accurate list IMO. My only question would be aren't defenders a little underrated? Figueroa, Moore and Maldini could be in God Tier IMO.

Generally where, yes. Once the original generally upgraded creativity and goalscoring going into a wholesale defence upgrade would have been tricky. I think back then I made the point that it was best to look at the relative tiers by position rather than try find common ground on Moore vs Gerd Müller... and that was even before it all becames about stats.

The lion's share of the edited in players at the bottom are my work (not in original so no pic to rejig). With a few I brought them down a notch so as not to make their belated inclusion remotely contentious.

 

[antohan]

This is bollocks. Pele won a wc in 1958 and another one in 1970. You will not find so many "highlights" because they dont had cable tv or internet in those times...Cristiano Ronaldo can score 10.000 goals for Real Madrid, but Harry Kane probably can do it too.

Cr7 is not in the same page with Pele, Maradona and Messi. I dont care about stats, its not an american sport.

You will not find so many material about Pele, but you can watch endless hours of Maradona playing. Do it and tell me with a straight face that Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Maradona.

To be fair, you'd get back to the root of the whole Pelé-Maradona dilemma.

Pelé was an extraordinary physical phenomenom. Yes, he had the brain, the talent, etc but he was also in a completely different league as an athlete. The guy was a machine, while Maradona was short, stocky, used his low centre of gravity well... but ultimately he was 100% fantasy. So the romance always made me settle for Diego.

I see a lot of that replicated in the Ronaldo-Messi debates and would argue CR should be gaged relative to Pelé and Messi relative to Diego.

I think Pelé wins over Cristiano but I'm increasingly on the fence re Messi. He still lacks the "bronca" in my book, and that may well account for the differing WC records, but it's increasingly difficult to pinpoint anything else Diego's done which Messi hasn't matched or surpassed.

 

[Zen]

Easy top 5....but probably 5.

Theres a reason why Muller for all of my years growing up was never seen in the same level of greatness as Pele or Maradona or even Cryuff, despite clearly outdoing them all with stats and also comfortably winning everything he could of. I see it as the same for Ronaldo, despite witnessing his unreal exploits as a scorer, which I clearly didn't for Muller.

But then I'm not sure how I rank into defensive minded players in with these forwards....ugh. Especially since I probably wouldn't go out of my way to truly want to watch Maldini put on a defensive masterclass - but would travel to Argentina to watch Maradona in his pomp, or well just like I have for Messi...more likely Europe and Napoli.

 

[Apocalypse]

Easy top 5....but probably 5.

Theres a reason why Muller for all of my years growing up was never seen in the same level of greatness as Pele or Maradona or even Cryuff, despite clearly outdoing them all with stats and also comfortably winning everything he could of. I see it as the same for Ronaldo, despite witnessing his unreal exploits as a scorer, which I clearly didn't for Muller.

But then I'm not sure how I rank into defensive minded players in with these forwards....ugh. Especially since I probably wouldn't go out of my way to truly want to watch Maldini put on a defensive masterclass - but would travel to Argentina to watch Maradona in his pomp, or well just like I have for Messi...more likely Europe and Napoli.

Yep, though some seem to take offence at the Muller comparison, as if it's like calling Ronaldo the Portuguese Mario Gomez.

He's a scoring machine like Muller was, who produced the goods both in Europe and the World Cup.

Messi is just simply a better player though. Without goals he's still capable of being man of the match. Hopefully he wins the world cup to settle the Maradona debate once and for all.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Numero uno.

 

[Sky1981]

I wonder how many of us have watched Eusebio, Di Stefano, Puskas, etc live.

For me number speaks, Ronaldo has scored bazilion of goals in the highest level. He's up there among the Goats.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I don't know if Ronaldo is the best player of all time, but he certainly deserves better than the "Not as good as Messi" summary his career so often receives.

 

[balaks]

I'd say he is probably in the top 5 of all time - and in the top 2 of the last 20 years.

 

[Dennis Viollet]

who has been better than him?
He'll probably wins another couple of Balòn d'Or and CL.

 

[balaks]

I don't know if Ronaldo is the best player of all time, but he certainly deserves better than the "Not as good as Messi" summary his career so often receives.

To be fair to him many people would argue that every player is in the 'not as good as messi' section. It is no shame to not be as good as Messi - he is a fabulous player in his own right.

 

[Bole Top]

we've had this thread already in 2015. I think, so I'll just repeat my answer - slightly behind Maradona, Pele and Messi.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

To be fair to him many people would argue that every player is in the 'not as good as messi' section. It is no shame to not be as good as Messi - he is a fabulous player in his own right.

Absolutely, but that's my point. There may not be any shame in it, but it's ridiculous that Ronaldo's career would be summarised in anything but the most glowing, positive terms.

When we're talking about Salah, or De Bryne, or Dybala... we don't summarise their talent as being less than Messi, we see them for their positive contributions. It seems utterly bizarre to me that anyone would choose to do it with one of the best players to ever play the game. Some people don't like him as a person, fine. I personally find Neymar cringeworthy, but that doesn't impact how I assess his contribution as a player.

 

[balaks]

Absolutely, but that's my point. There may not be any shame in it, but it's ridiculous that Ronaldo's career would be summarised in anything but the most glowing, positive terms.

When we're talking about Salah, or De Bryne, or Dybala... we don't summarise their talent as being less than Messi, we see them for their positive contributions. It seems utterly bizarre to me that anyone would choose to do it with one of the best players to ever play the game. Some people don't like him as a person, fine. I personally find Neymar cringeworthy, but that doesn't impact how I assess his contribution as a player.

I agree - Ronaldo is fantastic and has proven himself to be one of the very best. The fact he - in my eyes and many other peoples eyes - is not as good as Messi does not detract from his career or talents as a footballer.

 

[RedRonaldo]

This is bollocks. Pele won a wc in 1958 and another one in 1970. You will not find so many "highlights" because they dont had cable tv or internet in those times...Cristiano Ronaldo can score 10.000 goals for Real Madrid, but Harry Kane probably can do it too.

Cr7 is not in the same page with Pele, Maradona and Messi. I dont care about stats, its not an american sport.

You will not find so many material about Pele, but you can watch endless hours of Maradona playing. Do it and tell me with a straight face that Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Maradona.

Which version of Maradona? The 86' WC football GOD, or the older one in his early 30's with concaine addiction and fat body?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Ronaldo isn’t better than Messi, never mind Pele.

The only player to win 3 World Cups, and the best player amongst many greats in them Brazilian WC winning teams. He is number 1 for me.

 

[thelittlestelf]

Number 4 in the top 5 for me. Although with regards to the top 5 I haven't seen one of them and am just going off what people like my father and his grandfather spoke of.

 

[bebeanderson]

You seem to undermine the "team" element (direct competitors included) in this post.

PSV when Ronaldo played for them went up against a dominant Ajax who not only conquered Holland but European football. And he was there for 2 seasons. Both Ronaldo and Messi went 2 years at one team without winning the titles against more dominant teams as young players.

Ronaldo had one season with Barcelona. Broke the scoring record at the time in one try and won Cup Winners' Cup (and Copa Del Rey). Inter had UEFA Cup. Remember CL were for the league winner in these both occasions Brazillian Ronaldo won the other European trophies. Inter Milan and Barcelona didn't do so well on their own; AND other teams put in huge effort in the less prestigious European Cups back in the days. His Inter Milan stint was ridden with injuries too.

Inter & Barcelona were a very good team, but they were no where close to the top dogs when Ronaldo was there. Barcelona with Cryuff at helm was overthrown. Did anyone expect a club at the time had football philosophical civil war to win the title on first try even with the best player in the world, when mourning for immediate departure of a living coaching legend.

Inter almost hit a decade since their last title. They was hyped the year Ronaldo joined because they invested heavily and finished third in 1996 1997. However, prior seasons, they were a proper mid table Serie A team!

Remember there were more tolerance to defenders' fouls in that era than nowadays. Plenty of red card worthy fouls were not punished. It's tough to fight against superior teams when they could cynically hack you down constantly.

Once Ronaldo won that title with Madrid, he hit the decline button. That's on him as part of his Brazillian flair player thing

Thank you. Ronaldo's club career is so underrated here, specially because of ignorant guys like Cal? who only spread terrible arguments like the Bierhoff one.

 

[Cal?]

You seem to undermine the "team" element (direct competitors included) in this post.

PSV when Ronaldo played for them went up against a dominant Ajax who not only conquered Holland but European football. And he was there for 2 seasons. Both Ronaldo and Messi went 2 years at one team without winning the titles against more dominant teams as young players.

Ronaldo had one season with Barcelona. Broke the scoring record at the time in one try and won Cup Winners' Cup (and Copa Del Rey). Inter had UEFA Cup. Remember CL were for the league winner in these both occasions Brazillian Ronaldo won the other European trophies. Inter Milan and Barcelona didn't do so well on their own; AND other teams put in huge effort in the less prestigious European Cups back in the days. His Inter Milan stint was ridden with injuries too.

Inter & Barcelona were a very good team, but they were no where close to the top dogs when Ronaldo was there. Barcelona with Cryuff at helm was overthrown. Did anyone expect a club at the time had football philosophical civil war to win the title on first try even with the best player in the world, when mourning for immediate departure of a living coaching legend.

Inter almost hit a decade since their last title. They was hyped the year Ronaldo joined because they invested heavily and finished third in 1996 1997. However, prior seasons, they were a proper mid table Serie A team!

Remember there were more tolerance to defenders' fouls in that era than nowadays. Plenty of red card worthy fouls were not punished. It's tough to fight against superior teams when they could cynically hack you down constantly.

Once Ronaldo won that title with Madrid, he hit the decline button. That's on him as part of his Brazillian flair player thing

Let's see, L Ronaldo played for Barcelona in 96/97.

In 95/96, Barcelona finished 3rd with 80pts, whilst Real Madrid finished 6th with 70pts.

A year on, Real Madrid won the league with 92pts.

96/97, Juve finished 6pts above Inter to win Scudetto, 1 year on, they finished 5pts above Inter.

For someone some of you would like to rate as one of the very best, he seems to make very little impact to his teams, even before his injuries.

Inter and Barca were both very close to winning the league before he joined, and time and again he failed to win the league title.

 

[bebeanderson]

Let's see, L Ronaldo played for Barcelona in 96/97.

In 95/96, Barcelona finished 3rd with 80pts, whilst Real Madrid finished 6th with 70pts.

A year on, Real Madrid won the league with 92pts.

96/97, Juve finished 6pts above Inter to win Scudetto, 1 year on, they finished 5pts above Inter.

For someone some of you would like to rate as one of the very best, he seems to make very little impact to his teams, even before his injuries.

Inter and Barca were both very close to winning the league before he joined, and time and again he failed to win the league title.

I like how you ignore he won the UEFA Cup those two years. You obviously don't know how big it was back then.

 

[Daysleeper]

Let's see, L Ronaldo played for Barcelona in 96/97.

In 95/96, Barcelona finished 3rd with 80pts, whilst Real Madrid finished 6th with 70pts.

A year on, Real Madrid won the league with 92pts.

96/97, Juve finished 6pts above Inter to win Scudetto, 1 year on, they finished 5pts above Inter.

For someone some of you would like to rate as one of the very best, he seems to make very little impact to his teams, even before his injuries.

Inter and Barca were both very close to winning the league before he joined, and time and again he failed to win the league title.

So what’s CR7’s excuse for failing to win the league so many times?

 

[Cal?]

I like how you ignore he won the UEFA Cup those two years. You obviously don't know how big it was back then.

He won the Uefa Cup in 97/98, ONCE, please don't go inventing trophies for him.

97/98 was also the first season that the CL included non-champions and the Uefa became anything but "big".

 

[Cal?]

So what’s CR7’s excuse for failing to win the league so many times?

Messi's better team mates.

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi's better team mates.

Except ronaldo has had the best midfield in the world the past couple seasons

 

[Cal?]

Except ronaldo has had the best midfield in the world the past couple seasons

Which Messi had for most of the time they both played in La Liga.