Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram

[Ban]

For his sake I hope he goes somewhere else and smashes it.

 

[Akshay]

There was no cherry picking, maybe I should have made this post in a few days when the delirium from the weekend game had worn off.

Was Mata one of Chelsea's if not their best player at the time sold?

Why are you accusing me of cherry picking and throwing whatboutism of Pep my way?

Edit : I will admit, I assumed Mata had won the league before.

Yeah sure, Mata was fantastic at Chelsea before but he didn't suit Mourinho's plans so he got sold. Those plans then proved fruitful as Chelsea won the league. Occurrences like that happen with every manager as I've pointed out, they don't demonstrate Jose has a problem with mercurial talents.

 

[Random Task]

Yeah sure, Mata was fantastic at Chelsea before but he didn't suit Mourinho's plans so he got sold. Those plans then proved fruitful as Chelsea won the league. Occurrences like that happen with every manager as I've pointed out, they don't demonstrate Jose has a problem with mercurial talents.

Which is an extremely vague term in itself.

 

[Pexbo]

For his sake I hope he goes somewhere else and smashes it.

In that case, I hope we replace him with the right shaped peg and we smash it.

 

[Ban]

In that case, I hope we replace him with the right shaped peg and we smash it.

Agreed. I hope we buy some lively, animated aka mercurial talent.

 

[The_Order]

Not going to reply to every post, because who has the time, and I'm on mobile.

mercurial
[mer-kyoo r-ee-uh l]
adjective

1. changeable; volatile; fickle; flighty; erratic:a mercurial nature..

Nothing vague about it

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Nothing vague about it

mercurial
[mer-kyoo r-ee-uh l]
adjective

1. changeable; volatile; fickle; flighty; erratic:a mercurial nature..

Sounds exactly like how you'd sum up Özil that.

Go figure.

And it's obviously fecking vague @The_Order because how the feck else could you use the world mercurial & then refer to both KdB and Martial, two players who couldn't be the more opposite on the pitch.

 

[JohnnyKills]

If we decide to sell Martial, we have to make the deal work for us.

As the selling club, it's a lot easier to 'win' the deal than if you're a buying club. The asset is yours so you can insert whichever conditions you want.

If we release Martial on a two-year loan, or a full transfer with a buy-back, it could work for us. That way he gets a couple of years to develop somewhere else and we can find a club where he'll be well treated. He'd develop more at Spurs, Juve or Monaco than he would rotting on the bench under Mourinho at Old Trafford.

 

[Cassidy]

Its a failure of ours if we cannot give him a platform to excel at the club. He has shown his talent on many occasions and Uniteds philosophy has always been to afford talents like his time and a platform to excel.

I have no problem with signing top players like Sanchez but we also have to keep an eye on the future. Again simplest solution would have been to play Sanchez on the right, or even make Martial and Rashford no1 backups for LW and ST positions and allow for rotation and subsitutions of bad performances. Both things which dont seem to be happening.

Has to he demotivating for a player to see someone come and take their spot amd play awful at times and you cant even get off the bench. The message that sends to the player in terms of the managers trust should not be underestimated

 

[The_Order]

Yeah sure, Mata was fantastic at Chelsea before but he didn't suit Mourinho's plans so he got sold. Those plans then proved fruitful as Chelsea won the league. Occurrences like that happen with every manager as I've pointed out, they don't demonstrate Jose has a problem with mercurial talents.

Yeah, in the short term it worked, in the long term not so much. It's why I bemoan sidelining a 22 Yr old for a 30 Yr old.

In the short term it hasn't really worked, in the long term it still won't.

 

[The_Order]

Its a failure of ours if we cannot give him a platform to excel at the club. He has shown his talent on many occasions and Uniteds philosophy has always been to afford talents like his time and a platform to excel.

I have no problem with signing top players like Sanchez but we also have to keep an eye on the future. Again simplest solution would have been to play Sanchez on the right, or even make Martial and Rashford no1 backups for LW and ST positions and allow for rotation and subsitutions of bad performances. Both things which dont seem to be happening.

Has to he demotivating for a player to see someone come and take their spot amd play awful at times and you cant even get off the bench. The message that sends to the player in terms of the managers trust should not be underestimated

A good manager would be able to accommodate young and established players.

Good amount of rotation helps, instead of playing the same into the ground and when squad players don't perform in a single game - banish them to the shadow realm.

 

[The_Order]

Sounds exactly like how you'd sum up Özil that.

Go figure.

And it's obviously fecking vague @The_Order because how the feck else could you use the world mercurial & then refer to both KdB and Martial, two players who couldn't be the more opposite on the pitch.

Majority of footballers are mercurial, seems you lot have honed in on that word now.

Young talent is mercurial by nature, that's just how it is, very rarely you get a Messi or mbappe. CR7 blew hot and cold for 2 seasons before it clicked. But you need a manager who can help you hone this skillset. Like many have pointed out, not just me, but Jose is not the guy and makes sense. KDB and Martial are different players, well yeah, of course they are, but KDB also blew hot and cold at Chelsea as did Salah, Chelsea isn't one to nurture young talent.

Imagine if Chelsea had been given KDB, Salah and Lukaku play time to properly develop, instead now other clubs are reaping the rewards.

I don't want us to be a club who's pathological pursuit of glory robs us of talented servants.

 

[Akshay]

Yeah, in the short term it worked, in the long term not so much. It's why I bemoan sidelining a 22 Yr old for a 30 Yr old.

In the short term it hasn't really worked, in the long term it still won't.

Are you making an argument about age or the kind of talent? Because you seem to be switching to whatever seems the best to suit your argument. Either way you'd probably be better served keeping this as a discussion of Martial's situation. It's not about talent nor age for Mourinho quite clearly.

Regarding Martial himself, he doesn't seem to be improving under Jose's tutelage. Both player and coach have to take responsibility for that. As it stands, Sanchez suits the team better. If Martial can take the competition as incentive to improve, or Jose can improve his ability to influence Martial, then no problem. At Manchester United there's always going to be competition for places, no one is guaranteed a spot. There will be new talents coming in every summer and if someone can't take the challenge then they're not United material. We're not Arsenal.

 

[breakout67]

Sanchez is mercurial as well. Incredibly frustrating at the best of times, can lose the ball a million times, but then puts in a match winning performance against the best team in the land.

The problem with Martial is not that he is 'mercurial', it's that he has too many deficiencies in his game to be a regular starter. He is very consistent at playing his own game, but that also makes him not fit for games where his own game is ineffective. If you want Martial to succeed you have to sacrifice your team structure, and play players specifically to accommodate him. Compare this to players like Matic, Lukaku, Sanchez, Mata, Lingard who sacrifice their own game for the team.

Lukaku has regularly been our creator in attack despite being the striker, Mata has turned himself into a defensive winger because he wants to help the team. Sanchez is playing very deep and orchestrating attacks instead of being a forward like he wants.

Martial just plays his own game, and when he is tasked with things like being a pure winger, or a playmaker, he has been underwhelming. So the consequence is that he'll only be played when we want his qualities for the game. When we need someone tear the right side of a team a new arsehole, or play a 2 striker system he'll play. That's what he's good at

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Imagine if Chelsea had been given KDB, Salah and Lukaku play time to properly develop, instead now other clubs are reaping the rewards..

Like that's an option at Chelsea ffs....

"Erm Roman, I know we won the league last year but this year I'm gonna concentrate on developing these three youngsters. That might mean us dropping out of the CL places but in the long run it'll be better for us, is that ok Roman, you promise you won't fire me".

What World are you living on in which any Chelsea manager can do anything of the sort?

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you

A) accept/reject it

B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got

C) be against 1 or both of them


...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.

 

[breakout67]

So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you

A) accept/reject it

B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got

C) be against 1 or both of them


...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.

£60m is nowhere near enough. Dembele went for 145m euros, I'd expect Martial to fetch slightly less than that so around 120m euros.

£100m is what I'd want for Martial, but only as a last resort. If he wants to stay then I'd keep him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you

A) accept/reject it

B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got

C) be against 1 or both of them


...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.

I don't want him to be sold so C.

There's a cracking player in Martial so I hope we all (fans, club, Mourinho, player) can be a little more patient. He doesn't have any right to be the first name on the team sheet, he should however have the talent so for whatever reason only he can truly force his way in the side.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

Don't sell him or Rashford, no way. They are both cracking young players that will hopefully mature into United greats over time.

 

[redflair]

Alexis Sanchez has been allowed a run of games to get back into form, but you could say as an established player, he deserves that backing.

Martial simply hasn't been allowed that - and I don't see the situation improving next season. One of Martial and Rashford will probably leave OT on loan (I hope it's neither) - and once they get a run of games I think they'll show that they both have incredibly diverse range of qualities that we've already seen this season.

 

[charlenefan]

I dont understand this thread, has anywhere seriously suggested we want to sell him?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Alexis Sanchez has been allowed a run of games to get back into form, but you could say as an established player, he deserves that backing.

Sanchez gets that backing because he instantly puts a sprint in every time he loses the ball, he never ever goes hiding, always wants the ball and always tries to make something happen.

If Martial had a similar attitude, I doubt we'd even have bought Alexis.

 

[redflair]

Sanchez gets that backing because he instantly puts a sprint in every time he loses the ball, he never ever goes hiding, always wants the ball and always tries to make something happen.

If Martial had a similar attitude, I doubt we'd even have bought Alexis.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[AlexUTD]

You don't rate Rashford?

Ooops sorry totally forgot about Super-Rash!

We need 4 strikers, like we had with Cole,Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer.

 

[AlexUTD]

Not sure if Martial will be prepared for another season playing second fiddle, and even if he was I can't see Jose adjusting the formation in order to please a guy who, in the 3 years he has been at the club, has shown practically zero progression - you could even argue that he has degressed.

Jose's management style doesn't work for everyone, if Martial wishes to further his career a move away seems inevitable.

He have gotten stronger defensively, more hard working.

But he havent played enough to evolve as a player under Mourinho and it worries like you say that we might lose this future world class player because of this.

 

[charlenefan]

The problem with Martial is (and this has been evident since his first season under LVG) is he plays the game at his pace, with his ability every time he gets on the ball he should be looking to beat his man yet how often does he pass the ball backwards? I'm not convinced he's a wide left player either, I think he's a CF who likes to have a starting position on the left hand side. I have no doubt if a side were built around him he would flourish but the question you've got to ask is whether he's actually good enough to have that luxury (especially at a club in a competitive league with the pressure to win the biggest competitions)

I dont want him to be sold as the talent is clearly there but I feel it's inevitable sooner or later that he or Rashford will leave and I felt that way even before Sanchez arrived

 

[Random Task]

So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you

A) accept/reject it

B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got

C) be against 1 or both of them


...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.

Difficult to look beyond option B at this point. Martial is a undoubtedly a top talent and it's only a matter of time before he realizes his potential - just not under Jose's guidance.

Better for United and Martial to part ways and we use the cash to purchase a new right winger, a position that has been somewhat problematic for a number of years now.

 

[Raees]

I dont understand this thread, has anywhere seriously suggested we want to sell him?

He's got a year left on his contract and has been benched for a while. Would say it is fair game for discussion.

 

[charlenefan]

He's got a year left on his contract and has been benched for a while. Would say it is fair game for discussion.

A contract we're trying to renew though yeah?

Obviously if he refuses to renew we have no choice to sell but it's not like we want to get rid of him

 

[redIndianDevil]

£60m is nowhere near enough. Dembele went for 145m euros, I'd expect Martial to fetch slightly less than that so around 120m euros.

£100m is what I'd want for Martial, but only as a last resort. If he wants to stay then I'd keep him.

100m pounds? What are you smoking? We are notoriously poor sellers and I'd be surprised if we sold Martial for more than 40m pounds.

 

[The_Order]

Are you making an argument about age or the kind of talent? Because you seem to be switching to whatever seems the best to suit your argument. Either way you'd probably be better served keeping this as a discussion of Martial's situation. It's not about talent nor age for Mourinho quite clearly.

Regarding Martial himself, he doesn't seem to be improving under Jose's tutelage. Both player and coach have to take responsibility for that. As it stands, Sanchez suits the team better. If Martial can take the competition as incentive to improve, or Jose can improve his ability to influence Martial, then no problem. At Manchester United there's always going to be competition for places, no one is guaranteed a spot. There will be new talents coming in every summer and if someone can't take the challenge then they're not United material. We're not Arsenal.

There was no argument switch. Shortsightedness was part of my original post, I was just expanding on that idea and showing how a squad If not properly managed with an eye to the future can come undone.

As for getting chances, look, its plainly obvious, unlike Martial at the age of 19, Sanchez didn't exactly hit the ground running and as others have pointed out, it's in Jose's interest that Sanchez is successful than it is that Martial is because Sanchez is his signing. So he is given chances to play himself into form. The fact is that we have become more disjointed and lacking since Sanchez was forced into Martial's position. Only 3 months later is he starting to adjust.

It's not just a case of AM fighting for his place, he already did when he got shunted to the left after Zlatan came, and he lost his number, then he made the left flank his own, now he's kept on the bench by a player who's taken some 3 months to get going. Whether he wants to fight for his place or not, that will have feeling some kind of way.

I certainly hope he fights to stay and there is no adverse effects on his development and career.

We are in need of additional strikers, who knows, maybe Martial and Rashford can fill that gap so that Lukaku doesn't die on his feet.

 

[redIndianDevil]

There was no argument switch. Shortsightedness was part of my original post, I was just expanding on that idea and showing how a squad If not properly managed with an eye to the future can come undone.

As for getting chances, look, its plainly obvious, unlike Martial at the age of 19, Sanchez didn't exactly hit the ground running and as others have pointed out, it's in Jose's interest that Sanchez is successful than it is that Martial is because Sanchez is his signing. So he is given chances to play himself into form. The fact is that we have become more disjointed and lacking since Sanchez was forced into Martial's position. Only 3 months later is he starting to adjust.

It's not just a case of AM fighting for his place, he already did when he got shunted to the left after Zlatan came, and he lost his number, then he made the left flank his own, now he's kept on the bench by a player who's taken some 3 months to get going. Whether he wants to fight for his place or not, that will have feeling some kind of way.

I certainly hope he fights to stay and there is no adverse effects on his development and career.

We are in need of additional strikers, who knows, maybe Martial and Rashford can fill that gap so that Lukaku doesn't die on his feet.

There is no point in arguing anymore, people have come to a conclusion that they are willing to sacrifice anything for a title right now under Mourinho. No one seems to be worried about the future repercussions of current decisions, they want their title now.

 

[el3mel]

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Worrying. He's saying Martial wants to leave and refused contract extension.

 

[CA1]

Personally hope he leaves.

Not got the personality to play for United and doesn't fit our system.

I'm also fairly certain he'll only be so-so wherever he ends up too.

Hopefully we replace him with a wide player who can play on the right.

 

[#07]

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Worrying. He's saying Martial wanted to leave and refused contract extension.

His choice. I love the kid but you can understand it. Alexis has taken his spot as an inside left and he's not willing to sign a new contract and wait for Alexis to age out of the team for a chance.

Some people will have nervous breakdowns about this. I haven't really lost my s-t about a player leaving since we sold Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince. Somehow it always works out.

If Martial leaves he'll be world class elsewhere. However, it doesn't mean that United will fall apart. This club is bigger than any one player.

 

[CA1]

His choice. I love the kid but you can understand it. Alexis has taken his spot as an inside left and he's not willing to sign a new contract and wait for Alexis to age out of the team for a chance.

Some people will have nervous breakdowns about this. I haven't really lost my s-t about a player leaving since we sold Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince. Somehow it always works out.

If Martial leaves he'll be world class elsewhere. However, it doesn't mean that United will fall apart. This club is bigger than any one player.

No chance.

World class players have to have far more to their game than him.

He'll go to Juventus and then end up back in France at Lyon or Marseille etc.

 

[KM]

Tweet

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Worrying. He's saying Martial wants to leave and refused contract extension.

Totally understandable from his POV.

 

[AltiUn]

A shame but as long as we don't sell him to a rival I'll be happy. I personally don't think he'll end up world class, he'll have a good career though.

 

[bosnian_red]

Can't blame him too much tbh. Sucks for us, and hopefully we can convince him to stay, but his long term hopes of a starting spot aren't great either as Sanchez is the left winger next season, lukaku the striker and both rashford and martial are fighting it out for the left wing or occasional striker spot along them. If he does leave (hope not), wish him well. He'll be class wherever he goes.

 

[VP89]

Totally understandable from his POV.

If we assume Martial is happy to move to a lower club then I certainly understand the wish to leave. There's not a single top club he'd start at though, so he'd have to accept a wage cut and playing for a club outside top 2 in La Liga or outside top 4 in the Premier League.