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For his sake I hope he goes somewhere else and smashes it.
Yeah sure, Mata was fantastic at Chelsea before but he didn't suit Mourinho's plans so he got sold. Those plans then proved fruitful as Chelsea won the league. Occurrences like that happen with every manager as I've pointed out, they don't demonstrate Jose has a problem with mercurial talents.There was no cherry picking, maybe I should have made this post in a few days when the delirium from the weekend game had worn off.
Was Mata one of Chelsea's if not their best player at the time sold?
Why are you accusing me of cherry picking and throwing whatboutism of Pep my way?
Edit : I will admit, I assumed Mata had won the league before.
Which is an extremely vague term in itself.Yeah sure, Mata was fantastic at Chelsea before but he didn't suit Mourinho's plans so he got sold. Those plans then proved fruitful as Chelsea won the league. Occurrences like that happen with every manager as I've pointed out, they don't demonstrate Jose has a problem with mercurial talents.
In that case, I hope we replace him with the right shaped peg and we smash it.For his sake I hope he goes somewhere else and smashes it.
Agreed. I hope we buy some lively, animated aka mercurial talent.In that case, I hope we replace him with the right shaped peg and we smash it.
Not going to reply to every post, because who has the time, and I'm on mobile.
mercurial
[mer-kyoo r-ee-uh l]
adjective
- changeable; volatile; fickle; flighty; erratic:a mercurial nature..
Sounds exactly like how you'd sum up Özil that.Nothing vague about it
mercurial
[mer-kyoo r-ee-uh l]
adjective
- changeable; volatile; fickle; flighty; erratic:a mercurial nature..
Yeah, in the short term it worked, in the long term not so much. It's why I bemoan sidelining a 22 Yr old for a 30 Yr old.Yeah sure, Mata was fantastic at Chelsea before but he didn't suit Mourinho's plans so he got sold. Those plans then proved fruitful as Chelsea won the league. Occurrences like that happen with every manager as I've pointed out, they don't demonstrate Jose has a problem with mercurial talents.
A good manager would be able to accommodate young and established players.Its a failure of ours if we cannot give him a platform to excel at the club. He has shown his talent on many occasions and Uniteds philosophy has always been to afford talents like his time and a platform to excel.
I have no problem with signing top players like Sanchez but we also have to keep an eye on the future. Again simplest solution would have been to play Sanchez on the right, or even make Martial and Rashford no1 backups for LW and ST positions and allow for rotation and subsitutions of bad performances. Both things which dont seem to be happening.
Has to he demotivating for a player to see someone come and take their spot amd play awful at times and you cant even get off the bench. The message that sends to the player in terms of the managers trust should not be underestimated
Majority of footballers are mercurial, seems you lot have honed in on that word now.Sounds exactly like how you'd sum up Özil that.
Go figure.
And it's obviously fecking vague @The_Order because how the feck else could you use the world mercurial & then refer to both KdB and Martial, two players who couldn't be the more opposite on the pitch.
Are you making an argument about age or the kind of talent? Because you seem to be switching to whatever seems the best to suit your argument. Either way you'd probably be better served keeping this as a discussion of Martial's situation. It's not about talent nor age for Mourinho quite clearly.Yeah, in the short term it worked, in the long term not so much. It's why I bemoan sidelining a 22 Yr old for a 30 Yr old.
In the short term it hasn't really worked, in the long term it still won't.
Like that's an option at Chelsea ffs....Imagine if Chelsea had been given KDB, Salah and Lukaku play time to properly develop, instead now other clubs are reaping the rewards..
£60m is nowhere near enough. Dembele went for 145m euros, I'd expect Martial to fetch slightly less than that so around 120m euros.So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you
A) accept/reject it
B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got
C) be against 1 or both of them
...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.
I don't want him to be sold so C.So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you
A) accept/reject it
B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got
C) be against 1 or both of them
...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.
Sanchez gets that backing because he instantly puts a sprint in every time he loses the ball, he never ever goes hiding, always wants the ball and always tries to make something happen.Alexis Sanchez has been allowed a run of games to get back into form, but you could say as an established player, he deserves that backing.
Thanks for clearing that up.Sanchez gets that backing because he instantly puts a sprint in every time he loses the ball, he never ever goes hiding, always wants the ball and always tries to make something happen.
If Martial had a similar attitude, I doubt we'd even have bought Alexis.
Ooops sorry totally forgot about Super-Rash!You don't rate Rashford?
He have gotten stronger defensively, more hard working.Not sure if Martial will be prepared for another season playing second fiddle, and even if he was I can't see Jose adjusting the formation in order to please a guy who, in the 3 years he has been at the club, has shown practically zero progression - you could even argue that he has degressed.
Jose's management style doesn't work for everyone, if Martial wishes to further his career a move away seems inevitable.
Difficult to look beyond option B at this point. Martial is a undoubtedly a top talent and it's only a matter of time before he realizes his potential - just not under Jose's guidance.So here’s a little hypothetical dilemma I’d like to throw out: If there’s a club out there willing to pay £60M+ for Martial’s services this Summer, would you
A) accept/reject it
B) accept/reject it + flip the funds for a bonafide world class RW similar to Alexis who we got
C) be against 1 or both of them
...me personally, my stance has changed. Before I was fully against selling Martial but I’d be willing to do it for circumstance B.
He's got a year left on his contract and has been benched for a while. Would say it is fair game for discussion.I dont understand this thread, has anywhere seriously suggested we want to sell him?
A contract we're trying to renew though yeah?He's got a year left on his contract and has been benched for a while. Would say it is fair game for discussion.
100m pounds? What are you smoking? We are notoriously poor sellers and I'd be surprised if we sold Martial for more than 40m pounds.£60m is nowhere near enough. Dembele went for 145m euros, I'd expect Martial to fetch slightly less than that so around 120m euros.
£100m is what I'd want for Martial, but only as a last resort. If he wants to stay then I'd keep him.
There was no argument switch. Shortsightedness was part of my original post, I was just expanding on that idea and showing how a squad If not properly managed with an eye to the future can come undone.Are you making an argument about age or the kind of talent? Because you seem to be switching to whatever seems the best to suit your argument. Either way you'd probably be better served keeping this as a discussion of Martial's situation. It's not about talent nor age for Mourinho quite clearly.
Regarding Martial himself, he doesn't seem to be improving under Jose's tutelage. Both player and coach have to take responsibility for that. As it stands, Sanchez suits the team better. If Martial can take the competition as incentive to improve, or Jose can improve his ability to influence Martial, then no problem. At Manchester United there's always going to be competition for places, no one is guaranteed a spot. There will be new talents coming in every summer and if someone can't take the challenge then they're not United material. We're not Arsenal.
There is no point in arguing anymore, people have come to a conclusion that they are willing to sacrifice anything for a title right now under Mourinho. No one seems to be worried about the future repercussions of current decisions, they want their title now.There was no argument switch. Shortsightedness was part of my original post, I was just expanding on that idea and showing how a squad If not properly managed with an eye to the future can come undone.
As for getting chances, look, its plainly obvious, unlike Martial at the age of 19, Sanchez didn't exactly hit the ground running and as others have pointed out, it's in Jose's interest that Sanchez is successful than it is that Martial is because Sanchez is his signing. So he is given chances to play himself into form. The fact is that we have become more disjointed and lacking since Sanchez was forced into Martial's position. Only 3 months later is he starting to adjust.
It's not just a case of AM fighting for his place, he already did when he got shunted to the left after Zlatan came, and he lost his number, then he made the left flank his own, now he's kept on the bench by a player who's taken some 3 months to get going. Whether he wants to fight for his place or not, that will have feeling some kind of way.
I certainly hope he fights to stay and there is no adverse effects on his development and career.
We are in need of additional strikers, who knows, maybe Martial and Rashford can fill that gap so that Lukaku doesn't die on his feet.
His choice. I love the kid but you can understand it. Alexis has taken his spot as an inside left and he's not willing to sign a new contract and wait for Alexis to age out of the team for a chance.Tweet
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Worrying. He's saying Martial wanted to leave and refused contract extension.
No chance.His choice. I love the kid but you can understand it. Alexis has taken his spot as an inside left and he's not willing to sign a new contract and wait for Alexis to age out of the team for a chance.
Some people will have nervous breakdowns about this. I haven't really lost my s-t about a player leaving since we sold Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince. Somehow it always works out.
If Martial leaves he'll be world class elsewhere. However, it doesn't mean that United will fall apart. This club is bigger than any one player.
If we assume Martial is happy to move to a lower club then I certainly understand the wish to leave. There's not a single top club he'd start at though, so he'd have to accept a wage cut and playing for a club outside top 2 in La Liga or outside top 4 in the Premier League.Totally understandable from his POV.