Scoring goals? It's his goals in the previous round that got them here.
Messi to them always has an excuse for everything. Ronaldo would be shunned. This debate is a wrap for me. Intangibles like this are what make a player not just talent.
I'm not discounting Ronaldo though. In fact, I literally didn't even mention him in the post you quoted.
So then can we also say Madrid as a team weren't doing what Barca was doing again and again in the Xavi/Iniesta era and also say "so sad Ronalodo gets shat on due to his team"?
Neither did I? I am talking about Messi playing in an all conquering Spanish side.
He is a joker and don't know what he is saying at all. Him among with. others just basically said Messi was good because of one of the greatest Barca teams of all time. Probably explains why he never left Barca.
I didn’t mean he isn’t vital, just that they have a very very good team al over the pitch. Ramos, Marcelo, Modric, Kroos are the best in the world in their positions in my opinion. Bale, Benzema, Isco, James are all great.
That seems to be the problem.
Always seems toMy man Messi folding in the biggest of games...
I just can't see one of them not winning it.
Yes, I'm not saying they'll finish top 2, but one of them is still very likely to win it. Ronaldo won it by a landslide in 2014.
Clearly you were implying my praise of RM's midfield and defence was discounting Ronaldo. It wasn't.
Anyone who knows anything about football could have told you that.
Who shits on Ronaldo because of his team? Those are idiots just like the folk that did it to Messi in the Pep days.
Well no, he would have dominated for any side.
I wasn't implying anything regarding Ronaldo.
The difference is take those players out of the team and put another good defender or midfielder in their as long as they have Ronaldo they will win it. BUT keep all those players in the lineup and take out Ronaldo. They would not make the final. That right their is the DIFFERENCE.
Messi has been spoon-fed with great team and players unlike Ronaldo?
Oh yeah, same for me. I mean do you think Ron deserves it for his incredible run after Christmas? Or does Messi deserve it for dragging Barca to the title? Or will Salah deserve it for being the main factor in Liverpool winning the CL if they manage to win it?
Sir Alex said it best. PUT Ronaldo in Doncaster and he would still bang in 40. Put Messi there and you cant be so sure.
Likes of Ter Stegen, Pique, Umtiti, Alba, Busquets, Rakitic, Suarez, Coutinho, Dembele are Everton level? Give your head a wobble.Messi became a club in this thread
It's good at least that people who don't recognise him as greatest at least acknowledge that Barcelona is about Everton level without him.
Those teams have benefitted even more from them tbf.
Exactly, because Ramos has scored some very crucial clutch goals for them. He doesn’t score vs Athletico a few years back, and they go out. Thus Ronaldo doesn’t have that extra CL, do we then use that against Ronaldo?
Go’s both ways, when Madrid was no where near the quality of those Barca sides.
Have you watched the whole game today?
That's absolute NONSENSE.
Like I said take those players out the lineup and put other good players their they probably still would have won it because of one name RONALDO. Take Ronaldo out of that side and keep the rest of the players and they make the Semis at Best.
The Ballon D'or is supposed to be based on the calendar year, so Ronaldo's lackluster last few months of 2017 is not supposed to matter, at all.
I'm talking about Madrid side which one 3 CLs in 4 years and that team certainly isn't far away from those Barca sides. So yeah it works both ways.
No, just after the 2-0. Did I make any comment about the game?
I never said take him out for Danny Rose im saying Put Ronaldo in lets say Manchester City or another high quality team they have a better chance of making the Final then without him. Im not discrediting those married players.
I partly agree. On his day, he would definitely be able to carry Barcelona through this match alone. Obviously, this wasn't the case and he showed a dull performance. But as you said with Argentina, his teams currently are far too reliant on him. Strokes of genius occur erraticly, you cannot plan with them, even with someone like Messi who has them in almost every match. I think that individual class should never be the plan A. Guardiola's Barcelona was so brillant because of all the synergies and the collective so that it was easy for players to shine individually. Even if noone had an exceptional performance they were quite good. Now it seems like many players like Busquets, Rakitic, Pique, Semedo, Suarez, even Iniesta look worse than they actually are because they do not have this basic systematic framework and shared philosophy in which they functioned so well. Occasionally, their genius shines through and you see nice passing phases but these seem to be remnants of the past and no intended automatisms. Instead, they pass the ball to Messi and expect him to create. But you simply cannot expect him to step up in every game. A club like Barcelona should be able to win these matches even without him and this is hardly the case, currently. They are a mediocre team without him, both as a collective as well as on an individual basis. Compare this team head to head to Real, PSG, Bayern or City and they look average. And those clubs actually have an idea of how to play as a team instead of relying on the genius of a man.
But that literally makes no sense because RONALDO played in that game and they didn't win it because of him. He was anonymous. They won it because of Ramos.
They just lost a 4-1 agg lead vs Roma.The Barca side 10+ points clear in the league and 15 ahead of Real Madrid.
Yep, this poor Barca side.
The excuses
