FC Bayern 17/18 discussion

[2ndTouch]

There are no better options at the moment. He´ll be cheap.

Not as cheap as an equally capable cornerpole, though.

He had a short career there, how do Bayern fans here rate his brother Robert's time at the club?

Nobody would classify Robert as a legend, but he had a successful career at our club and was a near WC defender in his peak years.

Tuchel or Favre are good coaches but not without dents in their career that made it doubtful they would be able to function at Bayern in the end. Don't see much difference experience/having-proven-himself-at-top-level between Kovac, Nagelsmann or Hasenhüttl.

Uh huh. Might as well have gotten us Dardai, Hecking or Korkut.

So far, the press is friendly. Allegedly, Heynckes right hand man Peter Herrmann will join Kovacs team, that's a huge plus.

It's a plus, and a confession...

Absolute travesty of an appointment, well, let's see who they are going to dig up come October

 

[do.ob]

Tuchel or Favre are good coaches but not without dents in their career that made it doubtful they would be able to function at Bayern in the end. Don't see much difference experience/having-proven-himself-at-top-level between Kovac, Nagelsmann or Hasenhüttl.

If there had been a man who was an obvious "super solution" on the market, Bayern would have hired him,

So far, the press is friendly. Allegedly, Heynckes right hand man Peter Herrmann will join Kovacs team, that's a huge plus.

I was replying to someone who said there were no other choices than Kovac, I don't think the trio I mentioned is perfect, but neither is someone with zero European experience (which I mention because a lot of coaches initially tend to struggle with CL matches and balancing three competitions) and a playstyle that basically the opposite of Bayern's current. When Ancelotti deviated from Bayern's dominant philosophy it didn't go so well.
And of course the media laps Kovac up at the moment, they always do. Just as everyone will be completely baffled how in the world they could pass on Tuchel for Kovac if the latter doesn't succeed, some will tie in the Brazzo appointment as well and see what they can get out of that.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Absolute travesty of an appointment, well, let's see who they are going to dig up come October

They can probably talk Heyneckes into one more time.

 

[do.ob]

They can probably talk Heyneckes into one more time.

That's probably Hoeneß masterplan, hire someone he can fire in the fall so he can trick Heynckes into one more season and feck up a "domestic rival" in the process.

 

[HerrLeinad]

I was replying to someone who said there were no other choices than Kovac, I don't think the trio I mentioned is perfect, but neither is someone with zero European experience (which I mention because a lot of coaches initially tend to struggle with CL matches and balancing three competitions) and a playstyle that basically the opposite of Bayern's current. When Ancelotti deviated from Bayern's dominant philosophy it didn't go so well.
And of course the media laps Kovac up at the moment, they always do. Just as everyone will be completely baffled how in the world they could pass on Tuchel for Kovac if the latter doesn't succeed, some will tie in the Brazzo appointment as well and see what they can get out of that.

Ancelotti didn't deviate from anything and that was exactly the problem. Just look at the numbers of ball possession and so on between Guardiola's last season and Ancelotti's first season, they are pretty much the same and people just forgot the problems we already had under Guardiola at the end (our attacking play consisted of getting the ball to the wings and then countless crosses to Lewandowski/Müller).

Now look at our home(!) game vs Sevilla in the CL and the tactical approach. We had less possession than Sevilla, when did that ever happen under Guardiola OR Ancelotti? What some call Bayern's dominant philosophy was never our philosophy, it was Heynckes mix of dominant football and a pragmatic approach that made us really successful and the reason why we are now on track again.

So if you look closely you can just as easily argue that Kovac is supposed to be a continuation of that.

 

[RW2]

Well Kovac turned Frankfurt into a possession team since the winter break. Against Hoffenheim and Nagelsmann last week they had 64 % possession and all games combined over 53 %. After the defensive minded last season and beginning of this season he really showed how to progress to be a possession team which tends to attack over the wings. Nagelsmann for example turned Hoffenheim into a non possession team over the last week but both are getting results with their "new" style of play. Although Hoeneß was the driving force behind the Guardiola signing and i think the Sammer departure was based on health issuses. Still i also think that Hoeness plan of appointing former players to key positions regardless of their experience and his problems with sharing the control are problems for Bayern. His ignorance of tactics and modern training methods of football and all the other "new" stuff is just ridiculous and can cause a major stepback in development. The problem is you wont see this too fast as the league is too soft.

Good post and honestly I see some posting here (some of them Bayern fans) and you know for certain that they've seen little of Eintracht Frankfurt under Kovac. They seem pissed off because Kovac is not Tuchel (who had a conversation with Pep once & so must be world class) or Nagelsmann (who's a one trick defensive & counter attacking pony).

When Bayern played in Frankfurt last December for the first time in years I saw a Frankfurt team retain and hold possession for long periods against Bayern. Bayern won the game 1 nil but had few opportunities and only won it because the referee bottled sending off Vidal after 5 mins (who went on to score the winner).

Kovac has done a fantastic job at EF with next to no financial resources. He's brought in excellent players on loan (Jesus Vallejo, Jovic), bought potentially very good players and developed them into far better players (Marius Wolf, Ante Rebic) and mixed in experience (Boateng) to create a team which holds possession, plays attacking football and competes with the best teams in the Bundesliga. My understanding is that the players at EF have completely bought into his philosophy and think he's a fantastic coach.

I know it's all ifs, buts and maybes but if Eintracht this season had not conceded last minute goals to Hoffenheim (A), Dortmund (A) and Schalke (H) they would be in second place at the moment. As things stand they remain fifth competing with Leverkusen tomorrow for a Champions League spot with five matches left and a cup semi final at Schalke next Wednesday. Ask any Frankfurt fan if they'd have taken this at the start of the season and most would have laughed at the ridiculousness of the question.

But the moaners out there wonder about Kovac.
Has he even met Pep?. . . they wonder.
What about possession style tiki-taka?

It's all nonsense. The job of a manager is to get the best results out of the players he has at his disposal.
Tiki-taka was the future once. . . You can't win football matches without playing possession (and usually exciting) football mixed with bringing in the right players.
For the Pep lovers. . . No doubt he'll spend another 300-400m over the summer to put a team into the QF of the CL next season.

Kovac will be a different manager at Bayern because Eintracht Frankfurt (and any other Bundesliga team) are literally in the same league as Bayern in name only at the moment.
Only time will tell.

 

[André Dominguez]

Good post and honestly I see some posting here (some of them Bayern fans) and you know for certain that they've seen little of Eintracht Frankfurt under Kovac. They seem pissed off because Kovac is not Tuchel (who had a conversation with Pep once & so must be world class) or Nagelsmann (who's a one trick defensive & counter attacking pony).

When Bayern played in Frankfurt last December for the first time in years I saw a Frankfurt team retain and hold possession for long periods against Bayern. Bayern won the game 1 nil but had few opportunities and only won it because the referee bottled sending off Vidal after 5 mins (who went on to score the winner).

Kovac has done a fantastic job at EF with next to no financial resources. He's brought in excellent players on loan (Jesus Vallejo, Jovic), bought potentially very good players and developed them into far better players (Marius Wolf, Ante Rebic) and mixed in experience (Boateng) to create a team which holds possession, plays attacking football and competes with the best teams in the Bundesliga. My understanding is that the players at EF have completely bought into his philosophy and think he's a fantastic coach.

I know it's all ifs, buts and maybes but if Eintracht this season had not conceded last minute goals to Hoffenheim (A), Dortmund (A) and Schalke (H) they would be in second place at the moment. As things stand they remain fifth competing with Leverkusen tomorrow for a Champions League spot with five matches left and a cup semi final at Schalke next Wednesday. Ask any Frankfurt fan if they'd have taken this at the start of the season and most would have laughed at the ridiculousness of the question.

But the moaners out there wonder about Kovac.
Has he even met Pep?. . . they wonder.
What about possession style tiki-taka?

It's all nonsense. The job of a manager is to get the best results out of the players he has at his disposal.
Tiki-taka was the future once. . . You can't win football matches without playing possession (and usually exciting) football mixed with bringing in the right players.
For the Pep lovers. . . No doubt he'll spend another 300-400m over the summer to put a team into the QF of the CL next season.

Kovac will be a different manager at Bayern because Eintracht Frankfurt (and any other Bundesliga team) are literally in the same league in name only at the moment.
Only time will tell.

Jovic was even having troubles even when featuring in Benfica B team. I know he's a young player with tons of potential, but he was really stalling here, and I'm glad things worked well under Kovac.

Jesus Vallejo is a fantastic defender who signed a contract with Real Madrid at
such a young age, which means he has value to be a top top player.

I really enjoyed Frankfurt this season aswell, even though some games they look a bit toothless despite all the possesion.

 

[RW2]

Jovic was even having troubles even when featuring in Benfica B team. I know he's a young player with tons of potential, but he was really stalling here, and I'm glad things worked well under Kovac.

Jesus Vallejo is a fantastic defender who signed a contract with Real Madrid at
such a young age, which means he has value to be a top top player.

I really enjoyed Frankfurt this season aswell, even though some games they look a bit toothless despite all the possesion.

Jovic has been a real find alright. My understanding is that only Lewandowski has a better goals per minute ratio than Jovic although admittedly Jovic has played far fewer games having only broken into the EF first team recently. Vallejo was superb but was always going back to Real.
Also Ante Rebic (who Kovac knew from his time as Croatia coach) was brought in from Fiorentina. Initially Rebic was very hit and miss but Kovac has turned him into a far better player. Who even heard of Jovic before apart from people following league in Portugal?. . . This tells me that Kovac also brings a good team with him.

Regarding Frankfurt seemingly toothless at home in some matches.
There's a very simple reason for this. I've seen teams turn up in Frankfurt and effectively sit in their own half waiting for a counter attack. A compliment if anything.

 

[do.ob]

Ancelotti didn't deviate from anything and that was exactly the problem. Just look at the numbers of ball possession and so on between Guardiola's last season and Ancelotti's first season, they are pretty much the same and people just forgot the problems we already had under Guardiola at the end (our attacking play consisted of getting the ball to the wings and then countless crosses to Lewandowski/Müller).

Now look at our home(!) game vs Sevilla in the CL and the tactical approach. We had less possession than Sevilla, when did that ever happen under Guardiola OR Ancelotti? What some call Bayern's dominant philosophy was never our philosophy, it was Heynckes mix of dominant football and a pragmatic approach that made us really successful and the reason why we are now on track again.

So if you look closely you can just as easily argue that Kovac is supposed to be a continuation of that.

Bayern will always have loads of possession in Bundesliga as long teams try to defend passively against them and thus Ancelotti had loads of possession as well, but unlike Heynckes, van Gaal and Guardiola he doesn't strike me as a coach who is happy to embrace these amounts of possession.
And while it's true that Heyncke's tactical flexibility is a big asset for Bayern from what I can tell they still act as a dominant team the vast majority of matches and only use a more passive setup in a few select matches and situations.

Good post and honestly I see some posting here (some of them Bayern fans) and you know for certain that they've seen little of Eintracht Frankfurt under Kovac. They seem pissed off because Kovac is not Tuchel (who had a conversation with Pep once & so must be world class) or Nagelsmann (who's a one trick defensive & counter attacking pony).

When Bayern played in Frankfurt last December for the first time in years I saw a Frankfurt team retain and hold possession for long periods against Bayern. Bayern won the game 1 nil but had few opportunities and only won it because the referee bottled sending off Vidal after 5 mins (who went on to score the winner).

Kovac has done a fantastic job at EF with next to no financial resources. He's brought in excellent players on loan (Jesus Vallejo, Jovic), bought potentially very good players and developed them into far better players (Marius Wolf, Ante Rebic) and mixed in experience (Boateng) to create a team which holds possession, plays attacking football and competes with the best teams in the Bundesliga. My understanding is that the players at EF have completely bought into his philosophy and think he's a fantastic coach.

I know it's all ifs, buts and maybes but if Eintracht this season had not conceded last minute goals to Hoffenheim (A), Dortmund (A) and Schalke (H) they would be in second place at the moment. As things stand they remain fifth competing with Leverkusen tomorrow for a Champions League spot with five matches left and a cup semi final at Schalke next Wednesday. Ask any Frankfurt fan if they'd have taken this at the start of the season and most would have laughed at the ridiculousness of the question.

But the moaners out there wonder about Kovac.
Has he even met Pep?. . . they wonder.
What about possession style tiki-taka?

It's all nonsense. The job of a manager is to get the best results out of the players he has at his disposal.
Tiki-taka was the future once. . . You can't win football matches without playing possession (and usually exciting) football mixed with bringing in the right players.
For the Pep lovers. . . No doubt he'll spend another 300-400m over the summer to put a team into the QF of the CL next season.

Kovac will be a different manager at Bayern because Eintracht Frankfurt (and any other Bundesliga team) are literally in the same league as Bayern in name only at the moment.
Only time will tell.

Come on man, those are some ridiculous statements.
Tuchel is favoured by a lot of people because he has shown at Dortmund that he can build a dominant team, not because of some dinner with Pep.
And "one trick defensive and counter attacking pony" Nagelmann has good chances of finishing ahead of Frankfurt (again) this season, despite losing several key players and having the distraction of European football. He also has a positive record against Bayern, compared to Kovac's one point out of four matches.

Coaches also don't build teams in Bundesliga, so that whole paragraph is at best pointless and every club could play what if games that put them to the top.

 

[Kasper]

It's gonna be a hilarious disaster. They might limp to the league title since there's barely any competition at all at the moment but I expect a continuous decline thanks to this uninspiring appointment and Wuerstchenuli & Co's denial regarding the market changes.

 

[Emacii]

Its just not possible to compare and rank them. All three (Nagelsmann, Kovac and Tuchel) showed that they are really capable coaches who can adapt to their team strenghts as well as to different opponents which is a rare gift among coaches in the bundesliga as they tend to play a very similiar style throughout the whole season (mostly defensive minded and often mirroring the opponent). The advantage of Tuchel is that he really coached a champions league team, especially the changed weekly schedule with european matches is something which causes a lot of struggle for coaches. Eventhough Hoffenheim is having a quite good season the improvment of results after their exit in the euro league is remarkable. So this is quite a gamble from Bayern to take a coach who as no experience regarding this topic, but on the other hand the quality of bayern is so much higher compared to the rest of the bundesliga that this effect should not be that big in the league.

So in Terms of Coaching i think Tuchel was the safest "bet" but who knows how it would have worked out with the board and several players (Hummels for example). Nagelsmann and Kovac are both really talented coaches and its tough to call who would fit the best. Maybe time will tell us because all three of them could end up at bayern at some point of their carrer

 

[fcbforever]

This love in for Tuchel is just absolutely unbelievable. He's proven nothing and absolutely imploded the last time he coached. His PR must be top notch.

If we get Kovac I'm willing to give him a chance, although I would have preferred Favre.

 

[fcbforever]

Bayern will always have loads of possession in Bundesliga as long teams try to defend passively against them and thus Ancelotti had loads of possession as well, but unlike Heynckes, van Gaal and Guardiola he doesn't strike me as a coach who is happy to embrace these amounts of possession.
And while it's true that Heyncke's tactical flexibility is a big asset for Bayern from what I can tell they still act as a dominant team the vast majority of matches and only use a more passive setup in a few select matches and situations.



Come on man, those are some ridiculous statements.
Tuchel is favoured by a lot of people because he has shown at Dortmund that he can build a dominant team, not because of some dinner with Pep.
And "one trick defensive and counter attacking pony" Nagelmann has good chances of finishing ahead of Frankfurt (again) this season, despite losing several key players and having the distraction of European football. He also has a positive record against Bayern, compared to Kovac's one point out of four matches.

Coaches also don't build teams in Bundesliga, so that whole paragraph is at best pointless and every club could play what if games that put them to the top.

He can do it...for half a season. He's proven nothing at all. At least not compared to other available options, including Kovac to be honest. He's just more fancy.

 

[el3mel]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Official.

 

[izec]

It is official now

 

[el3mel]

Clever though, only 3 years instead of the 6 years we gave Moyes.

 

[el3mel]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Ban]

Is it wise to announce it before the end of the season like that?

 

[fcbforever]

Is it wise to announce it before the end of the season like that?

Eh?? Why not?

 

[do.ob]

Is it wise to announce it before the end of the season like that?

It's the perfect timing for Bayern because they ended that looming uncertainty right after they won the league and the CL QF and now they have two weeks to refocus on their CL campaign. It's all at the expense of Frankfurt however who are likely to suffer in these crucial weeks for them.

 

[Ban]

Eh?? Why not?

Before CL semifinal games and all.

 

[fcbforever]

Before CL semifinal games and all.

That’s exactly the reason we are announcing it now. So the media speculation is over and we can focus on that. You do know Heynckes is retiring yes?

 

[Ban]

That’s exactly the reason we are announcing it now. So the media speculation is over and we can focus on that. You do know Heynckes is retiring yes?

Yeah. I guess it's logical then.

 

[Becks-7-]

It is really hard to take it like that as an Eintracht supporter. He was speaking again and again about „contracts aren‘t worth anything anymore - it is a shame in modern football. Spoken words mean nothing.“
In the last couple of weeks he said that he has a contract till end of June 19 and will be in Frankfurt next season for sure. How can anyone around the club accept an announcement like that one day before such an important game? DFB-Pokal semi final next week as well.

Don’t get me wrong: his move is understandable of course but that is going to cost him any kind of credit over here. Fully deserved!

 

[hasanejaz88]

Is it wise to announce it before the end of the season like that?

If anything, given the last time it happened, it's a pretty good omen

 

[Ban]

If anything, given the last time it happened, it's a pretty good omen

Hm, with whom?

 

[do.ob]

Fredi Bobic is not pulling any punches at Frankfurt's press conference for the weekend match vs Leverkusen:

"Bayern did their thing and only thought about themselves. We now have to deal with the disturbances in these important weeks".

"That's a lack of respect and unprofessional"

"There was definitely no contact with Bayern. Everything went straight to the public, every detail. That's new to me in that form".

But the best bit is from Kovac:
"Last week I said that there was no contact with Bayern. Suddenly that changed. Yesterday I got a call and a contract offer from Munich"

 

[strongwalker]

Fredi Bobic is not pulling any punches at Frankfurt's press conference for the weekend match vs Leverkusen:

"Bayern did their thing and only thought about themselves. We now have to deal with the disturbances in these important weeks".

"That's a lack of respect and unprofessional"

"There was definitely no contact with Bayern. Everything went straight to the public, every detail. That's new to me in that form".

Bobic is a bellend but he has a few valid points there. Also, I'm not surprised.

But the best bit is from Kovac:
"Last week I said that there was no contact with Bayern. Suddenly that changed. Yesterday I got a call and a contract offer from Munich"

Sad thing is, it's probably true.

 

[do.ob]

Sad thing is, it's probably true.

Loddar with a big smile told people on live TV that he still has a couple of friends at Bayern and and that those sources told him that Kovac was a done deal. That was two weeks ago.
Kovac went from someone who would speak a lot about values and morals to someone who obviously bullshits the public and fans and apparently must think they are mentally impaired. Technically he also claims that Bayern's bosses act impulsively and without due dilligence. But I guess the media won't pick that one up. I'd love to see someone grill Rummenigge, Hoeneß and Brazzo about how they discussed strategy, negiated a contract and all that stuff between Kovac's training session, the time it took him to get to Munich and the breaking/leaking of the news early that same evening.

 

[RooneyLegend]

cheapskate? don't spend much? There is a sweet spot between pissing money around without a plan and cheapskating. Money is not really an object at Bayern if they are convinced that man, player or coach, is a 100% fit for the club. Neither Ancelotti nor Pep came cheap. Fighting off Real to keep Lewa isn't cheap.

You guys haven't even broken the 50 million barrier. In the world of mega clubs with huge finances that's cheap-skating. Lewa came for free, no matter his wages it still won't cover what a player of that class normally goes for in the market. it's smart moves obviously, hence why the other poster said that Bayern is arguably the best run big club about. However i'm asking myself how replacing the key to Bayern's success over the years is going to go without big transfer fee's.

 

[el3mel]

Fredi Bobic is not pulling any punches at Frankfurt's press conference for the weekend match vs Leverkusen:

"Bayern did their thing and only thought about themselves. We now have to deal with the disturbances in these important weeks".

"That's a lack of respect and unprofessional"

"There was definitely no contact with Bayern. Everything went straight to the public, every detail. That's new to me in that form".

But the best bit is from Kovac:
"Last week I said that there was no contact with Bayern. Suddenly that changed. Yesterday I got a call and a contract offer from Munich"

Actually I'm starting to hope he fails miserably with Bayern now.

 

[strongwalker]

You guys haven't even broken the 50 million barrier. In the world of mega clubs with huge finances that's cheap-skating. Lewa came for free, no matter his wages it still won't cover what a player of that class normally goes for in the market. it's smart moves obviously, hence why the other poster said that Bayern is arguably the best run big club about. However i'm asking myself how replacing the key to Bayern's success over the years is going to go without big transfer fee's.

You think *any* agent is gonna say: Yeah bad luck for my client he's out of contract, so here you are mate, have him for free, good luck with the fella"? If a player is worth 80 Mio, 80 Mio will pass hands*). Just a slight variation in which pocket the money ends up.

*)unless the target club is british in which case it will be 2x that, or PSG - 3x that

 

[RW2]

Bayern are at home to Kovac's Eintracht Frankfurt later this month in between their two Champions League semi finals to Real Madrid. . . . I can think of few better times to play Bayern away.

 

[KM]

They're the world's biggest bellends when it comes to this stuff. Announce Gotze before the CL final and now have announced this before the season is over, inspite of knowing that Frankfurt have very important matches to play. Not a surprise that Frankfurt's general manager isn't happy. There's a lot to admire about Bayern as a club, this kind of shit is not.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Why is Bayern being perennial underachievers in the CL in the past 7 years such an avoided topic? There is no doubt they've had the playing personnel to win it more time's but if they don't this year, it'd be 1 title in that period despite being in the semi finals almost every year, pretty poor really.

 

[JarkiJarko]

They're the world's biggest bellends when it comes to this stuff. Announce Gotze before the CL final and now have announced this before the season is over, inspite of knowing that Frankfurt have very important matches to play. Not a surprise that Frankfurt's general manager isn't happy. There's a lot to admire about Bayern as a club, this kind of shit is not.

don't see anything wrong on Bayern's end tbh. Don't give your players/coaches release clauses if you can't handle it that someone will activate it.

 

[RW2]

It is really hard to take it like that as an Eintracht supporter. He was speaking again and again about „contracts aren‘t worth anything anymore - it is a shame in modern football. Spoken words mean nothing.“
In the last couple of weeks he said that he has a contract till end of June 19 and will be in Frankfurt next season for sure. How can anyone around the club accept an announcement like that one day before such an important game? DFB-Pokal semi final next week as well.

Don’t get me wrong: his move is understandable of course but that is going to cost him any kind of credit over here. Fully deserved!

I understand your frustration.

I don't see why Bayern & Kovac couldn't have come to a agreement and then announced it at the end of the season.

 

[do.ob]

Why is Bayern being perennial underachievers in the CL in the past 7 years such an avoided topic? There is no doubt they've had the playing personnel to win it more time's but if they don't this year, it'd be 1 title in that period despite being in the semi finals almost every year, pretty poor really.

I don't know why making the semis every year, except last where they were eliminated by the eventual winners in the QF, is called underachieveing. They have the third best squad in football and they finish shared 3rd place with it. If they had that necessary bit of luck against Atletico 2 years ago or against Real last year they might have won another CL, but at worst they are on par.

 

[JarkiJarko]

btw: Götze move even had to be announced as soon as it was done because Dortmund is listed on the stock exchange.

 

[3KDré]

They're the world's biggest bellends when it comes to this stuff. Announce Gotze before the CL final and now have announced this before the season is over, inspite of knowing that Frankfurt have very important matches to play. Not a surprise that Frankfurt's general manager isn't happy. There's a lot to admire about Bayern as a club, this kind of shit is not.

And they called us classless for Mourinho's treatment of Schweinsteiger.