Loublaze
ATLien
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 16,593
What if some of them were? They were 'armed' with rocks.None of them Hamas terrorists? Genuine question
What if some of them were? They were 'armed' with rocks.None of them Hamas terrorists? Genuine question
Water cannons, rubber bullets, tear gas are 3 optionsWhat would you propose ? The Israelis throwing rocks back at them ?
They tend to be a bit more useful than whistles and batons.Americans just love their guns don't they?
NoneNone of them Hamas terrorists? Genuine question
Water canons and rubber bullets are a good option.Water cannons, rubber bullets, tear gas are 3 options
That’s coming from someone who grew up in NI and saw a share of riots
And here's where we differ. The Israeli's are utterly unconvinced that the Palestinian cause is about peace more than destroying Israel. And I agree.Of course not - I get that there are a lot of legitimate concerns Israelis have in regards to Palestine, and that many of them would be happy to see a two-state solution. And as someone who's sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians I also recognise that it's not a clear-cut issue of good vs bad.
But I do think irrespective of what has happened inside Palestine there's also got to be a level of recognition that Israel consistently doing things like building illegal settlements or murdering Palestinian civilians isn't going to help solve anything. And will only continue to drive ordinary Palestinians to extreme groups like Hamas.
IsraelBut oppressed by whom?
I understand why you're unconvinced, because Hamas and a number of Arabic countries are well-known for their hostility towards Israel, and I understand that Israel would be wary of its own continuing existence if they feel they have to secede too much.And here's where we differ. The Israeli's are utterly unconvinced that the Palestinian cause is about peace more than destroying Israel. And I agree.
What perpetuates the conflict (more than straw man settlements) - and I include your side in this - is the convenient amnesia as to why we got here. The Palestinian refugee crisis must be blamed on the Arabs, both in 48 and 67. Simply put, if they never attacked with genocidal intent, there wouldn't be this mess AND there would have been a Palestine.
Why can't you accept this Cheesy?
I guess the calculation is that a lower casualty rate now will deter and prevent the bloodbath should tens of thousands breach the border. Clearly tear gas, rubber rounds and pamphlets haven't helped.I understand why you're unconvinced, because Hamas and a number of Arabic countries are well-known for their hostility towards Israel, and I understand that Israel would be wary of its own continuing existence if they feel they have to secede too much.
But they should also recognise that this is a problem that isn't really ever going to go away for them unless they genuinely intend on bombing Palestine into oblivion. And the more civilians they kill and the more illegal settlements they build, the more Palestinians are going to be more focused on revenge or fighting back as opposed to peace. Irrespective of your stance - what do you think Israel is actually hoping to achieve here? Irrespective of past conflicts and refugee crises and Hamas, it's a dreadful approach from Israel.
How does every other country habdle protests?What would you propose ? The Israelis throwing rocks back at them ?
You don't want to come off sounding like that, do you?What would you propose ? The Israelis throwing rocks back at them ?
Well said.The question is - why would Israel care about restraint? They have the White House Orangutan by the balls, so it doesn’t matter whether they kill 50, 500, 5000, what’s the most severe response they can expect? A UNSC resolution condemning their actions? It’ll just get veto’d by the US.
Let’s be honest, with a Trump White House they’re at liberty to take the gloves off. Unapologetically build more illegal settlements, swap the rubber bullets for high caliber ammunition, heck raze Gaza to the ground with a fire bombing barrage. Who’s going to do anything?
The Palestinians are on their own unfortunately, much to the glee of Hamas recruiters.
Very differently, but then again most of them aren't up against protests involving a group like Hamas. If this was just disgruntled students protesting tuition fees I'm sure the response would be quite different.How does every other country habdle protests?
Are you saying that Hamas effectively have martyrs at these events to inflame the situation and use it as a recruiting tool?Many killed in previous riots. This from March 31st's border clash...
Not just this white house, any white house, Israel have always been doing stuff like this without consequence.The question is - why would Israel care about restraint? They have the White House Orangutan by the balls, so it doesn’t matter whether they kill 50, 500, 5000, what’s the most severe response they can expect? A UNSC resolution condemning their actions? It’ll just get veto’d by the US.
Let’s be honest, with a Trump White House they’re at liberty to take the gloves off. Unapologetically build more illegal settlements, swap the rubber bullets for high caliber ammunition, heck raze Gaza to the ground with a fire bombing barrage. Who’s going to do anything?
The Palestinians are on their own unfortunately, much to the glee of Hamas recruiters.
If Hamas was involved in a serious way don't you think there would be some rockets flying into Israel? You cite their name as an excuse to murderVery differently, but then again most of them aren't up against protests involving a group like Hamas. If this was just disgruntled students protesting tuition fees I'm sure the response would be quite different.
Definetly yes. We see protests of this type all around the world, remember how France was a few years ago with all those burning cars anywhere?What would you propose ? The Israelis throwing rocks back at them ?
I doubt any there are many operations where there is absolutely zero involvement from Hamas.If Hamas was involved in a serious way don't you think there would be some rockets flying into Israel? You cite their name as an excuse to murder
What about this protest warranted such a response? Were the protestors armed with rockets or nuclear bombs?Very differently, but then again most of them aren't up against protests involving a group like Hamas. If this was just disgruntled students protesting tuition fees I'm sure the response would be quite different.
Agreed, but more so this one.Not just this white house, any white house, Israel have always been doing stuff like this without consequence.
Why does it matter? Would the students be throwing the same rocks? Why wouldn't Israel treat all of its citizens the same way?Very differently, but then again most of them aren't up against protests involving a group like Hamas. If this was just disgruntled students protesting tuition fees I'm sure the response would be quite different.
What sort of stand would you propose?The world needs to take a stand agains this, including (or rather, specially) our beloved European Union. At some point I will certainly be equally embarrassed by.our leaders that don't try to stop it, as I Am by the "other's" leaders that enable it.
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And nobody kills them like the Israelis.Nobody protests like the Palestinians
The answer to US foreign policy has been far too weak. It's a sort of "we don't agree with it" when we should be actively opposing it. I'm not proposing wars on Israel or anything like that, but I think we spend too much time crying about Trump instead of showing him off. I don't understand enough against politics or military to be more specific in regards to your answer, but I do have strong feeling about our roles.What sort of stand would you propose?
There's a slight difference between regular protests we see across the world and what's happening in Gaza - with which Israel is in a state of war - in that the entire impulse behind these protests is to remove the barrier preventing Gazans from entering Israel. So the issue goes beyond questions like "do Palestinians have a right to protest?" or "what is the appropriate response to rioting protestors?" to much bigger ones like "do Palestinians have the right to enter Israel as they please?" and "does Israel have a right to prevent Palestinians entering its territory?" And these are questions which go back to the fundamental dynamics driving the entire conflict, which is why most people will answer them in line with their broader view of the conflict.Definetly yes. We see protests of this type all around the world, remember how France was a few years ago with all those burning cars anywhere?
A modern country has the means to curb this without unnecessary massacres.