It's time for this debate to end, Ronaldo always has been the better of the two. He gets questioned because of his ego and the fact he used to play for us. The way Ronaldo carries the Portugal team is remarkable.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
It was one of the biggest games in Portugal history. Portugal-Spain in a World Cup...
Morocco and Iran are pretty good teams too and Portugal has problems breaking down teams. If we lose by 3 or 4 yesterday I guarantee you we'd have been knocked out of the group stages just like we were in 2014 after losing 4-0 to Germany. Portugal isn't Argentina.
Scored 4 in 2014 (1 vs Bosnia, 1 vs Iran, 2 vs nigeria)
Didnt include before 06/07 as they were both just inconsistent youngsters before then and 06-07 was when Ronaldo turned into one of the best in the world and Messi was on the verge of becoming that. But yeah, agreed though. Still valid as an example though as Argentina wouldnt have been close to the final of Messi wasnt there while its shitty for Ronaldo he was injured, but I dont think you would hear him use that as an excuse and he wouldve been gutted anyway. Like you said, in 2014 there was nobody who really had a memorable world cup throughout. Even robben who was class didnt really much in the knockout rounds. We'll see how this one goes, and if anything, itll go further then anything in potentially making a decision between them. Ronaldo with the advantage, but it's been 1 game. Without anything significant like a clear player of the tournament or winning it, I dont think much will change in their legacies though. They're both just locked in for me as top 2.
Just enjoy them both, it's neither here nor there whose better. They will both go down in the history books.
I think something was lost in translation because I don't see the link between your point and mine at all. I agree with what you're saying though.
Does Evra have a disproportionately huge head or is something wrong with the video?
On paper Argentina win against Portugal more often than now. They literally have 4-5 world class forwards.
Give me Quaresma and Ronaldo over any of the Argies though
Lol imagine actually thinking Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi. Like, imagine actually genuinely thinking that lol
Something with the video is clearly off.Does Evra have a disproportionately huge head or is something wrong with the video?
As to the topic at hand, I've always been Team Messi and still am, but I must say Ronaldo has been VERY impressive these last few years with how he seemingly always is there to deliver in the big games. Something just doesn't work out between Messi and the NT. The Argentina team has always been a bit of a disappointment, though. Maradona was the only one who could lift that team up. Messi needs a WC gold to eclipse him, atleast in Argentina.
edit: Let's not forget Mario Kempes who was a great player as well.
Messi has broken the all-time calendar year goalscoring record as a forward, he was by far the best player in the world as a winger, and he now tops La Liga in literally every statistical category playing as a number 10. He is, and has been, far more flexible than Ronaldo, and quite obviously has a far superior skillset. If you're comparing the two as footballers over their career as whole, there really is no comparison. That's why, as I said, Messi has been Spanish player of the year nine times, and Ronaldo has won it once. Because Messi is far better. It should be a massive compliment to Ronaldo that he's even compared to Messi because Muller was never compared to Cruyff.
It's also kind of hilarious that people on here are now claiming that Ronaldo is better than Messi because of one free-kick when Messi already broke the La Liga free-kick record this year, has a much better record as a free-kick taker than Ronaldo, and this is the first time Ronaldo has hit the target from a free-kick in absolutely ages. He's basically a liability taking free-kicks most of the time, he was due to score one.
Well he is, no need to imagine it.
Where was Ronaldo in the last 3 World Cups? Did you miss Argentina making the final in 2014? Messi winning the golden ball?
No of course not, Ronaldo played better in the opening game of the group stages so it's all forgotten about.
Such short memories. We've had 10 years of watching these guys now but apparently, you're only as good as your most recent game.
The same Messi who cried off the Argentina team for a while eh?Where was Ronaldo in the last 3 World Cups? Did you miss Argentina making the final in 2014? Messi winning the golden ball?
No of course not, Ronaldo played better in the opening game of the group stages so it's all forgotten about.
Such short memories. We've had 10 years of watching these guys now but apparently, you're only as good as your most recent game.
Does Evra have a disproportionately huge head or is something wrong with the video?
Messi really wasn't that good in the last World Cup.Where was Ronaldo in the last 3 World Cups? Did you miss Argentina making the final in 2014? Messi winning the golden ball?
No of course not, Ronaldo played better in the opening game of the group stages so it's all forgotten about.
Such short memories. We've had 10 years of watching these guys now but apparently, you're only as good as your most recent game.
Even he looked embarrassed when he was given the Golden Ball.
Yep, this is a good summary. Messi might have had a higher peak but Ronaldo's legacy moments are going to be fresher in our minds. Plus I think Ronaldo's relentless narcissism lends itself better for perceptions of greatness. Take yesterday, the whole routine before his freekick - built himself up and then delivered. Or the Euro 2016 Final: he had no role to play but still got people talking about him with his antics on the touchline.
what a weird statement. Ronaldo probably has more hat-tricks than both morocco and iran's players have goals. Portugal are considerably better than morocco and iran and at the very worst they should have been expecting no less than 6 points from this group. the fact spain and portugal met first in a group theyll both easily get out of takes some gloss off this game. He didn't own spain, in order to do that you need to win. thats just a fact. I think given the fact that they had two days with their new manager and didn't get beat in the first game v the second best team in the group would go down as quite a decent result for the spanish players.
It was kind of bizarre. I thought Mascherano was clearly the best player.
Still a better World Cup than any Ronaldo has had so far.
So why doesn't someone else take penalty kicks for Argentina? Messi is consistently not great at them. I think that says something.
in 4 of the 7 games he was quite clearly the best player on the park. only james rodriguez came close to him in 2014 but the award has to go to the one who made the final.
Same here.
He literally only won because all of the Germans were at the same level in their team so they couldn't choose one of them to win.
Messi was better than his Argentine team mates by a long way but that was just further highlighted today because he didn't show up and they were shite.
Having said that, I remember Mascherano being a warrior, especially in the semis. He was better than Messi.
Ronaldo’s performances have been evidence above that Ronaldo has been turning the tide in this debate, but nothing has been more evidence of this than posts like those above, which is probably the 10th+ version of the same type of post I’ve been seeing across forums these past few months.
The exchange is usually some variation of this:
“How can you think Ronaldo is better? LOL”
“Ya know, I used to think Messi was better too, but when you actually look at the following list of achievements (aka evidence), both team and individual, both club and national team,performances in big games, in the CL, etc. etc. Ronaldo is the winner in my opinion.”
....
“How can you think Ronaldo is better? LOL”
Nobody in Portugal says Eusebio had a bigger impact for Portugal than Ronaldo these days, not even 90 year old Benfica fans. Eusebio had a better tournament, that World Cup in 1966 was unbelievable and I watched all the games myself but Ronaldo's longevity for the national team surpasses that easily.
Eusebio had better teammates around him too, just like all of those names you mentioned. I think outside of Portugal, people don't really have any notion of what Ronaldo's been for Portugal and it's a shame.
Ronaldo not being the focal point of the attack and still doing what he does is actually a plus for the teams he plays for though, he doesn't really need to see a lot of the ball at his feet to make a difference.
Football has changed, having a focal point of the attack is mostly a negative thing nowadays and it becomes a lot easier to stop teams. Argentina need Messi to have less influence than what he does and this season it's been the same for Barcelona even if the results were very good. It will work often because Messi is that good but defering so much to one player is bad for the team.
I wouldn't say probably. But it's way more probable Eder woudln't have missed the sitter Higuain missed in the final.
You realize that he is the active player with most free kicks scored?
0:51, 4:11, 9:40. Totally his fault we went out, what a stinker of a game, did barely anything.
Nevermind he already carried that team to Semis with 8 goals in the 4 previous games.
Yeah, another uninspirational game by Messi, he only asked Julio Cesar to wonderfully stop a screamer (4:13), or served Bojan with a perfect cross for him to screw up (9:52). Maybe if he stopped dribbling 1vs3 to complete 8 dribbles in a UCL Semifinal and scored more, his team would win!. Completing 8 dribbles in a Semifinal game when guys like Neymar or Hazard attempt 7 per game is a total sign of underperforming, as you have said.
April, 2nd, Messi plays 45' vs PSG, scores one, leaves injured
April, 10th, Messi subs in for 28' vs PSG (injured) creates the chance of the goal that put us through
April 23rd, plays 90' in Barcelona's 4-0 loss vs Bayern, despite not playing for almost 3 weeks in La Liga,
May, 1st, misses 2nd leg vs Bayern (still injured but benched)
'Messi had to play injured because Barcelona proved to be dire without him vs PSG, but was anonymous in a big game'
Revan's resume of Barcelona's UCL downfalls "You know, Leo was the best player in his team, asked Cech and Julio Cesar to make legendary saves to stop him, even assisted in goals or created clear cut chances, but Barcelona were eliminated because HE underperformed, not the other 10 players".
"Oh, and that season where he put a subpar team in UCL Semis playing injured vs PSG? He was so anonymous that he even got benched!".
Messi is definitely very poor on penalties btw, should be Aguero taking it for Argentina.
That's a good question but I'm not sure the answer is quite so self-explanatory. Either Messi wants to do everything, and what I'm saying is utterly rubbish, or Messi's team-mates what him to do everything. They're the two reasons he would take all of the penalties. Also I don't think they actually have any other good penalty takers, weirdly. Can't remember that being a strength of any of their strikers anyway?
It's really clear that his team-mates rely on him. He is the go-to player for everything. Ultimately what I was suggesting was that I think Messi is uncomfortable with that reality, whereas I think Ronaldo craves it.
Yeah class, lets definite their careers in a 24 hour period. Great arguement.
"Owned Spain". They drew. Calm the feck down. It was a phenomenal performance by Ronaldo, one that'll go down as one of the greatest individual performances in World Cup history. But seriously, he didn't guide Portugal to victory.
All of these players benefit from a mythology that is now attached to them, and the fact that they didn't have to play in modern football, where even someone like Iceland are a more than competent team, and the game is just a lot tighter and it's much harder for individual players to stand out. Also, for example, although Cruyff was a great player, the Netherlands never won a major title while he was in the team. Ronaldo has won a major trophy at international level, although his performances in that tournament were no better than decent, while Messi was instrumental in the three major finals that Argentina have reached.
You're not going to get one player dragging a team through a tournament nowadays. Ronaldo has had one standout game because he's a great player, but he quite possibly won't have another one in this tournament. When Portugal won the Euros, they did it because their defence was outstanding. And this is the primary reason why I would give Argentina absolutely no chance of winning this World Cup; their defence is dreadful. It won't matter what Messi does, not that it's realistic to expect one player to make the difference in a major international tournament comprising all of the best teams and players in the world.
Messi was man of the match in the first four matches of the last World Cup, and he still got criticised. It's because we set unrealistic expectations for these players, as we watch all of their games. Ronaldo too now, because he's set the bar so high, if he has a quiet game later in the tournament all of the pundits will start saying "why has Ronaldo gone missing?". Which is just an unfair level of expectation of an outstanding forward. Whereas in the past, the top foreign players were more mysterious and magisterial as we'd rarely, if ever, seen them before.
This dude just called Ronaldo a "limited player"
Muller and Robben were better too (especially the later).
Diego Forlan won the award in 2010, despite not reaching the final.
he reached the semi's though, rodriguez only the quarters. if colombia made the semi's would have been a travesty not to give james the award.
Nah, you see, Messi was awful the past WC, he scored 4 goals that gave Argentina 8 of his 9 points, but it was just group phase. Yesterday Ronaldo proved he's better at international level because he scored 3, doesn't matter it was also group phase, or that they amount to 1 point, he did it yesterday, not 4 years ago, and Portugal still haven't lost this WC final, so he's totally better than Leo.
Tbh I copied and pasted a few sentences from a point I made a few years ago because I was lazy but thought it was still relevant. Ronaldo's achievement in the Euros does put him in a different position now to then. Personally I'd say it allows him to be excluded from the discussion, rather than celebrated within it, but we can agree to disagree there. Comparing his influence to Eusébio's, when talking about their contribution at the highest level of international football, seems utterly absurd to me. But I definitely don't have any interest in having that kind of discussion with someone who identifies so strongly with one of those players.
So Ronaldo scores a couple of goals and suddenly he is better than Messi even though "everyone knows that Messi is a better passer, dribbler, and free-kick taker than Ronaldo, has better control, creates more chances, gets more assists, contributes far more to the game, and scores more difficult goals, far more regularly"
Why should Ronaldo be considered better than Messi?
Why should Ronaldo be considered better than Messi?
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status