Why are we buying a CB when it's arguably our strongest position?

[Stacks]

because our gaffa does not trust his own CB signings so must sign a shiny new one every summer

 

[Bastian]

You honestly think Jose would play out from the back? His defenders are specifically told to do the opposite and look for the long ball.


‘Ohhh that’s why we’re playing shit football because the defenders can’t pass’ give me a break.

Were you asking me, or was it rhetorical so you could answer yourself?

 

[RepardReece]

We have 4/5 good quality CB in Bailly,Smalling,Lindelof,Jones/Rojo.

Yes they can be improved upon, but we had a very good defensive record last year, defending isn't our problem.

We only had a good defensive record because of David De Gea. Look at how many shots he had to save, that says it all really. If De Gea ever has a bad day, United are conceding 2/3 goals in that game. IMO Rojo and Jones need to go, with Alderweireld / Boateng / whoever else coming in.

But that said we do need a RW desperately, and a full back or two.

 

[breakout67]

You honestly think Jose would play out from the back? His defenders are specifically told to do the opposite and look for the long ball.


‘Ohhh that’s why we’re playing shit football because the defenders can’t pass’ give me a break.

So apparently any team that doesn't pass out from the back is playing shite football?

 

[Castia]

So apparently any team that doesn't pass out from the back is playing shite football?

Nope but we play shit football and that’s all I care about.

 

[breakout67]

Nope but we play shit football and that’s all I care about.

You know Mourinho isn't telling his defenders to aimlessly hoof the ball right? He is telling them to fire it into the channels, hit it straight to the striker to hold it up, or behind the defensive line for a player to run onto.

Liverpool are quite good at long balls, yet they have this perception of being swashbuckling. A major part of their attacking play is long balls to their forwards.

It's safe to say that getting someone like Alderweireld would improve our attacking play as our direct passing would be much more reliable and effective.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

We have 4/5 good quality CB in Bailly,Smalling,Lindelof,Jones/Rojo.

Yes they can be improved upon, but we had a very good defensive record last year, defending isn't our problem.

As we know our lack of goals is a big problem, without Lukaku we struggle to score consistently. Watching this team there's a stand out position we need desperate improvement.

RW -

This is a huge problem area for me. The only player remotely able to play there is Mata. While we have control of a match and possession he can be effective drifting across the front line, but in matches where it's even or we're struggling to keep the ball he is just pointless. He isn't an individual threat, he can't carry the ball up the pitch at any dangerous speed.

With Sanchez/Rashford/Martial all wanting to cut inside and shoot, having another player that wants to come inside just doesn't work. We need to have somebody keep the width and provide an option to switch play.

Yes people will say "but our fullbacks provide the width", while they can often by the point they join the attack it's already slowed down.

IMO I feel Mourinho wanted Willian this year, but Chelsea have played hardball and Woodward won't pay 70m (quite rightly).

We need a skilful/speedy ball carrier that would really give new life to this team.

Mahrez (would have been perfect) / Bailey / Sarr / Dembele / Zaha / Perisic would all improve this team so much.

I really hope they've got a surprise in the bag for us in the last week of the window.

We absolutely do need a top ball playing CB.Having a CB who can carry the ball forward\pass out from the back changes the entire dynamic of the team.Our central defenders are very very poor at distributing the ball and because they can’t make the transition from defence to midfield,it slows our play down.

Lindelof was supposed to be our ball playing CB but unfortunately he hasn’t really clicked so far.We definitely need a ball playing CB...

 

[Castia]

You know Mourinho isn't telling his defenders to aimlessly hoof the ball right? He is telling them to fire it into the channels, hit it straight to the striker to hold it up, or behind the defensive line for a player to run onto.

Liverpool are quite good at long balls, yet they have this perception of being swashbuckling. A major part of their attacking play is long balls to their forwards.

It's safe to say that getting someone like Alderweireld would improve our attacking play as our direct passing would be much more reliable and effective.

We smash the bell upto Lukaku or Fellaini and basically let them deal with it there’s no gameplay around that what so ever it’s shite and 99% of the time leads to nothing, let’s not pretend it’s some amazing feature of our play that the defenders aren’t getting right....Jesus somebody defending Jose’s hoof it tactics.

 

[RedCurry]

Because I RW targets are a joke. Bale, who was always unrealistic unless we really wanted to splash the cash. Then there was Willian who is average as they come for exorbitant price.

We’re either looking for work horses or world class attacking player in the one position we desperately. You know, some other team would get a decently talented player at a reasonable price and fit them there. We seem quite incapable of even targeting, let alone buying such players.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Because a RW or CF won't help park Jose's bus..

 

[spiriticon]

Our starting CB pairing should be Bailly and Lindelof. Even if they are average, Jose should have faith in his own goddamn players instead of signing one CB every year. They are not Pokemon cards to collect ffs.

 

[breakout67]

We smash the bell upto Lukaku or Fellaini and basically let them deal with it there’s no gameplay around that what so ever it’s shite and 99% of the time leads to nothing, let’s not pretend it’s some amazing feature of our play that the defenders aren’t getting right....Jesus somebody defending Jose’s hoof it tactics.

The hoof it tactics that he never used at previous clubs??? Do you think he made special exception to United to abandon his use of the long ball to all areas of the pitch just to make fans angry?

The long ball for attackers to run onto has been a feature of every Mourinho side. Di Maria was regularly on the end of those, as was Ronaldo. At Chelsea it was usually Oscar or Costa.

Mourinho is not a route-1 manager, if he was genuinely telling them to aimless hoof in the general direction we would be far worse off than we are.

 

[Toad]

Everything about the club seems to be a shambles at the moment. It doesn’t matter if we get a CB, a RM or a LB/RB, with these tactics I fear another season out of the CL.

 

[sullydnl]

As has been mentioned already in this thread, De Gea had to make an abnormally high number of saves last year. 39% higher that the combined average of the prior three seasons, in which he was already regarded as one of our most important players. Compare his 116 saves to Ederson's 58 and you get some idea of why we might feel our goalkeeper was papering over cracks in our defence that really need to be addressed.

 

[lex talionis]

I'm in the camp that believes that at this point RW is our weakest position.

But it's also the case that there are questions with every one of CBs, even if it is undeniably the case that every one of them is pretty decent.

Bailly. Two seasons ago he was sensational. He's the best of our CBs but he has yet to recover his 16/17 form. We need to stick with him.

Lindeolof. Still unproven in the EPL. There's potential but we haven't seen greatness from him yet.

Rojo. Erratic and injury prone. When he's good, he's great, but he may not have the chops to play at a high level for 7 or 8 matches straight.

Smalling. Worth keeping, but not reliable enough to be a first choice CB.

Jones. Too prone to injury and too prone to bad mistakes. A decent squad man but not much more.

Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe. Too early to say and we're not in a position to rely on them very heavily.

A top CB like Alderwiereld makes a lot of sense, provided we let two of the above (Rojo and Jones for me) go.

 

[sherrinford]

We smash the bell upto Lukaku or Fellaini and basically let them deal with it there’s no gameplay around that what so ever it’s shite and 99% of the time leads to nothing, let’s not pretend it’s some amazing feature of our play that the defenders aren’t getting right....Jesus somebody defending Jose’s hoof it tactics.

So you seriously think that our defenders lumping the ball forward into an area that gives none of our attacking players a chance to do anything with, is an actual tactic that Mourinho is employing? The defenders are merely carrying out instructions and Mourinho is chuffed to bits with us cheaply conceding possession this way - it’s what he was looking for?

Ok then...

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Bailly, Jones and Rojo are injury prone. Lindelof yet to impress, although he needs time. That leaves only Smalling as our only reliable centre back.

That said, if Jose is thinking of playing three at the back on a more consistent basis and rumours that one or two defenders may be getting sold, then centre back does become a priority.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

None of the players we have been linked with even remotely resemble this.

Very few players in history do.

I was referring to a classic CB pair, not to one player.

Anyway, it was in response to something said above, it had nothing to do with current transfer targets.

 

[Rams]

We-ell...no. I don't think it's a waste if the player is an actual upgrade. Upgrade is upgrade.

But if José chases a «ball player» as such, because he thinks it will dramatically improve us * - then, yeah, he's better off chasing that infamous «attacking coach» people want us to hire.

And, yes - of course I'd like a smooth bastard as part of a pairing back there. Brains and brawn, steel and silk - a classic combo is what any red blooded old grump wants to see.

* He doesn't. It's the Caf's idea, not his.

He’s already said he wants a CB. I think he’s looking for a different type of CB to the ones he’s got. And he’s trying to put pressure on the men above. Maybe a bit of mind games in there. It’s the only explanation for his tw@tish behavior. He deserves the sack.

 

[Klopp_De_Klown]

Oh wow.

All 5 of our centre backs are injury prone and error prone. It’s like bambi on ice back there at times. Is it not obvious that we employ a defensive system bring 10 men minimum behind the ball?

Is it not what everyone is complaining about, how negative we play. What some of the players are supposedly unhappy about, being restricted in a defensive system?

So what’s puzzling me is, if we have such good defenders why are we pulling back 9 men to mark 6? Why do we need this, albeit very successful, defensive system?

 

[Mainoldo]

You know Mourinho isn't telling his defenders to aimlessly hoof the ball right? He is telling them to fire it into the channels, hit it straight to the striker to hold it up, or behind the defensive line for a player to run onto.

Liverpool are quite good at long balls, yet they have this perception of being swashbuckling. A major part of their attacking play is long balls to their forwards.

It's safe to say that getting someone like Alderweireld would improve our attacking play as our direct passing would be much more reliable and effective.

Well someone should tell him let his midfielders press instead of holding position. It might help.

 

[Canagel]

I keep seeing messages that we need this center half and that center half, but the real issue is the lack of width thoughout the team. Our full backs and players out wide cant to beat their man hench the play is so slow. Were vidic and rio any better passers than lindelof or bailly? They had paddy running down the wing and giggs, rooney tevez and ronaldo who could beat their man. We do need better center halfs but i dont think they will make that much of a difference if we don't get better players out wide.

This. We don't have any players who can beat man except for Martial. We can buy as many centre backs as we want but things won't change until we get new fullbacks and a top RW.

 

[redom]

Our defense can definitely be improved, even when we sit back and stay compact I don't think we look overly convincing and I often feel like it's a matter of time before we concede (or De Gea bails us out) but I'd prefer us to go with the old philosophy of "the best form of defense is attack".

 

[Castia]

So you seriously think that our defenders lumping the ball forward into an area that gives none of our attacking players a chance to do anything with, is an actual tactic that Mourinho is employing? The defenders are merely carrying out instructions and Mourinho is chuffed to bits with us cheaply conceding possession this way - it’s what he was looking for?

Ok then...

Well he’s obviously telling them to clear the ball away that’s for certain, we have 5 regular CB’s including 2 he’s bought and they all do the same, even De Gea 9 times out of 10 goes long to Lukaku or Fellaini. We have virtually no build up play from either defence or midfield.

Fecking hell like the missing piece to all our worries is a ball playing defender...weird how he’s bought 2 and neither play anything like that.

Let’s give him another £100m for 2 defenders that can pass a ball, why the hell didn’t he buy them in the first place?

You’ll be telling me Martial and Pogba aren’t being told to drop back and defend every game next.

 

[redIndianDevil]

The hoof it tactics that he never used at previous clubs??? Do you think he made special exception to United to abandon his use of the long ball to all areas of the pitch just to make fans angry?

The long ball for attackers to run onto has been a feature of every Mourinho side. Di Maria was regularly on the end of those, as was Ronaldo. At Chelsea it was usually Oscar or Costa.

Mourinho is not a route-1 manager, if he was genuinely telling them to aimless hoof in the general direction we would be far worse off than we are.

So why is no one running after the long balls here at United? Didn't Mourinho instruct the attackers to run after the long balls? Not one of our defenders aim when they hoof it, did you see the Bayern friendly? Also Mourinho really has to be the most stupid manager ever if he asks his defenders to make accurate long balls to forwards, no defender is that good.

 

[Castia]

The hoof it tactics that he never used at previous clubs??? Do you think he made special exception to United to abandon his use of the long ball to all areas of the pitch just to make fans angry?

The long ball for attackers to run onto has been a feature of every Mourinho side. Di Maria was regularly on the end of those, as was Ronaldo. At Chelsea it was usually Oscar or Costa.

Mourinho is not a route-1 manager, if he was genuinely telling them to aimless hoof in the general direction we would be far worse off than we are.

But our attackers are so fecking deep because there expected to be full backs whilst not in possession it’s not ever going to work. Martial is at LB and Pogba DM that the only player available to play it long is Lukaku.

It’s counter productive and pretty embarrassing the way we play it’s a bore fest and that’s being kind.

 

[Ekeke]

Because we don't seem to value what we have but arent looking to improve on the areas where we are weakest like left back and right wing

 

[Chillosophy]

Wouldnt say it our strongest position, centre midfield is now in my opinion. Our defenders arent great, it's just that our approach is defensive.

 

[sherrinford]

Well he’s obviously telling them to clear the ball away that’s for certain, we have 5 regular CB’s including 2 he’s bought and they all do the same, even De Gea 9 times out of 10 goes long to Lukaku or Fellaini. We have virtually no build up play from either defence or midfield.

Fecking hell like the missing piece to all our worries is a ball playing defender...weird how he’s bought 2 and neither play anything like that.

Let’s give him another £100m for 2 defenders that can pass a ball, why the hell didn’t he buy them in the first place?

You’ll be telling me Martial and Pogba aren’t being told to drop back and defend every game next.

We don’t play Bayern or Madrid every week. We will play against teams that are more reactive and where we will have more established possession, and who quite simply and bluntly aren’t clearly superior sides to us and won’t have us so hopelessly pinned back.

We do struggle to build play from the back, but to say that all they look to do is clear their lines and lump the ball forward, game after game all season is grossly inaccurate. And to say it’s an instruction - to hoof the ball to up the park as a standard tactic - is grossly inaccurate.

 

[Castia]

We don’t play Bayern or Madrid every week. We will play against teams that are more reactive and where we will have more established possession, and who quite simply and bluntly aren’t clearly superior sides to us and won’t have us so hopelessly pinned back.

We do struggle to build play from the back, but to say that all they look to do is clear their lines and lump the ball forward, game after game all season is grossly inaccurate. And to say it’s an instruction - to hoof the ball to up the park as a standard tactic - is grossly inaccurate.

It's not wrong, every game last season proves that.

Both the goalkeeper and all of our 5 defenders clear the ball out 99% of the time. We hardly ever play out from the back.

It's mainly because our players are so deep, he expects the wingers to drop back and then you have Pogba and Matic stuck in defensive midfield we have nobody but Lukaku upfront, I'm not saying he's going route 1 Big Sam style but he's instructed the defenders to play it long.

 

[Nori-]

I don't think our defence is as great as we like to think. Yes the stats suggest it is but De Gea has to take credit for a lot of that. So many times we could have been losing or let in equalisers and he's pulled off unbelievable saves.

Apart from Eric Bailly, we don't really have any great CB's. Smalling had one great season under LVG and not hit that level since. Jones and Lindelof are always one mistake away from conceding a goal and Rojo just isn't good enough as a first choice.

We need to buy one top CB, and sort out the Shaw situation.

 

[Krakenzero]

The issue with RW can be solved changing the system into one that doesn't use a RW. You can't do that with the CBs issue (the issue being an abundance of average, below average and/or injury prone players in that position).

 

[hobbers]

Our defence is fairly shit. Smalling isn't good enough on the ball, Jones has too many injury problems, both are very prone to lapses in concentration at key times. Lindelof isn't there yet. Rojo's on his way out the club. Bailly is the best of a mediocre bunch but he also has fitness issues.

Although we do have better centrebacks than full backs, that is a beyond question.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Bailly and Lindelof would be an ideal partnership if we played with a higher line.

 

[jmaggio]

Totally agree with the sentiment of OP. People under rate how reliable our CBs have been when compared with the rest of our squad.

Whilst it would be nice to have a quality CB, we are in dire need of a RW and a quality full back.

 

[Raoul]

Totally agree with the sentiment of OP. People under rate how reliable our CBs have been when compared with the rest of our squad.

Whilst it would be nice to have a quality CB, we are in dire need of a RW and a quality full back.

Agreed. There's always a sort of grass is greener on the other side mindset that creeps into whether or not we need to buy for a particular position. We have 5 capable CBs who can do a job for us and have intermittently done very well over the years. We need to get them playing at a high level and the problem will be sorted.

 

[jmaggio]

Agreed. There's always a sort of grass is greener on the other side mindset that creeps into whether or not we need to buy for a particular position. We have 5 capable CBs who can do a job for us and have intermittently done very well over the years. We need to get them playing at a high level and the problem will be sorted.

Exactly. The problem in there has never been a settled CB pairing so that chemistry which is so desperately needed between defenders has never materialised- no wonder they look uncomfortable now and then !

 

[BluesJr]

We have been decent defensively but let's face it, De Gea faces way too many shots and it's panic stations way too often back there when we're up against it. We do need a leader back there who can be calm under pressure and come out with the ball/use it effectively.

 

[Casanova85]

So, is Jones a top top player?

Don't think so...

 

[SpyLuke10]

Tier 1 - Starting XI quality: Bailly.

Tier 2 - Squad quality: Smalling and Lindelof.

Tier 3 - Probably squad quality but injury prone: Rojo and Jones.

We have plenty of depth at centre back but not enough quality. We are massively in need of another tier 1 centre back. Losing one of the injury prone ones in Rojo and Jones and bringing in a definite tier 1 defender in Alderweireld or Maguire would improve us massively, going forward as well because those two are both good at passing out from the back and cos they are better defenders Jose would give the team more license to attack with them in the team than without. Think of how much more attacking we have looked when Bailly has been in the team.

We CANNOT however bring in someone like Mina, who is tier 2 at the absolute best and like I said we have no issues with quantity, we need quality. As for Boateng, while he might be tier 1, he is injury prone AF, so no thankyou. Bailly's most recent season was injury riddled for him, but overall he is not an injury prone player, only last season he was injured a lot. Alderweireld's case is similar to Bailly's.

Of course, a left back and a right winger are obviously glaring needs, and should be priority no. 1 and 2 respectively imo. But for me getting a quality centre back is the next most important thing after these two and I sure as hell won't complain if we do sell Rojo and sign Toby or Harry.

In fact, I think these 3 positions, centre back, left back and right mid/wing are the only 3 positions that we really need an injection of quality in. With a quality player in each of these 3 positions there should be no excuses for not challenging for the league and even in europe imo.

What do I think will happen? I think we will complete our centre back business, that is, I think Rojo will leave and we will sign Maguire or Alderweireld in to replace him. I think there will only be 1 signing at most after that. I'm hoping that we can land Perisic as this one signing. Why? Because he is one of the few players out there who could be a right winger for us or a left back, well, more specifically a left-wing back. I think Perisic could be our left wingback in a 3-5-2/5-3-2, and a damn good one at that too!

tldr: If we get rid of one of our tier 3 centre backs (see above) and replace them with a tier 1 centre back such as Toby or Maguire, then I think that would be excellent business. Also, what do people think about the idea of Perisic signing for us to play as a left wing-back in a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation?