Why are we buying a CB when it's arguably our strongest position?

[royboy16]

DDG helped in contributing a lot to those low amount of goals conceded also.

I'm only guessing but its possible other positions are too expensive and JM isnt 100 happy with his current defenders(injuries,didnt work out) and would have looked at upgrades next season anyway but has decided that If he cant get a wide player this season,its better to improve the back 4 this season than leave it as it is and not sign anyone.

 

[royboy16]

It's down to De Gea that our defensive record is passable, how people cant understand this is beyond me. Breaking down our CB's

Bailly - good but injury prone
Lindelof - potentially good but still showing signs of needing to settle
Smalling - ok but certainly not good enough
Jones - see above plus always injured
Rojo - same as above

For a Jose Mourinho team that wants to play counter attacking football the above just isn't good enough

Yeap, plus there is not a proper settled partnership with those either.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

The defence needs to be strengthened, but by full backs first IMO. You'd think a club of this size would be able to buy a solid full back and centre back in one window, but apparently not.

Young, Shaw, Valencia and Darmian (I'd be surprised if Dalot plays much 1st team football this season) is a pretty underwhelming bank of full backs, and I quite like Valencia and Young, but I'd rather see them deputise those positions, and bring in more threatening full backs to play more regularly. At this stage, I'd prefer to see Fosu Mensah at RB than Darmian, as I'd rather see a young, overly-enthusiastic player make mistakes than watch Darmian do absolutely nothing. I very much hope we move Darmian on before Thursday just so he is no longer an option, but it's doubtful. Nobody wants him!

Right wing is a problem too. We've needed one since we looked set to get Pedro from Barca. That fell through and then we didn't go back for one again, 3 full seasons ago.

 

[royboy16]

I think we much more lack a player who is good on the ball in our defense and can open attacking plays from the back. Non of our defenders posses that ability which is part of the reason our build up is so god damn slow.

Yeap, Il add to that,we lack a captain too.

 

[Josep Dowling]

It's not our strongest position but it's certainly not our weakest.

And this is my biggest problem with signing another CB.

RW should have been priority from the very beginning of the season. Then both wing backs.

 

[goin4glory]

Because we need ball playing CB's not the hoof merchants we currently have. Mourinho has said in interveiws our midfield is "playing on an island" which is referring to how isolated they are. People wonder why Pogba looks so much better for France and can't figure out he has two of the best ball playing CB's in world football behind him building attacks and stepping into MF when necessary. Lindelof was brought in to be the CB we needed but has completely shit the bed whereas Bailly can't stay fit. Mourinho knows the attributes and skillset needed to change the dynamic of this team and this is a priority. Fred will give us the ability to transition from back to front/break the lines which should really help our attacking play too.

 

[Kapardin]

Jose probably thinks lack of a ball playing CB hampers our playing style and it will enable more fluid play. Plus we conceded silly goals from set pieces regularly in the second half of last season. Almost resembled pre-VvD Liverpool at times.

 

[JK-27]

I hear a lot of people saying we need a new CB who can play with the ball. What exactly do they mean by this? There is no CB I know who get the ball then goes on a 30 yard run dribbling past players and laying off the ball that puts a striker in a goal scoring opportunity. So what exactly are people expecting? I expect a defender to not be scared of the ball and to lay it off to the midfield and that is not a hard task by anyone's standard, not a task that requires spending £80 million.

 

[noodlehair]

Well yeah that is true. But if we are hellbent on doing that then even the quality of the defence doesn't matter that much. That sort of football takes you nowhere even if you have Ferdinand and Vidic at CB.

This is true. I just don't think the fundamental problems with how we play have much to do with us not having adequate attacking players.

We don't use the ones we have correctly as we spend so much time not even trying to pass the ball to them. Signing another one wouldn't help this anymore than signing a centre back would.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I think both Bailly and Lindelof will make it here. Yet they're both 2 years away from having enough about them to play as a pair.

Similarly to Johnny Evans looking phenomenal alongside Rio or Vidic, the pair we have need a steady hand next to them.

If we got that player, I'd expect to see Rojo leave overseas this summer.

That's why we need another centre half. Sadly.

 

[whatwha]

Because Mourinho is a defensively minded cnut. I see no reason to believe that our play would improve significantly if we had a better CB.

 

[M23]

It's not our strongest position but it's certainly not our weakest.

And this is my biggest problem with signing another CB.

RW should have been priority from the very beginning of the season. Then both wing backs.

CB is easily our weakest position, when you consider it's at the core of the team and most successful teams are built around a strong defense.

Smalling and Jones are accidents waiting to happen and should be at a bottom half football club.

Jury's out on Lindeloff, Bailly is too injury prone.

We need to address this position and address it quick.

 

[stevoc]

Because;
1) all our defenders are average( at best)
2) neither of them except lindelof, can't do simple pass

So because they are all shit, we must play defensive football. When we play open football they are exposed and can't deal with that. Because they are absolutely shit with the ball we can't play from defence like many clubs do. Put a little pressure on mike or phil, they will hoof the ball.
That is why we need toby or some other ball playing defender and should pay for him what it takes even we all now it is not real price.
We all want attacking football, right? For that you need ball playing defenders. You can have ronaldo and messi on wings but if you have defenders who will always hoof ball then those wingers are useless

No we play defensive football because the coach is the club currently employs is a defensive minded manager, he always has been. Signing a centre back who can pick a nice pass is not going to change that at all. If thats what you are expecting you will be disappointed by the end of this window and going into this season.

 

[M23]

Boateng would be nothing more than a panic buy. He's very average and in my opinion, no better than what we've got. Arguably worse.

 

[Andycoleno9]

No we play defensive football because the coach is the club currently employs is a defensive minded manager, he always has been. Signing a centre back who can pick a nice pass is not going to change that at all. If thats what you are expecting you will be disappointed by the end of this window and going into this season.

I strongly believe that with something that looked so realistic month ago, back line valencia-toby bailly - alex sandro, we would be playing attacking football. But as i said, with smalling jones and shaw in defence you can have madrid midfield and barca attack and still you can't play attacking football.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

We don't have an incredible defense. We have a really good goalkeeper and a team that plays defensively.

Smalling, Jones, Lindelof and Rojo are not the level of quality a huge team should be relying on. Yes we have other areas that need addressing but the central part of defense is something we must get right if we want to be able to start attacking without panicking in case we get countered.

 

[stevoc]

I strongly believe that with something that looked so realistic month ago, back line valencia-toby bailly - alex sandro, we would be playing attacking football. But as i said, with smalling jones and shaw in defence you can have madrid midfield and barca attack and still you can't play attacking football.

Now Sandro would have certainly improved out ability to attack, but a centreback wouldn't in my opinion no matter who we sign. And as i said i don't think our current options at CB are the reason we play defensive minded football thats just Mouirnho's style, it always has been.

Also to be fair he might be injured a lot, lacking of motivation etc. But Shaw is the best attacking fullback we have.

 

[Kidders]

i don't argue that we could do with improving our CB's, but there are question marks over all those we've been linked to, we should be either looking for a top 5 (in the world) player, or a young 'project' for the future.

 

[andyjgt1]

i don't argue that we could do with improving our CB's, but there are question marks over all those we've been linked to, we should be either looking for a top 5 (in the world) player, or a young 'project' for the future.

No, not another 'project', not after loaning two projects Tuanzebe and (soon to be) TFM out this season as well as last, even though they deserved the same opportunities as Lindelof last season if the Swede was considered a 'project' too (I didn't consider him one because he starts for Sweden) and Axel played much better in the Swansea game he and Lindelof both started. Home-grown projects should not be sidelined for signed ones, just as Sir Alex didn't sideline Evans for Smalling.

 

[Rams]

We obviously need the type CB who can play a bit. None of our CB’s look particularly comfortabel on the ball.

 

[JB08]

De Gea made the most saves in the league.
That should tell you everything you need to know about our CB's.

He didn't. He's 5th in the rankings.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Mourinho normally wants his defenders to keep it simple, get the ball to the next «station» with a low-risk pass.

I haven't heard him say that we desperately need better ball players back there - that's a fan notion.

If he really wants a new (starting) CB, it's probably because he doesn't trust/rate the current options (enough). Or because he wants a proper leader in the heart of the defence. I don't see him targeting some kind of playmaker for the sake of...playmaking.

 

[Rams]

Mourinho normally wants his defenders to keep it simple, get the ball to the next «station» with a low-risk pass.

I haven't heard him say that we desperately need better ball players back there - that's a fan notion.

If he really wants a new (starting) CB, it's probably because he doesn't trust/rate the current options (enough). Or because he wants a proper leader in the heart of the defence. I don't see him targeting some kind of playmaker for the sake of...playmaking.

I think that’s a bit to simple to believe that Moaninho doesn’t prefer CB who can also play a bit. Most of his successful sides had a CB who could also play.

 

[Kidders]

No, not another 'project', not after loaning two projects Tuanzebe and (soon to be) TFM out this season as well as last, even though they deserved the same opportunities as Lindelof last season if the Swede was considered a 'project' too (I didn't consider him one because he starts for Sweden) and Axel played much better in the Swansea game he and Lindelof both started. Home-grown projects should not be sidelined for signed ones, just as Sir Alex didn't sideline Evans for Smalling.

Home grown, and projects are not always the same thing, my idea of a project would have been getting Rio before he left for Leeds, or Gerard Pique (who we could'nt keep happy) or even John Stones at City, Linderlof may or may not be a project but when we bought him we should really have been looking at better quality to go straight into the first team, (it was needed) 'home grown' TFM & Axel for all their potential won't make it at United, good prospects but if they were that special the likes of Palace and Villa would'nt get a sniff.

I guess the definitive of a 'project' is a player almost certain to end up in the first team.

 

[Bobski]

Going to be funny when we pay an insane fee for Alderweireld on transfer deadline day and then within 2 games he is hoofing everything long towards Fellaini/Lukaku/whoever.

Will it then be purely the full backs fault, or will the scapegoat move to another area?

 

[kthanksbye]

Strongest is pushing it a little, we've got most numbers there.

 

[breakout67]

We had three problems last season:

- erratic decision making at the back, which also lead to conceding from set pieces - meaning a commanding CB is needed
- over reliant on Pogba to transition from defense to attack - dynamic midfielder is needed
- lopsided attack, with a crowding of the left side - right sided attacker is needed

Lots of fans seem to treat it like a video game of squad building or have some sort of philosophical leaning that gives them tunnel vision on transfers.

You don't try to make a 'best XI' when building a team, you look at the situations where you are weak in a game and get players to address them. Our left side is not weak, and a Young - Sanchez left side is one of the best in the league assuming Sanchez gets back some form. We also have Martial and Rashford who are quite good on the left side.

 

[Rams]

but if they were that special the likes of Palace and Villa would'nt get a sniff.

Sure? Beckham was loaned out to Preston for example.

 

[Rams]

Going to be funny when we pay an insane fee for Alderweireld on transfer deadline day and then within 2 games he is hoofing everything long towards Fellaini/Lukaku/whoever.

Will it then be purely the full backs fault, or will the scapegoat move to another area?

To be fair Alderweireld is probably the best passing CB in the league. But we’ll see I guess.

 

[Raoul]

Its baffling.

 

[Filip#6]

To answer the question: because it would give us better balance. With a better CB and with Fred-it gives us the possibility the give Pogba more freedom to roam.

And in a defence 3- it would also bring out the best in Lindelöf and Bailly if we could play a better CB with them.

And maybe Mourinho is tired of relaying on injury prone defenders and feels it time to change the personell. No names needed i think.

And in my view the goalkeeper position is our strongest.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I think that’s a bit to simple to believe that Moaninho doesn’t prefer CB who can also play a bit. Most of his successful sides had a CB who could also play.

Define «a bit». We have several options who aren't dreadful on the ball, or good enough for what he needs from them.

I'll rephrase: The idea that our lack of fluidity/cohesion stems from lacking a ball playing (as in, adventurous, creative passer) CB is unfounded. The system doesn't require anything of the sort. And simply inserting someone who is better on the ball back there won't magically transform the way we build up our attacks.

 

[Rams]

Define «a bit». We have several options who aren't dreadful on the ball, or good enough for what he needs from them.

I'll rephrase: The idea that our lack of fluidity/cohesion stems from lacking a ball playing (as in, adventurous, creative passer) CB is unfounded. The system doesn't require anything of the sort. And simply inserting someone who is better on the ball back there won't magically transform the way we build up our attacks.

Old grumpy cheeks has always liked a player at the back. Must be a camp Latin thing. If you think he’s wasting his time, then take it out on him and leave me alone!

 

[breakout67]

Alderweireld won't transform the way we build from the back, what he will do is make us so much better at what we do.

The way we build from the back is in three ways:

1) Pass to the midfield runner who can move the ball up the pitch
2) A long pass behind the fullback for a winger/fullback to run onto
3) A long pass to the striker who can knock it down and link with other forwards

Alderweireld is almost as good as Bonucci at doing these things. It's almost like having a deep lying playmaker at the back.

Alderweireld can also step into midfield and is also good at organisation, which are bonuses.

 

[AndyJ1985]

The way we build from the back is in one way:

1) Hire a manager who knows how to coach good football

 

[All 3 United]

Looking at who we are being linked with I’d say we were in for 2 CBs and to answer your OP because Jose obviously doesn’t rate the CBs we have and personally I agree with him!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Old grumpy cheeks has always liked a player at the back. Must be a camp Latin thing. If you think he’s wasting his time, then take it out on him and leave me alone!

We-ell...no. I don't think it's a waste if the player is an actual upgrade. Upgrade is upgrade.

But if José chases a «ball player» as such, because he thinks it will dramatically improve us * - then, yeah, he's better off chasing that infamous «attacking coach» people want us to hire.

And, yes - of course I'd like a smooth bastard as part of a pairing back there. Brains and brawn, steel and silk - a classic combo is what any red blooded old grump wants to see.

* He doesn't. It's the Caf's idea, not his.

 

[Raoul]

We-ell...no. I don't think it's a waste if the player is an actual upgrade. Upgrade is upgrade.

But if José chases a «ball player» as such, because he thinks it will dramatically improve us * - then, yeah, he's better off chasing that infamous «attacking coach» people want us to hire.

And, yes - of course I'd like a smooth bastard as part of a pairing back there. Brains and brawn, steel and silk - a classic combo is what any red blooded old grump wants to see.

* He doesn't. It's the Caf's idea, not his.

None of the players we have been linked with even remotely resemble this.

 

[Mylock]

I keep seeing messages that we need this center half and that center half, but the real issue is the lack of width thoughout the team. Our full backs and players out wide cant to beat their man hench the play is so slow. Were vidic and rio any better passers than lindelof or bailly? They had paddy running down the wing and giggs, rooney tevez and ronaldo who could beat their man. We do need better center halfs but i dont think they will make that much of a difference if we don't get better players out wide.

 

[Castia]

This has been discussed to death. Defensive record is only a fragment of the equation. Playing out from the back, dealing with a high press, shepherding defense are all major issues for us. We've not had a settled back 4 for years.

You honestly think Jose would play out from the back? His defenders are specifically told to do the opposite and look for the long ball.


‘Ohhh that’s why we’re playing shit football because the defenders can’t pass’ give me a break.