Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"

[totaalvoetbal]

I think so, just like Mourinho does not coach attacking, pep does not coach defending. He likes to press the opposition and close the spaces to force the opposition to loose possession before they reach their box. Other European teams can play high high press and shield the ball and still build up decent attacks and that's where his defenders are not elite enough to be reactive yet defensively sound.

That Barcelona team was an exception with worlds best players playing in that team from defenders to midfielders to attacking players.

You say Pep doesn't coach defending then go on to say how he likes his team to defend...

'Defending' in a low block is not the only way to defend. Attacking and defending are one thing. If you are organised optimally you defend immediately you lose the ball and attack when you recover it.

Pressing teams and covering the passing lanes and constrictiing spaces is defending. Pochettino, Klopp, Guardiola and now Maurizio Sarri are now coaching in your league. What more can be done for people to understand basic concepts?

Fernandinho aside, there is a clear dip in the teams organisation. It may be complacency, fatigue fdom the world cup but their pressing and organisation has almost reverted back to Pep Guaduiola's first season where they were susceptible to counter attacks.

Gabriel Jesus has not been the same since his injury. He needs to remove the fear of getting injured from his head.

 

[totaalvoetbal]

It is baffling that they had no other options for their pivote. Fernandinho is not press resistant and is easily pressed and Gundogan is subpar playing as a #8. He should play as the #6 in big games.

Fernandinho's main strength is his ability to win second balls and his aerial duel prowess. That isn't needed against the top sides except maybe Manchester United as they all use short passes to progress play.

 

[MVBDX]

That Bayern side would've comfortably beat Zidane's Madrid in any of their 3 CL wins.

We would never know that, what we know is that they could barely get a win against Dortmund in the CL final, where BVB were the better side, and Dante should've seen red on BVB's penalty


They were really lucky to win their Pokal final as well if you had actually watched the match.

Marcelona, Ronaldo, Ramos, Modic & Kroos are of course exceptional talents but lets not hide the fact Madrid peaked in an era where Barcelona, Bayern and England's top 6 regressed massively in Europe.

Hold on a sec, where does this top 6 myth come from? There used to be a top 4, and that was really pushing it. United and to some extent Chelsea and Arsenal have regressed for sure, but then again Arsenal -bar a year or two- were almost always disqualified once they met an actual contender, on the other hand Pool and Juve are as good as ever, Bayern are more or less the same, PSG and City might not be contenders yet, but they're still better than the likes of Lyon etc. in yesteryears, but most importantly Atleti were up there with some of the most solid sides you'd ever find, they won a fecking La Liga and had Real not won against them, they'd have at least two, maybe more CLs, iirc in 4 years they didn't once disqualify against any side not named Real, they won Barca x2, Bayern etc.

 

[adexkola]

Fernandinho isn't in good form the whole calendar year though, was wank in all games vs Liverpool, was shocking for Brazil against Belgium and by all accounts was poor yesterday. Maybe he is not completely past it but he is a liability against better teams. Gundogan is slow and looks lost in games with high intensity. Apparently, they are more dependent on KDB than people thought.

Even in their wins they’ve lacked some of the decisive passing that he brought. Bernardo Silva has been much better this season, otherwise they would be in a bad position pending KDB’s arrival.

I think they will be fine, barring the game at Anfield.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

We would never know that, what we know is that they could barely get a win against Dortmund in the CL final, where BVB were the better side, and Dante should've seen red on BVB's penalty


They were really lucky to win their Pokal final as well if you had actually watched the match.

Hold on a sec, where does this top 6 myth come from? There used to be a top 4, and that was really pushing it. United and to some extent Chelsea and Arsenal have regressed for sure, but then again Arsenal -bar a year or two- were almost always disqualified once they met an actual contender, on the other hand Pool and Juve are as good as ever, Bayern are more or less the same, PSG and City might not be contenders yet, but they're still better than the likes of Lyon etc. in yesteryears, but most importantly Atleti were up there with some of the most solid sides you'd ever find, they won a fecking La Liga and had Real not won against them, they'd have at least two, maybe more CLs, iirc in 4 years they didn't once disqualify against any side not named Real, they won Barca x2, Bayern etc.

Lyon were a very good CL side, which you should know given they repeatedly knocked you guys out and were unlucky not to win a CL in their pomp imo. Better side than PSG currently is in Europe, for sure.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Sassy Colin]

Busy shooting season 5 of Peaky Blinders.

Spoiler

We're so close! We're so close!

 

[Thunderhead]

It is baffling that they had no other options for their pivote. Fernandinho is not press resistant and is easily pressed and Gundogan is subpar playing as a #8. He should play as the #6 in big games.

Fernandinho's main strength is his ability to win second balls and his aerial duel prowess. That isn't needed against the top sides except maybe Manchester United as they all use short passes to progress play.

been saying the same for ages, I believe Gundogan would be a great #6 in this team

 

[Sassy Colin]

Gundogan should only be playing if one of the Silvas are injured, or the game is beyond reach. Pending De Bruyne’s return, the midfield should be Silva - Fernandinho - Silva.

Mendy is great going forward but his discipline is a problem. I think City have better balance with Delph at LB and Sane on the wing staying wide. Provides space for both Silvas to work between the lines. If Mendy starts it destabilizes the setup of the team. Fernandinho has less support as Mendy doesn’t tuck in, and City are more prone to counters.

Unusual loss at home but they were really good at bouncing back from losses and setbacks last season. They’ll still qualify with ease.

That’s nonsense.

Wow, your banner is no joke, you really love them don't you?

 

[VJ1762]

Wow, your banner is no joke, you really love them don't you?

Maybe he likes to watch easy-on-the-eye football? There is a friend of mine, who supports United and Barcelona (idk how that works), who watches every city match diligently( after pep arrived) and said that we should have gone for pep in 2013. I was like duh, the man had the option of either managing a treble winning side or a league winning team on it's last legs. Of course he would select the former option. And he now says that he has stopped supporting the club unless Mou leaves. I didn't know what to say.

 

[adexkola]

Wow, your banner is no joke, you really love them don't you?

I watch a lot of football and football highlights. They're the current champions and always on TV, hard to avoid them.

FWIW I see a lot of games involving the other top 6 members as well.

Maybe he likes to watch easy-on-the-eye football? There is a friend of mine, who supports United and Barcelona (idk how that works), who watches every city match diligently( after pep arrived) and said that we should have gone for pep in 2013. I was like duh, the man had the option of either managing a treble winning side or a league winning team on it's last legs. Of course he would select the former option. And he now says that he has stopped supporting the club unless Mou leaves. I didn't know what to say.

Eh, bit of a simplification. But if high quality football is on I'll watch it. Doesn't matter who's playing. You learn a lot watching how different top flight clubs set up their teams on the pitch.

 

[padr81]

been saying the same for ages, I believe Gundogan would be a great #6 in this team

Disagree buddy, he won't do the hard yards defensively and despite what TF says we don't have the ball for 90 minutes, can you imagine a midfield 3 of Gundo and the 2 Silva's at Anfield, we could have 90% of the ball but it wouldn't matter when Liverpool would be attacking our cb's uncovered with 4-5 players.

The myth we don't need to fight for second balls vs top teams is just that. Liverpool are very direct, Spurs at times too. We might get away with Gundo there vs poor teams with no pace but it'd be footballing suicide against any top team. The kind of tactical arrogance and looking down on other teams that kicked us square in the arse last night imho.

 

[arthurka]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Our man..

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Proper Utd man.

 

[Thunderhead]

Disagree buddy, he won't do the hard yards defensively and despite what TF says we don't have the ball for 90 minutes, can you imagine a midfield 3 of Gundo and the 2 Silva's at Anfield, we could have 90% of the ball but it wouldn't matter when Liverpool would be attacking our cb's uncovered with 4-5 players.

The myth we don't need to fight for second balls vs top teams is just that. Liverpool are very direct, Spurs at times too. We might get away with Gundo there vs poor teams with no pace but it'd be footballing suicide against any top team. The kind of tactical arrogance and looking down on other teams that kicked us square in the arse last night imho.

I think he's intelligent enough to do that, he needs to do something as he's never going to be a consistent enough 8, but Fena needs some backup if Delph is going to play left back for any period of time

 

[M113FF]

Disagree buddy, he won't do the hard yards defensively and despite what TF says we don't have the ball for 90 minutes, can you imagine a midfield 3 of Gundo and the 2 Silva's at Anfield, we could have 90% of the ball but it wouldn't matter when Liverpool would be attacking our cb's uncovered with 4-5 players.

The myth we don't need to fight for second balls vs top teams is just that. Liverpool are very direct, Spurs at times too. We might get away with Gundo there vs poor teams with no pace but it'd be footballing suicide against any top team. The kind of tactical arrogance and looking down on other teams that kicked us square in the arse last night imho.

Liverpool are one thing but we had no prob when Gundog played with Dinho out for 4 league games and we won all 4:
3-0 at Arsenal
1-0 Chelsea
3-1 at Spurs
5-0 Swansea.

 

[padr81]

I think he's intelligent enough to do that, he needs to do something as he's never going to be a consistent enough 8, but Fena needs some backup if Delph is going to play left back for any period of time

He's got the brain and the skills, just don't think he has the heart for the dirty work tbh, you very rarely see him help out the defence, thought it was very telling, it was Silva back last night and not him. He's a talented player but I'm not sure where or how we get the best from him. Might be worth a try. Personally, I'd prefer to see us try Stones at no.6 ahead of Laporte and Otamendi. He's pretty press resistant on the ball and works harder than Gundo. It's a problem position for us though.

 

[padr81]

Liverpool are one thing but we had no prob when Gundog played with Dinho out for 4 league games and we won all 4:
3-0 at Arsenal
1-0 Chelsea
3-1 at Spurs
5-0 Swansea.

Fair point. I just don't see it with him tbh (in that role), in fact its hard to find a role that suits him in our midfield.

 

[MVBDX]

Lyon were a very good CL side, which you should know given they repeatedly knocked you guys out and were unlucky not to win a CL in their pomp imo. Better side than PSG currently is in Europe, for sure.

They were OK, not as good as current City or PSG, us being shit at the time and going out against anyone doesn't change anything.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

They were OK, not as good as current City or PSG, us being shit at the time and going out against anyone doesn't change anything.

Nah thats just wrong. What have PSG done to justify being better than that Lyon team?

 

[Zehner]

Fair point. I just don't see it with him tbh (in that role), in fact its hard to find a role that suits him in our midfield.

IMO he's actually the best fit for a Guardiola system among your CMs. The Gündogan that reached the CL final with Dortmund was the perfect Xavi replacement and incredibly pressing resistant.

Strangely, Guardiola plays comparably direct players in the CM roles for City with KDB and also the two Silvas. They are very different to Xavi and Iniesta. I'd say you'd be better and more consistent with a player like Gündogan as the distributor. But he can also play the Fernandinho role. I think the idea that a number 6 has to do the dirty work is quite old fashioned. Busquets doesn't do it at all, doesn't cover much ground and avoids tackling and yet he's the best DM of his generation.

 

[Ramshock]

Gundog

 

[tenpoless]

Busy shooting season 5 of Peaky Blinders.

Spoiler

Looks like me during my Maths exam.

 

[GeorgieBoy]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

My man!

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Their performances have been poor since the start of the season. It's clear KDB is a big big miss.

 

[lawliet354]

So City's last three CL games:
Liverpool.
Liverpool.
Lyon.

Basel should change their name to Lasel.

Basel -> Liverpool -> Liverpool -> Lyon -> N?

 

[MVBDX]

Nah thats just wrong. What have PSG done to justify being better than that Lyon team?

Same question can be asked about Lyon though, they almost always went out in last 16, had one SF appearance during like a million years, look, they weren't a bad side by any means, but beating Madrid at the time wasn't an achievement, it was the norm. PSG and City have had same-ish results as them, and, though still laughing stocks in Europe rel. to their domestic success, are gonna find their feet sooner or later, and they look more like a contender than Lyon ever was. Lyon was simply an underdog punching above its weight, a side that you knew might get a result or two, but never go all the way.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Basel -> Liverpool -> Liverpool -> Lyon -> N?

Inter Milan.

 

[Treble]

Guardiola's a brilliant coach but his style has its limitations too and he's dependent on his best players.

I've come across a stat that since the start of last season City have won all games in which KDB, Aguero and Silva started apart from Everton home when Walker was red carded already in the first half. In all other games in which City drew/lost, one of them didn't start:

Shakhtar away - no KDB and Silva, Aguero bench
Palace away - no Silva, Aguero bench
Liverpool away - no Silva
Burnley away - no Silva
Basel home CL - none of them
Liverpool away CL - no Aguero
United home - KDB and Aguero on the bench
Liverpool home CL - Aguero bench
Huddesrfield home - no Aguero
Wolves away - no KDB
Lyon home - no KDB, Aguero bench

For all their depth, they've been very dependent on 3 players which Guardiola inherited.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Same question can be asked about Lyon though, they almost always went out in last 16, had one SF appearance during like a million years, look, they weren't a bad side by any means, but beating Madrid at the time wasn't an achievement, it was the norm. PSG and City have had same-ish results as them, and, though still laughing stocks in Europe rel. to their domestic success, are gonna find their feet sooner or later, and they look more like a contender than Lyon ever was. Lyon was simply an underdog punching above its weight, a side that you knew might get a result or two, but never go all the way.

Really don't agree with that. They were dominating their league and had world class players at the time (Essien, Juninho) with a solid core of a team and squad. It's revisionism at its finest imo.

 

[MVBDX]

Really don't agree with that. They were dominating their league and had world class players at the time (Essien, Juninho) with a solid core of a team and squad. It's revisionism at its finest imo.

If Essien and Juninho -who tbf were really good- were world class, I don't know what to call Neymar, Mbappe etc., not that a team is just about the names... as that's been part of the problem with the oil teams.

Anyways, I think you've been overrating Lyon and underrating PSG and City a bit at the same time, that's mostly due to the expectations (of Lyon to do as a good underdog would do, and of the oil clubs to win the whole thing), so let's agree to disagree.

 

[kouroux]

It is baffling that they had no other options for their pivote. Fernandinho is not press resistant and is easily pressed and Gundogan is subpar playing as a #8. He should play as the #6 in big games.

Fernandinho's main strength is his ability to win second balls and his aerial duel prowess. That isn't needed against the top sides except maybe Manchester United as they all use short passes to progress play.

Instead of wasting money on Mahrez, this is something they should have adressed

 

[Arruda]

Really don't agree with that. They were dominating their league and had world class players at the time (Essien, Juninho) with a solid core of a team and squad. It's revisionism at its finest imo.

They were dominating their league but never really looked that strong in Europe. Very decent with awesome players, but french teams overall were rather weak in european terms, Lyon being the best of a bad bunch doesn't say much.

The sole reason Porto won the champions league in 2004 was because we were lucky to get 3 French teams and dispatched every single one of them with ease, unlike United or Coruña against whom we struggled a lot more.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

If Essien and Juninho -who tbf were really good- were world class, I don't know what to call Neymar, Mbappe etc., not that a team is just about the names... as that's been part of the problem with the oil teams.

Anyways, I think you've been overrating Lyon and underrating PSG and City a bit at the same time, that's mostly due to the expectations (of Lyon to do as a good underdog would do, and of the oil clubs to win the whole thing), so let's agree to disagree.

I'm mainly underrating PSG, not City. I think PSG haven't shown anything in Europe as good as Lyon had (with the semi), and actually seem to be regressing. I also think the discrepancy between Lyon and the other French teams at the time isn't as big as PSG and the others at the moment (bar Monaco's freak season), which I think is going to make it harder for PSG to progress in Europe. I just think overall PSG are an incredibly overrated project, and haven't really shown up on a consistent basis when faced with true quality.

 

[MVBDX]

I just think overall PSG are an incredibly overrated project, and haven't really shown up on a consistent basis when faced with true quality.

Neither did Lyon, they almost always went out in last 16, for one, PSG would've gone past Barca (who had got a treble the year before) if not for super one-sided refereeing.

 

[Minimalist]

Think what I seen of the other night, I have no idea why teams would stand off them. They still looked like scoring against Lyon but had an off-night. They've got attacking talent coming out of their arse, it's never going to be a problem for them to score. What was more surprising (or encouraging for other teams) is the shite defending/teamwork.

Liverpool proved this last season, fcuking attack them and you might just win. Amazingly despite the records they busted through (and it was impressive) last season - I definitely had more fear of Mourinho's Chelsea side in 2004-07 than this team.

 

[breakout67]

Think what I seen of the other night, I have no idea why teams would stand off them. They still looked like scoring against Lyon but had an off-night. They've got attacking talent coming out of their arse, it's never going to be a problem for them to score. What was more surprising (or encouraging for other teams) is the shite defending/teamwork.

Liverpool proved this last season, fcuking attack them and you might just win. Amazingly despite the records they busted through (and it was impressive) last season - I definitely had more fear of Mourinho's Chelsea side in 2004-07 than this team.

Most teams don't have the quality to attack City. First is taking the ball off the likes of Silva/Silva/Gundogan/KdB, then is to run past cnuts like Fernandinho and the army or attackers that hack at your ankles whenever they lose the ball.

He's developed the ultimate bully footballing system; takes apart inferior opposition making the team very consistent in league formats while constantly losing to teams with attacking talent.

 

[Minimalist]

Most teams don't have the quality to attack City. First is taking the ball off the likes of Silva/Silva/Gundogan/KdB, then is to run past cnuts like Fernandinho and the army or attackers that hack at your ankles whenever they lose the ball.

He's developed the ultimate bully footballing system; takes apart inferior opposition making the team very consistent in league formats while constantly losing to teams with attacking talent.

Well if Lyon can (no offence), the top six of the PL shouldn’t be cowering against them.

 

[breakout67]

Well if Lyon can (no offence), the top six of the PL shouldn’t be cowering against them.

I'm not aware that the top 6 are cowering against them though? Everyone except Chelsea has had a go at them, and Liverpool and United actually beat them.

Arsenal and Spurs didnt cower, but tried to attack and just got slaughtered. Liverpool and United have had the most success against them which is not a surprise. Both Mourinho and Klopp put emphasis on direct counter attacking which is most effective against his teams.

It can also be said that City just had an off-day against Lyon, just like against Wigan. They lost the ball a lot and were much slower in their build up.

 

[TheeAma]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date