Had Van Gaal stayed... Would he have fared any worse than this?

[buckooo1978]

its was awful under LVG and those last 6 months were as bad as now

plenty of games we conjured 1 or 2 shots on target and similar to Mourinho he squandered lots of money

I wonder what Mourinho would have done had he inherited Van Persie, Evans, Nani, Rafael, Kagawa, Zaha, Hernandez

probably not much but I'm sure he would have made some use of sone of them

either way Van Gaal was a disaster, Jose is too.... I hope our next manager is ready to take on a major project in a restructured club

 

[worldinmotion66]

I always liked van Gaal and much of what he did during his time here. I thought it was a little harsh to sack the guy after winning the FA Cup, and I think he'd have improved us with more time.

Ultimately though, we needed Mourinho to phase out Rooney and entice some big names into the club. He has served a purpose, but in outstaying his welcome he is now causing damage that may be irreversible if the board don't act soon.

The short termism if the owners is the biggest issue, and I cant see anything changing because their interest is in finance and not footballing issues. Van Gaal wouldn't have made the difference we need.

 

[Class of 63]

One thing is for sure, I don't think we'd of signed Pogba and Lukaku, so from this perspective I'm more curious about how we would of spent in the transfer market.

Pogba was already halfway in the door so he'd have signed, but LvG would probably have tried to get Timo Werner instead off Lukaku

 

[charlenefan]

Even if LVG's last season didn't make his position untenable what would have surely followed would have, people like to say we're a mid table side at the moment whereas in reality we're a top 6 side, I truly believe under LVG we'd of become a true mid table side. It's gone to shit now under Mourinho and it's as bad now as it was under LVG but let's not forget Mourinho has taken us forward (albeit we're in serious danger of undoing that now if we haven't already)

 

[simonhch]

Van Gaal had to go, but the bigger problem is there was no continuity in managerial appointments. We went from an old school British coach, emphasizing wing play, to a possession heavy, risk averse tactician, to a defensive, direct manager. Each time overhauling the squad. It's no surprise that results are terrible. The squad is terminally unstable. The most successful squads have the least turnover in terms of playing staff, and continuity of approach.

How Mourinho hasn't been sacked at this point, with all he has spent, and how bad results and performances are; is mind boggling. But I have no faith whatsoever that we will get the next appointment right, or that there is even the existence of a long term strategy, other than make money. It's only when revenues start declining that something radical, and sensible, will happen.

fecking waste of time this club at the moment.

 

[klsv]

Ah yes, this December...

...and the loss to West Ham in May to lose out on CL finishing fifth although Chelsea and Pool were below us.

 

[Garethw]

The problem was not sacking Van Gaal the problem was replacing him with Mourinho. We needed to hire a progressive, attacking manager to add verticalality to Van Gaal's possession play.

100% this.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

I was very happy when LVG was appointed - I had followed and enjoyed his legendary work at Ajax and decent spell at Barca, I was sure he would return United to the big time.

Unfortunately, he did serious damage to the squad and club's identity with his reckless transfer dealings.

The football in his second season was terrible - as time passes it's easy to forget just how fecking boring and miserable it was to watch.

I don't like how he was sacked - but it was correct to sack him. There was nothing to suggest things would improve had he stayed

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

The highs of LvG were as high as any we've experienced since Fergie, we pretty much beat every top side away from home with the Rashford winner at Etihad, the Juanfield game, Rooney and di Maria destroying Arsenal at Emirates etc but the lows were just as dismal as Moyes, especially during the December period when everyone was injured and we couldn't buy a win.

There was always a method to his madness though, you always knew what he was trying to get and we suffered a lot due to a lack of talent and his pointless deference to Rooney but otherwise I appreciate a lot of what he did with younger players. The ones having a moan were the experienced ones who did not like his schoolmaster approach.

LvG's biggest issue was recruitment, outside of Bayern & Ajax, he did not have players who were willing to come play for him. With a proper DoF, he might have worked a lot better.

 

[Judas]

Mourinho's first two seasons were still better than van Gaal's last season.



Which is moot point, since you don't know who van Gaal would have bought. There's a good chance those players would have been worse than what Mourinho has brought in.

Well no shit, the whole thread is a moot point, it’s all hypothetical.

 

[bucky]

Well no shit, the whole thread is a moot point, it’s all hypothetical.

Fair enough

 

[MoskvaRed]

His second season was dreadful. The OP mentions the win at Anfield but that was against a fading Rodgers side. When we went there the following season against Liverpool under Klopp in the Europa, it was men against boys. Also, his possession style broke down against a press (e.g. the farce against Wolfsburg after we took the lead). Teams were content to let us play 900 sideways passes in the knowledge we had no penetration.

 

[Maciej]

No, nor would we if David Moyes had stayed, but if Ryan Giggs had got the job permanently, almost certainly yes

Based on what? Just because his surname is Giggs and he had a good career as a player for us?

 

[AshRK]

We would have been worse off. As bad as Jose is now, lvg and moyes were on another level of stupidity. Time to look forward and not backwards. Jose>lvg>moyes, but that doesn't say much about Jose.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

LVG delivered a respectable result given the players he had back then. If my memory serve me right he delivered a ball possession playing style with a mix of over the top/declining players and youth. However in a big club like Man Utd fans expect attacking football, entertainment and trophies, and he couldn't deliver all 3 so he was suck just after 2 seasons.

I wonder how long Mou can survive as he obviously can't deliver either. His football is ugly. His tactic against the other big 5 in the league is to keep fouling, being aggressive to disturb the rhythm of the opposition, and try to draw or lick a goal. I thought he was hired to deliver instant success.

 

[MoskvaRed]

We would have been worse off. As bad as Jose is now, lvg and moyes were on another level of stupidity. Time to look forward and not backwards. Jose>lvg>moyes, but that doesn't say much about Jose.

Basically, this sums it up. It’s like having a Phil Jones v Prunier v Graeme Hogg debate.

 

[Sandikan]

The van gaal era was loads of aimless keep ball, loads of 0-0s at home, and almost every game at half time.
You've never seen a manager make so many full back subs either.
Yes he have rashford his chance, but it must not be forgotten it was out of pure desperation as all the other strikers were injured.

Cleared out loads of fergie's squad for buttons and brought some real dross in.

He did have that 4-5 game spell where we monstered city, pool and tottenham though

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I guess we'll never know. What I will say; however, is that it was clear what type of football Van Gaal played.

We dominated every team in terms of possession, and teams were happy to sit back and let us keep the ball, without being too much of a threat in the final third.

All of our joy, much like Mourinho's time at United, came from down the left, courtesy of Martial. When Martial had an off day or was marked out of the game, we had very few threats up top.

It was why Van Gaal specifically identified our that we needed a right winger. Van Gaal said "we play with Lingard and he is not the most speedy winger in the world and Mata is not the most speedy winger in the world".

Due to our play being slow, it meant we needed players in the final third who could quicken it up, either by doing something special on the ball or making runs off it. As I said, we had that in Martial on the left, but had nothing on the right.

I believe if Van Gaal was still here and purchased a 'speedy' right winger, we'd be playing some good stuff.

It would basically be similar to City now. Not as clinical and quick, but very much the same style.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

The van gaal era was loads of aimless keep ball, loads of 0-0s at home, and almost every game at half time.
You've never seen a manager make so many full back subs either.
Yes he have rashford his chance, but it must not be forgotten it was out of pure desperation as all the other strikers were injured.

Cleared out loads of fergie's squad for buttons and brought some real dross in.

He did have that 4-5 game spell where we monstered city, pool and tottenham though

May be he doesn't have the right players to unlock the defense for the so called lesser teams? Normally those teams park the bus against you guys in LVG's era. Not anymore under Mou.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

I guess we'll never know. What I will say; however, is that it was clear what type of football Van Gaal played.

We dominated every team in terms of possession, and teams were happy to sit back and let us keep the ball, without being too much of a threat in the final third.

All of our joy, much like Mourinho's time at United, came from down the left, courtesy of Martial. When Martial had an off day or was marked out of the game, we had very few threats up top.

It was why Van Gaal specifically identified our that we needed a right winger. Van Gaal said "we play with Lingard and he is not the most speedy winger in the world and Mata is not the most speedy winger in the world".

Due to our play being slow, it meant we needed players in the final third who could quicken it up, either by doing something special on the ball or making runs off it. As I said, we had that in Martial on the left, but had nothing on the right.

I believe if Van Gaal was still here and purchased a 'speedy' right winger, we'd be playing some good stuff.

It would basically be similar to City now. Not as clinical and quick, but very much the same style.

LVG was after Mane before he was fired.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Give him this squad he’d be doing better than Jose is currently, I’ve no doubt in my mind.

Yeah, because he did exactly that after the defeat to Leicester. We literally played decent football for about 5 and a half games under van Gaal. There was nothing to illustrate it was going to get better.

 

[shamans]

Mourinho is garbage.

Van Gaal was WORSE. Van Gaal is the reason we're here. Worse than Moyes. Hate that cnut.

 

[shamans]

I always liked van Gaal and much of what he did during his time here. I thought it was a little harsh to sack the guy after winning the FA Cup, and I think he'd have improved us with more time.

Ultimately though, we needed Mourinho to phase out Rooney and entice some big names into the club. He has served a purpose, but in outstaying his welcome he is now causing damage that may be irreversible if the board don't act soon.

The short termism if the owners is the biggest issue, and I cant see anything changing because their interest is in finance and not footballing issues. Van Gaal wouldn't have made the difference we need.

What was that purpose?? Replace Rooney with Lukaku? Get a washed up Sanchez? Buy Mikhi only to realize he's shit and sell him? Buy Fred, not to play him? What was the purpose.

 

[Rightnr]

I don't think he'd be doing worse than we are this season but we wouldn't have done as well as we did last season and we most likely wouldn't have won the Europa League under him.

This is the right answer IMO. LvG was lucky that the top teams were pretty subpar when he was in charge and he still couldn't get CL.

I want Mourinho gone badly but the only positive from LvG staying is playing young blood and giving them a chance.

As controversial as Pogba's performances have been, I also doubt he would have joined with LvG in charge. For his first 2 years, Mourinho was the right appointment but where we messed up yet again is being too slow to act when he's clearly past his expiration date as a Man Utd manager.

 

[Casanova85]

Van Gaal did crap with an stellar squad in 2014-15.

But we could actually finish 6th or 7th this season, worse than 2015-16 and closer to Moyes.

 

[Foxbatt]

No I do not think Van Gaal would be worse that this. At least we tried to play football and sometimes it worked. His problem was that his transfers were not good at all. I think with this team LVG would do a lot better.

 

[arthurka]

No he didn't. We've made our worst start in 28 years or whatever it is this season

Wasnt he on top in November in his second year?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Van Gaal did not alienate the players, throw them under the bus and create a toxic environment turning fans against players. He would have given youth a chance and if he had better signings, would have done alot better. His possession style worked better than Jose but needed attacking mavericks in which the likes of Depay, Falcao and di Maria failed to provide.

 

[FootballHQ]

I don’t think we did have any identity tbh. People say that, but what was our style? If holding onto the ball in a really slow, laboured manner whilst creating a grand total of 0 chances in 90 minutes counts as a style then it was that. But if that’s the case, why do people criticise Jose’s United for not having a style when it’s the exact same?

I agree. So many games that season I watched as a neutral and couldn't believe how few shots Man. United had, particularly in home games.

There was an FA cup home tie v Sheffield United (who were mid table league one at the time) where pretty sure Man. United had just two shots on target and one of those was the 92nd minute penalty winner by Rooney. Wasn't there a Southampton home game around that time when Man. United failed to have a shot on target for first time in ages in a league home game.

Few months later I was on a stag do in Barca. Stag was a Man. United fan and wanted to watch the cup quarter final v West Ham. It clashed with a Villa game (a few Villa fans in our party) so after a boring opening 10 minutes I went off round the back streets to try to see if any bars were showing that game. Came back just before half time, asked him if Man. United had any shots on goal and he said no.

Man. United don't actually have problems scoring goals this season. 2 at Brighton, 2 at Chelsea, 3 at home to Newcastle, 4 at the weekend etc. O.k not on top teams level but still far more prolific than LVG era. Problem this season is there is just no connection between defence, midfield and attack so you're always likely to concede goals and relying on individual brilliance in final third.

 

[FootballHQ]

Worth noting the stat halfway down this report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35211626

Man. United in 15/16 went TEN home games without scoring a first half goal.

 

[2 man midfield]

I agree. So many games that season I watched as a neutral and couldn't believe how few shots Man. United had, particularly in home games.

There was an FA cup home tie v Sheffield United (who were mid table league one at the time) where pretty sure Man. United had just two shots on target and one of those was the 92nd minute penalty winner by Rooney. Wasn't there a Southampton home game around that time when Man. United failed to have a shot on target for first time in ages in a league home game.

Few months later I was on a stag do in Barca. Stag was a Man. United fan and wanted to watch the cup quarter final v West Ham. It clashed with a Villa game (a few Villa fans in our party) so after a boring opening 10 minutes I went off round the back streets to try to see if any bars were showing that game. Came back just before half time, asked him if Man. United had any shots on goal and he said no.

Man. United don't actually have problems scoring goals this season. 2 at Brighton, 2 at Chelsea, 3 at home to Newcastle, 4 at the weekend etc. O.k not on top teams level but still far more prolific than LVG era. Problem this season is there is just no connection between defence, midfield and attack so you're always likely to concede goals and relying on individual brilliance in final third.

Yep, I remember that well since I was there. First time in 6 years I’d been able to get to Old Trafford and we lost 1-0 without a whimper.

 

[SATA]

On hindsight, i really wished Giggs had been given the chance to succeed van Gaal. Perhaps he would be better suited to build what the Dutchman had left behind. But having said that, Jose had done really well on his first season here winning a European trophy and the league cup.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Do you people not remember waiting an entire game just for a 1-0 win every single bloody week? And one shot per game or some stupid crap like that.

 

[Tomuś]

Yeah, we'd have bought more youth like Schweinsteiger, di Maria or Falcao.

They were exciting signings for the vast majority of us, if the memory serves. Just like Matic or Sanchez. Just saying.

 

[RedAlways78]

Managers need time to develop the team. That’s not done overnight. We can’t be sacking managers so quickly.

 

[scoi]

Van Gaal had his philoshophy, it was terrible to watch, but with a few key signings to match his strategy he could have improved the results.

He was unlucky to inherit a team that were lacking in the final third and signings, that in the main, performed way below their expectations, with only Herrera and Martial being decent midfield or attacking signings over his 2 years. It could have been his own fault for not getting the likes of Di Maria to play well.

I was very happy to see the back of him but never imagined this season being so terrible.

 

[Ishdalar]

I've seen this guy leave Barcelona being 3 points above relegation... at 28 of January, 20 points behind the leader.

When Van Gaal loses his north he's done for, I doubt he'd be able to correct course after his last season at United, so in any way, Mourinho is 100% an improvement.

 

[davidmichael]

Jesus, is this how bad it’s really got ? That we’re talking about whether we should have kept Van Gaal ? feck feck and double feck.

No we shouldn’t have kept Van Gaal and even though the way Ed went about it was shady as feck it was 100% the right decision, the problem was replacing Van Gaal with a younger version of himself although a far more self obsessed version.

 

[Antisocial]

When will "Had Moyes completed his 6 year plan, would we have won the league?" thread come ?

No need, we all know how that scenario would’ve gone - basically we’d have had Real Madrid’s last three years, except right now we’d be effortlessly crusing to our fourth straight Champions League

 

[Canagel]

Wasnt he on top in November in his second year?

Yeah he was. It all unraveled in December and January but he was top in November